I understand sore losers. I don't understand sore winners

[cali]

Mostly because it shows they care less about their candidate and the goal of getting said candidate elected than punching on the candidate losing and those supporting that candidate.

It's petty. It's dumb. And the irony of those who supported Hillary to the bitter end in 2008, excoriating Bernie supporters for sticking with him now, is glaring.

[Buzz Clik]

1. What fraction of Hillary supporters at DU do you suppose are guilty of that?

[cali]

4. I don't know, but they're a very vocal contingent

[emulatorloo]

16. A handful of loud obnoxious people. Is still a handful no matter how loud they are.

I read lots of bullshit here but most people aren't full of bullshit.

[Buzz Clik]

19. Agreed. There is no question that we hear calls for Sanders to drop every day at DU.

I submit it's a small fraction. Not that they don't deserve the scorn you're showing in your OP, but it isn't everybody...

[KittyWampus]

26. what contingent of Sanders supporters is still pretending he will win, there'll be an indictment,

blame Sanders' loss on cheating, keep calling for transcripts, call Hillary Clinton a murderer, call Bill Clinton "an old pervert", ensure everyone on DU she will lose badly in the GE?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

57. +1

I see waaaay more of those threads day in, day out than those calling on Sanders to quit (though I personally think that his decision to stay in is based on a misguided belief that he can still win at the convention)

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Peek over in Camp Bansalot.

That'll be a good start.

[Buzz Clik]

23. I peeked. My conclusion: two of the top 50 active threads ask him to quit.

Pretty small percentage.

[TheCowsCameHome]

32. You didn't read the OP, did you?

asking him to quit is far from "excoriating Bernie supporters for sticking with him now"

Good try, though.

[Buzz Clik]

35. Playing semantics? Sure. Fine. You count the threads.

[TheCowsCameHome]

37. It would take all day.

They never stop over there, plus sometimes a few even venture out into the real world.

[hrmjustin]

5. You signed up just to tell us we are mean?

[hrmjustin]

15. Bully?

[pinebox]

12. Boy you walked right into that one

[JaneyVee]

9. Sorry, but there havent been hundreds of articles....

About the behavior of Hillary supporters, like there has been about Bernie supporters: http://www.mediaite.com/online/superdelegates-who-back-clinton-reporting-harassment-threats-from-sanders-supporters/

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2016/04/28/superdelegates-facing-venom-from-sanders-supporters/nks4ggwazdbdwrjqkQdBRP/story.html

[JaneyVee]

21. LOFL!

You mean the same media who has been trying to destroy Hillary for decades is shilling for her? LOFL. The media gives Hillary the most negative coverage of any candidate.

[NorthCarolina]

14. They despise the average working stiff and poor.

Their circle of peers is a much more financially gifted/grafted breed.

[Hiraeth]

33. Their contempt for the great unwashed is glaring. In theory, at least, they wanted PROGRAMS

to help as long as the poor were on the other side of town.

Now, they just want their social security left alone and DON'T RAISE THEIR TAXES .... god forbid.

somehow THEY are NOT republicans.

[NorthCarolina]

64. Remember the big outrage over

Bernie's free State and Community College program, that they "didn't want to pay for Trumps kids to go to the Community College of their choice" on the taxpayer dime. Forget the greater good served to society by such a program because, hey - "Trump's kids".

The greed of "me first" and "I got mine" infects both parties.

[Hiraeth]

65. The greed of "me first" and "I got mine" infects both parties. This is why there is a huge

upheaval taking place in both parties. I fully expect to see a viable third/fourth parties emerge.

[Buzz Clik]

20. Holy shit. A brand new DUer comes crashing in solely to insult HRC supporters...

... and immediately complains about bullying?

Laughable.

[grossproffit]

47. ...

[img][/img]

[Marr]

49. I know exactly what you're referring to.

They have a distinctive sort of mean-spirited sneer. It's hard to describe, but it's practically a trademark at this point. Maybe it's just that they have this sort of right-wing mud-wallowing thing, and it seems out of place on the left.

[hrmjustin]

3. I personally think he should drop out but I don't excoriate people here for still supporting Sanders

[cali]

6. Fair enough.

[ieoeja]

45. Link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511911251#post5

[hrmjustin]

53. What about it?

[PowerToThePeople]

7. Because in their mind they have not won yet

They will not have won until the left is completely crushed. They will not win.

[Fumesucker]

11. What's really revealing are the sore winners who were on the other team last time

And were just as big a jerk about it back then too..

[Marr]

55. +1, god, is that ever the truth.

I think there must just be a type that will always jump on the winning team, so they can kick people in a team.

[vintx]

58. Yep, that's it exactly.

They just want to be on the side that's winning.

[demmiblue]

61. Yes, it seems that way. n/t

[JaneyVee]

13. Because Bernie fans tactics are backfiring?

[cali]

18. Stunningly clueless and illustrative of my points.

[Bluenorthwest]

22. I understand it, it comes from lacking experience with victory.

Large public wins are a very special animal and what first timers often don't grasp is that their own responses to initial victory contribute to the quality of the next contest and to the outcome of those contests. This is wildly important in an election cycle where the Primary win is both extremely important and utterly meaningless, it's a win oft won by those about to lose the actual prize, Primary winners include Not President Mitt, who is never spoken of as a winner because what he won was not the prize.

[cali]

27. Great post. I think you're right.

[NurseJackie]

24. If, when you stay "sticking with him" you actually mean ...

... "continuing to attack and smear Hillary and the party; and expressing hopes and desires for an indictment; and making accusations of criminal money laundering; and claims that Hillary-is-worse-than-Trump"; and linking to RW web sites; and reposting RW memes ... I have to wonder what exactly you're expecting that would cause such consternation.

And if, by "Bernie supporters" you actually mean "Hillary-Haters", then there's absolutely no "irony" in "excoriating" them. Why would this surprise you?

I understand sore losers. I don't understand sore winners

... and I don't understand how the aggressive poo-flinging posters can suddenly become such delicate flowers needing you to come to their rescue.

I do believe you're sick and tired of it ... that's true without a doubt. But what I do not believe is that you're as confused about this as you'd have us believe.

[Turin_C3PO]

71. I believe though

what she's saying is that at least with Bernie fans it's understandable (cuz they lost) but with Hillary supporters it's a little bit of "punching down", ya know? Be the bigger person and let's focus on kicking Rethug Trump ass!

[NurseJackie]

74. And let them have all the fun? :-P

I take your point, but it sounds as though the recommendation is that we just sit here and take it? Just willingly be their punching bag? Just let all the insults and hypocrisy and the wild accusations go unchallenged?

Not a chance. Considering that Hillary supporters are the minority at this particular site (15% to 85% according to Skinner) and also considering the endless shit, alert stalking, shutting down threads, lop-sided Bernie-friendly jury verdicts, suspensions left-and-right as a result, and everything else that Hillary supporters have had to put up with for months and MONTHS, you'd think that these aggressive folks (who are still a majority by the way) could buck-up and stand it for the very few remaining weeks.

Or, even better ... Bernie could utter one of these words: "concede" or "withdraw" or "suspend" ... or ... Skinner could "call-it" and it would all come to an end.

At that point, we could all rally around our party's nominee, and everyone could go back to being "besties" and BFF's.

[Turin_C3PO]

75. Yeah I understand what you're saying.

I'm actually a Bernie supporter (regardless of what people here think lol) but my observation is that at the beginning of primary season (about a year ago) Sanders fans were super rude to Clinton supporters. Usually the Clinton supporters would say "I like Sanders but I believe Hillary is better for the job" or something like that. And Sanders supporters started getting people banned,hidden, etc (especially POC) and finally, Hillary fans started retaliating in kind.

Now it seems like the nastiness is about equal on both sides (i.e many alerts on both Hillary and Sanders posts are more legitimate now) and it's a shame.

There's two things where I will respond angrily to and alert on: 1) Spreading RW lies about Clinton and the emails, indictment, etc.) and 2) Using RW rhetoric when speaking about Bernie's ideas ("Free stuff, freeloaders, commies,etc.)

I'll sure be glad when Skinner calls it, I agree with that!

[NurseJackie]

76. :-)

[nolawarlock]

81. You summed this up great.

Of course I came into the tail end of it, but I had actual commentary on an issue that I personally cared about and had thought-out ideas on and got called a paid troll and a shill and a sock and everything else, so yeah, I got a little snarky. I've lived by a strict policy for years: I don't like to fight, but if I'm forced to, make it fun and make it funny. People can drag me into conflict I would otherwise avoid but what they cannot do is tell me I can't enjoy the ride. So for every bait that resulted in a hide for something that wasn't anywhere near as bad as what I was replying to, or hides that were for practically nothing at all, my sig file just got more and more ... fun ... at least for me anyway. There are many ways to the top of a mountain and I never presume I'm only going to stay on one path to it.

I probably agree with a sum total of more of Sanders' policies than I do Hillary and I still think Hillary would be better for the job and, just as importantly, better against Trump. Yes, I know what the polls say, but I think that will change once Trump hits Bernie with all guns blazing and Bernie doesn't go as negative. I hate negative campaigning but the reality is, Trump is going to be the most vicious candidate ever fought and Hillary has proven with those two ads just how rough she's going to fight back. My main point of disagreement with Sanders is so fundamental to my existence, that I just cannot support him in spite of Hillary's position on the death penalty, her past waffling on gays (which was something nearly all Democrats did, including Obama), and other things. I could care less about her vote for Iraq because it wasn't a vote for the war, it was a vote to authorize force if necessary. I don't think anyone realized just how much of a gun-toting wahoo W actually was and nearly every Democrat I knew at the time believed the WMD lie. I was still against it mind you, because I was concerned then, and have since been validated, that overthrowing a relatively secular dictator would just end up with more of that Sharia law that so many Republicans whine about. But I digress. The pragmatism that Hillary has shown, the strength of her resolve in the face of decades of both false accusations and fair criticism, her ability to realize that we don't always get the whole loaf of bread, those are the reasons I think she'll do great. Bernie just feels to absolutist to me and, unless he's just pandering to the dejected with all this hullaballoo about Corporations, it terrifies me the affect that his crusade will have on small businesses like mine and I have not heard anything from his campaign that excludes us from that crusade.

[DLCWIdem]

77. I do know what you mean

I was on a thread earlier about a CA poll. Bernie and Hiliary supporters were both insulting each other, each saying they had to educate theirselves. Their point was whether or not the methodology of the poll was sound. Whether it included likely voters or just asked independents if they were likely to vote. The thread then disintigrated saying the poll was a tool of the "establishment" to try and bring Bernie down. I wanted to alert everyone on the thread that there was a possible probem with those polls anyway, but the insults just got me so mad that I devolved into the nyah nyah thing. About a month ago I heard from someone that there had been a substantial increase in registration for the california independent party (AIG) which is not the independent party. This party is an extreme right party which major issues are segrationist, immmigration and anti abortion. In California you have a non party preference. While reading the thread i checked with npr and sure enough 70 % seem to be registered with the wrong party. Any polls taken would be skewed. I am just letting you know that its both supporters, especially when bernies supporters try to delegitimasize her wins.

[Nye Bevan]

25. If Bernie was behaving graciously instead of badgering the superdelegates

to ignore the democratic wishes of the voters and the millions of extra votes his opponent has earned, people would be treating him a lot more respectfully.

Yes, he's welcome to stay in the race and put forth his policies, but he needs to stop with the delusional undemocratic superdelegate fantasies.

[cali]

34. Truly, you guys need to grab a clue.

[Nye Bevan]

36. You said you didn't understand why Hillary supporters are still being mean to Bernie.

I think I gave you the main reason.

[mythology]

46. To be fair

The thread is basically saying it's fine for Sanders supporters to act snotty, but if a Clinton supporter responds in kind, they are wrong. Coincidentally the OP is a Sanders supporter and finds any response that isn't in agreement with her as an example of what she is claiming. It's basically an excuse to keep calling people names.

[bvar22]

84. He's "welcome" to stay in the race???

He needs neither your "welcome", nor Hillary's "welcome", nor the DNCDebbie's "welcome" to stay in the race.
It is his RIGHT, not some gift granted by you and yours.
His issues and policies are MY issues and policies, and I have the right to have them on the national stage as long as possible.

The MORE people who hear them, the more people like them.
They are Old Style Democratic party...nothing radical or impossible about them.


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]

[Trust Buster]

28. When you watch a candidate and his supporters continue to attack the Democratic nominee

and helping Trump in the process, we have every right to point out that particular "dumb" IMO.

[HubertHeaver]

83. There you go again. Our nominee will be named at the convention in Philadelphia.

And no sooner.

[Waiting For Everyman]

29. It tells me they're just trying to dampen the vote.

I always do the opposite of what my adversaries want. So they're just encouraging me.

Punching down is never an acceptable thing to do.

I do remember 2008 on DU, and some of the posters' positions. Max irony, yes. Most of all, some who were so anti-Hillary then are just as pro-Hillary now. Somehow, such a horrible person became so great! Clearly it's a fact-free choice.

[seabeyond]

30. Give us the end game, and then we can reconcile. At this point Sanders and supporters are still lyin

smearin, attackin and we have no choice to call that out.

I get that you continually promote the coddlin' of Sanders, but at a point the damage is irreparable and we must stand up for ourselves and not be your and others doormat. But hey... thanks for more insults/attacks/smears.

[cali]

38. You win the prize. Dubious as it is. No surprise at all.

[seabeyond]

42. Ya, Cali. Whatever. How about some more insults that you expect us to just take because....

Well, we are the winner and you are the loser.

[TDale313]

39. You're not gonna bully people into liking her.

Those who opposed her in the primaries- many may vote for her. Some may come around. But a lot of Sanders supporters have real, legit issues with where the party is right now and the Clintons roll in getting us there.

Hillary supporters continuing to attack Sanders supporters (even the ones who have said they intent to vote for her even if they're not thrilled about it) is completely unproductive. The gloating, the nastiness- it just hurts your cause.

And I have news for ya. She's almost certainly gonna be the nominee- but Sanders and his supporters and his movement and energy- that's not going away. It's about more that this election cycle. You guys will literally kill the party if you insist on driving away the nearly half the party that feels it needs to seriously change the way it does business. Political parties are supposed to be looking out for our interests. If they're not they serve no purpose.

[seabeyond]

41. I am not into trying to convince people of shit TD. What is the point? People here have declared

they are never, ever, in no way or no how, gonna ever vote for Clinton.

So, don't.

I do know that the vast majority of Sanders supporters have no issue voting for Clinton. I know there is another group that will vote for her, because they are voting against Trump. Just like I would vote for Sanders only because I am voting against Trump. And then there will be those that do not vote. That is on them.

I am not taking lies and smear and attacks to try to convince these people to vote Clinton. If one cannot figure it out themselves, I know I am not gonna convince them.

I went thru 2004 election in a very red area and was just sure, that with patience, understanding, facts, and the full story, well educated, I could get people to understand the necessity, their own interest, to not vote Bush. You know what? Didn't matter. Lesson learned. What is now being demanded, to continue coddling to maybe get someone to actually think beyond their own interest or wants, allow lies and smear and attack to not hurt their feeling, hoping beyond hop they might arrive at reason, isn't gonna happen.

[TDale313]

73. When we broad brush attack "the other side"

It just makes it so much harder than it has to be. That's all I'm saying. It alienates even those of us not Bernie or Bust. Sanders isn't the enemy here. Most Sanders supporters aren't the enemy. You may not agree with them, but they genuinely want to make things better.

I fully expect this to fall on deaf ears, but yes, some of the Hillary supporters could do a lot of good by just letting the Sanders supporters process things without the meanness. Ya won- get over it 😉

[TDale313]

31. Right there with ya. I don't get it.

Also, great to see ya back.

[Orsino]

40. For a few, a proxy win is not enough.

There must also be a proxy loss, and everyone on that team must be called a loser, and must issue an apology for being a loser.

[Fast Walker 52]

43. yep! And glad to see you back. Haven't see you for a while!

[grossproffit]

44. Uh huh. Nearly every topic is a Hillary hit piece on GDP

Many of us have had enough.

[cali]

48. Not even close.

And considering that most duers are Bernie supporters, that says a lot.

[grossproffit]

54. And most voters are Hillary supporters, that says a lot more.

Carry on.

[ViseGrip]

50. GO BERNIE! WINNERS DON'T QUIT AND QUITTERS DON'T WIN!

[SidDithers]

51. Being a "sore winner" is a natural reaction to the amount of bullshit pilled on Hillary...

and her supporters.

Threads like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511910601

invite a response in kind.



Sid

[Sheepshank]

52. The constant smack downs, the name calling, the attempt to disenfranchise

(remember, Hillary supporters are told they are not progressive), called idiot, voting with uterus, blind followers, have Stockholm Syndrome, have blood on their hands for supporting Hillary, called liars, corporate shills, supporting the oligarchs, etc etc etc.....it's not being sore winners as much as the minority on this board being able to finally push back and feel vindicated.

I happen to think it the BS supporters, who are in the vocal majority here, and yet are losing, are the ones that are having a more difficult time coming to terms with the losses and are lashing out.

[aikoaiko]

56. Many HRC want Bernie to kiss the ring.

[corkhead]

59. Both parties want to destroy the left. eom

[synergie]

60. I quite agree, just look how the Bernie supporters reacted anytime he won anything.

Posts accusing Hilkary of being a murderer, corrupt and all sorts of hysterical, unhinged abuse one would associate with the free republic, Alrpex Jones and the R W echo chamber. The goal never seemed to be about supporting Bernie as much as it was about venting the seething hatred for Hilkary. Her supporters too are silenced, kicked, called names and gas lighted when they point to the rather large pile of evidence of misogyny and abuse that is the hallmark of vocal supporters on the Internet. Stalking, twisting of words, and the sheer denials of reality, including punishing anyone who dares to refer to supported facts about their candidate are viciously silenced.

It is petty, it us dumb, and the irony seems to be completely lost on those being so, and the total lack of self awareness is indeed glaring. Being sore because your candidate is losing, and because you simply cannot handle simple things like his voting record and his publishing history is something the Bernie supporters are just going to have to deal with, and the sooner the better.

[bbgrunt]

62. she doesn't need us anymore--she's going after disaffected republicans. Well, good luck with that.

[Sheepshank]

79. ...but it was OK when Bernie announced that same strategy a few weeks ago?

hypocrisy much?

[ContinentalOp]

63. If people cried fraud every time you won you would probably be pretty sore about it too.

If people tried to erase entire swaths of the country you won and played games with the numbers to make it look like they were winning you would get pretty sore about it pretty quickly.

You seem to be conceding that she has won the nomination. Yet DU is still full of thread after thread attacking her with right wing garbage.

Last night I had a post hidden by the Sanders mob for simply quoting something he said word for word. The entire text of my post was literally just a direct quote of the candidate's own words, and they hid it like a bunch of cowards.

It gets old.

[Turin_C3PO]

66. I'll be glad when primary season is over.

Since I like both candidates, I've been accused on both sides of shilling for the other team. It gets old.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. Team Hillary isn't an election campaign, it's a club.

They define their purity and fitness by who they exclude; whites, men, boy-crazy young women, "stupid" hispanic Cinco de Mayo protestors, and people who want free stuff.

Losing is okay, provided none of those kinds of people get into the tent.

[auntpurl]

70. I really do think this is DU-specific.

After how awful and mean everyone has been this primary season (on BOTH sides, but there are more Bernie supporters here) it's a bit of nyah nyah. I highly doubt people are going around in their real lives gloating the way they do here.

[NCTraveler]

72. This is very personal and has been an extremely hard fought battle by both side.

Having some go overboard on both sides should be expected. This isn't a game of dominos.

You are talking small percentages. I have also seen where cheering victory alone has been called out as being a sore winner.

This really isn't a big deal.

"And the irony of those who supported Hillary to the bitter end in 2008, excoriating Bernie supporters for sticking with him now, is glaring. "

You make a good point but seem to miss that there is a flip side to that coin. I don't even have to change a word of your sentence here and that aspect should be obvious.

[nolawarlock]

78. Since most Bernie supporters seem to be saying that Sanders is winning ...

... does this mean you're accusing your fellow Bernie supporters of being sore winners? I'm confused.

[cali]

80. Oh dear. Clunky and far from clever.

[nolawarlock]

82. Nah. Just curious.

The simplest perusal of GDP shows a groundswell of Sanders posts about how he's winning, winning, winning.

Are you admitting he's actually losing? Never mind. That's rhetorical, clearly. I've seen the rabid hate you're getting from your fellow Sanders supporters for even intimating that the sanctified Bernie isn't going to be the next Charlemagne.