Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

factfinder_77

(841 posts)
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:38 AM May 2016

AP Poll: Americans Don't Know What ‘Single Payer’ Means. And when they find out, they don’t like it

The AP recently asked 1,033 adults what they thought of “Medicare for All,” a cornerstone of Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign.

When asked their view of “single-payer” health care—what such a system is often called—the respondents seemed to like it. “A slim plurality of 39 percent supports replacing the private health insurance system with a single government-run, taxpayer-funded plan that would cover medical, dental, vision and long-term care, with 33 percent opposed,” the AP’s Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar and Emily Swanson write. Just 26 percent, meanwhile, support the existing Obamacare law.





But when asked whether they’d be willing to either pay higher taxes for such a plan or give up their own, employer-sponsored plans for a government-run insurance plan, they were decidedly less bullish. Thirty-nine percent said they would oppose a plan that meant either of those steps. Support thinned further as the pollsters brought up the other potential pitfalls of single-payer systems.

A Kaiser Family Foundation poll, also from Thursday, found that people feel similarly thrown by the phrase “Medicare for All.” Thirty-six percent of respondents viewed that “very positively,” but only 15 percent felt that way about “single payer.”




One of the people the AP quoted, a Chicago office manager named Elizabeth Medina, encapsulated the cognitive dissonance that single-payer health care provokes:

“Overall it sounds terrific,” she said. “Yeah! Let's go for it! But Europe and Canada have their problems with the single-payer system ... it’s subpar.”

There are two common points of confusion about single payer. The first is about the definition of “single,” which, as you might know, is “one.” And the “one” in this case almost always means “the government.” It means everyone gives up their Platinum Elite Status Cigna Extra Miles plan that they get at a steep discount from their work. Instead, they go on the same plan everyone else has. This is a key element of Sanders’s proposal, as described on his site: “Under Bernie’s plan, Americans will benefit from the freedom and security that comes with finally separating health insurance from employment.”

The thing is, half of Americans get their insurance through work, and they don't all hate it. A government plan might not be any worse, but it will require a leap into the unknown.

The AP says that higher taxes are also a “given” under single-payer, and that’s probably true, but it’s hard to tell how much people will spend on taxes versus how much they spend now on insurance premiums and surprise ER bills. And it’s worth noting that the AP didn’t bring up any of the positives typically associated with single-payer, like the potential for significant administrative cost savings.

The other point of confusion is that “Europe” has single-payer health care, and America should be more like Europe. European countries’ medical systems are all pretty different. Some of them, like the U.K., have single-payer health care. Germany has a system much like ours, except the insurers aren’t for-profit companies and it’s cheaper for the patients. Other countries have mixed public-private systems that guarantee a basic level of health care but allow the rich to buy supplemental private insurance.

It sounds like Sanders’s idea could resemble any one of these. In his description, he says, “all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card.” If everyone were covered by the same plan, it’s not clear why you’d need an insurance card. If there is a card, it’s not clear whether it would be issued by a German-style sickness fund or function more like an NHS medical card.

It’s true, however, that Europe has its own problems, some of them related to single-payer health-care systems. America’s existing medical system is no picnic either. But when they’re shown the downsides of single-payer, Americans seem to prefer the devil they know.


http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/02/people-have-no-idea-what-single-payer-means/471045/
114 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
AP Poll: Americans Don't Know What ‘Single Payer’ Means. And when they find out, they don’t like it (Original Post) factfinder_77 May 2016 OP
I'm shocked! Oh wait, no I'm not. This has always been obvious. CrowCityDem May 2016 #1
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #2
huh? CountAllVotes May 2016 #17
They have it wrong and the reason they have it wrong is they are hiding something really big. Baobab May 2016 #98
Free riders? sigh Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #30
a woman I know is 86 CountAllVotes May 2016 #71
We all pay, even if just by working at McDonalds for MW for assholes. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #74
I would much rather... Else You Are Mad May 2016 #83
Someone who agrees with you.... Armstead May 2016 #42
Jury Results, jury did the right thing. AtheistCrusader May 2016 #61
Nonsense kaleckim May 2016 #93
Goes to show you how brain-dead stupid Americans are. arcane1 May 2016 #3
Its why Sanders would have no F chance against a GOP candidate. factfinder_77 May 2016 #7
Red-baiting is what conservatives do. Dems are supposed to tell the truth. arcane1 May 2016 #11
+1 QC May 2016 #14
Skinner's wife works for Hillary's campaign. Brock would be right up against or over the line JimDandy May 2016 #82
Dude. Else You Are Mad May 2016 #85
Clinton supporters are closet Repubs just like Hillary. ThePhilosopher04 May 2016 #31
Are you admitting to being a "red" The Second Stone May 2016 #43
American capitalISM is screwing the 99% right now... Yurovsky May 2016 #62
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #79
I'm a registered Democrat and ... Yurovsky May 2016 #86
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #100
So you're against kaleckim May 2016 #95
No, not every developed nation is socialist. The Second Stone May 2016 #99
Literacy, both linguistically and politically is appreciated kaleckim May 2016 #111
That is because... Else You Are Mad May 2016 #55
They need to clean up the VA. The VA is run by the government yeoman6987 May 2016 #57
Well, if it weren't for the GOP obstructionism... Else You Are Mad May 2016 #65
And the GOP are going away? Nope. yeoman6987 May 2016 #69
Sorry, didn't know that. Else You Are Mad May 2016 #72
I didn't take it that way. You are a wonderful DUer. Always have been. yeoman6987 May 2016 #78
The repugs... Else You Are Mad May 2016 #81
No, you're wrong kaleckim May 2016 #96
What I see is responses varying based on how the questions are slanted. nt bemildred May 2016 #4
Exactly. When the questions are framed honestly, people approve n/t arcane1 May 2016 #6
Yep Recursion May 2016 #5
And when they call it Medicare, the poll changes dramatically. ViseGrip May 2016 #8
This 'longer non-emergency wait lines' and sub-par care' is such rot Blaukraut May 2016 #28
Wait 1939 May 2016 #38
Which will be nice, but we'll still have the coverage issue Blaukraut May 2016 #39
I have been on Medicare for 12 years 1939 May 2016 #84
Does factfinder_1-76 feel this way? snort May 2016 #9
Haha I actually just laughed out loud. Good job. :) nt. Else You Are Mad May 2016 #59
LOL, all of the sudden hill fans hate single payer and free college...... Logical May 2016 #10
Conservatives in liberal drag, that's all these new fools are n/t arcane1 May 2016 #12
Oh, you forgot 39 % of Sanders repubs voters that will vote Trump in GE over him. factfinder_77 May 2016 #15
And Clinton will win them over... how? By calling them commies? arcane1 May 2016 #16
Post removed Post removed May 2016 #19
LOL you just outed yourself. Fail! arcane1 May 2016 #20
9 hides in under 300 posts AgingAmerican May 2016 #23
A "record" they hope to "correct" arcane1 May 2016 #24
And I do wonder why most of them are from Sanders fanboys ? claiming to be democratic voters factfinder_77 May 2016 #34
I am a professional and a Sanders Democrat... Else You Are Mad May 2016 #70
Cognitive dissonance is fertile ground for conspiracy theories AgingAmerican May 2016 #21
So why is Hillary leading with + 3 millon votes ? And why is Sandes holding on to flawed GE polls factfinder_77 May 2016 #26
You just stated a conspiracy theory AgingAmerican May 2016 #67
I hate this free stuff bullshit, as you can read in my posts whenever it comes up. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #36
When does a realistic policy = hate. GOP want a small government. Sanders is their ulimate candidate factfinder_77 May 2016 #13
We hate Bernie's poorly thought out plans. Even if you support the ideas, they're terrible plans. CrowCityDem May 2016 #18
And Hillary's are even worse n/t arcane1 May 2016 #22
Exampls please AgingAmerican May 2016 #60
1. Raising the payroll tax on the poor. 2. Relying on Republican governors to raise taxes. CrowCityDem May 2016 #68
Lifting the cap on Social Security affects the wealthy, not the poor AgingAmerican May 2016 #75
I'm not talking the cap. I'm talking the actual rate. Bernie raises it. CrowCityDem May 2016 #87
But you just can't prove it, right? AgingAmerican May 2016 #113
Read this: CrowCityDem May 2016 #114
That game can be played with any policy question. Eric J in MN May 2016 #25
Here's the problem with their "qualifiers" Proud Public Servant May 2016 #27
So what is the next excuse ? There is always someone to blame, except Sanders policy of course factfinder_77 May 2016 #29
Where am I talking about Sanders? Proud Public Servant May 2016 #56
Regarding your second point: CrowCityDem May 2016 #33
That's easy Proud Public Servant May 2016 #47
So why does Bernie raise the payroll tax and punish them? CrowCityDem May 2016 #48
I think his plan is regressive and wrong Proud Public Servant May 2016 #50
I agree, but it's hard to have a discussion where criticizing his plan... CrowCityDem May 2016 #66
Hogwash... Human101948 May 2016 #63
Now, what if "single payer" required the random killing of small children? DefenseLawyer May 2016 #32
Spot on ! Sanders have not received any severe GOP attacks at all factfinder_77 May 2016 #37
Sorry, sport. DefenseLawyer May 2016 #40
What a bunch of stupid, ignorant, misleading questions and options to answer. pangaia May 2016 #35
I would like to see a poll that asks one question - Vinca May 2016 #41
FUD RufusTFirefly May 2016 #44
There is no such thing as a free lunch unless you happen to be wearing rose colored glasses. Trust Buster May 2016 #45
Or are rich and/or a corporation beedle May 2016 #77
People who change jobs, or people whose company health SheilaT May 2016 #46
Sometimes nothing changes, the provider just drops out of their network. TheKentuckian May 2016 #51
A provider leaving a network is SheilaT May 2016 #53
Most Americans don't understand their market based plans and when they have to pay other than TheKentuckian May 2016 #49
Bullcrap. I even know some Republican voters that want it. mmonk May 2016 #52
Anecdotal evidence is always the strongest... brooklynite May 2016 #64
Why would people need to switch doctors? subterranean May 2016 #54
Nice biased poll. northernsouthern May 2016 #58
My employer based insurance elljay May 2016 #101
Germany jman0war May 2016 #73
Germany is nothing like America CountAllVotes May 2016 #76
EU jman0war May 2016 #80
Why are families in Ireland being hit with BIG bills CountAllVotes May 2016 #104
Ireland jman0war May 2016 #106
Relatives CountAllVotes May 2016 #107
not true jman0war May 2016 #109
BS jman0war May 2016 #90
Nice to find this on a "Democratic" site kaleckim May 2016 #88
You should be ashamed of yourself kaleckim May 2016 #89
Freep! whatchamacallit May 2016 #91
so what this poll proves beyond a shadow of any doubt is ......... azurnoir May 2016 #92
Bingo kaleckim May 2016 #94
The telling thing is that some Hillary supporters PREFER to believe this whatchamacallit May 2016 #97
Yep! Gotta catapult that propaganda! nt vintx May 2016 #110
I'll go with the impartial Gallup poll rather than the slanted right-wing anti-Bernie poll. imagine2015 May 2016 #102
Push poll. Questions are worded to elicit certain responses. Cheese Sandwich May 2016 #103
Americans with good health care plans through their employers are not going to give them up. Yavin4 May 2016 #105
Poll results like this are pretty common. YouDig May 2016 #108
Argumentum ad Ignorantiam AgingAmerican May 2016 #112

Response to CrowCityDem (Reply #1)

CountAllVotes

(20,854 posts)
17. huh?
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:05 PM
May 2016

Medicare is not free. If you think it is free, well you've got a lot to learn. You get zero if you don't pay into it for five (5) years.

Free riders = Sanders voters you state.

I state that you should find another place to troll about.



Baobab

(4,667 posts)
98. They have it wrong and the reason they have it wrong is they are hiding something really big.
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:10 PM
May 2016

The really big thing they are hiding is the fact that they signed away our right to decide our own health care policy two decades ago and they have been hiding that- maintaining the current dysfunctional health care system in order to create the mistaken impression that our system is the only possible future so they could both export it, and also use the "crisis" as a means of opening up the country to very low wage foreign workers, basically throwing our doctors and nurses (and teachers and IT workers) under the bus in separate fake "crises".

Read the links in my sig for the first half of it. The second part is a little more difficult to lay out but one can find it by searching on "labour mobility" and "movement of natural persons" and phrases like that.

Please read the three papers in my sig, the situation will blow your mind.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
30. Free riders? sigh
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:16 PM
May 2016

I pay more in health insurance than most here make, in all likelihood.

So let me tell you to stuff that free rider or free stuff nonsense.

The ONLY reason we are not a single payer society is Nixon saw an opportunity for his buddies to profit off of us and the rest is history.

There is no reason, none, at all, for the words health and insurance to ever be in the same sentence.

CountAllVotes

(20,854 posts)
71. a woman I know is 86
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:45 PM
May 2016

She pays over $200+ a month for Medicare (with Part B included) and another who knows how much for a supplemental policy as she won't tell.
She's a member of the upper crust in our society (aka rich) and has many serious health problems.

She complains about having to pay $200+ a month for Medicare. I think she's damn lucky to have insurance!

>>above $107,000 up to $160,000 $243.60

I get sick and tired of these people running around saying it is free because it is not free and they cry when they have to pay! In the case of this old woman, she is hauling in a load of money of STOCK MARKET dividends, that is where the income is from as she never worked a job and is living off of her late husband's investments. She's a tightwad, this much I know. People like this sicken me.

https://www.medicare.gov/your-medicare-costs/costs-at-a-glance/costs-at-glance.html#collapse-4809

Does not appear to be free according to medicare.gov does it?



Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
74. We all pay, even if just by working at McDonalds for MW for assholes.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:47 PM
May 2016

Even if you never pay a dime in taxes, in any form, EVER, if you work at all you are paying.

Yes, I would love to have to only pay that, but in reality there should be NO cost, AT ALL, to any health care or RX.

We can do it that way, and yes we still pay, via taxes but we can do it, everybody else does.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
83. I would much rather...
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:02 PM
May 2016

Have my taxes go to pay so no one has to suffer or die because of a lack of or an inadequate health insurance than to socialize multinational corporations via tax cuts/loop holes and pay for never ending war.

I am by no means rich, but I would happily take a tax increase of if it meant it saved lives.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
61. Jury Results, jury did the right thing.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:41 PM
May 2016

Not obvious for the free riders
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1972240

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Divisive, broad-brush attack, and a right wing one at that.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 16, 2016, 11:23 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree, this poster has a habit of doing that
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Here's a fact the OP will find interesting: There's no place for this kind of insult here. We're all on one team and we're going to need each other in November and going forward.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: You know what, I'm going to be an ass and vote to hide this crappy post just because it's crappy. It's not a TOS violation, it's intellectually offensive and it should be nuked on those grounds. Have a nice day.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's not a right-wing attack, "divisive" is par for the course. But it is uncivil, and civility is a good thing.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Okay, it's childish, stupid, wrong, and kind of "Trump-ish". But there's nothing to hide here. Better to reply and debate the merits of the argument with the commenter rather than alert on it. Move along.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

kaleckim

(651 posts)
93. Nonsense
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:53 PM
May 2016

The freaking article says this:

"And it’s worth noting that the AP didn’t bring up any of the positives typically associated with single-payer, like the potential for significant administrative cost savings...But when they’re shown the downsides of single-payer, Americans seem to prefer the devil they know."

How do people like yourself miss that? The person/firm polling them gives them all the negatives of such a system, none of the positives, then asks them if they prefer the present system to that. How is the clear, bias not obvious? The sad thing is, with many posters like yourself, it is, you just hope no one else notices.

For example, they asked about taxes going up. What if they, instead, asked if they'd be okay if their taxes went up but they'd more than make up the difference through a reduction in private expenditures? Cause that would actually be ACCURATE.

What does your party stand for exactly? Insurance industry propaganda? Wall Street propaganda? No thanks.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
3. Goes to show you how brain-dead stupid Americans are.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:42 AM
May 2016

Getting a single payer system OF COURSE means your employer-based insurance goes away. How fucking stupid does one have to be to think that's a BAD thing?

Education is non-existent in this television-addicted idiocracy.

 

factfinder_77

(841 posts)
7. Its why Sanders would have no F chance against a GOP candidate.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:49 AM
May 2016

A socialist, government run single payer system will be attacked day out, day in.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
11. Red-baiting is what conservatives do. Dems are supposed to tell the truth.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:54 AM
May 2016

Yet here you are red-baiting, and supporting misleading, lying questions in polls.

For someone here to "correct the record", you're sucking at it.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
82. Skinner's wife works for Hillary's campaign. Brock would be right up against or over the line
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:00 PM
May 2016

of campaign finance laws if his PAC paid Skinner for his employees to be star members of this site.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
85. Dude.
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:06 PM
May 2016

I am a Bernie supporter and a recent member, but it is his site, he can do whatever he wants with it.

I messaged Skinner one time and he got right back to me and was very friendly. There is no need to attack him.

ETA: I reread what you wrote, sorry. But, I will leave what I wrote just to leave it out there.

 

ThePhilosopher04

(1,732 posts)
31. Clinton supporters are closet Repubs just like Hillary.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:17 PM
May 2016

They want to take America down the dark road of oligarchy and privatization. Either that or they're sheep. We are all fucked.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
43. Are you admitting to being a "red"
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:27 PM
May 2016

Some of us who actually know what socialism and communism does are actually deeply against them as economic models.

I'm against any pure economic "ism", but especially communism and socialism.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
62. American capitalISM is screwing the 99% right now...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:42 PM
May 2016

and that is what Bernie will put a stop to. Democratic Socialism is where modern, humane economies are headed.

Or we can revert back to Clinton's vision of America wherein the 1% owns EVERYTHING...

Response to Yurovsky (Reply #62)

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
86. I'm a registered Democrat and ...
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:19 PM
May 2016

I count myself among the growing progressive ranks of the party. I believe that the GOP & 3rd Way Democrats' corporate-centric Wild West capitalism is hurting Americans. There will be a reckoning within the party, and I don't think that "GOP-Lite" is a winning long term position for Democrats.

Response to Yurovsky (Reply #86)

kaleckim

(651 posts)
95. So you're against
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:09 PM
May 2016

most every other developed country, since that is basically all that Sanders is asking. Most of those countries are multi-party democracies and are led by socialist or social democratic parties.

Socialism has a broad back, and you're obviously older. Your post is evidence of decades of propaganda. the most well known market-socialist model is by someone named Oskar Lange. If you read his model, it sounds right wing in many ways. You have stuff like that all the way to Mao and left wing anarchism. You focus on the ladder and ignore the former, and the rest of the developed world. Not for logical reasons, because you're a victim of decades long, one-sided propaganda and your mind has been warped as a result.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
99. No, not every developed nation is socialist.
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:11 PM
May 2016

You have no idea what socialism is, do you? It's where the government tells people what to produce. And the word you are searching for is "later", not "ladder".

Literacy, both linguistically and politically is appreciated when trying to have an adult conversation.

kaleckim

(651 posts)
111. Literacy, both linguistically and politically is appreciated
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:18 PM
May 2016

Says the person talking nonsense. As I said, the most well known market socialist model was from Oskar Lange, and if you look into it, it sounds in some ways like free market capitalism. The socialism comes in the preference for worker cooperatives and socializing the capital goods sector. There is also a role for the state with basic services, like our country. The rest of the economy was to be governed by competition and pretty free markets. Some of the founders of modern, neo-classical economics were socialists, although their socialism was for socializing things like land rent. There were Ricardian socialists in the 19th century that supported free trade. Some socialists in the 20th century, like Abba Lerner (a friend of Milton Friedman), were pretty suspicious of government regulations. Then there are libertarian socialists that don't believe in the state what so ever. You have that, all the way to Marx theoretically. So, you might want to actually know what you're talking about before you yammer on about "adult conversations".

I also didn't say that all countries were socialist. Not showing yourself to have a high level of reading comprehension. Every western government has at one time been led by socialist and/or democratic socialist parties, all of them have socialist and/or social democratic parties which play a major role. That is a fact. In fact, in France, the Communist Party got a fifth to a quarter of the vote for decades. These governments DO have larger parts of their life run by non-market institutions and have socialized larger parts of their economy and society. I didn't say they were all socialist, but they do essentially what Sanders is offering. This is also a fact.

You're welcome to actually address anything that I've said, if you want to back up your arrogance.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
55. That is because...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:38 PM
May 2016

Modern Dems do not fight for their causes and just fold and compromise instead of fighting for what is right.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
57. They need to clean up the VA. The VA is run by the government
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:39 PM
May 2016

With a small percentage of the population and has screwed it up. Can you imagine 330 million on that type of program. I think it's a good idea but the government needs to get a handle on the program before adding everyone.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
65. Well, if it weren't for the GOP obstructionism...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:42 PM
May 2016

The VA would be run perfectly. But, let's blame it on Bernie....

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
69. And the GOP are going away? Nope.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:44 PM
May 2016

And I am for Bernie voted for him in Florida but my previous point is valid.

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
72. Sorry, didn't know that.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:46 PM
May 2016

I didn't mean to come off as an asshole, sorry! But it still holds true that Dems fold way to quickly. See, e.g., the Grand bargain!

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
78. I didn't take it that way. You are a wonderful DUer. Always have been.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:53 PM
May 2016

I am more pissed off with the murders within the VA that Repugs allowed. Arizona is quite GOP. The federal government would have to have major oversight on the program to ensure murders don't occur. With a democratic president, we will have that for sure, but those whole Repugs, they welcome murders because it saves money. I wish I were kidding.


Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
81. The repugs...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:58 PM
May 2016

Love our troops when they are fighting for oil/killing poor brown people, but once they get home, they aren't contributing to the military industrial complex so they can die and/or suffer since the lobbyists don't care about them. But, unlike medicare, the VA can at least negotiate for their RX prices.

The whole VA situation makes me sick. Anyone that served should have perfect health care for life -- I have no problem with my taxes going to pay for that.

ETA: Thank you!

kaleckim

(651 posts)
96. No, you're wrong
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:13 PM
May 2016

Read the article again. It admits that it didn't talk about, address, analyze or ask about any of the positives of a single payer system. The article admitted that no positives were mentioned, only negatives, and then asked Americans to compare that system to the present system, and even with that one sided analysis a plurality of voters still wanted to replace the current system with single payer. THAT speaks to the power of the idea.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
5. Yep
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:46 AM
May 2016

As always. People love our programs. Until they're proposed. Then they elect Republicans. We aren't just making this shit up, people.

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
8. And when they call it Medicare, the poll changes dramatically.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:50 AM
May 2016

So expect them to use the single payer language!

Blaukraut

(5,689 posts)
28. This 'longer non-emergency wait lines' and sub-par care' is such rot
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:15 PM
May 2016

This makes it sound like Europeans sit huddled in their homes, hopped up on pain medication, until they can finally have that gallbladder surgery after being on an eight month waiting list.
I grew up in Europe and that could not be further from reality. I've had 'care' both over there, and here in the US. Guess where I found it to be sub-par?

When I have to confer with my insurance company as to where I can go for treatment so I won't get a bill because the facility or doctor were out of network, and my choices are so limited because only about 1/3 of the area hospitals and physicians take our insurance, THAT is worse than waiting. When I get shuffled from one doctor to the next, because my PCPs keep going for greener pastures - i.e. getting the hell out of the clinics that take low reimbursement insurance, THAT is sub-par.

FWIW - we have TRICARE Prime, being retired military. Only a step above medicaid and medicare.

On edit: meant to reply to OP

1939

(1,683 posts)
38. Wait
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:21 PM
May 2016

until you turn 65 and go on Medicare backed by Tricare For Life. The only thing you pay for is Medicare Part B and small co-pays on medication.

Blaukraut

(5,689 posts)
39. Which will be nice, but we'll still have the coverage issue
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:23 PM
May 2016

Until every hospital and physician has to take every insurance, those of us with Tricare, Medicare, and Medicaid will receive sub-par treatment and be given the runaround.

1939

(1,683 posts)
84. I have been on Medicare for 12 years
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:03 PM
May 2016

I have run into one doctor in all that time who didn't take Medicare. They don't even have a choice on Tricare For Life. Medicare just tosses the bill over the fence to Tricare who picks up all the deductibles and co-pays on the Medicare payment and sends the doc a separate check. The doc doesn't even have to file with Tricare.

Only thing missing is dental and vision.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
10. LOL, all of the sudden hill fans hate single payer and free college......
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:52 AM
May 2016

What a bunch of BS! Hillary is NOT progressive!

 

factfinder_77

(841 posts)
15. Oh, you forgot 39 % of Sanders repubs voters that will vote Trump in GE over him.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:59 AM
May 2016
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/bernie-sanders-no-trump-vote-223063

We're going to have to reach out to voters to keep them from voting for Trump," Jeff Weaver said in an interview with CNN, after it was pointed out that an exit poll of West Virginia Democrats voting for Sanders showed that 43 percent would support Trump against Clinton, while 27 percent would vote for the former secretary of state and 28 percent said neither.

Response to arcane1 (Reply #16)

Else You Are Mad

(3,040 posts)
70. I am a professional and a Sanders Democrat...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:45 PM
May 2016

That has voted and been a registered Democrat since I was 18.

 

factfinder_77

(841 posts)
26. So why is Hillary leading with + 3 millon votes ? And why is Sandes holding on to flawed GE polls
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:14 PM
May 2016

because of conspiracy theories ?

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
36. I hate this free stuff bullshit, as you can read in my posts whenever it comes up.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:20 PM
May 2016

I am fully on board with Bernie's ideas, all of them.

Having said that, nobody should have to "win" you over to vote against drumpf having access to this


http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/


 

factfinder_77

(841 posts)
13. When does a realistic policy = hate. GOP want a small government. Sanders is their ulimate candidate
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:55 AM
May 2016
 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
18. We hate Bernie's poorly thought out plans. Even if you support the ideas, they're terrible plans.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:06 PM
May 2016
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
75. Lifting the cap on Social Security affects the wealthy, not the poor
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:48 PM
May 2016

His plans are paid for with federal taxes.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
114. Read this:
Tue May 17, 2016, 08:31 AM
May 2016
http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/04/pf/taxes/bernie-sanders-taxes/

Here's the relevant parts:

The payroll tax burden for employers and for high-income households would go up notably.

To help bolster Social Security funding, Sanders would apply the 6.2% payroll tax to income over $250,000. Currently it only applies to the first $118,500 in wages.

In addition, he'd finance a paid family leave program by requiring all employees and their employers to pay an additional 0.2% payroll tax on the first $118,500 in wages.

Lastly, he's proposing a new 6.2% payroll tax that employers would pay on all of an employees' wages to help fund Medicare for All.


Tax rates would go up across the board because Sanders would impose a 2.2% premium tax on all taxpayers to help pay for his Medicare for All plan.


Still want to say he's not raising taxes on the working poor and the middle class?

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
25. That game can be played with any policy question.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:12 PM
May 2016

Pollsters can show more support for the death penalty by saying, "Would you support it more if you knew murdererers sometimes escape prison"?

And they can show less support for the death penalty by saying, "Would you support it less if you knew innocent people are sometimes executed?"

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
27. Here's the problem with their "qualifiers"
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:14 PM
May 2016

1) Some people have to switch doctors - that happens NOW, whenever your employer decides to change up your insurance package, or whenever you doctor decides s/he's no longer interested in being part of the network. I've experienced both recently.

2) Your own taxes would increase - that's a half-truth. A more honest poll would ask: "how would you feel knowing that your own taxes would increase, but you premiums would drop dramatically AND the overall price of health care would drop dramatically?" (both of which are certainly true). Ask that and then get back to me about how people feel.

3) People needed to give up other coverage - More deck-stacking in the form of bad phrasing. Phrase this as "you would have a choice between your employers insurance and the cheaper government option; you can only choose one, but the choice is yours," and then get back to me about how people feel.

4) Longer wait times for non-emergency medical services - Longer than what? I have fantastic private insurance and still have to wait weeks to get medical appointments. Quantify and explain, or the question is just scare-mongering.

5) It took longer for new drugs and treatments to become available - see #4.

Seriously, there's nothing to learn here except that polling obscures more than it reveals.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
56. Where am I talking about Sanders?
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:39 PM
May 2016

Single-payer healthcare, as an idea and an ideal of the Democratic Party, has been around for my entire lifetime -- and I was born during the Kennedy administration.

Reading is fundamental.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
33. Regarding your second point:
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:18 PM
May 2016

What happens, under Bernie's plan, to the millions of Americans who are either on Medicaid, or have plans they don't contribute to?

They will see large tax increases, while possibly not saving a dime in premiums and other costs. Do those millions of poor people on Medicaid have to subsidize the rest of us? That hardly seems fair, or 'progressive'.

Proud Public Servant

(2,097 posts)
47. That's easy
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:30 PM
May 2016

We raise taxes on some brackets but not others all the time; hell, it's something Hillary is vowing to do right now. Given that people poor enough to qualify for Medicaid contribute less that 2% of the government's income tax revenue, additional taxes from them would be largely unnecessary and leaving their taxes alone should be simple.

 

CrowCityDem

(2,348 posts)
66. I agree, but it's hard to have a discussion where criticizing his plan...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:43 PM
May 2016

isn't equated with criticizing single-payer. If we were to tone down the rhetoric a bit, I'm sure we would say that quite a few Hillary supporters are perfectly fine with the idea of single-payer, but merely think that 1) it won't pass, and 2) there's a better plan than what he has proposed.

Often, it gets boiled down to 'Bernie's plan is the only one', and 'anything less liberal is Republican!'.

 

Human101948

(3,457 posts)
63. Hogwash...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:42 PM
May 2016

The bottom line is that we are being propagandized to cling to a health care system that is twice as expensive as that of any other developed country and less effective in the results it provides. (And that is especially true for lower income people.)

US Spends More on Health Care Than Other High-Income Nations But Has Lower Life Expectancy, Worse Health

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2015/oct/us-spends-more-on-health-care-than-other-nations


The Costs of Inequality: More Money Equals Better Health Care and Longer Life

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-02-23/the-costs-of-inequality-more-money-equals-better-health-care-and-longer-life

 

DefenseLawyer

(11,101 posts)
32. Now, what if "single payer" required the random killing of small children?
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:17 PM
May 2016

The level of support goes to ZERO! And there you have it. Capitalist America will not be duped by your pie in the sky commie rhetoric.

Vinca

(50,168 posts)
41. I would like to see a poll that asks one question -
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:23 PM
May 2016

should we or should we not eliminate Medicare? Finding anyone on Medicare who isn't glad they have it is as scarce as a truthful statement coming out of Trump's mouth. Re the qualifiers like "if your taxes are increased" - how about "would you rather pay $1,000 more in taxes or continue paying $12,000 in insurance premiums?" And why is it assumed anyone would have to switch doctors? If we had single-payer and everyone was automatically in it, a doctor would go bankrupt real fast for not taking patients enrolled. "Longer wait times for non-emergency medical services." People who can't imagine such a situation are self-centered and would demand an elective procedure before a life-saving procedure for someone else. That illustrates the very worst characteristic of many Americans - me, me, me, me, me.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
44. FUD
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:27 PM
May 2016


Be vewwy quiet, or Americans may find out that they're being screwed over by a rigged and greedy system.
 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
77. Or are rich and/or a corporation
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:53 PM
May 2016

or have a gig giving 1 hour speechs to them.

No one is claiming that single payer is a 'free lunch', except Republicans and Hillary supporters.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
46. People who change jobs, or people whose company health
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:29 PM
May 2016

care plan changes, usually wind up having to change doctors. Under a true single payer system that simply wouldn't happen, so the suggestion that they'd be changing doctors is bullshit.

TheKentuckian

(24,934 posts)
51. Sometimes nothing changes, the provider just drops out of their network.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:35 PM
May 2016

What is the cure for having to switch doctors on that note, bring back slavery?

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
53. A provider leaving a network is
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:38 PM
May 2016

quite different from a single payer system, where all doctors would be included.

Oh, there might be a small number who will go it alone, who will set up a boutique practice that people pay out of pocket for, but that will be a tiny percent of all doctors.

And in any case, people frequently need to change doctors under the current system. There would be much less of that under a single payer.

TheKentuckian

(24,934 posts)
49. Most Americans don't understand their market based plans and when they have to pay other than
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:33 PM
May 2016

premiums and small copays lose their ever living minds.

The main people that swear by what we have are fortunate enough to have very little usage above copays for trips to the doctor and haven't a clue what actual care costs.

subterranean

(3,427 posts)
54. Why would people need to switch doctors?
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:38 PM
May 2016

In a single payer system, virtually all doctors participate in the system, so you are free to choose any doctor you want, unlike our private insurance model with its limited networks.

Also, I don't get why it would take longer for new drugs and treatments to become available in a single payer system.

Of course, many people's taxes would go up, but they would no longer have to pay insurance premiums.

It almost make you wonder whether this poll was deliberately designed to mislead! But pollsters would never do anything like that, would they?

 

northernsouthern

(1,511 posts)
58. Nice biased poll.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:41 PM
May 2016

Love how they have poorly worded questions to skew the responses. Oh no my employer based insurance would be gone! WTF would that matter? You will have actual insurance that covers your issues. Lines are longer? Why? Oh because more people can afford? Is it based on facts? Oh just they are assuming it? New drugs take longer? Oh wait we can afford them? Oh wait the older ones get purchased and knocked up in price by people that are not looking to ever release a new one anyways? This is the type of deceitful poll that we will see more of when the insurance companies get more worried. It also has big pharma written all over it. But congrats on the find it is good to see the propaganda the attack dogs use.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
101. My employer based insurance
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:33 PM
May 2016

costs more each year, so my company has decided to keep the costs to employees down by decreasing the benefits and increasing the copays and deductibles. I'm now at the point at which I will not go to the doctor unless I really need to because as long as I stay relatively healthy for the entire year, I will come nowhere near my deductible. I'd give that up in a heartbeat!

 

jman0war

(35 posts)
73. Germany
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:47 PM
May 2016

Interesting that the article mentioned Germany.
Afer all, there are dozens upon dozens of countries that have Universal Health Care in one from or another.

It's because Germany is somewhat similar to USA, in that it's mandatory to have your own health insurance.
Though there are huge differences as those health insurers are strictly non-profits.

Pretty good wikipedia article on Germany's healh care.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

By far most people go with the public option opposed to private health insurance.


For persons who have opted out of the public health insurance system to get private health insurance, it can prove difficult to subsequently go back to the public system, since this is only possible under certain circumstances, for example if they are not yet 55 years of age and their income drops below the level required for private selection. Since private health insurance is usually more expensive than public health insurance, the higher premiums must then be paid out of a lower income. During the last twenty years private health insurance became more and more expensive and less efficient compared with the public insurance


CountAllVotes

(20,854 posts)
76. Germany is nothing like America
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:52 PM
May 2016

You got your Angela Merkel running the show over there and as for health care, it isn't free there either despite what you may have been told.

The EU et al. is now begnning to charge health care premiums to all members of the EU and it isn't cheap either. Let me know when you wake up and smell the coffee.


 

jman0war

(35 posts)
80. EU
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:56 PM
May 2016

Well being that I lived in 2 EU countries for the last 12 years and used the health care, i DO know what i'm talking about.

What they have generally speaking: IS A BETTER SYSTEM.

CountAllVotes

(20,854 posts)
104. Why are families in Ireland being hit with BIG bills
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:44 PM
May 2016

and I'm talking 2500 EU for healthcare? They are members of the EU.

This is due to Merkel's austerity.

EU's austerity = welfare for the rich!

Maybe you aren't aware of this very recent development. No more free health care and low cost anything for anyone. People being left unattended on cots or receiving no care at all. Great system the EU is.

Sickens me.



 

jman0war

(35 posts)
106. Ireland
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:59 PM
May 2016

People in Ireland could be hit with a medical bill only if they choose to go Private.

Everyone can choose to have medical procedure done using the public system, for free.
If you don't want to wait, you can chose to pay for it yourself, privately.

BTW, subsribers to private health insurance in Ireland has been shrinking massively since 2007.
The few private insurers still operating have hiked premiums majorly since the recession.


Perhaps you could cite your sources?

However i would not cite Ireland as a particularly good example of a Health Care system.
They bought into the "private competition is good" argument back in the 90's but it has been a disaster for Ireland since.
And now they don't know how to put the genie back in the bottle.


edit:
I have authority on this since Ireland happens to be 1 of the EU countries i've lived in.
I've had 2 surgeries on the public system there and numerous doctor visits.
Double hernia surgery for a token fee of $150 for the overnight?
I'll take that over the $30,000k they want in USA any day!

CountAllVotes

(20,854 posts)
107. Relatives
Mon May 16, 2016, 05:02 PM
May 2016

Is that good enough for you?

Throw in charging for everything but the kitchen sink, yep, the EU is just grand. What? You don't like paying for water even though you have a well?

Ireland would have been better off on their own but the likes of a bunch of fat cats from the continent have ruined it grabbing all they can get. FUCK THEM.


 

jman0war

(35 posts)
109. not true
Mon May 16, 2016, 05:15 PM
May 2016

You are not citing facts.


The EU cannot "charge" for medical procedures, they only provide a set of rules between countries.
That is all.

Insofar as your anti-EU rant, it's very revealing.
You really think companies want to setup in a little country like Ireland (pop 4 mil) due to their great market share?

It's EU membership (market of 400 million people) that attracts ANYBODY to do business there.
Without the EU Ireland would be totally impoverished.
At least the actual irish people understand that, and that's why they vote YES in national referenda on each treaty.

But no, your "Relatives" are totally misleading you.
And i suspect, they don't even acutally exist.

 

jman0war

(35 posts)
90. BS
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:40 PM
May 2016

Insofar as your statement:

The EU et al. is now begnning to charge health care premiums to all members of the EU and it isn't cheap either

100% BS.
The EU does not operate some sort of EU-wide health insurance plan and impose premiums and costs.
Period.


Since as long as I can remember, which is probably since the very inception of the EU, a citizen of one member state, can receive free treatment from any of the other EU states.
As long as you present your EHIC card.
--------------
If you need medical treatment while you are in another EU country

, presenting your EHIC can simplify payment and reimbursement procedures.

With the European Health Insurance Card you can get healthcare - and claim reimbursement for the costs you incur - on the same terms as nationals of the country you are in. If the treatment you need is free for local residents, you won't have to pay. If the treatment requires payment, you can either ask for reimbursement from the national institution whilst still in the country and get reimbursement directly there, or ask for reimbursement from your health insurer when you get home. Your expenses will be reimbursed according to the rules and rates of the country where the treatment was received. So you will be reimbursed either for the full cost of the treatment, or you will have to bear the patient's fee according to the rules of the country where the treatment took place. Alternatively, your insurer may decide to reimburse the full cost according to its own rules.
-----------
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/health/unplanned-healthcare/payments-reimbursements/index_en.htm

so that means that going to a doctor and getting a prescription carries a 20$ out of pocket fee, say in France.
Then that is what you would pay if you were a British citizen in France.

And where there is a fee, like maybe an overnight hospital fee of $100, then you can claim that back from your own country.
Which is what i've heard most people do.




kaleckim

(651 posts)
88. Nice to find this on a "Democratic" site
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:38 PM
May 2016

"And it’s worth noting that the AP didn’t bring up any of the positives typically associated with single-payer, like the potential for significant administrative cost savings...But when they’re shown the downsides of single-payer, Americans seem to prefer the devil they know."

How is this not telling? What rational person would chose a system if the person "polling" them tells them all the negatives and none of the positives? This is good propaganda for people whose brains no longer work.

On the other hand, many Democrats are working in Colorado to undermine the push for single payer, and many of them have connections to the industry.

So, when they ask those questions, do they ask people questions like:

You will pay less overall (yes, your taxes will go up a little, but your reduction in private spending will more than make up the difference), do you agree with that?

You will not go into bankruptcy and will not have to worry about health care if you lose your job or want to start a business. Is this okay?

You will pay into a system with far less waste? Is that okay?

You will not see your fell Americans die because they didn't see a doctor early enough to save their lives? Is that cool with you?

Do people not see the problem with the way the issue is framed in articles like that?

kaleckim

(651 posts)
89. You should be ashamed of yourself
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:39 PM
May 2016

for coming her and pushing this one sided propaganda. See my other comment if you want to see why I say that. I have to conclude that you are connected to the insurance industry, cause this propaganda is too obvious.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
92. so what this poll proves beyond a shadow of any doubt is .........
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:41 PM
May 2016

if you misrepresent and over generalize enough you too can get the poll results you need

kaleckim

(651 posts)
94. Bingo
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:56 PM
May 2016

the freaking article admits that it only focused on the negative stuff and didn't ask about or balance the negatives with the positives. This is propaganda any progressive Democrat should call this out for what it is.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
103. Push poll. Questions are worded to elicit certain responses.
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:43 PM
May 2016

Like who would want a system that requires longer wait times? Nobody. Hardly anybody would answer yes to that.

Yavin4

(35,354 posts)
105. Americans with good health care plans through their employers are not going to give them up.
Mon May 16, 2016, 04:54 PM
May 2016

There are millions of Americans who have good health care plans through their jobs (a lot of them are from collectively bargaining agreements).

This is where the opposition to Single Payer is coming from.

YouDig

(2,280 posts)
108. Poll results like this are pretty common.
Mon May 16, 2016, 05:05 PM
May 2016

Most Americans don't know many specifics about policy areas. How things poll depend on how they are described. If you say healthcare for everyone, it polls well. If you say healthcare for everyone with big tax hikes, not so much. If you say healthcare for everyone, big tax hikes, but no more premiums, it gets better again. If you also add on that you can't keep you're current coverage, it goes down again. And so on.

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»AP Poll: Americans Don't ...