Hillary Clinton attacks her church over Israel divestment vote

[kgnu_fan]

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/hillary-clinton-attacks-her-church-over-israel-divestment-vote

As the United Methodist Church prepares to vote on divestment from companies that profit from Israel’s military occupation in Palestine, Hillary Clinton has penned a letter condemning the Palestinian-led boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement.

The Democratic presidential frontrunner and lifelong Methodist was responding to a joint letter from two leaders of major Israel lobby organizations – David Sherman, chairperson of the Israel Action Network, and Susan Stern, vice-chair of the Jewish Federations of North America – urging her to “speak out forcefully against the divisive and destructive BDS movement” ahead of the Methodist vote.

“Your voice is very much needed this week,” they wrote.

The vote is set to take place during the quadrennial United Methodist Church General Conference, which begins today in Portland, Oregon.

The church delegates will be voting on four proposals to divest from three companies that profit from Israel’s occupation: Caterpillar, Motorola and HP.

[Chasstev365]

1. Until tomorrow; when she says she's always been for Israeli disinvestment

[arcane1]

2. For Hillary, Caterpillar, Motorola and HP are more important than Palestinian lives.

Maybe she's just running for president of the wrong country.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Sounds like she bowed to pressure.

>>>The Democratic presidential frontrunner and lifelong Methodist was responding to a joint letter from two leaders of major Israel lobby organizations – David Sherman, chairperson of the Israel Action Network, and Susan Stern, vice-chair of the Jewish Federations of North America – urging her to “speak out forcefully against the divisive and destructive BDS movement” ahead of the Methodist vote. >>>

Again.

Gosh. What a shock.

[silvershadow]

4. Oh dear. She will lash out at anyone it seems. nt

[unc70]

5. She is opposed to Methodist positions on many things

Start with wars and death penalty.

Add in "welfare reform". And lots more.

She talks about her faith a lot, but it is more conservative than mainstream United Methodist positions.

[MisterP]

7. it's more of a Family affair

[kgnu_fan]

80. Her action speaks clearer than her talk

[Tarc]

6. Not a surprise as, unlike Sanders, Clinton is a strong supporters of Israel

[oasis]

8. Always has been, always will be. and ImWIThHer.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Ah, that's bullshit. Sanders is a very strong supporter of Israel.

Unlike Hillary, though, he's coming at it from someone who has actually lived and worked there--- and not as someone who wants to woo the "Megachurch Moms" who think Israel is crucial to the rapture and Jesus's return.

[Tarc]

46. "...omeone who has actually lived and worked there"

Lol, he spent about 2 months in a kibbutz, volunteering for an Israeli Marxist youth camp.

Hillary's support has nothing to do with "rapture" or that other gibberish, it has to to with being an ally to a nation that has been at war since its inception.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Are you Jewish? I am.

Also if you knew diddly about the actual history of Israel you would understand the philosophical underpinnings of the kibbutz movement.

I love it when non-Jews decide to start lecturing about this stuff.

As for your last sentence, I might have believed that until Hillary began her great pivot towards wooing "megachurch moms". Now All bets are off.

[Tarc]

65. I know he took an extended vacation, and you spin it as "he lived there"

[Warren DeMontague]

66. So okay, no- you're not Jewish.

I suspect I am more familiar with Israel than you are, bub.

And yeah, working on a kibbutz for a few months qualifies as living there. You want to talk about disingenuously misrepresenting the facts, you are the one who suggested Sanders doesn't support Israel. That's a flat-out fucking bald faced lie.

[Tarc]

67. Sanders sides with the Palestinian rock-throwers rather than the IDF

Abstaining from a resolution expressing support for Israel and condemning Hamas says all we need to about his non-support of Israelis.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. Baloney.

That doesnt mean he doesnt support Israel any more than Hillary's IWR vote means she supports the neocon agenda.

Except the IWR vote actually had consequences, as opposed to being a purely symbolic measure.

[JI7]

70. Feinstein is also on the list with Sanders, these things aren't black/white as you think, Sanders

DOES support israel and his position is actually the same as hillary's.

[Tarc]

71. Well you kinda can't have it both ways here

Many...perhaps most...Sanders campers applaud him for not toeing the usual pro-Israel line, and want him to condemn Israel for their treatment of Palestinians, foe being "occupiers", yada yada.

[JI7]

73. that doesn't change the fact that he still supports Israel and BDS is anti semitic which he agrees

with.

clinton supports a 2 state solution also.

[still_one]

26. yup, and I support her on that

[Warren DeMontague]

60. It is flat-out disingenuous to accuse Sanders of "not supporting Israel"

[Jitter65]

9. I'm not with her on this one. The church should be able to divest from whatever it wants to.

Isn't money speech? Don't we have religious freedom and free speech? It's the church's money and investment and a Christian principle they are upholding. What Israel is doing to the Palestinians under their occupation is plain evil.

[Warren DeMontague]

11. Yeah, and she has the 1st Amendment right to disagree with them.

[ericson00]

10. Hillary stands with America, not the fringe

more campaign donations, from me. Anti-Israel sentiment is morally unacceptable and un-American.

[Ash_F]

14. We are supposed to pick a side now?

Not a very good poll.

[JonLeibowitz]

31. What. The. Fuck. Did. I. Just. Read.

Are you serious?

"Israel are winners, the Palestinians, quite frankly, losers, at this point for sure."

Not to mention that that sounds like something Trump would say.

[Redwoods Red]

56. That person is very special.

[lancer78]

37. Those under 29 y/o numbers

do not look quite so good. Hopefully more Americans realize that Israel does not require our support since they are a Nuclear armed country.

Do you consider opposing the bulldozing of Palestinian homes to make way for Jewish settlements "morally unacceptable"?

I see it as a final solution for the Palestinian problem.

[leftynyc]

38. That poll doesn't show support

in the way you are talking about. They specifically asked which side you were more sympathetic to. So having nukes is not on the table with that question. It DOES show that the vast majority of Americans understand the reality that Israeli's live with every single day and sympathize more with the victims of terror than the side that glorifies terrorism (and don't even begin to try and deny that the elected terrorist hamas does not glorify terrorism). It's really that simple.

And frankly, comparing bulldozing a house with the actual "final solution" - mass genocide - is ridiculous and unbelievably repulsive.

[ericson00]

43. if you wanna compare knocking down terrorists' families homes, which the Brits also did in

Mandatory Palestine, to gas chambers and ovens, you might as well be a Holocaust denier.

Holocaust deniers have no place anywhere in this world, ever.

The younger crowd always has a lot of radical ideas. Ask the 1960s with all the Marxist profs that roamed schools then.

[runaway hero]

62. what a joke

i thought this was a democratic site?

[ericson00]

63. The data shows that a majority of Democrats

(or in some polls a plurality) stand with Israel. Read and fucking weep.

[runaway hero]

64. And swearing too

Come on. You're not even a liberal. Who do you really represent other then the white, male majority? Palestinians are POC too, you now.

[shira]

68. Most liberals side with Israel & Israelis aren't white. Most are POC from the mideast. n/t

[runaway hero]

72. I don't have a problem with that

It's his smearing of Liberals that gets me.

[shira]

75. Leftists for BDS aren't liberals. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

12. I agree with her on this one, because BDS is not working for a 2 state solution.

BDS is actively anti-Israel. One can be against the occupation and for a 2 state solution without being anti-Israel.

[Ash_F]

16. Boycotts were used in South Africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Apartheid_Movement

Looks like pretty standard peaceful organization. Way better than bombs.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. And yet, we are talking about BDS, not the anti-apartheid movement.

A real durable long-term solution is going to recognize both the rights of the Palestinians to their own state in the now occupied territories and the right of Israel to exist as Israel.

BDS movement does not acknowledge the right of Israel to exist, and as such perpetuates the problem just as surely as the righ-wing Israelis in Likud, etc. who similarly do not want to see a viable two state solution.

[Ash_F]

19. It seems like the South Africans see some similarity

http://www.bdssouthafrica.com/

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Maybe they do, but the situations are not analagous.

I realize it is reflexive for some on the left to try and view Israel solely through the lens of colonialism and imperialism. That is their prerogative, however, it ignores a big part of the story.

And if people approach this problem from the perspective of "Israel needs to cease to exist", then congratulations, you just ordered up a continuation of the status quo.

You might be able to get the Israelis to commit to a two state solution- hell, in the 90s, i think we were almost there- but they are not going to acquiesce to a plan that turns both Israel and the territories into a single Palestinian majority state.

Not going to happen. Not now, not ever, not with all the boycotts in the Universe.

[Ash_F]

24. You should read the about page of that website.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Yeah, like the disingenuous map showing how israel "stole palestine" from '47 on

Gee, whiz, ive never seen that graphic or heard that point made before! Thanks, mister! I just fell off the turnip truck. Really, I have NO idea of the history of the region.

Funny, people who like maps, should look at the map of all the countries that were all set to help Nasser drive the jews into the sea immediately prior to the 6 day war.

Look, I meant what i said. Israel isnt going away. The extremists are the people on both sides who wont work for a 2 state solution, and they arent helping.

[still_one]

30. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[leftynyc]

39. Very well said

I wonder how many here realize that J Street - considered a very progressive group on the I/P issue - is very against bds. They know it for the anti semetic garbage it is.

[Behind the Aegis]

74. Felling like you're between Scylla and Charybdis?

One side screeching Sanders is a rank self-loathing Jew who hates Israel and the group whining he doesn't follow their extremist views and hate...oh sorry, "critical stance" on Israel. Sanders' big "sin" was he dared to mention Palestinians in less than a negative light, therefore, some translate it as "he hates Israel". Which is funny, given that the opposite is true for anyone who does the same with Israel and Israelis, therefore they must be "Likudniks" (the only party many "critics" of Israel even know) or "racist Islamophobes,"

[JI7]

28. Sanders agrees with her that BDS is anti semitic

[dsc]

45. but is he disgusting

or is that only for the people who are Hillary Clinton?

[ThePhilosopher04]

47. Nope.

[leftynyc]

40. Meanwhile her position

is the same as the vast majority of Americans. And since Bernie is also anti bds bullshit, so is his.

[Nonhlanhla]

20. I'm not with her on this

My own church also disinvested in Israel, mainly because it did not want to invest in companies that provided the equipment to destroy Palestinian homes, etc. We had a huge debate about this and the church has good people on both sides. I'm sure it's the same in the United Methodist Church.

[ThePhilosopher04]

21. +1

Appreciate your post!

[farleftlib]

51. +2

I'm glad you chimed in and that kind of debate is laudable.

[Nonhlanhla]

57. I should add

that my church does not support wholesale disinvestment and boycott of Israel - they specifically (if I understood it correctly) disinvested in specific companies that are used for particularly destructive ends by the current Israeli government. They have predictably been accused of anti-Semitism, but that is most certainly not the driving force (I know some of the people who led the decision, and I know the decision was very careful in its fundamental sympathy with Israel). One does not have to be either anti-Semitic or anti-Israel (two distinct concepts) to be concerned about some policies by the current Israeli government, and to not want to invest in companies that are used to bulldoze people's homes, for example.

I'm always surprised by people who find it easy to choose sides when it comes to Israel. I have very close Israeli friends and as a result my sympathies lie there, but I also have deep sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians as well as ties to my local Muslim community, so my sympathies also lie there. I also have close Jewish American friends who are quite critical of Israel's policies (showing quite clearly, I think that criticism of Israeli policies is not the same as anti-Semitism). And I have Muslim friends who tend to sympathize with the Palestinians, as well as Christian progressive friends who are equally concerned with the Palestinians. As I listen to these voices, I am always struck by how complex, how difficult, the whole situation is, and I find myself unable to grab for easy solutions or slogans.

With regards to Hillary, I reject the language used above about how she is "disgusting." That is nonsense. She is hawkish in general, to be sure, but I also know that Israel is largely dependent on the US for its existence, and I know the issue there is tremendously complex.

[Ash_F]

22. The UMC conference has delegates from all over the world.

I would not be surprised if they go with this.

[JI7]

27. BDS is Anti Semitic and Sanders agrees with her on that

[Warren DeMontague]

32. True.

People who want a Pro-BDS president arent going to be happy with either Democratic candidate.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Shhh...

Don't upset the apple cart with facts.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. As expected. Enabling apartheid is just another bit of her "Foreign policy experience".

[Cheese Sandwich]

33. Oh Hillary. On the wrong side of history again. Sad day for Democrats.

[leftynyc]

41. Presidents represent

their country's citizens. The vast majority of Americans agree with her (and Bernie for that matter). One day DUers will realize they represent a teeny minority on this issue. I guess that day is not today.

[Bad Dog]

42. Unfortunately any Methodist Church's investments are small beer

Compared to the Billions of dollars in military aid America gives to Israel, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

[farleftlib]

48. Israel is the one cause for which HRC will fight tooth and nail

She is de facto leader of the Israel can do no wrong faction.

[Bad Dog]

49. Do you think Sanders is that different?

Israel's billions of dollars in military aid is safe regardless of who becomes president.

[farleftlib]

50. Bernie was denied a chance to speak to AIPAC via video link

Even though they have granted Rep candidates that courtesy in the past. Bernie
supports a two-state solution but he has criticized Israel even though that would
definitely cost him votes from Jewish Democrats. In that sense he is worlds apart
from HRC on the I/P issue.

[Bad Dog]

52. Would he threaten the military aid though?

[farleftlib]

53. How would I know? He hasn't so far. eom

[Bad Dog]

54. I doubt it.

Obama has been the subject of all manner of insults from Netanyahu and the military aid has gone up. Israel will keep doing what ever it wants unless that is on the table.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

44. That's nice. Have they divested yet? Lol

[Scruffy1]

55. BDS won't make any difference.

Having been in the securities business, I find the whole movement laughable. The only things that drives stock prices is greed and fear. When stock is sold it is bought. To me it's a typical feel good about yourself without doing anything maneuver. Oh yeah, someone always brings up South Africa's boycott, which is not BDS, but the the truth is that the South Africans gave the whole store away to get "political" power and our worse off now than before.

[Attorney in Texas]

58. Please divest!

[1939]

76. Yes, let's try to ruin Caterpillar

One of the few good sources of blue collar union manufacturing jobs left in the US.

[Attorney in Texas]

77. Caterpillar ought to adjust its business model so it is not profiteer from conflict and oppression.

Is that too much to ask?

[1939]

78. Scene in Peoria, Illinois as foreman talks to workers

"Sorry, guys but we have to do a 15% layoff. Corporate cancelled the orders for 1200 dozers and graders for Israel because that soldier just shot the Palestinian kid who was stabbing people."

People wonder what creates Reagan Democrats.

[Attorney in Texas]

79. I suppose you also opposed the boycott of South Africa.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. Oregonian (Opinion): calling Israel an apartheid state is an insult to black South Africans

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/05/calling_israel_an_apartheid_st.html

Another difference between the situation in Israel and the West Bank is that, unlike the South Africa, where the oppressed blacks were mostly peaceful, Israel has faced multiple wars started by its neighbors and faces ongoing attacks against Jewish Israelis by a significant segment of the Palestinian people. This is what has led to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the West Bank. This war-zone environment sets true apartheid apart from the Israel-Palestine conflict.