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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:23 PM Mar 2016

WOW !!! - Ladies And Gentlemen... Bill Curry - Salon

Can Hillary stay in the race? If she loses Ohio and Missouri, Clinton’s case becomes very, very tenuous
Imagine if somone wins the last 10 primaries, leads every general election poll, then gets denied by superdelegates

Bill Curry - Salon
Tuesday, Mar 15, 2016 09:25 AM PDT


Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton (Credit: AP)

Attention all political pundits. Today affords you a shot at redemption: a chance to turn over a new leaf and even do some real reporting. For months you treated the Democratic race as a foregone conclusion. For weeks you said nearly the same of the Republican race. You were wrong not just in your prophecies but in doing what you do. When you tell any candidate you know he can’t win because you’ve “done the math,” you tell every voter her vote doesn’t count. As both parties teeter in their different ways on the edge of tragic choices, you do democracy itself a great disservice.

No one knows how these races will end. Even polls that persist in underestimating Bernie Sanders show Missouri and Illinois near dead heats and Sanders closing fast in Ohio. Should he win the Land of Lincoln and the Show Me State and exceed expectations in Ohio, it’ll be his second stunning upset in eight days. It turns out Hillary’s one stronghold — other than K Street — is the Old Confederacy. The last two of its 11 states also vote today. Ahead are contests in 24 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands and Guam. With the possible exception of Puerto Rico, she doesn’t hold a commanding lead in a single one. Many resemble states Bernie won going away.

Democracy isn’t algebra. Elections aren’t mere algorithms. A poll tells you more about the person who writes its questions than the few hundred who answer them or the millions who don’t. Polls have short shelf lives because people change their minds; gradually about issues, overnight about other people. Pollsters do message, not policy. They know we’re angry but haven’t a clue why. Here’s a hint: One party denies the reality of climate change, the futility of modern warfare and the humanity of millions of our fellow citizens. Neither will admit that our democracy is dying and taking our middle class with it. We need help making this choice, not predictions as to the choice we’re about to make.

While we’re on the subject of life’s mutability, a word about party rules: The first thing to know about them is that like Captain Jack Sparrow’s pirate’s code, they’re “more like what you’d call guidelines than actual rules.” This is perfectly legal and sometimes even fair. All conventions are gaveled open by temporary chairs under temporary rules because no convention can bind the next one any more than one Congress can bind the next.

So no current poll can tell you how many delegates each candidate will have and no current rule can tell you for sure what those delegates can or will do. Delegates elected in primaries or caucuses will surely vote as pledged. If one candidate has pledged delegates comprising more than 50 percent of all delegates, that should end the discussion and the process. If not, all bets are off.


More: http://www.salon.com/2016/03/15/can_hillary_stay_in_the_race_if_she_loses_ohio_and_missouri_clintons_case_becomes_very_very_tenuous/




33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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WOW !!! - Ladies And Gentlemen... Bill Curry - Salon (Original Post) WillyT Mar 2016 OP
I am waiting for returns nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #1
Outstanding commentary. Thank you. eom kristopher Mar 2016 #2
It's about delegates, not wins dcbuckeye Mar 2016 #3
The candidate with the most popular votes and pledged delegates should be and will be the nominee. DemocratSinceBirth Mar 2016 #4
The Super delegates will not overturn the popular vote or delgate count Gore1FL Mar 2016 #8
Huh? Small primaries and caucuses? SheilaT Mar 2016 #17
Holy shit! Bill effing Curry! hedda_foil Mar 2016 #5
Let us not forget the superdelegates jeepers Mar 2016 #6
There will be an insurrection if they try... SoapBox Mar 2016 #22
The meme of 'Bernie's not a Democrat' is showing up with regularity here on DU. jalan48 Mar 2016 #7
Only if the superdelegates agree to make the party explode on national TV. n/t Gore1FL Mar 2016 #9
What could anyone do about it? jalan48 Mar 2016 #11
There would be no way to unify the party after a stolen nomination, though. Gore1FL Mar 2016 #12
And we would wind up with a Fascist as President. jalan48 Mar 2016 #13
I fear that Clinton will regard this as her Waterloo LiberalLovinLug Mar 2016 #24
hence the expression "cool kidz club"--they think that if they saturate a message board MisterP Mar 2016 #15
It's certainly the meme du jour over the past few days. senz Mar 2016 #31
I am on pins and needles! Go BERNIE ... erlewyne Mar 2016 #10
K&R. We do not want 1968 again. JDPriestly Mar 2016 #14
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #16
K/R!!! LovingA2andMI Mar 2016 #18
If Bernie wins the Rust Belt.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #19
Kick warrprayer Mar 2016 #20
Salon and DU has reached new lows. Metric System Mar 2016 #21
reality is hard for some roguevalley Mar 2016 #23
This article does not reflect reality. Metric System Mar 2016 #27
You mean in numbers of people supporting Hillary? Gore1FL Mar 2016 #26
Let's face it, most "predictions" this election season are not meant to assess the outcome, but GoneFishin Mar 2016 #25
Proud to be the 100th rec! Bubzer Mar 2016 #28
K&R! Duval Mar 2016 #29
If HRC loses IL, MO, and OH, her campaign donation stream is in trouble. No one NCjack Mar 2016 #30
Didn't know who Bill Curry was. Interesting.... think Mar 2016 #32
Oh Yeah... He's Seen It From The Inside... WillyT Mar 2016 #33
 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
1. I am waiting for returns
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:24 PM
Mar 2016

it is starting to look like Sanders will do well tonight given present trends.

dcbuckeye

(80 posts)
3. It's about delegates, not wins
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 03:48 PM
Mar 2016

It's all about delegates now. Not wins and losses in big states. Obama lost all of the big states in 2008. Superdelegates won't abandon HRC for losing a string of small primaries and caucuses coming up.

Gore1FL

(21,165 posts)
8. The Super delegates will not overturn the popular vote or delgate count
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:05 PM
Mar 2016

If they did, the party would explode on national television. The pledged delegate count is much closer. There is opportunity for it to close and reverse.

In the meantime, it is very important that we cast and count votes.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
17. Huh? Small primaries and caucuses?
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:23 PM
Mar 2016

New York? California? I guess I missed the news that those once great states had suffered a huge drop in their populations.

jeepers

(314 posts)
6. Let us not forget the superdelegates
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 04:25 PM
Mar 2016

I doubt that they are going to be impressed enough by Hillarys confederate money, her squeakers in NV Mass and in Iowa or her coming head to head losses against Sanders to hand her the nomination.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
22. There will be an insurrection if they try...
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:47 PM
Mar 2016

To go against the will of voting Americans, all in the name of trying to support the Entrenched Elite Third Way Establishment.

jalan48

(13,909 posts)
7. The meme of 'Bernie's not a Democrat' is showing up with regularity here on DU.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:00 PM
Mar 2016

Would it be possible that he could be denied the party nomination (even if he wins the popular vote and leads in pledged delegates) simply because Super Delegates proclaim that 'He's not a real Democrat'?

jalan48

(13,909 posts)
11. What could anyone do about it?
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:08 PM
Mar 2016

You'll have Neo-Fascist Trump on the other side scaring Democrats into submission.

Gore1FL

(21,165 posts)
12. There would be no way to unify the party after a stolen nomination, though.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:10 PM
Mar 2016

It would be ugly. People would stay home.

jalan48

(13,909 posts)
13. And we would wind up with a Fascist as President.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:14 PM
Mar 2016

It's the old stick and carrot approach to ruling.

LiberalLovinLug

(14,179 posts)
24. I fear that Clinton will regard this as her Waterloo
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:55 PM
Mar 2016

It would be downright embarrassing for her to lose in the same way, and be out in this year when the other side is running bafoons plus knowing at her age this is probably her last chance. If the worst happens, and Superdelegates, urged on behind the scenes by Debbie Downer, anoint The Chosen One over the winner of the popular vote, it will be because Hillary will take the chance on being slightly more palatable overall than The Don to independent voters.

She has already abandoned the progressive wing of the Dem party, and is relying on the forsaken Goldwater old school Republican voters to shore up her vote. So its not much of a stretch to think she'd go "all in" on this def con move. And she may just pull that off if she ramps up the anti-Muslim, pro-Reagan, Socialist scaring, Bible thumping spiel plus whatever other tricks Debbie and her have up their sleeves "just in case".

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
15. hence the expression "cool kidz club"--they think that if they saturate a message board
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:17 PM
Mar 2016

or two with "but he's NOT A DEMOCRAT" reality will spin on its axis and they can have the pure, vicarious GLEE of winning over some Enemy

meanwhile out in meatspace everyone will be "who gives a crap?"

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
31. It's certainly the meme du jour over the past few days.
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 06:29 PM
Mar 2016

When they move from group meme to group meme, one begins to lose the possibility of ever respecting them as people. Not that they care.

If the Hill campaign tries that, then they should expect lawsuits and outrageously negative P.R. for their candidate. She will be universally loathed. If they succeed in stealing the nomination that way, they should prepare for a resounding loss in the GE.

erlewyne

(1,115 posts)
10. I am on pins and needles! Go BERNIE ...
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 05:07 PM
Mar 2016

WillyT I did not realize this was your thread till after I read it!

Give those pundits hell!

Should have realized it was you ...

Gore1FL

(21,165 posts)
26. You mean in numbers of people supporting Hillary?
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 06:05 PM
Mar 2016

In that case, it appears the whole country is reaching new lows.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
25. Let's face it, most "predictions" this election season are not meant to assess the outcome, but
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 06:04 PM
Mar 2016

rather they are intended to control the outcome. The pundit$ are paid by the network owner$ who are much more intere$ted in controlling the outcome of the election than they are in objectively reporting and informing their viewing audience.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
30. If HRC loses IL, MO, and OH, her campaign donation stream is in trouble. No one
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 06:26 PM
Mar 2016

wants to be the last to donate to an exhausted campaign. As of last week, they were not bring in enough income to maintain advertisements to match Bernie2016's spending. Her vendors were complaining publicly about not being paid. And, the Bernie donators are preparing to give him a money shower tonight. What will he get just tonight alone? Probably over $5 million if wins IL, MO, and OH.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
33. Oh Yeah... He's Seen It From The Inside...
Tue Mar 15, 2016, 07:58 PM
Mar 2016
Bill Curry was White House counselor to President Clinton and a two-time Democratic nominee for governor of Connecticut. He is at work on a book on President Obama and the politics of populism.


From article at OP.




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