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BainsBane

(53,072 posts)
Sat Apr 9, 2016, 08:59 AM Apr 2016

A summary of Vaticangate

If you're like me and had other stuff to do in the past 24 hours other than keep up with all the ins and outs of Bernie's travel plans to
Italy, you may find this summary helpful. It's told entirely through twitter posts, which all good DUers know is the incontrovertible source of truth.

https://storify.com/Cajsa/sanders-and-the-vatican-story

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A summary of Vaticangate (Original Post) BainsBane Apr 2016 OP
It is a shame the pope will be in Lesbos Greece and can't serve Bernie tea and crumpets. hrmjustin Apr 2016 #1
Lesbos? BainsBane Apr 2016 #2
This story keeps on giving. hrmjustin Apr 2016 #3
By the way, it's mate BainsBane Apr 2016 #4
I think you know this is inaccurate now. noiretextatique Apr 2016 #56
The Pope isn't going to Lesbos? BainsBane Apr 2016 #57
He's going to Lesbos on the16th... Contrary1 Apr 2016 #64
How many times do I have to tell everyone BainsBane Apr 2016 #65
The flash point for most DUers is whether or not Bernie begged for this invitation. Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #5
Even if it didn't involve muscling BainsBane Apr 2016 #7
Academics going to a bar after an excruciating day of attending a boring conference? What what what? Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #8
Right? BainsBane Apr 2016 #11
Sounds legit! eShirl Apr 2016 #37
Another screw-up by Camp Bernie. More Pinocchios in his future. DanTex Apr 2016 #6
When will they start demanding that Pinocchios be counted as delegates? Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #9
LOL. DanTex Apr 2016 #10
Here's the text that the conference is about BainsBane Apr 2016 #12
By reading this text DesertRat Apr 2016 #61
Of course BainsBane Apr 2016 #63
Summary: 99Forever Apr 2016 #13
To say/pretend you've been summoned by the Pope is sleazy. Sorry Hoyt Apr 2016 #14
To whine and cry because your 1%er heroine wasn't invited... 99Forever Apr 2016 #19
Don't think she would want to go, nor that she needs to be lectured on treating South Americans Hoyt Apr 2016 #22
Bwahahahahahahahhaha..... 99Forever Apr 2016 #23
Another childish response from Sanders' supporters. Hoyt Apr 2016 #27
Yeah sure. 99Forever Apr 2016 #31
She could't go - she has important $$$ stuff to discuss in the Bay Area with the Cloonys. nt jmg257 Apr 2016 #29
Are you seriously suggesting that going to this conference 4 days before the NY primary . . . brush Apr 2016 #35
Well, I'm sure Bernie and his staff have been waiting to hear what you... 99Forever Apr 2016 #36
So you think it's a smart move 4 days before the make or break New York primary? brush Apr 2016 #39
I think Bernie is a whole lot more politically astute than... 99Forever Apr 2016 #40
No need for the insults. Do you think it's smart to go out of the country . . . brush Apr 2016 #42
Asked and answered. 99Forever Apr 2016 #43
So all you're about is insults. Sanders is not well served by some of his supporters brush Apr 2016 #44
Nope. 99Forever Apr 2016 #45
I think you've nailed it! polly7 Apr 2016 #15
Couldn't respond to you in the locked thread BainsBane Apr 2016 #17
Uh ...... I wasn't waiting. Saw you post that half a dozen times already. polly7 Apr 2016 #18
Sorry I don't have time to give your post the attention it deserves BainsBane Apr 2016 #20
I wasn't waiting, I won't be waiting. polly7 Apr 2016 #21
Well, it's an academic conference commemorating the 25th anniversary BainsBane Apr 2016 #16
The visit to Greece has just been postponed by two days, so yes: the pope WILL be in Rome. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #30
Have they gotten even one thing straight regarding this nontroversy? frylock Apr 2016 #46
I'll wait for confirmation of that - but just in case Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #50
Yep yep frylock Apr 2016 #54
Yep, they're still flogging it, it's worse than the meltdown they had over the bird. beam me up scottie Apr 2016 #59
The summary is a desperate attempt at misinformation by camp Clinton Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #24
Good on him for refusing that invite ........... THAT would have been all about a photo-op. nt. polly7 Apr 2016 #25
Here is the Pontifical Academy's description of the Conference BainsBane Apr 2016 #26
Here an idea for you: a senator has been asked to attend a conference on the fight against poverty Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #28
It's not an audience with the Pope. The New York primary is make or break for his . . . brush Apr 2016 #38
Then you should be celebrating. frylock Apr 2016 #48
A president must be able to combine "academic conferences" with other obligations. Betty Karlson Apr 2016 #49
Here's the agenda. Not a big group, nor a very diverse group. Hoyt Apr 2016 #32
My interest in the subject BainsBane Apr 2016 #33
It really is funny. I hope press gets photos of him tied up at the conference for several days. Hoyt Apr 2016 #34
I have a feeling BainsBane Apr 2016 #53
It's hilarious ismnotwasm Apr 2016 #41
Nailed it. It's the ultimate affront to Camp Weathervain. frylock Apr 2016 #47
Camp Weathervane needs to just stop the tantrum nichomachus Apr 2016 #51
There is lots positive BainsBane Apr 2016 #58
Needless bullshit when the issues are: PatrickforO Apr 2016 #52
You guys are *so* bent out of shape about this. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2016 #55
They care because Hillary was snubbed by the pope. She can't even BUY an audience. beam me up scottie Apr 2016 #60
Lol. seaglass Apr 2016 #62

BainsBane

(53,072 posts)
57. The Pope isn't going to Lesbos?
Sat Apr 9, 2016, 06:49 PM
Apr 2016

This is harder to keep up with than Benghazi. Facts on the ground change so quickly.

Contrary1

(12,629 posts)
64. He's going to Lesbos on the16th...
Sat Apr 9, 2016, 08:03 PM
Apr 2016

Leaving the 15th open for the Pope to "serve Bernie tea and crumpets."

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
5. The flash point for most DUers is whether or not Bernie begged for this invitation.
Sat Apr 9, 2016, 09:22 AM
Apr 2016

This is the current story, giving Bernie as much plausible deniability as he can get (*cough*Reagan*cough*)

[ol start="0"]

  • Bernie needs international credibility. Tells his staff to get on it.
  • Staff puts out the word to paid consultants and wannabe members of the Sanders admin
  • Sachs responds that he's going to an academic summit in The Vatican. Sachs is a rock star at this conference, so he can secure an invite
  • In response to urgings from Sachs, one of the higher-ups in the conference organization extends the invite.

    Maximum of 3 degrees of separation between Bernie and the conference organizers, but the begging/muscling on Bernie's behalf happened. PERIOD. Now, Bernie and his crew are singing and dancing in a circle formed around Bernie's green participant's ribbon, and Conference Director Margaret Archer is seething.

  • BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    7. Even if it didn't involve muscling
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 09:27 AM
    Apr 2016

    It's pretty funny considering it is nothing like Bernie and co have presented it. It's an academic conference, which as we know is not exactly exciting, except possibly for the trips to the bar after sessions have finished for the day.

     

    Buzz Clik

    (38,437 posts)
    8. Academics going to a bar after an excruciating day of attending a boring conference? What what what?
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 09:32 AM
    Apr 2016

    Yeah. Makes it worthwhile.

    Knock 'em dead, Bernie. They'll be thrilled with the depth of your research.

    DesertRat

    (27,995 posts)
    61. By reading this text
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 07:12 PM
    Apr 2016

    and the conference program, participation does require a thorough knowledge of Catholic social teaching over the past 25 years. I'd assume that Sanders is studying up on that now.
    http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf

    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    63. Of course
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 07:46 PM
    Apr 2016

    And he'll be spending the next two weeks putting together a carefully researched theological paper.

    99Forever

    (14,524 posts)
    13. Summary:
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 09:49 AM
    Apr 2016

    Bernie gets invited to the Vatican.

    Heads explode and fits of crying rage of "no fairs" engulf Camp Lying Liars.

    Sane people point at Camp Lying Liars and laugh.

    End of summary.

    99Forever

    (14,524 posts)
    19. To whine and cry because your 1%er heroine wasn't invited...
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:26 AM
    Apr 2016

    ... is petty, childish, and reeks of desperation.

     

    Hoyt

    (54,770 posts)
    22. Don't think she would want to go, nor that she needs to be lectured on treating South Americans
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:30 AM
    Apr 2016

    with more respect. Sanders and his supporters do need that lecture. They can't stand for poor S Americans to get jobs and investments from trade, and those that have come here for a better life are considered scabs.

    brush

    (53,871 posts)
    35. Are you seriously suggesting that going to this conference 4 days before the NY primary . . .
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 12:49 PM
    Apr 2016

    is smart?

    This has to be the stupidest screw-up by Sanders' staff we've seen yet.

    Instead of campaigning in New York to minimize the damages from the NYDN interview and the "Hillary is not qualified" debacle, he's going to be out of the country attending some obscure academic conference where he's not even scheduled to speak, not to mention meet the Pope because the Pope won't be there.

    My bet is that he'll cancel the trip and get back on the campaign trail, but his campaign, and his own competence, will take huge hits over this bungled foolishess.

    99Forever

    (14,524 posts)
    36. Well, I'm sure Bernie and his staff have been waiting to hear what you...
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 12:56 PM
    Apr 2016

    ... think of this. Probably with bated breath.

    I wouldn't put your paycheck on that bet. Just sayin'...


    (Side note: I'm left to wonder how Senator Sanders has gotten this far without the brilliance of your strategical mind directing him.)

    99Forever

    (14,524 posts)
    40. I think Bernie is a whole lot more politically astute than...
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 01:14 PM
    Apr 2016

    ... some partisan random clown on the net.

    brush

    (53,871 posts)
    42. No need for the insults. Do you think it's smart to go out of the country . . .
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 01:39 PM
    Apr 2016

    4 days before the primary that could catch him up in the delegate lead?

    brush

    (53,871 posts)
    44. So all you're about is insults. Sanders is not well served by some of his supporters
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:02 PM
    Apr 2016

    Don't bother replying since civility seems to be beyond your comprehension.

    99Forever

    (14,524 posts)
    45. Nope.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:05 PM
    Apr 2016

    I'm just not "about" listening to phoney bullshit voiced by partisan "concern" pretenders and giving them a free pass doing it.

    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    17. Couldn't respond to you in the locked thread
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:19 AM
    Apr 2016

    as a matter of practice, it's generally best to go to the original source rather than news accounts. Here is the Pontifical Academy's description of the Conference commemorating the 25th anniversary of Centesimus Annus.

    http://www.pass.va/content/scienzesociali/en/events/2014-18/centesimus_annus.html

    polly7

    (20,582 posts)
    18. Uh ...... I wasn't waiting. Saw you post that half a dozen times already.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:22 AM
    Apr 2016

    I've also read a dozen articles on what the conference will be concerned with.



    Idolatry of money, climate change and reintroducing morality into financial regulation.

    There is a somewhat uncanny overlap between the way Bernie and Francis talk about economic issues. One of the first pieces of writing the pope released during his tenure, Evangelii Gaudium, is all about the greed and fundamental corruption at the heart of the global economy. Both men speak with passion about poverty and talk about labor and wages in moral terms. And Sanders has often praised the pope, including after the pontiff addressed the U.S. Congress in September.


    Jeffrey Sachs, a Columbia University professor who is presenting at the event, said in a phone interview that he helped the Vatican reach out to Bernie Sanders in March, and he doesn’t know why Archer alleged that the Sanders campaign initiated the gig. “The academy sent the invitation, it’s pure and simple,” he said. “A lot of people in the Vatican respect him a lot. He is speaking in the same kind of moral themes that Pope Francis, and the social teachings of the Church, promote, which is a moral economy.” A representative who works with Sachs also passed along an official invitation from Sanchez Sorondo to Sanders dated on March 30......

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/bernie-heads-to-the-vatican/477471/


    The pope is usually reluctant to be seen as endorsing candidates or getting involved in national politics, but he caused a stir during his recent trip the US, when he called on Congress to tackle climate change and embrace immigration.

    Sanders believes the pope’s unusually political visit in September helped lend legitimacy to his own message of “democratic socialism”, which he argues is much more in tune with the tradition of American political reformers like Franklin Roosevelt than is often appreciated.

    The senator said he plans to talk “about the idolatry of money and the dangers to our culture of being seduced by the worship of money” during his visit to the Vatican on Friday.

    He also said the evidence of offshore banking activity revealed by the Guardian and other news outlets this week in the Panama Papers underlined why it was important to reintroduce morality into financial regulation.

    “It is not going to be a very long trip, I plan to be back on Saturday,” he added when asked if it would interfere with his campaign schedule in New York.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/08/bernie-sanders-vatican-visit-pope-francis



    (note: Clinton will be hobnobbing at yet another 300,000 per plate fund-raiser, I get that you need to dismiss this little conference, and why. It must suck to have to rain all over something good to defend the indefensible).

    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    20. Sorry I don't have time to give your post the attention it deserves
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:29 AM
    Apr 2016

    but I have to be off. I do suspect you've underestimated the importance of Bernie's visit to Rome. This post lays it out clearly.
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511689128

    polly7

    (20,582 posts)
    21. I wasn't waiting, I won't be waiting.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:30 AM
    Apr 2016

    You sound a lot like Hillary explaining to the uninformed masses how they just need to do their research.


    it's a dog's life, ain't it.

    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    16. Well, it's an academic conference commemorating the 25th anniversary
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:15 AM
    Apr 2016

    of a text by Pope John Paul II, held by the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. Pope Francis will not be in Rome at the time but instead will be in Greece.

    Still, you were close.

     

    Betty Karlson

    (7,231 posts)
    30. The visit to Greece has just been postponed by two days, so yes: the pope WILL be in Rome.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:43 AM
    Apr 2016

    More misinformation by camp Clinton, in operation Straw-Clutching?

    frylock

    (34,825 posts)
    46. Have they gotten even one thing straight regarding this nontroversy?
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:16 PM
    Apr 2016

    I cannot WAIT until Bernie actually does meet with the Pope!

     

    Betty Karlson

    (7,231 posts)
    50. I'll wait for confirmation of that - but just in case
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:39 PM
    Apr 2016

    let's bookmark threads like these. And remember not to gloat TOO much when the news starts to be spread... (cue the theme of New York New York)

     

    Betty Karlson

    (7,231 posts)
    24. The summary is a desperate attempt at misinformation by camp Clinton
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:36 AM
    Apr 2016

    spite, jealousy and sour grapes aplenty, when Sanders is invited to a major religious conference on pverty and the need to stop worshipping money, and the pope had refused (less than a year ago) to visit Clinton's foundation.

     

    Betty Karlson

    (7,231 posts)
    28. Here an idea for you: a senator has been asked to attend a conference on the fight against poverty
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:41 AM
    Apr 2016

    How about we all agree that is something major for a country in which money is too often worshipped by the rich, powerful, and privileged?

    brush

    (53,871 posts)
    38. It's not an audience with the Pope. The New York primary is make or break for his . . .
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 01:00 PM
    Apr 2016

    campaign. If he wins he just about catches Hillary in delegates and devastates her campaign by beating her in her home state and he will cruise to the nomination.

    If he loses he's wrapped the nomination in a bow for Hillary as he will no longer have any chance to catch her in delegates.

    And you guys are touting him going out of the country to an obscure, academic conference where he won't even speak or meet the Pope 4 days before the New York primary?

    Brilliant, no wonder he's behind.

     

    Betty Karlson

    (7,231 posts)
    49. A president must be able to combine "academic conferences" with other obligations.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:33 PM
    Apr 2016

    Sanders is showing he can do that, doing three appearances in New York in one day (that was today, in fact) while reserving time for an important convention on poverty reduction.

    This is not about photo ops, it's about being presidential - and Sanders has just shown us he is VERY qualified to be president: sound judgement, international standing, and combining it with campaign work.

    Feel the Bern!

     

    Hoyt

    (54,770 posts)
    32. Here's the agenda. Not a big group, nor a very diverse group.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 10:48 AM
    Apr 2016

    Conference programme:

    http://www.pass.va/content/dam/scienzesociali/booklet/centesimus_annus.pdf


    If Sanders had not pretended he had been summoned by the Pope, I would not care about this whole issue. But in a state like NY, where I think 30+% are Catholic, this is going a bit far. And they talk about "desperation."


    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    33. My interest in the subject
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 11:38 AM
    Apr 2016

    lies primarily in its comedic value.

    You know SNL has got to be thinking about replacing one of tomorrow night's skits.

     

    Hoyt

    (54,770 posts)
    34. It really is funny. I hope press gets photos of him tied up at the conference for several days.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 11:49 AM
    Apr 2016

    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    53. I have a feeling
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:48 PM
    Apr 2016

    His travel plans will change once he finds out what the event actually is and that the pope won't be there.

    ismnotwasm

    (42,014 posts)
    41. It's hilarious
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 01:20 PM
    Apr 2016

    My favorite meme of all time is still Bernie=Jesus, but being besties with the pope runs a close second, for sure.

    nichomachus

    (12,754 posts)
    51. Camp Weathervane needs to just stop the tantrum
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:42 PM
    Apr 2016

    And say something positive about Hillary. Oh, sorry. I forgot. There isn't anything.

    Maybe there's something in her transcripts that makes her look good. She should release them so we can see.

    BainsBane

    (53,072 posts)
    58. There is lots positive
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 06:52 PM
    Apr 2016

    but I'm just trying to help fill in the gaps on this.
    You mistake delight for a tantrum. This whole story is incredibly entertaining.

    It's also interesting to see people who have railed against the Catholic Church for years get so excited about Bernie's traveling to the Vatican.

    PatrickforO

    (14,592 posts)
    52. Needless bullshit when the issues are:
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 02:45 PM
    Apr 2016

    Single payer healthcare
    Strengthening Social Security
    Ensuring big corporations pay their fair share of taxes and don't get to hide trillions offshore
    Renegotiating the 'free' trade agreements so they are FAIR to American workers
    Taking a leadership stance in mitigating climate change

    But, hey, this fits right into the Clinton campaign strategy, a la Karl Rove - Keep Bernie discussing this bullshit, and YOU WON'T HAVE TO DEFEND YOUR CANDIDATE ON ISSUES.

    Our presidential election cycle is a fucking freak show, and if we overturn Citizens United and have publicly funded elections instead of massive mega jumbo corporate funded ones, then it would NOT be. Would it??????

    The Velveteen Ocelot

    (115,858 posts)
    55. You guys are *so* bent out of shape about this.
    Sat Apr 9, 2016, 03:17 PM
    Apr 2016

    It's an international conference about economic justice sponsored by an agency of the Vatican, to which Bernie was invited because that's been the central theme of his campaign (and his entire political life). For the last couple of days Camp Weathervane has been in a complete uproar about this conference. First we're told he invited himself (he didn't); then, when that lie was epically debunked, we were, and continue to be, presented with a whole litany of reasons why he can't/shouldn't/won't go: He's taking too much time away from the campaign. He'll get jet lag. The conference is small and obscure and stupid and nobody important will be there. He won't be able to get a flight to Rome in time. He won't be able to get back to NYC in time. He can't afford a plane ticket. He won't have time for sightseeing. The Pope won't be there. And on and on.

    And I keep asking: Why the hell do you all care so much about this thing? Why do you keep flogging this ad nauseam? Got yourselves a sad because Hillary didn't get invited? Don't like the optics of Bernie talking about the idolatry of money while Hillary is idolizing money at the Clooneys' $353K fundraiser? It's like the old saying about throwing rocks into a pig pen: you know you've hit one when you hear the squeal.

    Maybe he won't be able to go after all because of his schedule. Maybe he won't meet the Pope. But whether or not he goes, the thing that's causing the loudest squealing is that Bernie is being recognized by an international organization for his fight for economic justice, while Hillary is recognized mostly by Goldman Sachs and George Clooney. So give it a rest. You're making yourselves look envious and petty.

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