2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI have lost all faith in this country's ability to conduct elections fairly.
Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)
This primary season has opened my eyes.
First Iowa. Then Nevada. Then Arizona. Then the debacle in New York. And now the decertification of Maryland's results. There are too many states with too many types of voting "irregularities" to not see the larger picture, which is that election fraud is rampant in this country. Flipped voting-machine totals. Missing votes. Uncounted provisional ballots. Not enough polling places. Thousands of voters dropped from the voting rolls. Thousands of eligible voters told they couldn't vote. The list of infractions and flagrant violations of election laws is out of control. What it all boils down to is this, when the list of problems reaches a certain tipping point, you start to question the validity of not just one state's results, but the supposed winner of this whole process.
Is Hillary really winning this primary season? I have no faith anymore that she really is.
Edit: What I'm seeing in Nevada today saddens me, but no longer surprises me.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)brooklynite
(94,852 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)with astute observations. What is your evidence?
brooklynite
(94,852 posts)point to any formal challenge of any electoral outcome.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)brooklynite
(94,852 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)to suit the masters.
Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)watch her on YOUTUBE and see just how flawed is her character and integrity...
Chezboo
(230 posts)No one will touch it, even those who have lost elections due to fraud. -Richard Charnin
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)we so like to do with other countries.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)I think most of the mischief occurs in those moments right before they submit their results. I'd also like to know the names and candidate preferences of all the people doing the counting.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Then...scha'Bang
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Democrats in Arizona causing long lines and the voters who were eligible to vote were met with long lines and probably some did not get to vote that day, shameful.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)But whatever. Keep your head in the sand and hopefully we won't wake up to a President Trump while questioning what happened with all the purged Democrats.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)I suspect that there was rampant cheating in nearly every state.
If that's the case, then think about how really weak a candidate that she is. She had to cheat to win, and most likely she is not winning.
How in the hell is she going to win against Trump??? More cheating? Knowing her, that's probably her plan.
She is a disgrace--all the way around--for so many reasons.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)And she was the first to bring suit....Sanders joined later...
And many of her voters got the shaft in New York...
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)I am sure you tune will change in the general election, just like Debbie and several other HRC pawns have now called for Arizona to fix their mistakes long after the primary has passed safely for them. Our party is pathetic anymore, we openly embrace people not voting...way to go!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Because of those who was not registered as Democrats wanted to vote and tied up the process.
northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)Hint: you are blaming the people not allowed to vote in a process they paid for with their taxes. For all the insults about wanting free stuff, this is an example where they actually are doing it.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)msongs
(67,465 posts)elleng
(131,262 posts)and my loss of 'faith' occurred some years ago, way before the states and incidents you mentioned.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)BootinUp
(47,207 posts)suggestions.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I really have no faith in the election. Too many "mistakes". And the exit polls are way off...Clinton outperformed them by huge margins in over 20 states, which is a statistical impossibility.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)Whatever the outcome of this election will always have an asterisk next to it.
Just like 2000 and 2004 but this time it's happening during the primaries.
As Jimmy Carter called it with the Oprah interview last year, it's an Oligarchy.
Didn't some researchers at Princeton or something statistically proved that the electorate no longer count?
But I really thought it was the Repukes. Never thought it was in my own party.
Maybe Brock never left the Republican party, he's just helping the Clintons meld the Dems into the Corporatist fold.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Response to jillan (Reply #9)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)check their registration and vote before June 7th. If they do it before May 23rd, they can ensure that they are correctly registered.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)What a Sad State of Affairs that is
elleng
(131,262 posts)Or maybe we're just now learning about and facing facts, people are people.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)It's in that mad rush to get vote totals, that's where most of the fraud is occurring. Vote totals get flipped, submitted, and certified in a matter of hours. Then if and when there's an audit, election officials go "looks like we goofed, oopsie!", but they never order a recount. The fraud is preserved.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)You must have missed Bush/Gore.
You must have missed countless voter roll purges in states like Florida , Alabama, Kentucky, the Supreme Court cutting into the voting rights act.
Longer lines, fewer voting machines in poor/ black /people of color neighborhoods....
reddread
(6,896 posts)It is valid, but there is a slight difference, right?
Demsrule86
(68,735 posts)Well, I lost faith in 2000 and 2004...and of course their plan was foiled in 2012...hence the meltdown by Rove. There are always errors in elections...but no one cared enough about Bernie to do anything to him...he simply lost.
.99center
(1,237 posts)It's nothing to her, she doesn't care.
Response to .99center (Reply #24)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)It's an illusion of democracy until we get the corporate money out of politics, and until we get fully verifiable elections, plus end the massive disenfranchisement.
It's pretty weird to see all of these problems in the Democratic primary, but when you look at the forces lined up behind Hillary compared to those behind Bernie, it isn't surprising.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)Taking delegate counts 30 minuets before everyone is seated, a chair allowing motions to carry when the voices for nay were louder, it's sick.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)We've seen this before.
otherwise known as a railroad.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)I doubt very much she could beat Bernie in a fair election.
And furthermore, why don't independents get to vote in so many of the primaries? Why should they have no say whatsoever in choosing the only two viable choices for the presidency? What kind of democracy is that? There should be a Constitutional amendment against closed primaries and against the use of electronic voting machines that have no useful oversight against fraud.
Response to Time for change (Reply #23)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Yep.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Not sure why Dems blow the problem off, as it hurst ust the most in general elections.
randome
(34,845 posts)There will always BE problems. The best we can do is to minimize them.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
colsohlibgal
(5,275 posts)It is mind boggling that there has not been an uprising for change.....but we cannot reach a critical mass of people who can force a real look at all this.
Ah the dumbing down is in full bloom here, more people fret over the Kardashians than our crooked election system.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Bernie is losing.
The rules were known going in.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)If and when Hillary can summon a rally with more than 10,000 people, maybe I'll think about changing my mind.
For now, I maintain that the numbers in the democratic primaries this year are mostly false.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)summerschild
(725 posts)There's no logical way to reconcile the huge numbers who attend and support Bernie at his rallies and the discrepancies in the numbers voting for Hillary.
We have all watched the media ignore crowds and events for Bernie - I think we've all come to expect that.
But now there's a ton of recent articles reporting fake twitter followers and we know the money David Brock has poured into fake and purchased social media opposition. I think Hillary has really hurt herself with her alliance with him. I know she had to feel like she had no one to stick up for her and I guess he did (read his book Blinded by the Right) but that didn't change him into a nice guy. He's a snake from the same family as Karl Rove.
I'm so disappointed in Democrats if they are engaged in voter fraud!
reformist2
(9,841 posts)It's just the touch of a button, really. Or simply fudging the numbers when you submit the results. Only takes a second. And nobody checks. And even when they do audit, the results are already certified and nothing changes. Oopsie! We goofed, they say. We'll be more accurate next time.
Response to JoePhilly (Reply #41)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)huge rallies, all of her support must be "stolen" is probably the dumbest thing out of this entire primary season.
Hillary won NY in the counties were Sanders' ever so huge rallies took place but according his believers, her support isn't real because she is not holding massive rallies. Even when shown how massive other people's rallies were who went on to lose and lose BIG these people still scream about all of the yard signs and rallies and how that means that Sanders is winning.
Barney Frank's "dining room table" comment sure comes into play at at time like this.
Chezboo
(230 posts)The claim that Hillary is winning the popular vote is one of the most deceptive, specious claims the Hillary Clinton campaign and her surrogates are making. The mainstream media is echoing and giving a total pass on this egregiously dishonest claim.
This is very important for several reasons.
1- Superdelegates are arguing that they are, by supporting Hillary, representing the majority of voters. The truth is that this not true.
2- The mainstream media repeat the "Hillary is winning the popular vote" mantra, or allow Hillary and her surrogates to make the specious claim many many times every day.
Actually, the claim is an affront to the truth, based on the numbers.
More:
Debunking Hillary's Specious Winning the Popular Vote Claim
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Hillary-and-Her-Surrogates-by-Rob-Kall-Hillary-Clinton_Popular-Vote_Surrogates-160511-219.html
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)we have to worry about intra-party tampering. Very depressing.
Nyan
(1,192 posts)to teach them a lesson about democracy.
Response to reformist2 (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's Democratic Primary election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Democratic Party members confidence in the DNC as an impartial guardian of our Primary Elections.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)a sham!
WhaTHellsgoingonhere
(5,252 posts)There's sooooo much wrong with the process
1. Half the Democrats DON'T want everyone to vote; the media supports that half. They've been asking for Bernie to concede for months.
2. Closed vs Open primaries with disaffected or new voters registering as non-affiliated and not realizing they're excluded from the process.
3. Caucuses are absurd and severely restrict turnout.
4. Poor Hillary is running out of money she needs for the GE and that's Bernie's fault, not the idiotic system the Democratic Party put in place. Democrats would be wise to kick Iowa, NH, and tradition to the curb in 2020 or 2024, and hold the primary elections on a single day, just like the GE.
Good on Bernie for blowing this fucker up!
Great thread, reformist