2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSo what do you think about Bill Clinton posing with man with ballot?
Last edited Wed Mar 2, 2016, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)
Just wondering. Saw this at twitter.
https://twitter.com/BernieTeachers
awake
(3,226 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)Sickening display of arrogance - this idiot cannot be allowed back in the White House.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)The Boston Globe covered the story and provided a link to the petition. Sign it!
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/02/bill-clinton-new-bedford-rally-raises-more-concerns-about-primary-day-violations/pCnoU1awcLGA2E0eERrvoM/story.html
dragonfly301
(399 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)I thought the Clinton side said he "wasn't campaigning"... This paints a really bad image even IF he wasn't "actively campaigning".
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)with a former President and this place is OMG - CRIMES COMMITTED. This has gotten past the point of parody.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)If that's not trying to persuade people then I don't know what is.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)I can't wait to see her get hers.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)A polling place is not the time or place for ex presidents to be taking pictures with people. Not only is there the possibility that it might influence someone's vote, but it is obstructs other voters trying to park and get into the polling place.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)to to the proper authorities. You aren't as powerless as you apparently think you are.
Response to leftynyc (Reply #97)
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leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for the Clintons. That's precious.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)a postage stamp. But I truly think it's adorable that you think otherwise. I've been hearing about the imminent indictment of one or both Clinton's since the 1990s.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)You might ask yourself that--it seems so blatant as to boggle the mind.
Doesn't bother you even a little bit? Doesn't seem a bit ethically challenged?
I have worked at polling places--I can tell you this would be tolerated for a half second where I am.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)as I have yet to hear what crime was committed. OMG he shook hands with voters.......nope, can't seem to get worked up over that.
eomer
(3,845 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)in my opinion, this is a point of bad judgement; if only cause the other guy is literally holding a ballot in the picture. Someone should have realized this kind of photo would only spark the fire hotter.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)VulgarPoet
(2,872 posts)To me, what bothers me is with the way some people will glom onto anything if they feel it serves a point(as I've been guilty of doing before), this feels like a perfectly avoidable pitfall. At least, without the ballot in the frame, y'know?
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)Step outside and get the picture, without the ballot. It's shameful that we have a former president that has no regard for the law. Election laws no less. It doesn't matter how small it is in your mind, it's still against the law, and he knows better. Lovely example.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)about taking that picture?
Response to leftynyc (Reply #92)
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Kittycat
(10,493 posts)I used to be a precinct committeeman, and electioneering and blocking voters access (regardless of candidate or party) is something most democrats I know take pretty seriously. There have been several videos and photos of both posted since yesterday. And btw - campaigns are all trained on this, so ignorance isn't an excuse, even for bullhorn bill.
jillan
(39,451 posts)It's bullcrap if he gets away with this.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)and bring it to the authorities. Complaining on a message board gets you absolutely nowhere.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)We can and will complain on this message board all we want thank you. If you don't like it you can always trash the thread or put us on ignore. I have plenty of people on ignore.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)committed then complaining on a message board is merely a waste of your time. Gather your evidence and present it to the authorities. Otherwise you're simply complaining just to complain - a complete waste of time.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)If you won't put me on ignore, I will do us both a favor and put you on ignore.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If you think complaining on a message board is going to get you what you want, really, knock yourself out.
MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)Social media, which a message board is a form of, is the primary way people get their information these days. It is the perfect way to bring awareness to this type of issue. And the only way for the authorities to even consider whether there was wrong-doing, is unfortunately, public pressure.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)People putting forth evidence a crime was committed will.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)that drives away people from supporting her.
And when we commiserate online when the Clintons engage in these tactics, it's validating. It helps to know that we aren't alone in our disgust.
And lurkers clearly see what's going on too. And they see the dismissive comments from Hillary supporters, such as yourself, who seem to think what Bill Clinton did was clever and cute.
Yes, we realize that we have no case against Bill Clinton. Your post chided a DUer into gathering evidence and giving it to authorities--which we both know will never happen. So, I guess that makes us powerless against what Bill Clinton did at those polling places. There's nothing we can do. Bill Clinton knows that, and you're happy to sharpen that point.
It's that feeling of hopelessness and powerlessness that will continue to repel people from supporting Clinton and further damage the Clinton brand.
You have no effect on our support for Sanders, but you foment a very lasting, negative impact on the candidate that you support.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)what is the problem in gathering the evidence and presenting it to the appropriate authorities? If you're feeling powerless, perhaps it's because you don't have any evidence to present that a CRIME was committed.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)It will encourage more people to register a complaint. That's the beauty of message boards. It allows you to get the message out. Duh.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)complaint? You're a citizen who thinks a law was broken. What's stopping YOU from filing a complaint with the police?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I don't even understand what you could possibly be implying.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for wanting to take a picture together. Or you can stop pretending this was some kind of crime. This place is lunacy today.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)AND BRING IT TO THE POLICE because posting about it on a message board gets you absolutely nothing. Go ahead, make your case and bring it to the authorities if it's something you feel strongly about.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Oh, and you would be surprised how much difference the internet can make on some issues.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)outside a polling place you would feel so fucking intimidated you would.....what? Turn around and go home? Bring your evidence to the authorities.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)And if I shouted "Hey, move it! There's people out here waiting to vote", what do you suppose would happen?
I''d be cuffed and stuffed and hauled off to jail while that piece of shit gets to stand in there and giggle while he breaks the law.
Double standard much?
No, of course there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it, but this kind of shit is why Bernie Sanders is getting so much support. And whether, you realize it or not, its why Trump is getting support.
onenote
(42,767 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)There are laws, the laws apply to everybody, dumbass hillbillies with bullhorns are not exempt.
onenote
(42,767 posts)by the delay.
But if you're telling me that everyone agrees that wasn't the case, then I guess I was wrong.
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)show precincts that would heavily vote for Sanders and Bill went to them and had the polling place closed for an hour or more because most people can't take all day to vote. In New Bedford, the polling place was waiting for Bill to give his stump speech before it opened for voting. How is this legal?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)gotten ARRESTED for wanting to vote? Now that's hilarious.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I would not have gotten arrested for wanting to vote. I would have gotten arrested for heckling a Very Important Person (asshole with bullhorn).
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If a congressional representative can't get arrested for screaming "You Lie" to a current President, I think it's hilarious you think you couldn't heckle a former President. Just what would they have arrested you for? What would be the charge that wouldn't have gotten that cop thrown off the force for stupidity?
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Bill Clinton went to 4 different precincts that highly polled for Bernie, and shut them down for two hours so he could rally for Hillary. People left because they couldn't get the fuck in to vote. Poo Poo it all you want. A Clinton prevented people from voting yesterday and this is a serious issue we need to discuss. If you don't like it, put us on ignore.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If 17000 voters do that, perhaps you'll get someplace. I certainly would be doing more than posting on a board if I felt the way you do. I would be calling local and national newspapers, calling the police, doing SOMETHING rather than complaining where no good will come of it.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Powerful people get away with breaking the law every day.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Well I guess you think complaining on a message board does you loads of good. Good luck with that.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)You are trying to avoid the truth. I'm sure Hillary knew his plans to do this. They are deceptive and untrustworthy. You see the evidence and act like it's nothing. If this was Bernie OMG you Hillary supporters would be having a fit and a half.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)He held a rally right outside. He has power and influence. His wife is running for president. That's all I'm saying. You don't think that means anything?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)other than you think Democratic voters are such ninnies that Bill standing out side a polling station would intimidate them so much they wouldn't vote.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Where? Where is the video of him chasing these people away from the polling station and preventing them from voting. If you can provide that, I'll be interested.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Videos abound on the internet and are not hard to find if you were really interested about this.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)involved. Why aren't they? I've seen videos of him being there but nothing about people not being able to vote. If I were in that line, I would have called the police AND the newspapers.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Are you aware that not all people that go to the polling place are decided? There are undecideds that go there and hope to talk to someone about it.
I didn't say he intimidated anyone either. I did say influence though. Because undecideds are available to be influenced.
Do you have anymore words to put in my mouth?
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)This was a CRIME, but you're fine with it. This is why we can't support her. You may not have respect for yourself or law, but some of us do.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)with the "regular people" wonder if he is hanging out at Walmart today as a Greeter.....
Give me a break
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Scum is what he is.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)coming up with even one voter who was so intimidated by the presence of the former president they either didn't vote or changed their vote. Go ahead and find that voter.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)for the voting process is......but you knew that already.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)morals and respect? Please spare me. A person wanted a picture with a former President (as would I if I were in the same room with him) and you want to make it some sort of fucking crime. It's madness.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)He was there for one reason and one reason only, last minute campaigning.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Listen to these people complain they can't get past the rally to vote.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)was being let in to vote. Showing a line doesn't prove a damn thing. Why weren't the police called? Why didn't anyone call the local AND national newspapers. If a former President was actually blocking people from getting into a polling place, THAT WOULD BE NEWS.
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/03/02/bill-clinton-new-bedford-rally-raises-more-concerns-about-primary-day-violations/pCnoU1awcLGA2E0eERrvoM/story.html
Orsino
(37,428 posts)But a breathtakingly poor decision by a man who once knew better, but is now too rich to care.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)felt the same way?
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)He brought his own sound system.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)I'm fine with him outside but this does seem like poor judgement to me. Not necessarily illegal... But ugh.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)To me that's not a big deal, we had a Trump
Supporter at my town with a bull horn. He was within the 150 feet, technically. My town went for Sanders, and Trump.
Svafa
(594 posts)He was able to use his celebrity to his advantage, and his presence created crowds that very may well have prevented people from getting in to vote. Not everyone can stand around in line for two hours on a Tuesday.
jalan48
(13,886 posts)Look for Bill to appear at a polling place near you. Get in line early if you hope to have your pic snapped with the big dog!
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)...got the biggest applause from the crowd
Right--should we see this Billy Rah Rah performance at other tight races?
jillan
(39,451 posts)worker, or the police/security -
Why is he going to get away with this?
onenote
(42,767 posts)950 CMR 53.03 (d) Activities at Polling Place. Within 150 feet of a polling place as defined in 950 CMR 53.03(18)(c), no person shall solicit votes for or against, or otherwise promote or oppose, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election.
Not sure where you get idea that no one who isn't "a voter, a poll worker or the police/security" can get within 150 feet of a polling place. That would make it difficult for someone to take a taxi to vote, don't you think?
In fact, under Mass law, as in other jurisdictions, a "guard rail" is supposed to be established within the polling place within which the ballot box/voting machines are located. Who can be within that area and when is restricted. Even voters can't be in that area if there are more than a certain number of people inside the area waiting to vote. However outside that space, there are essentially no restrictions, other than restrictions on people engaged in the specifically identified electioneering activities listed above and people who are deemed "disorderly". This is because, in the United States, it is generally the rule that elections are to be held in public view.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)or at least a very public slap official slap on the wrist for illegal interferencee with the voting process
TBF
(32,098 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)Just fucking criminal. Clear violation of the law.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)If I was anywhere near the Big Dog I would ask to have my photo taken with him.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Even breaking the rules. Even keeping people from voting.
It's the Clinton way.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Clinton has gotten more people to the polls in one state than Sanders got in all of his big wins yesterday.
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)Just talking about the Queen and the rest of her tribe the GOP. I HATE the Klintons.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Historic NY
(37,453 posts)like notes.....I didn't think there were a bazillion amount of people competing in the Democratic primary.
valerief
(53,235 posts)http://www.eagletribune.com/campaign2016/news/massachusetts-voters-face-more-than-presidential-candidates-on-tuesday-s/article_7121b838-a73b-5525-8f83-bd4597c23e12.html
Google it and learn, Mr. Favorite Group Hillary Clinton.
valerief
(53,235 posts)the law for Clinton to be campaigning inside. And we know Clintons don't break the law.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)angrychair
(8,733 posts)If this had been anyone else, Jane (Bernie's wife) or Rubio's wife or tRump's wife or a high-profile surrogate for any of the same, the Clinton group would be on fire right now, burning down DU to make their point.
Truly, tRump once said he could shoot someone on 5th Ave and still win. I would offer that with Clinton's supporters, she could do the same and it would not matter.
From Bill's very questionable election day behavior to HRC being investigated for a host of issues related to her private email server, they did nothing wrong and it's all a right wing conspiracy. That go to line is getting old and isn't going to work this time.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)It is a serious ethical violation. One more reminder of the sleeziness that would return to the WH if Hillary is elected.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Svafa
(594 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)as it does not apply within 150 feet from a polling place?
Svafa
(594 posts)the fact that there are exceptions to freedom of speech.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Correct
Svafa
(594 posts)to challenge the constitutionality of this election law, that is a whole different can of worms, and I have no idea how it would play out.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)ward of Philly.
Peregrine Took
(7,417 posts)Those grinning Clintoon mugs - acting like they own the place, every day, day in day out....omg.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I'm not kidding
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)Christie's "hostage" photo making the Internet's rounds today.
madamesilverspurs
(15,809 posts)pole vaulting over mouse turds.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)But of course the Clintons get away with everything.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Todays_Illusion
(1,209 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)No way in hell this woukd be okay in the reverse.
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)Was this pic taken at a polling place or did the guy carry what seems to be a ballot to a different location?
People were up in arms about workers at the NV Repub caucus wearing Trump gear even though it was perfectly legal. This may be no different.
It's shameful how the presumption of guilt (rather than innocence) has pervaded this thread.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Here is the MA law:
"Within 150 feet of a polling place no person shall solicit votes for or against, or otherwise promote or oppose, any person or political party or position on a ballot question, to be voted on at the current election. No campaign material intended to influence the vote of a voter in the ongoing election, including campaign literature, buttons, signs, and ballot stickers, may be posted, exhibited, circulated, or distributed in the polling place, in the building where it is located, on the building walls, on the premises where the building stands, or within 150 feet of an entrance door to the building. ( 950 CMR 53.03(18); 54.04.22)"
It was at a MA polling place right outside the entrance.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511386461
Paper Roses
(7,475 posts)where did the ballot come from? Hummmm, if it smells like a skunk, it probably is.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)A lot at Twitter and some posted here. If I run across them I will link.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)onenote
(42,767 posts)Mass law distinguishes between the area within 150 feet of a polling place, the polling place itself, and the area within the polling place where the voting machines/ballot boxes are located. It is not unlawful for anyone to be within 150 feet of the polling place or inside polling place (but not within the demarcated area surrounding the ballot boxes/voting machines). This is because voting in Mass (as in most places) is held in public view. However, within the demarcated area surrounding the voting machines/ballot boxes, access is strictly limited to voters, security, election officials (with an exception for children if they will not be disruptive). Outside the demarcated area (whether inside the 150 foot zone or inside the polling place) the only restrictions are the specific electioneering restrictions and restrictions on someone who is deemed to being disorderly.
The rules vary all over the place. For example, in my state (Virginia), where my father, brother and I have all worked as election officials at various times over the years, it is lawful for a voter to wear a shirt, hat, button with the name of a candidate or a political slogan while they vote. However, a non-voter may not be within a set distance of the polling place wearing such apparel or button.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He went inside. He posed with pictures. He kept people in line waiting to vote.
How does your conscience let you defend this.
onenote
(42,767 posts)I don't think it was appropriate. Whether or not it was illegal depends on what the law says and what he did.
I've seen it all sorts of inaccurate information here. I've seen it said that what he did was a felony. (No, if it was illegal it was at most a misdemeanor). I've seen it said that its illegal for any non-voter to be inside the polling place. (No, as my post explains).
Kall
(615 posts)depends on what the definition of "is" is.
Dems to Win
(2,161 posts)Keithmanek
(5 posts)It's proof of a crime. This are the games and tricks that make people distrust the clintons. This is why trust is so low for them.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)The Hillers and Elites would scream for prison (Prison4Profit) time.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)She's not a former President of the United States.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)And maximum security, too. No "club fed" nonsense. This is IMPORTANT.
FreedomRain
(413 posts)not going to speak to illegality, not enough information on laws and circumstances about this.
But, it was not a smart political move, would have been more effective for his wife's campaign had he done his photo op the day before, and there would be no cloud of impropriety.
xloadiex
(628 posts)Why was this done in Ma? It's because they knew they were hanging on by a thread. It was 100% intentional, laws be damned. "We're The Clintons." I would love to see this wife cheating, election cheating, pal of Jeffery Epstein, face some repercussions for this.