2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA summary of Vaticangate
If you're like me and had other stuff to do in the past 24 hours other than keep up with all the ins and outs of Bernie's travel plans to
Italy, you may find this summary helpful. It's told entirely through twitter posts, which all good DUers know is the incontrovertible source of truth.
https://storify.com/Cajsa/sanders-and-the-vatican-story
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)The Pope is Argentine, not some bloody Englishman.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)This is harder to keep up with than Benghazi. Facts on the ground change so quickly.
Contrary1
(12,629 posts)Leaving the 15th open for the Pope to "serve Bernie tea and crumpets."
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)It's mate, not tea and crumpets. Geesh.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)This is the current story, giving Bernie as much plausible deniability as he can get (*cough*Reagan*cough*)
[ol start="0"]
Maximum of 3 degrees of separation between Bernie and the conference organizers, but the begging/muscling on Bernie's behalf happened. PERIOD. Now, Bernie and his crew are singing and dancing in a circle formed around Bernie's green participant's ribbon, and Conference Director Margaret Archer is seething.
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)It's pretty funny considering it is nothing like Bernie and co have presented it. It's an academic conference, which as we know is not exactly exciting, except possibly for the trips to the bar after sessions have finished for the day.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Yeah. Makes it worthwhile.
Knock 'em dead, Bernie. They'll be thrilled with the depth of your research.
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)He sure showed the NY Daily News what's what.
eShirl
(18,503 posts)DanTex
(20,709 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)I so look forward to hearing Bernie's insights.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)and the conference program, participation does require a thorough knowledge of Catholic social teaching over the past 25 years. I'd assume that Sanders is studying up on that now.
http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)And he'll be spending the next two weeks putting together a carefully researched theological paper.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Bernie gets invited to the Vatican.
Heads explode and fits of crying rage of "no fairs" engulf Camp Lying Liars.
Sane people point at Camp Lying Liars and laugh.
End of summary.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... is petty, childish, and reeks of desperation.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)with more respect. Sanders and his supporters do need that lecture. They can't stand for poor S Americans to get jobs and investments from trade, and those that have come here for a better life are considered scabs.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Yeah sure!
What's your next argument? Nanny nanny boo boo?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)Cry me a fucking river.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)brush
(53,871 posts)is smart?
This has to be the stupidest screw-up by Sanders' staff we've seen yet.
Instead of campaigning in New York to minimize the damages from the NYDN interview and the "Hillary is not qualified" debacle, he's going to be out of the country attending some obscure academic conference where he's not even scheduled to speak, not to mention meet the Pope because the Pope won't be there.
My bet is that he'll cancel the trip and get back on the campaign trail, but his campaign, and his own competence, will take huge hits over this bungled foolishess.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)... think of this. Probably with bated breath.
I wouldn't put your paycheck on that bet. Just sayin'...
(Side note: I'm left to wonder how Senator Sanders has gotten this far without the brilliance of your strategical mind directing him.)
brush
(53,871 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)... some partisan random clown on the net.
brush
(53,871 posts)4 days before the primary that could catch him up in the delegate lead?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Run along now little Hillarian, you are getting boring.
brush
(53,871 posts)Don't bother replying since civility seems to be beyond your comprehension.
I'm just not "about" listening to phoney bullshit voiced by partisan "concern" pretenders and giving them a free pass doing it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)as a matter of practice, it's generally best to go to the original source rather than news accounts. Here is the Pontifical Academy's description of the Conference commemorating the 25th anniversary of Centesimus Annus.
http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/events/2014-18/centesimus_annus.html
polly7
(20,582 posts)I've also read a dozen articles on what the conference will be concerned with.
Idolatry of money, climate change and reintroducing morality into financial regulation.
There is a somewhat uncanny overlap between the way Bernie and Francis talk about economic issues. One of the first pieces of writing the pope released during his tenure, Evangelii Gaudium, is all about the greed and fundamental corruption at the heart of the global economy. Both men speak with passion about poverty and talk about labor and wages in moral terms. And Sanders has often praised the pope, including after the pontiff addressed the U.S. Congress in September.
Jeffrey Sachs, a Columbia University professor who is presenting at the event, said in a phone interview that he helped the Vatican reach out to Bernie Sanders in March, and he doesnt know why Archer alleged that the Sanders campaign initiated the gig. The academy sent the invitation, its pure and simple, he said. A lot of people in the Vatican respect him a lot. He is speaking in the same kind of moral themes that Pope Francis, and the social teachings of the Church, promote, which is a moral economy. A representative who works with Sachs also passed along an official invitation from Sanchez Sorondo to Sanders dated on March 30......
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-heads-to-the-vatican/477471/
The pope is usually reluctant to be seen as endorsing candidates or getting involved in national politics, but he caused a stir during his recent trip the US, when he called on Congress to tackle climate change and embrace immigration.
Sanders believes the popes unusually political visit in September helped lend legitimacy to his own message of democratic socialism, which he argues is much more in tune with the tradition of American political reformers like Franklin Roosevelt than is often appreciated.
The senator said he plans to talk about the idolatry of money and the dangers to our culture of being seduced by the worship of money during his visit to the Vatican on Friday.
He also said the evidence of offshore banking activity revealed by the Guardian and other news outlets this week in the Panama Papers underlined why it was important to reintroduce morality into financial regulation.
It is not going to be a very long trip, I plan to be back on Saturday, he added when asked if it would interfere with his campaign schedule in New York.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/08/bernie-sanders-vatican-visit-pope-francis
(note: Clinton will be hobnobbing at yet another 300,000 per plate fund-raiser, I get that you need to dismiss this little conference, and why. It must suck to have to rain all over something good to defend the indefensible).
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)but I have to be off. I do suspect you've underestimated the importance of Bernie's visit to Rome. This post lays it out clearly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511689128
polly7
(20,582 posts)You sound a lot like Hillary explaining to the uninformed masses how they just need to do their research.
it's a dog's life, ain't it.
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)of a text by Pope John Paul II, held by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. Pope Francis will not be in Rome at the time but instead will be in Greece.
Still, you were close.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)More misinformation by camp Clinton, in operation Straw-Clutching?
frylock
(34,825 posts)I cannot WAIT until Bernie actually does meet with the Pope!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)let's bookmark threads like these. And remember not to gloat TOO much when the news starts to be spread... (cue the theme of New York New York)
frylock
(34,825 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)spite, jealousy and sour grapes aplenty, when Sanders is invited to a major religious conference on pverty and the need to stop worshipping money, and the pope had refused (less than a year ago) to visit Clinton's foundation.
polly7
(20,582 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)Does that meet Bernie will stop asking the people for $27 tithes?
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)How about we all agree that is something major for a country in which money is too often worshipped by the rich, powerful, and privileged?
brush
(53,871 posts)campaign. If he wins he just about catches Hillary in delegates and devastates her campaign by beating her in her home state and he will cruise to the nomination.
If he loses he's wrapped the nomination in a bow for Hillary as he will no longer have any chance to catch her in delegates.
And you guys are touting him going out of the country to an obscure, academic conference where he won't even speak or meet the Pope 4 days before the New York primary?
Brilliant, no wonder he's behind.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Instead, you're here typing out your faux concern.
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)Sanders is showing he can do that, doing three appearances in New York in one day (that was today, in fact) while reserving time for an important convention on poverty reduction.
This is not about photo ops, it's about being presidential - and Sanders has just shown us he is VERY qualified to be president: sound judgement, international standing, and combining it with campaign work.
Feel the Bern!
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Conference programme:
http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf
If Sanders had not pretended he had been summoned by the Pope, I would not care about this whole issue. But in a state like NY, where I think 30+% are Catholic, this is going a bit far. And they talk about "desperation."
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)lies primarily in its comedic value.
You know SNL has got to be thinking about replacing one of tomorrow night's skits.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)BainsBane
(53,072 posts)His travel plans will change once he finds out what the event actually is and that the pope won't be there.
ismnotwasm
(42,014 posts)My favorite meme of all time is still Bernie=Jesus, but being besties with the pope runs a close second, for sure.
frylock
(34,825 posts)nichomachus
(12,754 posts)And say something positive about Hillary. Oh, sorry. I forgot. There isn't anything.
Maybe there's something in her transcripts that makes her look good. She should release them so we can see.
BainsBane
(53,072 posts)but I'm just trying to help fill in the gaps on this.
You mistake delight for a tantrum. This whole story is incredibly entertaining.
It's also interesting to see people who have railed against the Catholic Church for years get so excited about Bernie's traveling to the Vatican.
PatrickforO
(14,592 posts)Single payer healthcare
Strengthening Social Security
Ensuring big corporations pay their fair share of taxes and don't get to hide trillions offshore
Renegotiating the 'free' trade agreements so they are FAIR to American workers
Taking a leadership stance in mitigating climate change
But, hey, this fits right into the Clinton campaign strategy, a la Karl Rove - Keep Bernie discussing this bullshit, and YOU WON'T HAVE TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE ON ISSUES.
Our presidential election cycle is a fucking freak show, and if we overturn Citizens United and have publicly funded elections instead of massive mega jumbo corporate funded ones, then it would NOT be. Would it??????
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,858 posts)It's an international conference about economic justice sponsored by an agency of the Vatican, to which Bernie was invited because that's been the central theme of his campaign (and his entire political life). For the last couple of days Camp Weathervane has been in a complete uproar about this conference. First we're told he invited himself (he didn't); then, when that lie was epically debunked, we were, and continue to be, presented with a whole litany of reasons why he can't/shouldn't/won't go: He's taking too much time away from the campaign. He'll get jet lag. The conference is small and obscure and stupid and nobody important will be there. He won't be able to get a flight to Rome in time. He won't be able to get back to NYC in time. He can't afford a plane ticket. He won't have time for sightseeing. The Pope won't be there. And on and on.
And I keep asking: Why the hell do you all care so much about this thing? Why do you keep flogging this ad nauseam? Got yourselves a sad because Hillary didn't get invited? Don't like the optics of Bernie talking about the idolatry of money while Hillary is idolizing money at the Clooneys' $353K fundraiser? It's like the old saying about throwing rocks into a pig pen: you know you've hit one when you hear the squeal.
Maybe he won't be able to go after all because of his schedule. Maybe he won't meet the Pope. But whether or not he goes, the thing that's causing the loudest squealing is that Bernie is being recognized by an international organization for his fight for economic justice, while Hillary is recognized mostly by Goldman Sachs and George Clooney. So give it a rest. You're making yourselves look envious and petty.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)seaglass
(8,173 posts)I would have invited Hillary Clinton too if I thought she would accept, Sorondo said, adding that he did not consult the pope on the Sanders invitation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-ties-his-advocacy-for-a-moral-economy-to-the-work-of-pope-francis/2016/04/09/1082454e-fe58-11e5-80e4-c381214de1a3_story.html?postshare=5551460219544263&tid=ss_tw