There is a much biggger picture than just Bernie vs HRC supporters

[nadinbrzezinski]

it might become clearer to all of you someday.

Suffice it to say, that yes dedazos have a consequence. One of those consequences is that those elected by those tactics, whether perceived or real, lead to a lack of legitimacy. When you have some people thinking this, whatever, But when you have strong minorities then you have other problems.

As far as the party base is concerned this year it is starting to look like a good swath does not believe the election is legitimate. That will lead to people staying home. Which incidentally is a consequence of this. Do not blame the voter, for party fuck ups. Also do not blame the voters for the ugliness that is emerging from different states and caucuses. They are the ones creating this impression that this election is compromised.

I grew up in a country where we voted, just to remain in practice. You know, someday it might matter. I am seeing that attitude far more spread in the uS anymore You can manage the illusion for only so long, and yes, the nominating convention for both parties has potential... and not precisely of being a snoozer, PR show managed by the party bosses.

This photo should send chills down your back...

?w=700

It sure sends chills mine. I suspect it's a preview of coming attractions.



And I had far more to say today, but am afraid I really should keep those thoughts away from here at this point.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

1. This is Du, if you are trashing Hillary you are allowed to say anything you want.

Because of Bernie or busters Drumpf is going to steal the election.

I just wish I knew a way to throw it into their faces after it happens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. As I said, I had far more to say about the bigger picture

someday even you MIGHT get it.

Partisans, hard core, are usually the last ones to get the memo

[Jackie Wilson Said]

6. I got it before you were a gleam if you know what I mean...The irony of this

is amazing.

You cant imagine what it is you are doing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. What pointing out to reality is not doing a thing

that is what I usually do.

As I said, I have kept most of it OUT OF HERE... but it has already been published

[Jackie Wilson Said]

11. This is how liberals should greet or point out Bernie or Busters or the handful of Hillary or buster

Of course in this case the mindless person will be the one being pointed at, not doing the pointing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. You will keep missing it

your tactics and sneer is actually a symptom of what is going on.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

16. My tactic is solely to stop drumpf from power. If you arent doing that, you are very very wrong

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Alas you have no idea what I am or am not doing

and by the way, I told once, I will tell you again, the vote is secret, I believe in a secret ballot and I do not take loyalty oaths, that is extremely fascist, like in Trump fascist. ok. Or Henry Wallace to keep with the 1968 theme.

[zappaman]

106. Someday you will get it

[Jackie Wilson Said]

122. Anyone who thinks Hillary and Drumpf are remotely similar, is a very confused

person.

Although the truth is on some social issues they are, Drumpf wont be allowed to act that way or his racist, homophobic base wont reelect him

Wont matter, he is gonna end all life anyway

[bkkyosemite]

128. And you will do it no matter what cheating has gone on with this side.

[Jezebel Jackson]

56. That is so perfect.

That is the version of the many adaptations of that story that actually scares me. But even the most mindless pod people don't scare me as much as political extremists.

[pmorlan1]

14. LOL

I doubt it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Alas the article has run

[7wo7rees]

38. Dear Nadinb, do not engage with those who have only been

at DU for a few months.

Your voice and perspective is far more respectable.

Peace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. I know, I know there are times that they are just cute

and the bat signal went out.

[Katashi_itto]

84. Maybe If you dealing with someone other than a

[Enthusiast]

89. Huge +1!

[frylock]

102. Looks like the graduating class of May 2016 is out in the field.

All Hail to 'ol Brock U.

[Actor]

124. You really arent qualified to discuss media matters, let alone criticize it.

True progressives know the tremendous service Media Matters has provided to the nation.

But like so many others, Boxer, etal, you throw them under the bus instantly.

[Katashi_itto]

129. .

[frylock]

134. I'm perfectly qualified to call out that Brockaganda organ.

Media Matters is now a laughing stock. Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) has always been far superior anyway.

[Enthusiast]

88. Huge +1!

[bahrbearian]

9. Trumps wins only After Hillary steals the Primary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Plus none is trashing HRC, in that OP

well except in the imagination of well people who will be the last to get that memo. Perhaps by November they will get it. A day or two after the election.

[Jezebel Jackson]

58. We all get it.

We all know exactly what you're trying to imply and its reprehensible but typical of the tone of this primary season. But will you say it bluntly or just keep dancing around it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. That is what you believe... ok

[Jezebel Jackson]

65. You knew pretty quick what was implying about your implications ...

So clearly you were implying what I implied you were implying. It horrifies me that folks would sink that low but, again, it's so typical of this campaign season.

[frylock]

101. ..

[zappaman]

107. Someday you will get it

[Sejon]

26. If Hillary isn't willing to earn their vote, that's on her

[politicaljunkie41910]

77. If kissing their behinds and adopting a platform that is Bernie's and not hers is earning their vote

than count her out. Bernie's supporters have a million reasons to not vote for her, and they change every day. Bernie needs to understand, that the WINNER gets to set the AGENDA, not the LOSER. That would seem to me to be the fair outcome in most situations. Hillary has already tried to make some concessions to appeal to the Sanders supporters, but they just call her a liar everyday and talk about how much they can't stomach the idea of ever voting for her.

The Clinton's legend of all their evil wrongdoings is now larger than the Legend of Big Foot and the JFK assassination, according to Bernie's Supporters. Enough is enough. At some point you make it impossible for the Party to recover from its self-inflicted wounds. But than, that seems what many had in mind in the first place. This won't be the first time the Democratic Party couldn't seem to resist the urge to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Why start now?

[Sejon]

78. What concessions has she made?

And it's true, she has a credibility problem. There hasn't even been an acknowledgement or apology for this whole dirty and dishonest campaign.

[CobaltBlue]

30. Jackie Wilson Said—You should not worry…

If the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination goes to Hillary Clinton, you should have all the confidence she will win election to become the nation’s 45th president.

However, if she does not win, and you want to blame someone, look to the following sources:

• Hillary Clinton
• The Hillary Clinton Campaign
• The collusion of corporate news media to get the nomination for Hillary Clinton
• The Democratic Party At Large which did all they could to get the nomination to Hillary Clinton

—AND—

• Every individual primaries voter who voted the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination to Hillary Clinton.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

42. There it is, blame the black folks.

[CobaltBlue]

45. Jackie Wilson Said—I did not write that.

[snort]

70. Ugh. It's ignore time for that one.

[Katashi_itto]

82. -15 Penalty. Yet another non sequitur from poster.

[arikara]

92. Whaaat?

That comment makes no sense at all.

[frylock]

104. Are you coming out soon?

The suspense is killing me!

[creeksneakers2]

79. Also blame the Bernie supporters

who come up with a conspiracy theory every time they lose and refuse to vote in November because of the nonsense they believe.

[CobaltBlue]

80. creeksneakers2—Not at all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. You keep telling then you do not need them

So what is it?

Anyhow, this is far bigger than this election.

[creeksneakers2]

121. I'm not the one saying we don't need them.

The numbers have turned very close because Republicans came home but the Sanders supporters are still holding out. They could easily make the difference and let Trump win.

What is bigger than the election? The election is really big.

[nadinbrzezinski]

123. Here is a huge news flash

poli sci 101 by the way.

You want those voters to come out and vote. give them a positive message, in other words, what are they voting for. Voting against, or fear, ain't gonna work. Also negative campaigns depress turn out and this one will be negative.

And yes, plenty of HRC supporters have claerly stated, we don't need them. For the record, you need them... in battleground states. Out of battleground states it really does not matter who a few thousand voters vote for.

And further for the record, worry about TRUMP DEMOCRATS... or independents. I predict many a conservadem will vote for Trump, in places like Florida. Did I mention that is a battle ground state and that is how they have voted previously in the past?

[creeksneakers2]

126. Hillary has reached out

She opposes the Keystone pipeline and TPP now and supports the minimum wage increase among others. Its pointless though because every time she tries the Sanders supporters just say she is lying.

The Clinton supporters who dismiss the Sanders supporters are reacting to Sanders supporters who are trying to manipulate. I've seen a couple even request an ass kissing.

Fear should work. Fear is very real here. On the first day alone of Trump 20 million people will lose their health insurance. Anybody who cares wouldn't stand by and just let that happen.

I know we need Sanders voters. I keep trying to convince anyone I encounter to change their mind.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. You guys keep the negative messaging

and for me, I could care less what you do

I made my choice and I won't tell you, and I also know this is far bigger than this fracking election... but I am just telling you, if you go negative, voters will just ignore whatever.

I cover this shit, about to post the deadlines for California, (polly wants a cracker, in this case just posting the news release, as is), but I know from years that this particular election has dynamics not seeing a few generations. Oh and me, I just to remain in practice. Elections in this country are no longer to be trusted. And that is an issue that someday deep partisans will understand. I believe in the election faery the same way I believe in unicorns. They are just myths.

[zappaman]

108. Someday you will get it

[Shandris]

3. bah, where were you when I wanted to make a Shadowrun comment yesterday. No fair. =(

Yeah, nothing like watching the paid Blue Army reminding you of your place, slave. """""The Rules""""" must not be broken.

It's funny. The hardest bubble I had to crack on my exit from the onion-like bubble we hilariously call 'reality' was that order was a good by definition, and that is a damn hard one to crack. But once you realize order is just a synonym for slavery, it all comes together. Then one has to look into important things like...what words actually mean. Like 'Government'. Or 'Religion'.

Anywho, yeah. Many will learn in time, most likely. Hopefully it will be in a nice, safe, peaceful way...but I'm not holding my breath.

Never, EVER cut a deal with a dragon. Even when they're running for office. ESPECIALLY when they're running for office.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. I was watchign Civil War at the theater

and going, my god this is the worst movie in the series. Poor, poor story telling. And the trigger was really really bad. Not even my old gaming crew would buy it. Good special effects though

Oh and never ever feed a dragon, agreed

[frylock]

105. Damn. Supposed to go see that with a group of friends next week.

To be fair, I don't exactly go to watch those for their plot lines.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Then you will be fine

I dabble in fiction from time to time, so I default to that.

[bemildred]

4. I have been thinking that if someone were conspiring to divide the Democratic Party,

using say astroturf and such, they seem to be doing a heckuva good job so far.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. I think this is truly a civil war

[bemildred]

17. Oh I do too, but I wonder at their enthusiasm, they must be fools and ideologues,

to join in in this sort of buffoonery, it will not improve their results either one.

And I would not put it past conservatives of various stripes to join in and "help" either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Well the Ds are now a conservative right wing party

so it fits.

[bemildred]

20. Ouch. nt

[Scuba]

7. K&R

[senz]

21. Good point, nadin.

I had to look up the term dedazos.

From 1929 to 1982, the PRI won every presidential election by well over 70 percent of the vote—margins that were usually obtained by massive electoral fraud. Toward the end of his term, the incumbent president in consultation with party leaders, selected the PRI's candidate in the next election in a procedure known as "the tap of the finger" (Spanish: el dedazo). In essence, given the PRI's overwhelming dominance, the president chose his successor. The PRI's dominance was near-absolute at all other levels as well. It held an overwhelming majority in the Chamber of Deputies, as well as every seat in the Senate and every state governorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_Revolutionary_Party

I do believe the Party establishment chose Hillary years ago. I still don't think Obama particularly likes her. I think he's wary of her, stemming partly from her 2008 ugliness and partly from her clumsy, disastrous rebellions during his presidency (email server, foreign policy blunders).

I also believe the larger establishment (because "party" is most certainly NOT what this is all about) wants Hillary as well, which should be evident to anyone who has viewed her donor list and observed the MSM during this election year.

The establishment absolutely does not want Bernie, because he is here to take on the establishment. There are so many pieces to this, but for one tiny sample, consider Bill Clinton's 1996 Telecom Bill which allowed for even greater concentration and control of the media in the hands of a few humongous corporate monopolies. The heads of those corporations are unimaginably rich and powerful -- and grateful to the Clintons. Bernie, of course, wants to break up the media monopoly so the American people can once again have exposure to a variety of information and opinion. Of course they want to smash him.

So, yes, what Nevada experienced last night was the establishment -- the oligarchy -- exerting control over a political process that threatened to get out of hand, that is, to elect someone the establishment does not want. All the Party minions tore off the mask, and Nevadans got to see the state Democratic Party chair and a U.S. Senator scolding the part of the electorate that did not automatically accept their chosen candidate.

Dedazos.

I smell revolution in the air. I hope it's the peaceful political revolution that the people's candidate has been advocating for the past year. My little old lady self is just a tad intimidated to see it happening, but thank God we have some young, strong, genuine heroes -- smart ones, too -- on our side.

God speed.

[Uncle Joe]

22. Good post, senz.

[senz]

24. Thanks, Uncle Joe

Looks like it's beginning, doesn't it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. To this day they try

here, from La Jornada,



Mexico has a brilliant future, almost as brilliant as a star (on the flag)

This is the view of her. There are more... I post this as a sign of that

And this one needs no translation

[senz]

28. The first one is frightening. I hope it means

they can see through her as clearly as some of us can. I'm glad they're paying attention. Is it suggesting that the U.S. under Hill would want to absorb Mexico, sort of like a 51st state? That must give them the creeps.

The second one is so true -- here, there, and everywhere.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. The first one to be fair, is a common theme in Mexico for decades

but that , with Trump, has brought them back with a fierceness not seen in years.

[arikara]

93. This post deserves its own thread.

Dedazos.

Revolution is long overdue and they will be some sorry sob's if they don't let it progress peacefully.

[Babel_17]

25. Good thread, kick (nt)

[silvershadow]

27. This lies squarely at the feet of the candidate who

didn't have the grace and dignity to drop out when it became clear she was deeply flawed- when the wheels fell of the bus months ago. Her numbers are falling, while Bernie's are rising.

[JoePhilly]

29. Attacking a popular CA dem is a BRILLIANT strategy right before the CA primary.

The fact that some conspiracy nuts scream and holler does not mean anyone has to take them seriously.

btw ... the police came to the front only after some of the Bernie supporters became threatening.

And a caucus isn't actually a democratic voting event.

Hillary won. Sanders supporters thought they could steal a few delegates, and they failed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Someday you will get it

[JoePhilly]

34. She said from on high.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. History has a way of teaching people nasty lessons

granted, they tend not to stick. History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme

[JoePhilly]

39. I can't wait.

[zappaman]

110. Someday you will get it

[JoePhilly]

119. I get it now.

[NCTraveler]

31. The parties base consists of minorities and women.

"As far as the party base is concerned this year it is starting to look like a good swath does not believe the election is legitimate."

Your attempt to describe a group consisting in large part of independents as the base is simply wildly inaccurate. It makes zero sense.

We have serious voting issues in this country. It's embarrassing how many Sanders supporters are constantly making faulty arguments. Some Sanders supporters dishonest about Arizona and that Clinton had something to do with it were laughable at best.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Someday you will get it

[NCTraveler]

40. That is reflective of the entitlement mentality we have been discussing.

Well done.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Yup. you are correct, it is, but not exactly the way you want it

more like machine politics,

[NCTraveler]

44. No. You hit it out of the park. Went something like this.

"Someday you will get it" Nadinbrzezinski

As I said, well done.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. And I mean it, someday you will understand what is happening

I mean that. I do not think you are right now. And since you will get angry and I will get exasperated, I am not going to engage you at that level. I know somebody you will get it. It will be well after this election, it might take a couple cycles.

[NCTraveler]

54. I'm not even close to angry. That's clear projection on your part.

Your dismissal is necessary after the way you defined the base in your op. It's that simple. You define the base of the party as a group consisting in large as independents.

Angry? Lol I couldn't be further from it. Project much?

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. I said that YOU WILL not that YOU ARE

that is not projection, that is the truth. And I will not engage you with the bigger picture. Nor am I posting the bigger picture here on DU, for good reason.

[NCTraveler]

62. "I said that YOU WILL not that YOU ARE"

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. To you as well

I have hope that you will get it though. In due time, you will.

[NCTraveler]

74. Please see post 60.

Then refer to post 40.

[JoePhilly]

36. Apparently ...

... the OP has looked down from her lofty perch and found you unworthy.

Me too.

[zappaman]

111. Someday you will get it

[YouDig]

43. The big picture is Hillary vs Trump. Bernie is out of the picture.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Again, someday you might get it

[YouDig]

67. No need to be insulting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Actually it is not insulting to hope that someday you will get the much bigger picture

insulting would be to tell you that you will never do. That is your choice.

[YouDig]

71. Yes it is. No need for that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I hope someday you do

have a good one

[zappaman]

112. Someday you will get it

[arikara]

97. Another one

whose comments don't make sense. I"m noticing a trend with posters who joined last month and rack up post counts.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. They are looking for a fight and getting me to laugh

[SidDithers]

46. Wut?...

Sid

[zappaman]

113. Someday you will get it

[CorkySt.Clair]

48. ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Bat signal went out

Cute, adorable

[zappaman]

114. Someday you will get it

[Metric System]

52. The police were there because Sanders supporters were throwing chairs and behaving horribly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. You might get it someday

This is far bigger than what you are trying...

[mooseprime]

57. When the proper response to having your democracy stolen

should be to genuflect and bow your head.

[Trust Buster]

59. We get it today. Our candidate won. Your candidate registered as a Democrat to piggy back on

the efforts of others. He decieved college students by promising that he would take trillions out of some American's pockets and place those trillions in their pockets. He did so knowing his proposals would have never passed Congress. It was a cheap Black Friday-esque pandering. He failed. Voters saw through his deception. That's what we "get" today.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. In your case, I do not expect it to get it ever,

it has none to do with the candidates actually, but nice try.

As I said, I don't expect you to ever get it...

[Trust Buster]

66. You delude yourself into thinking that Hillary supporters give a tinkers damn about what you

think we get and don't get. Get over yourself. We don't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. Here is the rub, I don't care

what you think. See the beauty in that?

[zappaman]

115. Someday you will get it

[EndElectoral]

75. Brown shirts? or 68 Chicago convention?

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Something is in the air

and there is going to be an echo of 68 am afraid

[Whimsey]

83. So is Bernie going to pay for all of you to travel to Philly?

Is that why he is continuing? To fund a political uprising. Hope he saves enough money to pay your bail. If not, at least you'll have the top 1% paying for your living expenses.

[B Calm]

85. One big mistake of Hillary supporters is thinking Bernie supporters as unemployed lazy bums.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. Oh that is very ahem conservative of them

reminds me of Occupy...

And I am not a partisan, who I vote for is my business, They assume since I can read social trends.

[Whimsey]

91. Touchy aren't you?

How did my impost imply that? I happen to know a lot of Bernie supporters, none of whom is a non-working bum. But they are a little delusional.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. Too far to the east and north of my beat... but I do report on this shit

so nope... We were thinking the other possible fun, since I would have a place to crash, but justifying the party flavors might be a problem.

[senz]

120. Yes. SOMETHING IN THE AIR

And you know that it's right.

The time is now upon us.

[dreamnightwind]

81. K & R

[Enthusiast]

90. Kicked and recommended!

[auntpurl]

94. I have to say, the tone of condescension you use

in nearly every one of your posts is extremely off-putting. Perhaps it's just not being able to discern tone correctly on the internet, but the regular comments of "maybe you'll know better some day" and "I predicted this all along" like we are children and you've got the real inside scoop are just very annoying.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Here to help you

There is this feature the admins created for these situations. It is called ignore. I recommend you use it,.



It will be a safe space from moi!!!

[zappaman]

116. Someday you will get it

[MoonRiver]

95. Those who stay home will pay the price if tRump becomes president.

Maybe they can suck on that pop sickle for the next 4 years.

[zappaman]

117. Someday you will get it

[MoonRiver]

132. I already do get it.

[tex-wyo-dem]

133. Based on your post, you don't nt

[senz]

125. Well then if it comes to that

we can suck on that popsicle together.

Pick your poison.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. Yep. K&R

[YoungDemCA]

130. 90% of black voters voting D in every election doesn't equal the party base?

I guess the fact that they overwhelmingly supported Hillary doesn't matter.

Anyway, any liberal who doesn't vote for the Democratic nominee is one less vote that Trump and his racist goon supporters need to worry about. The Republican Party thanks you for helping them out!

[nadinbrzezinski]

131. Someday you will get it

and it has very little to do with the actual election...

I trust that someday you will get it.