2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders is no better than Hillary
Many in this forum have called Hillary Clinton a neocon, a moderate Republican, a Wall Street shill, have complained that she talks too much, is too loud, "cackles," and have signed on to virtually every attack on her by the right wing. But, it's easy to attack, and if we want to look at the candidate negatively, it's not difficult to create as unflattering a portrait of Bernie as has been done of Hillary.
Sanders pretends to be a big supporter of civil rights, women's rights, and gay rights, but he's nothing but a liberal vote. He's never accomplished anything for those groups in all his years in Congress. That's why he boasts so much about DOMA. Meanwhile, his DOMA vote accomplished nothing, perhaps because he simply cast the vote without making one public statement against it. There's a reason that most of the leaders in civil rights, women's rights, and gay rights don't support him.
Sanders views on foreign policy are the same kinds of views of the socialist international that embarrassed itself prior to WWII with its pacifism. If Sanders has his way ISIS and Assad will commit genocide unabated.
Sanders views on international trade are fundamentally bigoted. The poor underdeveloped countries have been demanding manufacturing jobs in exchange for access to their markets. Sanders wants to deny their people work, and has no plan for how he will then get access to their markets.
Sanders views on climate change are based more on religion than science. Scientists argue that fracking and nuclear power are low-carbon transitional energy technologies that we should use until we more fully develop renewable energy. Sanders basically wants to reduce all sorts of energy sources, which will ensure skyrocketing energy prices that will especially hurt the poor.
Sanders seems to think he is a religious leader, and I think he embarrassed himself with that stunt at the Vatican where he had to beg for a few seconds with the Pope. There's something disturbing about him going to the Vatican.
Sanders views on guns is right wing. He supports giving gun manufacturers special liability protection, unlike most other kinds of manufacturers.
Sanders campaign is in some ways racist. Like Trump, his campaign has been consistently geared towards white states and towards the kinds of people who have the time and freedom to attend caucuses, and he and his campaign have done their best to marginalize the truly diverse states. His campaign themes are largely that economic justice fixes everything, but that basically means that people of color remain further down that white people. A $15 minimum wage is great, but it does nothing for the rampant unemployment and discrimination against PoC.
Sanders is not particularly honest. He pretends he was a big supporter of gay marriage, yet he never spoke up about DOMA, never publicly endorsed Bill Clinton's many initiatives on gay rights, and did not support gay marriage until the Vermont legislature approved it. He pretends he is so against the Iraq War, yet he voted for regime change in 1999 and war appropriations in 2001. He claims he's so concerned about civil rights, yet he's spent the last half century living in a state that is less than 1% black and which played virtually no role in the great American civil and human rights battles of the last half century. Further, like Trump, he insists on keeping most of his tax records secret.
Sanders tax plan is rooted in a different era, an era when people had pensions and families lived together. Now, more and more people have 401Ks and like or not depend on the Wall Street. Sanders plan would hurt anyone who has a 401K.
Sanders is an old style ideologue, sort of a Ted Cruz of the left. No wonder Sanders has admitted to admiring Castro. Sanders sees the issues in simplistic ideological black and white thinking. A principle part of his campaign strategy are large rallies, just like Trump has, which promote groupthink and intimidation. FDR and JFK were never ideologues. They were far more pragmatic.
Sure, Sanders has some good ideas, and he's certainly better than any Republican.
But, Hillary supporters aren't fooled by Sanders. There's a reason he's losing. There's a reason that the single most consistently liberal constituency in the Democratic Party -- people of color -- support Hillary. They see the truth about Sanders.
StayFrosty
(237 posts)Someone told the damn truth
Response to StayFrosty (Reply #1)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)nt
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)That is the feeling I get from your OP.
Was there any smear you left out?
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)He won several Caucuses! In a row!
Just look at his trajectory!
Benghazi!!
Bernie farts rainbows!!
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The possibility of retaining those pension planning by many. The hate thrown at Wall Street is overboard. In other words "Leave our damn 401k alone".
B Calm
(28,762 posts)in the market.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Post with the thinking to take companies and divide their profits among everyone else, see where your investment will be after this move, not stronger.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Predatory Capitalism has been going unchecked.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)To your investments after this. I don't play his game, he praises Cuba because they have health insurance for their citizens but how much does he like their governing. I like my investments, I like my 401k, I like capitalism, I like to work to provide for myself.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Similar taxes already exist in more than 30 countries, including the United Kingdom, South Korea, South Africa, India, Hong Kong and Brazil. Encouraged by their experience, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and seven other European countries are moving forward with plans to adopt a coordinated speculation tax.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)for sure. Even Romney paid a higher rate and he gave a much larger percentage to charity.
Regulation would bring stability...Bernie's plan would bring depression and send the banking system to China most likely. His ideas are completely wrong.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)proves the markets were more stable than what we see today.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)The devil made him do it!
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...while he has made mistakes in the past policy wise, he gets it right the majority of the time. Hillary generally has had to retract her positions 10-15 years later.
That trend is dangerous for someone wanting to be in the White House where they won't have to bear responsibility for those decisions.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Voting for regime change in Iraq (1999), war appropriations for Afghanistan and Iraq (2001), special liability protection for gun manufacturers, legislation to protect the anti-immigrant vigilante Minutemen, legislation to prevent Obama from moving Guantanamo detainees into US prisons, the 1994 Crime Bill, bans keeping immigrants out of the country who overstayed their visas,
Voting against: Amber alert, outlawing digitized child porn, the 2007 immigration bill, Brady bill (5x).
StayFrosty
(237 posts)But Senator Sanders sure does love the 1 trillion F 35 Jet Fighter
Considered by many to be one of the biggest bondoggles in Pentagon history
He welcomed a GE plant to Burlington when he was mayor and that plant manufactured gatling guns
He decries defense corporations in his speeches
But when they come to his backyard the senator welcomes them with open arms
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)LexVegas
(6,121 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)But the margin keeps getting smaller.
I'm still furious that the two candidates we were stuck with are both older than my retired parents. This is absurd.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)Nice.
Maybe you're too young and naive to understand how irrlevant it is?
blondie58
(2,570 posts)Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 08:05 AM - Edit history (1)
In DU or in my Case, extremely Dislike.
dchill
(38,603 posts)a long and often angry piece of writing that usually accuses someone of something or complains about something.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)and you know he's made plenty like voting to fund the troops, why didn't he apologize for that
cali
(114,904 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)And you call Bernie racist.
Go....... yeah, that
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)... Bernie silent on Honduras at the time. Bernie choosing to represent a constituency that is less than 1% black. Both sides can easily make the same sort of accusations.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)apnu
(8,759 posts)Thanks for reminding me that I'm not alone in this opinion. The world is not black and white. Hillary and Bernie are not binary choices. There are a lot of people around here who need to figure that out. I hope this gets rhem thinking.
I hope you put you armored pants on, the Bernie people are going to throw you under the bus.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)I'll give you the first part.
Way to destroy your own candidate!
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)Jeb donors now so she is no better than the Bushes..........
merrily
(45,251 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)It's nothing but Clinton talking points. No facts. No truth. No research.
It's all just opinion. And, 99% is based on nothing but guesses.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)nt
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Thanks for the post!
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)Look at how dishonest Hillary is! Shame on her!
http://www.pnhp.org/sites/default/files/Nick%20Skala%20GAT%20and%20Health%20Reform.pdf
http://www.citizen.org/documents/PresidentialWTOreport.pdf
http://www.maine.gov/legis/opla/ctpchlthcaresub.pdf
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)My Good Babushka
(2,710 posts)that is why I think he's the lesser of two evils.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)These lectures get longer and longer. They also get less coherent.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)The details wouldn't be as flattering. I'm not sure how many of his most vocal supporters know the votes he has taken that have no resemblance to the vision of 'progressivism' he promotes. Much like Obama was eight years ago, Bernie is only as liberal as you want to make him.
QC
(26,371 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)An excellent summary of failed attacks against Sanders, all of which have been debunked multiple times.
Sorry you had to go through the effort to compile them in one OP.
Is this Clinton's new slogan; "No Worse than Sanders?"
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)But apparently a lot of people don't hang out there.
Sivart
(325 posts)Ted Cruz wishes.
And Hillary and her supporters wish, too.