2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders is going to have to speak on more issues affecting black people.
He's right on the issues, but he has to speak to black in a different way than white people or else he's in trouble. I'm a Bernie supporter, but I won't sugarcoat anything.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)tides don't lift all boats.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)How do we achieve PARITY under President Sanders, that is his question to answer. And we need specific policy. Got to be able to see it's well thought out.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)black youth.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Grown folks don't really listen to kids. We still old fashioned in that way.
The bulk of voters are between 30 and 65.
Getting 18- 28, only gets ten years, the years that they don't vote as much.
Need to get people with children. Women, we vote more.
If he can draw me, i am the archetype. And i honestly have issues with every politician on earth.
How is free college going to help me now? I'm in and paying. Cant get rid of my loans. So they get free and I get to pay? Nope. Not happnin. I pay they pay. I aint rich. Many if them are middle class and up.
Black millennias went for occupy more than the rest. Meh. Just dont care. Looked like upper middle class kids tripping bout loans we could not even QUALIFY FOR. WPP.
Free jr college makes more sense. If you dedicated you can pay those last two.
More accessible trade schools. Free. Revitalizing our communities. Pumping capital into the black owned businesses. Oh but that involves capitalism.
This is why. We are more sympatheitc with socialism but in practice capital rules us too. It is needed in this society and we need it more than most.
Interest free home loans to the poor and working class? Free childcare involves training so many more people and regulating facilities that we do not have.
His plans are too easy to pick apart. Not solid and no game plan. Conditions needs to be perfect to even give them a small shot. Serendipity.
We do not do that pie in the sky stuff. Solid game plan.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)are unlikely.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Get into a beef with Meek Mill and he wins the black youth vote.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)winterwar
(210 posts)Killer Mike is probably the most popular rapper out that focuses on political and social issues. He has been a big Bernie Sanders supporter for a few months now. He has posted a lot about Bernie on his twitter and instagram. I'm a huge Killer Mike fan, his records are incredible.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Sorry. I have no idea why people think he is some superstar with black people. Heck, we care more about Drake, and he's canadian. Many rappers focus on political and social issues. That's what rap started out as. 'Dont push me cause I' close to the edge. We're trying hard not to lose our heads, ah ha ha ha." That is discussing poverty in the Ghetto. Police violence. Society. Our place in it. As do many songs. Rap is political. Even gangster rap. Some people do not listen to what is being said properly because they do not have the vernacular to understand the layers of meaning. The nuances.
Now Hip Hop? Blingy, but still catches the state of Black america. So, I think maybe you need to go back and look at the History of Rap. Tupac was talking politics and social justice in his stuff 23 years ago and is still more popular than killer mike.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)2Pac didn't care for Bill Clinton at call.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I watched him on that canadian show. Hilarious. But he was serious tho. So funny to see him.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)he has a lot of family in the south.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I got fam there too. Lots. I think we all do, huh? Might be related
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)One guy but I was like what? I wanna go there.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)We went west. Something about a bank and the FBI
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)winterwar
(210 posts)I replied to your message, I thought I was replying to the other person in the thread. Anyway, just to clarify, I wasn't implying he's a superstar. I said as far as rappers that make politically focused music, he's probably the most poplar out at this point. I realize that Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five are political in nature. But I was speaking of rappers that are popular currently. Yes Drake is very popular, but I don't know a person on earth who considers his work politically focused. I work in music. Killer Mike sells out show after show. There isn't any other politically focused hip hop artists that can match his current success. I have booked/attended hundreds of hip hop shows. Unfortunately, some of the best artists to ever touch the mic can't fill clubs anymore. Killer Mike sells out clubs nightly on his tours, and his tickets go for $30. I'm judging popularity from a business standpoint. He's on an independent label, and sells a lot of records. His fans are extremely loyal, and they like him for his content. He is popular without any radio play, and has never tried to crossover into the mainstream. Drake makes radio music about "Truffle Butter," Killer Mike makes music destroying Ronald Reagan's legacy. Regardless, I wasn't trying to reply to you last night. It was late.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And social messaging
Response to winterwar (Reply #120)
Post removed
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)That idea hurt mybrain
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That made me laugh.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)rap was crap and hip hop artists were all thugs ... before May 2015.
But that changed ... Now, rap was crap and hip hop artists are all thugs; unless they are Bernie positive.
Ain't evolving a beautiful thing?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Thank you.
It's going to take all of us to make things work for all of us, and understanding where you and POC are coming from is extremely important.
We need to work together.
Tex-wyo-dem (big time Bernie supporter)
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I do think its too late. But there are ither elections in the future and strategies can be put in place to build a movement by looking at what did not work this time. It can be done right.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)they have no connection to the Clinton's, it's not too late for them.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Possible but difficult. Of course Hillary could screw herself by saying something stupid, well more like Bill. LMFAO.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)She refuses to fuck up again
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)slim chance he wins South Carolina.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)They get in the way and make a mess.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)But he's not. Slow as molasses.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)grammatical error.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)We're listening.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 10, 2016, 09:44 AM - Edit history (1)
Black people do not have a great love for the Clinton's but they know them. Bernie has little to know name recognition, so there's no trust.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)How about a college education and single payer health care. How about eliminating the death penalty and prison reform? I don't where you have been but Sanders has been talking about it all along.
Or would it be better if he use the words "for black people" specifically after every statement?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)He asked a question, I answered it. And asked another question, which apparently didn't merit a reply. But thank your for your snark. It's obvious you've no legitimate answer either.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Because you just can't seem to help yourself. You're angry and you like taking it out on me.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Remember, it takes one to know one.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)influence your decision, then that's on you. You asked a question, I gave an answer. You didn't bother to answer mine. Why does what he will do for POC need to be separate from what he's wants to do for everyone? Labels are what divides us and it makes me question whether you are sincere in your post.
So tell me, exactly what was wrong with my answer to you instead of saying I should be happy you're a Bernie guy. Because there was nothing there that you should have taken offense at.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)MisterP
(23,730 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)enigmatic
(15,021 posts)That's why Harry Belafonte endorsing Bernie along w/ Ben Jealous is so yuuge.
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)That's big enough for me on a certain front, personal, outstanding.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)I'm not sure what he has to do. I do hope POC listen to his message though and give his ideas a chance.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I keep an ear on black Twitter, and it's all in there, as well as the seemingly neverending problem with trolls who've latched onto the Sanders campaign and are spending their time harassing black people online. Sanders has denounced them, but has no real way to stop trolls from trolling.
Black people need to feel comfortable that he actually will DO things for them in office, not just say things now to win votes, then conveniently forget about them. I've heard a lot of folks say they aren't exactly thrilled with Hillary, but that they think she will at least do small things for them if they support her now. They'll get 'something'. They just don't know Sanders well enough to trust that he'll deliver on what he's saying now, especially because they're not hearing enough to make them feel he plans to spend much time on issues that affect them specifically.
I think he needs to get more specific on how he's going to address CampaignZero issues, and what he will for black people beyond police-related issues, that can be done through executive orders. Let them know exactly what he can do, and what he WILL do for them.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)If he is going to beat Hillary who got 19% of the AA vote in SC in 2008. Against a guy who they said wouldn't get the AA vote while she had all of the major AA endorsements.
All sounds very familiar.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)She'll tell you I'm all Bernie. You would be wise to listen if Bernie wants to cut into HRC's massive lead. His campaign better listen.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Bernie has talked about addressing racial injustice, holding raciss killer-cops accountable,
and repairing the broken criminal justice system that disperportionatly incarcerates AAs.
Here is a long clip of Bernie speaking in SC for like 1 hour & 15 minutes, and and at about
58.30 minutes in, he focuses on addressing racial injustice, holding racist killer cops accountable
and repairing the broken criminal justice system.
I'd be super-interested in hearing how you think Bernie can improve his message re: racial
injustice and other issues important to the AA community. Feel free to either reply here or
with a PM.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)will be better for us.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)I appreciate that. Are you thinking more of a town hall type setting? with 100-200 folks?
And even with rallies, I'm always a little put-off how Bernie (even in SC) leaves his
discussion about racial injustice to happen towards the end of his talk, rather than
weaving it into his message as an integral part of it, or even leading with it.
My imagination is that Bernie feels he needs to keep focused on income inequality, which
effects ALL of us, and stuff like $15 mim. wage which also effects us all; BUT I truly
believe there needs to be some kind of fusion & integration (if you will) of his messages
re Income inequality and his message re racial equality; such that the race factor is not
relegated to the last 10 minutes of a 1 hour 15 minute speech.
Do you agree? or where do you agree, or maybe not agree?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)How intimate? Candidates maintain insane schedules and need to maximize resources, reach as broad an audience as possible.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Why are getting upset? We're supporting the same candidate.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I'm trying to understand, and so far, all I'm getting from this OP are "relationships" and "friendships." Considering the situation is dire for far too many, perhaps it's time for new "relationships" and "friendships."
TheBlackAdder
(28,167 posts).
It creates a hostile environment that shuts down conversation instead of working though them.
====
I'm not sure if that's the reader's projection, their insecurities, or if it's a ploy to diminish the poster.
But, almost every thread involves some aspersion that another person is angry or upset, where there is no basis for it.
.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Twitter-level crap, but thankfully DU remains impervious to most of it.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)If people tell you you need to do X, it helps you if you do X, and not simply blow it off if you want to build such.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)And it CERTAINLY doesn't help to respond, "But you're asking {Candidate "Y" do it!!!"
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I want to know EXACTLY what the Clintons have done for AAs to explain the loyalty. Is the Clinton Foundation funneling major coin to save Ferguson, inner-city Baltimore, dead Rust Belt cities, etc.? How badly have those areas been hurt by Clinton-approved trade agreements and school-to-prison pipelines?
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Quit focusing on the issues. That doesn't work. You gotta build trust. That means... uhh... hmm, being a Clinton. That is the key.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)He's met with leaders of BLM in intimate settings, he's gone to HBCs and held smaller rallies and gone to a few churches, as well.
Is there something more he needs to do?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)...with a message but it seems tailored to a certain crowd.
Right now in the SEC states Sanders numbers are around the GOP level...
Like IA its not because he's not known...
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...also, which parts of this do you think are a problem?
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
jfern
(5,204 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I wonder if the anti-establishment, "Live Free or Die" motto extends to the African-Americans choosing to live in N.H.>
onecaliberal
(32,777 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)us out. I believe in Bernie, but I'm in the minority in the black community.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)It makes no sense.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Our view of his is independent of our view of her.
Attacking for being on her side makes people automatically pull back. We need reason to like him, not reasons to hate her. Hating her does not turn us to him. I hated her.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...you're clearly passionate about it. I'd like to hear your thoughts on Bernies thoughts about racial justice.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)When I saw it it reminded me of project zero which had just come out. I figure he modeled it after that.
I think he has a good platform and now needs to bring his message to us and tell us how he will help BLACK people. Not, 'blacks will benefit most!'
But actually talk about and to us specifically like he thought about it.
See, he has the platform that proves that these programs do not reach us. He can see that money is funnelled to 'good (white)' schools from 'bad (black) schools. Teachers treat kids differntky based on race. Cops. Landlords. Office admin. Hospitals. Etc. how do we get our share with all these people finding ways to leave us out. Drug felons cant get food stamps. Why? Made drugs illegal to lock up blacks, now we can starve them if they are not in jail to make money for the corp.
How does he reconcile the racism with the way the programs are administered? How does he help with discrimination now? Does he notice it? Does he see? Or is he still running this color blind plan that wont be color blind as soon as color shows up to collect.
People say it will be run fairly. Nothing ever has before so why trust it? It never gets run sans racism/discrimination.
jfern
(5,204 posts)"
&feature=youtu.be&t=1h8m15s"Bernie supports legalizing marijuana.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)There is much more
jfern
(5,204 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)From the cities -
In addition to the physical violence faced by too many in our country we need to look at the lives of black children and address some difficult facts. Black children, who make up just 18 percent of preschoolers, account for 48 percent of all out-of-school suspensions before kindergarten. We are failing our black children before kindergarten. Black students are expelled at three times the rate of white students. Black girls are suspended at higher rates than all other girls and most boys. According to the Department of Education, African-American students are more likely to suffer harsh punishments suspensions and arrests at school. Black students attend schools with higher concentrations of first-year teachers when compared with white students. Black students are more than three times as likely to attend schools where fewer than 60 percent of teachers meet all state certification and licensure requirements.
So he sees the issues we have from pre to high school.
Now this -
Communities of color also face the violence of economic deprivation. Lets be frank: neighborhoods like those in west Baltimore, where Freddie Gray resided, suffer the most. However, the problem of economic immobility isnt just a problem for young men like Freddie Gray. Despite hard-work and the will to get ahead, millions of Americans spend their entire lives struggling to survive on the economic treadmill.
He then speaks to the mortgage crisis. However, he doesn't address why these were neighborhoods tat were accessible to black people. IE FDR's housing administration which assisted with the expansion of Mr. Crow's segregation.
L
et us not forget: It was the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street that nearly drove the economy off of a cliff seven years ago. While millions of Americans lost their jobs, homes, life savings and ability to send their kids to college, African-Americans who were steered into expensive subprime mortgages were the hardest hit.
I don't disagree with who was the hardest hit - but Wall Street merely took advantage of a situation that George Romney lost his job for pointing out during the Nixon Administration. Wall Street is no different than the share cropping farmer - the laws were present to allow the abuse. They were just trying to make a buck off of a group's misery - and the racism at the core of what America is allowed the laws (or lack thereof) in he first place.
Then -
ADDRESSING ECONOMIC VIOLENCE
We need to give our children, regardless of their race or income, a fair shot at attending college. Thats why all public universities should be made tuition free. We should pay for that with a tax on Wall Street speculators.
How does he prepare these kids? September 2017? He points out that from pre School on black children are at an unfair disadvantage. What specifically happens - what is the plan to shore up our pre, elementary, middle and high schools? Is it a money grab from middle class and wealthy districts to provide economic parity? What if NJ does it without Fed Gov - how does he got to the future legislators in Trenton and get them to legislate - We are grabbing property tax dollars from the town because D.C says we have to give money to Biloxi. To offset this loss we are raising your personal income taxes and and property taxes even more. We are instituting a sales tax on clothing purchases. Your Federal Tax dollars are not enough. Sorry folks in Camden and Newsrk - we realize you are struggling under our cost of living but you now make $20 an hour, you are now Rich according to Fed Gov and so your small gain must now be sent out of state.
I know those assholes in Trenton will do it just like that. :
We must invest $5.5 billion to create 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans who face high unemployment rates and job-training opportunities for hundreds of thousands of young adults. We should pay for that by ending the loophole allowing Wall Street hedge fund managers to pay a lower tax rate than nurses or truck drivers.
I don't disagree with closing the loophole - but will those job training opportunities be part of the free college plan - or would he allow my state to keep more tax revenue to implement a BOCES program in par with New York's (the one in place in the 80's and 90's). Could we do that first? Before we implement free college - can we first address the needs in public high schools? The ones that have been neglected? The ones still being marginalized by a Housing Policy implemented in 1934 whose impact is felt on our inner cities today?
Business owners in high cost of living states need tax breaks as they move towards the higher minimum wage model because it needs to be at least $20 in NJ, NY, CA etc etc. The better jobs are centered around major cities with office complex bordering the burbs. We cheated ourselves out of a solid public transportation system. So those black folks in the inner cities will need access to those jobs. There's two ways - car purchase. Or live close enough to the city to take public transport. Either way - renting an apartment or paying for a vehicle is going to eat out of the $20 very quickly in my state. $20 minimum wage needs to be subsidized for small business owners in wealthy states.
We must pass federal legislation to ensure pay equity for women.
We must prevent employers from discriminating against applicants based on criminal history by banning the box.
We must promote policies to give the formerly incarcerated an opportunity for education, including expanding the Second Chance Pell Pilot Program and reentry programs.
We need to ensure access to quality affordable childcare for working families, especially for parents who work non-traditional hours.
We must fundamentally re-write our trade policies and rebuild factories that were closed as a result of bad trade deals
He should drop the last section I excerpted and speak to the mid way.
What is in between free college and pre school. Nothing addresses that 34 years that put black people into redlined communities. Then address that vocational training. Can he state - will his long term supporters support -
Vocational Training. September 2017 every under Performing inner city school district will have HVAC certification, Solar Panel certification (younger nephew paying $20 K in tandem with attending Rutgers on academic scholarship so I know the cost), soldering, CNC lathe, industrial welding etc etc. We will pay for it for a Federal Tax across the board regardless of your income or wealth Level because we as a country must "repair" what was broken during the New Deal which really was designed to benefit only white Americans.
I'm not letting Clinton off the hook either. However you linked to Senator Sanders site so that is what I addressed.
There is 13 years of education missing in his racial justice plan and he's letting middle class white Americans 50 and older off the hook. They shouldn't be.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)I'd like an answer from the person I presented the question to, since he seems to be posting in good faith. I want to know what -- EXACTLY -- POC think Hillary Clinton will do for them.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You just bring me up so much I though you must want to know from me.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)I know they won't do shit, but most black people are cautious we've heard how people wanted to help us before but then when it came time to do something we're placed on the back burner.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Aren't they a bit stale after nearly three decades? How much has the Obama Administration done for POC? Add another 8 years. How much more incrementalism, pragmatism, whatever are people expected to put up with?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)The Clinton's are friends with a lot of respected black leaders, believe me that matters.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)That makes absolutely no sense. I mean, seriously, we're talking decades, and things are pretty dire for many. Why continue on this path? It can't just be friendships.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)either.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)how black people feel and how to connect with us.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)She'll get their vote because the Clintons are known quantities?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... in the middle of Sanders message he dogs Obama every step he gets.
Bigga, West and now Belafonte?!!?
Sanders lost IA PoC by 25% after spend 3 months there for a reason; his message is reaching out but to a narrow sector of Americans
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)relationship with black people that no other president will ever enjoy.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... the historically gerrymandered congress on the Obama admin and the current "establishment" and in his whole spiel acts like "revolution" or 3 trillion people standing outside of Mitch McConnells window will sway his vote....
it wont...
A gerrymandered congress promises mathematically they don't have to care about the people outside of their windows
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Street and others. He should have fought for a public option, but the truth is he gave it way at the beginning because the insurance industry didn't want the competition.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)...and I could care less if the money came directly or indirectly for Sanders from any of those organizations he's the one that is wearing the robe of purity and calling everyone else's garbs stained.
People were expecting an FDR congress which was over 70% average dem for almost 20 years for FDR ...
But never wanted to WORK for an FDR congress, Obamas congress was with 1 controlling vote for 59..... DAYS!!
So no... there was going to be no public option relative to the support for it in congress... it wasn't there.
There will be no single payer relative to the support for it in congress.... its' not there..
There will be no free college relative to the support for it in congress.... its not there
There will be no working for the American people from Congress, they don't care... they don't have to.. they're gerrymandered and no amount of coattails, revolution... hurricanes or money is going to change that for another 7 years
Also, Sanders doesn't even live up to his own purity test... Clinton did herself a favor and exposed this during the other debate... not only that but ...
Neither can most of dem candidates...
Clintons made 150 million from speaking fees from different groups.. so the bankers that pays them 600k is supposed to have pull!!?!??!?!??!
REALLY?!!?!!? That's Sanders marketing, that's not good perspective...
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Lloyd Blankfein is all Hillary and Jeb.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... they're worth 150 million combined!!
To say the banks 2 million will sway them is an insult at best.
"here's 20 bucks man, vote for big pharma"... come on...
Obama by the time he was prez was worth 5 million even though 2 years earlier he was still paying off his school loans...
These people don't give a damn about their little amounts of money...
What's weird is people who do NOT deal in that kind of money don't realize how little it is
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)great chance of winning. Kasich pretending to be reasonable would pull a lot of votes.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... people will stay home... that's one of the arguments made with Obama.
I don't think people are going to stay home with Clinton either
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Fix the gerrymandering first. And that whole "when Democrats vote, Democrats win!" spiel? First, Duh. Anyone who was paying attention AT ALL knew this already. And then, guess which Democrats they target most gerrymandering? Black Democrats. They use micro-targeting data, go house by houses even, to cage the black communities and households into single districts so they won't dilute the other districts. And then they use the majorities they win as a result to do things like institute poll taxes (called voter ID now) which also disproportionately affect POC.
You want progressive revolution, fix that first and deal with the voting rights problems. Angry college students shaking their fists at the Tea Party will not work.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Democrats win. That is one of the reasons Reps go to such huge lengths to disenfranchise them. And it worries me a great deal that Sanders seems more focused on getting right-leaning white swing voters than fighting for the rights of people who are already solidly in the same corner.
Blacks and liberal whites vote together, we can own the board and pass really progressive legislation. We don't even need the swings if we play the cards right. I hate swing voters anyway. High maintenance, unreliable and not really in the same corner.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)socialism? No, they lean to him by themselves. Bernie is not tailoring his message to them. His message is unchanged since Ottoman Empire broke down.
"Blacks and liberal whites vote together, we can own the board and pass really progressive legislation." - this is exactly what Bernie means by "political revolution". He knows that right-wingers are more likely to vote. A political revolution will bring people who gave up on the franchise, like people of color, disaffected youth, and poor white people. I want that to happen.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)He does not tailor his message and it has never changed means he hasn't learned anything new. Much has changed sine the Ottoman Empire broke down. If he want to go from representing a small, homogeneous state to this huge, ungainly, proud, beautiful, wildly diverse, nutball country of ours, his message should reflect that.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)isn't it time to try a different approach?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... and don't realize how that endeared a lot of middle class and upper middle class blacks to the Clintons while the poor at least got to go to college.
The Clintons being corporatist sell outs is a Sanders marketing scheme and is not reality
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)abroad. Black people were decimated by Clinton policies. Bernie needs to provide evidence of that and why his policies are better. The TPP is NAFTA on HGH.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... and her plans to help poor Children during the 90s.
Their resume is established and reality, ...
That's her slogan, her resume is reality and well documented and proven. That She accepted 1/30th of her yearly salary in moneys from doing the same job a tone of other dem pols (including Sanders) has done isn't going to change that.
That people are dismissing it is what has happened to the marginalized since the beginning of time.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)we're not going to go down that road again, are we?
I'm being told in other replies that the relationships the Clintons have with the AA community is the reason for the loyalty. What I'm not hearing is that it's sound policy or positive results or lives improving, but "friendships."
Let's say Hillary wins and does a big, fat nothing for the AA community during her tenure. Will the community remain loyal?
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... Bills tenure.
I think there's one more angle to the relationship that I think Sanders is missing...
Long gone are the days where Dem pols run into CoC and promise the world with no means of getting it through congress and then minimize our voices and votes afterwards.
Sanders has 2 weeks to come up with Solid plans
There was a focus group of SC voters on CNN tonight and all but 5 were Clinton voters... the one girl said in the last week she switched for that very aformentioned reason; no plan of getting all the free stuff past congress.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)that the Clintons have a long history with the black community. I guess it depends on what info people think is important.
I thought it was a huge slip when Bernie suggested Mike Brown would be alive if he was going to college. Big fuck up. My mind was blown to find out he was not aware that people are going got jail for not being able to pay tickets. I'm glad he started listening. But he started out addressing the issues with some serious blind spots.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)B. He doesn't "dog" Obama. He, like most of us, wishes he'd gone further and used the bully pulpit more, but that's a slight criticism, not a "dogged" one.
Response to SMC22307 (Reply #66)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)but will read it tomorrow. Er, later today!
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... relationships count and like the poster said the black community has had so many people come in, promise with no means of getting what they need done and then minimize us later.
Clintons, in their ever so imperfect way.. have done none of that
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Private Prison Lobbyists Are Raising Cash for Hillary Clinton
https://theintercept.com/2015/07/23/private-prison-lobbyists-raising-cash-hillary-clinton/
Hillary Clinton Says She'll End Private Prisons, Stop Accepting Their Money
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-private-prisons_us_562a3e3ee4b0ec0a389418ec
"Imperfect," indeed. Do you trust them on that issue? I don't.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1185489
Those numbers are ASTOUNDING. And I'm still baffled as to why AAs put so much faith in the Clintons.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)people who have been abused for centuries do not trust easily. Bernie has to work at it. His message is right, I think, but he needs to invest personal time to gain TRUST.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)your input. So many of us do not understand how to work through this.
The anger at the abuse is the easy part to understand. At least for me as my family is of mixed race and both the black and Native American side have experienced that.
What I really do not understand is how a politician like Bernie who has a schedule that seems he never stops can go about investing time to gain trust.
I did this in my own relationships with my family members but it took a lot of time to get where they all trust me to the point that we share our joys and our problems. I do not think there is a politician alive who has that time when they are running for president.
And as to relationships. What kind of relationships? I saw him in Duluth with Keith Ellison this month. And I know he has hired a woman who is an expert in criminal justice. He has worked in the past with some of the greatest civil rights leaders we have ever had and he often works with the Black Congressional Caucus. He has worked with the BLM group to write specific goals toward justice. I love what happens when he and Killer Mike are together. And this is just the beginning of the list.
He is campaigning and never in one place more than a couple of hours.
I do not understand how he can do much more. And I do not see Hillary doing any differently.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)by attending black churches and fish frys buys them a lot of good will. She had all the time on her hands when she was First Lady to cultivate relationships. A lot of black Congress members owe them for campaigning on their behalf. Bernie was in the great white north doing his daily work. He just does not have the exposure she does.
Black people know that Clintons have hurt them with their policies. But it's the devil they know.
Just think how long it took for them to embrace Obama.
Bernie has a deficit in this sense. But his heart is good, and if he speaks honestly as always to racial issues on Friday, he will make significant gains.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Bernie is giving this campaign his all -- how much more "work" and "personal time" is he supposed to give? I can't imagine maintaining that sort of schedule and I'm a couple of decades younger!
My question remains... why do AAs trust the Clintons?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Bernie has to win support in his own right, and not worry about how or why Hillary did.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)histories and priorities. When people refer to "all boats", they fail to realize it has never literally resulted in "all boats" being lifted. Tunnel vision.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)And I'd wager no Sanders supporter thinks otherwise. He's out there every day busting his hump, trying to do just that.
onecaliberal
(32,777 posts)TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...from his Racial Justice issues page he should focus on, what would they be?
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Jobs white felons are more likely to be hired than black people with no criminal history at all.
Police violence, the police are killing black people without punishment.
cali
(114,904 posts)on those issues?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Some pledges for when he's in office would be good, things that he can do via executive order. Probably wouldn't hurt if he could get some legislation introduced now as well, for thing that can't be done via EO.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...and said his justice department would investigate all police shootings, particularly when unarmed victims are involved.
JudyM
(29,192 posts)this. The wrong people have been in charge. These cops, that's BS.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Do they go far enough? Or do they need more work? Or does he just need to get his message out better?
I appreciate your perspective.
flamingdem
(39,308 posts)so it's a getting to know you kind of thing.
Rev. Al will vouch for him I believe. They're having a meeting tomorrow, same place Al met Obama.
Bernie is extremely solid. He's from the Old Left. The very idealistic left that would never be racist, at least those battles were fought in the 60s and 70s. He was a part of that.
Bernie is no BS. I think that he will convince. I think Hillary is viable as well but I'm now worried that she can't pull it off.
Bernie has to convince all of us dems that he can pull it off. I'm not sure it's in any of our hands anymore. So many Americans are ignorant and only think about lowering their taxes and keeping immigrants out. Somehow we all have to unite, the stakes are so high.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)flamingdem
(39,308 posts)I'm not sure how he will develop his message.
He's a true progressive, that's for sure.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)than he had in either of those states. I would fully expect him to speak not a different message but one that is more personal to the audience. He will face the same situation in NV with Hispanic audiences.
sellitman
(11,605 posts)All he has to do is continue being Bernie.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)he spoke against the profit-prison complex.
I do think that is not just the correct platform, but a very appealing one for someone who wants to earn the support of African-Americans. And I don't mean, to pander, but to show AA's that he sees the racism for what it so very obviously is.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Bernie comes across as someone with tremendous empathy for others -- all others. Hillary? Not so much...
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)I know people who worked for him, back-in-the-day. He really does feel the pain.
Bernie comes across TO YOU as someone with empathy.That is a FEELING that you have.
I see an old cranky guy who is going to mansplain a whole bunch and then leaves or looks at his phone when it is my turn to talk. To me, Hillary looks like someone who at least listens, and is therefor more empathetic and compassionate. That is my FEELING.
For the record, feelings are not facts, and yours are not more valid than mine or anyone else's.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)to reciprocate the rather nasty tone of your post.
You managed to squeeze in ageism and misandry in that post... well done. When Obama speaks, is it "mansplaining," or just when the "old cranky guy" does it? And congrats at showing restraint by leaving out "white."
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)Not to mention Hillary's continued support for the death penalty.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bernie voted for that bill, no disrespect intended.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)That is not true
Listen. Dogging Hillary does not make Sanders more appealing. The case needs to be made in favor of him not against her. It's a tactic that pushes people away and sets them in their view.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)for profit prisons illegal.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)...and quite another to give details.
What should he change? What should he say?
Be specific please.
white_wolf
(6,238 posts)in more than a general sense based on what I've learned through the news, DU, my own research, etc. I haven't lived it so I can't understand those issues anymore than a straight guy could understand some of my issues. So, how should he speak to black people?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)institutionalized.
Deny and Shred
(1,061 posts)when it comes to wanting to change the system? Who is running on boldly challenging existing institutions?
Getting rid of for-profit prisons, decriminalizing MJ, universal healthcare, $15 min wage and tuition-free college are changing the system in ways that should produce direct benefits for the AA community.
How to get that message across effectively is a very good question.
welivetotreadonkings
(134 posts)Giving a positive response in his platform to the BLM protesters who confronted him early in his campaign was a decent start, but there is definitely much room for improvement.
Can I just say that, regardless of who we are all supporting in this primary, isn't it amazing how far the Democratic party has come in addressing topics such as systemic racism, over-incarceration, the inherent racism in the War on Drugs, etc.? Still a long way to go, of course, but you have to hand it to those brave BLM protesters, they have helped shift the Overton Window in our political discourse to issues that have not been discussed nearly enough. Keep up the good work.
Cheers, oh, and exciting race, eh?
regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)And to our issues specifically as a whole. It a good idea, I hope nobody listen. Hillary can still win, I'm positive.
Response to JRLeft (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Everyone can decide themselves how they want to vote.
Bernie is not the type to give BS and tailor-made chameleon-like speeches.
That is why he is trustworthy.
If people can't see that, it's on them.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... feel like you do... that's it's "on us".
It's usually never the marginalized fault...
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)It's mind-boggling that "friendships" and "relationships" trump actual results.
Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)But I can understand why people would doubt someone they just met, no matter how authentic and passionate he is.
Then again, I've been familiar with Bernie for years - that makes a big difference.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... and again, there have been results from her directly and the Clintons as a whole.
Sanders right now is winning the early states with the same demographics Hillary lost with in 08, PoC have had a critical voting mass since 2006 in the DNC and will have the same voting mass in the DNC around the country in another 20 years.
There's a revolution, I just don't think most people realize where its been started
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Which is it?
Agency or no agency?
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... though and that's what Sanders has; the same group of people Clinton lost with in 08.
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)... with truth but the people he's reaching is narrow.
Clinton has an imperfect relationship with PoC, "your friend associate sucks.. come with me" isn't a message most people like to here.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Bernie Sanders has agreed to attend an event in north Minneapolis Friday for a forum on "Black America," according to organizers with Neighborhoods Organizing for Change, who made the announcement Sunday.
UPDATE: Hillary Clinton has formally declined the invite to attend this forum on racial issues, according to a press release from Neighborhoods Organizing for Change.The release also expands on the discussion's agenda, saying it will address "how the federal government can divest public resources from structures that cause and widen our racial disparities, and invest in radical solutions being developed in ... communities of color." The race talk will be a ticketed event, and space is limited, though no further information was given about the time it will take place or when, where, and how to get those tickets.
http://www.citypages.com/news/bernie-sanders-will-talk-black-america-at-north-minneapolis-event-8029805
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Very glad to hear that.
redwitch
(14,941 posts)I wonder why Hillary declined?
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)that it might have had something to do with the fact that this was an event where activists were making demands and the questions were unscripted. People from BLM interrupted shouting "where is Clinton?" Sadly, even though it was co-sponsored by the Nation and the Des Moines Register, the MSM didn't cover it.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)higher education, on and on...
How the hell does that not help black people?
You just want him to pander, like Clinton. You really think black voters are that stupid?
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I find this to be quite patronizing and I suspect that if Bernie tried to do as you say that POC would see right through it just as people see through it when Hillary affects a southern drawl.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)There's lots of us who think differently, and lot of us who will not be voting in the primary because neither of the candidates have our trust.
I hope you don't think we all think alike.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)talking about. I never said anything about thinking alike.
Quayblue
(1,045 posts)So he is understood. Agreeing with someone and understanding someone is not the same brain process.
That's the issue.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)prisons, making the rich pay their fair share and single payer? That is exactly what I understand some here to be saying.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)As long as there are friendships, relationships, and fish frys, it's all good.
You know how some like to talk of the DU bubble? We're seeing it in this thread -- a handful speaking for their community as a whole. My place of employment is very diverse, and there's a lot of talk of politics. I've never once heard mention of friendships, relationships, or fish frys.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Hillary. Then again, I don't know too many CEO's or bankers.
jillan
(39,451 posts)is also meeting with Rev Al.
I'm sure they will help Bernie get his message across.
Bernie doesn't have the name recognition that the Clinton's do. But he has the right message.
Take a deep breath, I think he will surprise you.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)jillan
(39,451 posts)he is paving the way for other leaders in communities of color to take a closer look at Bernie.
Here in Arizona, Bernie has the endorsements from the majority of Hispanic/Latino leadership.
Unfortunately, we don't vote until the end of March BUT if Grijalva and the others get out there and campaign with Bernie, this could be huge. The Latino community in Az needs to be motivated. They have been screwed over so bad in this state with Sheriff Joe. It's past time for a political revolution in Arizona
Little by little, his message will get out.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)All great news!
azmom
(5,208 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)endorsed him. Bamberg, Gilliard, Alexander, Neal, and McKnight. I have added all of them to my donor list as I want to give support to young progressive Democratic candidates.
I am assuming this is going to help also. Local leaders.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)Barber is an activist who would not compromise his integrity by endorsing a politician.
He is also a huge supporter of fusion politics, which is a black-led Christian social justice movement that seeks to unify people of different faiths and colors to bring about a true progressive revolution. His top goals in NC have always been ballot access issues and campaign finance reform. And the finance reform legislation that I worked on with the group is Clinton-esque, very incremental and policy oriented.
He IS on record as saying that he thinks Barack Obama is the personification of fusion politics. So I make a guess that he is not much interested in politicians who seek to diminish that legacy.
He wrote a book recently about the Fusion Party movement. If you are interested in his work, I highly recommend checking it out.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)but I'm not a PoC so I won't take it upon myself to tell them what I think they want or should want to hear.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)He has some good people around him, perhaps they need to sit down and talk to him about his approach.
What I guess a lot of people don't understand is how racism feels, what the experience is like.
I was talking to a client turned good friend. My mother was Irish and my father was Native/Mexican. I was talking about my maternal grandfather who stopped coming to our house. He was drunk and mad and called us kids "Half breeds". He cut my mother off.
I have stood on the streets of San Diego with my grandmother as people passed and called out the word "Spick."
My older brother who is darker skinned than I, spent a week in jail on a traffic violation in Midland Texas without being charged.
People who haven't lived it, don't get what the experience is like. I don't even. I have had very few events. I cannot compare my life with someone who is Black in this society. But I get the sense that a lot of infractions are overlooked if you feel that generally you might get a fair shake. Because to get 24/7 respect is too much to ask for. Not in this country, not in these times.
So they know the Clintons and even if there have been infractions and bad moves, they haven't been evil. They have helped at times. They are a known quantity. Bernie is too color blind, I am gathering. That comes across to some as not getting it. Not getting it all.
I, too am a Bernie supporter..hard core. I don't take offense at his color blindness. But then again, I am not getting pelted with racism on a daily basis.
Kurska
(5,739 posts)"It's one of the few narratives that actually damages Bernie Sanders"
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)It would be hilarious if it wasn't so freaking SAD.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Do they harp on this over at Kos?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)What an odd theory. The attempt to separate racial injustice from economic injustice is just weird.
Response to JRLeft (Original post)
Hiraeth This message was self-deleted by its author.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Do you believe your life's experience/treatment is, has been, or will be, the same as a non-Black person?
Signed,
Another Black Person
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #227)
Hiraeth This message was self-deleted by its author.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)but what does that have to do with a Bernie supporter recognizing that Bernie must change is manner of speaking to Black people in order to garner (more of) the Black vote. That would be a good thing, in my estimation ... as a Black person.
That is weird?!? I have no idea what you are talking about.
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #249)
Hiraeth This message was self-deleted by its author.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Wrong. I do not support HRC, nor have I ever ... and I have said that time and time again. Why do people, particularly Bernie supporters, that clearly read my posts, continue to miss that?
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Exchange ... that I do not recall!
What can I do to make amends?
Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #255)
Post removed
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)for whatever reason.
You delete your part of the exchange, call me passive-aggressive, and tell me to fuck off?
You really need a break.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)don't have the same life experience/context as my AA friends and perhaps I need to just stfu and listen to what you all have to say and not patronize ESPECIALLY when two people (you and Bravenak) who support different candidates say the same thing.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Paulie
(8,462 posts)And what makes cultural appropriation all the more infuriating for people of color rests on the fact that other peoplewhite or notcan take off their costume and return to everyday life without the discrimination or stigma commonly associated with those cultural expressions.
From: http://www.dailydot.com/opinion/5-things-white-people-cultural-appropriation/
It's hard for white people, talk a lot of talk, but we still live and have the advantage of this racist system. Sooner we admit it the better.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:05 PM - Edit history (1)
and I have come to the conclusion we white people have this ingrained white privilege prism that we view things through that we need to acknowledge and that handicaps us from fully understanding others with a different life experience. we white people tend to get defensive about white privilege and take personal offense when it is pointed out, It is not necessarily our fault, it something bigger than us as individuals but we need to acknowledge that it is there and go from there, mainly just to STFU and listen even though I have my opinion via my white privilege prism that is hard to shake.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)But there is hope, though it may be another hundred years... We at the core are a product of the system; we can talk the talk but after the walk we take the coat off and go right back into our "normal" lives.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)Then maybe people will listen.
merrily
(45,251 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)Good discussion.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)I hope at least some here can acknowledge how Bernie's literally put his body on the line to help them in his career...
Vinca
(50,236 posts)It was with Jim Clyburn and he was talking about the impressive Sanders ground game in South Carolina and that he didn't want to endorse anyone at this time. (In 2008 he was a Hillary superdelegate early on and later switched to Obama.) The conversation continued and he said he expected Hillary would be the nominee unless extra-political events intervened. I thought that was curious. What does he know that we don't know?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Just like Bravenak, before you.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...let's move forward together.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)of the terms "forward" and "together."
From the posts in this thread, I suspect that we (in the generic sense ... not referring to you and me ...) do not.
wildeyed
(11,243 posts)for the Moral Mondays movement here in NC, Rev. Barber's group. And he just took that like it was his, to promote his candidate
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)With respect to definitions, I commented in a PM:
Is it possible to be more clear, as to my meaning?
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)You are reallllly stretching with that one...
thereismore
(13,326 posts)jham123
(278 posts)...Just wrong.
Bernie's message is sound, he needs to leave it alone and pander to "Americans" no matter the color of their skin
That's why folks can't figure Bernie out, he is winning doing the "right" thing, not the pandering thing
orpupilofnature57
(15,472 posts)people from poverty is an African American issue, Who is more Victimized by the people that Demand 600% Disproportionately, African Americans, Latinos ,LGBT, and Immigrants . Hillary getting to play both sides of the fence, while Bernie is called to task is unfair, he's identifying the cause, she spews poetry and platitudes with no concrete plan, and is given a pass, WHY?
Chezboo
(230 posts)Great supporting info showing Bernie always being in the game for African Americans, versus Hillary.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/jealous-draws-distinctions-in-democratic-race-620769347989