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Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:36 AM

I just watched the Bernie interview from the Huff Post interview where

Bernie was asked what would make people vote against there own self interest and Bernie said that he didn't know. But in saying he doesn't know, he's insinuating that a vote against Bernie IS a vote against one's own self interest. Something I don't happen to agree with.

After almost 8 years of gridlock, I don't think we can take another 8 years of more gridlock, or even 4 years of gridlock.

So a Bernie supporter said in another thread that,"You know that Bernie's agenda is not going to happen unless we win a majority of both Houses of Congress"? Well no shit Sherlock!!!!

So listen up Bernie supporters, come 2017, and 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024 etc, etc, it's going to be YOUR FAULT that you have no FREE College Education, No FREE Universal Health Care, No 3 months Paid Maternity Leave, No Doubling of your Social Security benefits, because the Dems are not going to control the House before 2022 at the earliest because of gerrymandering and the soonest we could hope to have a major redistricting. That's UUUUUGGGGEEEE I know, but I think you need a dose of reality. None of the GOP is going to vote for new taxes on the wealthy or Big Business, or on anybody for that matter, because of that pledge they all take, and threats of increased taxation will just ensure more businesses leaving the country. Dems in purple states are not going to vote to increase taxes. There was a reason that the Dems lost the House after passing the ACA.

The reason that you're not going to have all those things is because YOU didn't deliver Bernie the Revolution that he needed to pass all that FREE stuff through both houses of Congress. You're not going to have all those things because our nation is 19 Trillion dollars in debt, our nation's infrastructure is crumbling and we are already besieged by growing entitlement programs that we can't afford to pay for now, let alone pay for new entitlement programs, and double a Social Security benefit which is not going to be able to continue to pay its current level of payments in less than 20 years from now if we do nothing to ensure its survivability.

I know many of you Bernie supporters are young and idealists. But, Bernie would be the oldest president to be elected POTUS should he win in November, so it's a good bet that neither of you are going to get to the mountaintop together. So every Revolution needs to have a Plan B.

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Reply I just watched the Bernie interview from the Huff Post interview where (Original post)
politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 OP
daleanime Feb 2016 #1
TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #21
roguevalley Feb 2016 #2
RobertEarl Feb 2016 #3
daleanime Feb 2016 #22
politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #9
virtualobserver Feb 2016 #20
Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #31
1000words Feb 2016 #4
mikehiggins Feb 2016 #5
highprincipleswork Feb 2016 #6
politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #8
highprincipleswork Feb 2016 #23
Lucinda Feb 2016 #7
RichVRichV Feb 2016 #15
Lucinda Feb 2016 #16
RichVRichV Feb 2016 #24
Lucinda Feb 2016 #28
Hoyt Feb 2016 #18
slipslidingaway Feb 2016 #10
politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #11
Glamrock Feb 2016 #32
kath Feb 2016 #12
politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #29
Fumesucker Feb 2016 #13
artislife Feb 2016 #14
farleftlib Feb 2016 #17
TCJ70 Feb 2016 #19
Armstead Feb 2016 #25
Dawson Leery Feb 2016 #26
Mike Nelson Feb 2016 #27
azmom Feb 2016 #30

Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:38 AM

1. And plan B should be....

Hillary 'Never Ever' Clinton? Ah, no.

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Response to daleanime (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 08:32 AM

21. Rehearsing the line, "Please sir, may I have some more?" The nerve of the plebeians wanting out! nt

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:47 AM

2. given that the congress wants to impeach HRC now and that

they say she murdered people, gridlock with her is assured. I am shocked every time I read someone say this about Bernie.

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:50 AM

3. It is shocking

 

I mean, c'mon, like this is gonna make us vote for H?

And it shows a certain myopia that points to a discount of what the People can do. With friends like that.....

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:22 AM

22. Agreed.....

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Response to roguevalley (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:56 AM

9. Wow!!! "They say she murdered people"... Sounds like you're living in the

Twilight Zone. Are you reliving the 90's again when the GOP accused Hillary of being a lesbian and having an affair with Vince Foster, and killing him to cover up the affair. Gee!!

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 08:20 AM

20. your naive dismissal of RW hatred of Hillary puts YOU firmly in the twilight zone

 

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:14 PM

31. I want to know what specifically you think Hillary is going to accomplish with a GOP congress.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)


Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:59 AM

5. Well, apparently Plan B would be to just stay home and eat popcorn

since there is no chance of the people getting anything the majority of them have said over and over they support strongly.

The post I just read looks like it came directly from the pages of the Cruz playbook and frankly, I don't buy any of it. I'm neither young nor particularly idealistic but I am open to the idea that times DO change and if you fuck enough of the people enough of the time it will come back and bite the Establishment on the ass.

I'm sorry you feel the way you say you do but that's your right. All I can say is that I wish those people who say we can't make things better would just stay out of the way of those who are trying to.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:05 AM

6. Hey Sherlock, many of us and not anywhere what you would call young, and still believe in Bernie.

 

I believe in anyone who goes for the things I believe in. I don't believe in someone I know won't come near to representing my interests. That is why I believe in Bernie, no matter what. Certainly, no matter the kind of arguments you bring up, mostly based on rampant assumptions and a whole lot of lack of faith. I'm not just going to change my mind and go for a candidate that is sure to triangulate, marginalize the Progressive voice, support TPP. possibly give in on cuts to Social Security, and in general drive us to the right "because that's just what you have to do in order to deal with Republicans".

No, I'm going with the guy who seems to have finally gotten us the more than six debates we should have had in the beginning.

I know you Hillary folks think you've got the corner on "reality". The trouble is, your version of reality is so full of lousy stuff it's barely worth believing in.

No, I'm sticking with Bernie, and I mean all the way. And if he is not the nominee, will I hold my nose and vote for Hillary? Probably. Unless there's any other way to get my voice heard in a meaningful way. But I won't be happy about it. And I won't expect her to do very much that I approve of either. And I certainly will hope for more meaningful change way before the dates you quote, however it comes about.

Open up. Use your imagination. Have a little faith, not in what they tell you, but in what could be if we all worked together. That would be my advice.

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Response to highprincipleswork (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:46 AM

8. Well unlike you, I choose to believe in myself.

I stopped believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy a long time ago. I cannot for the life of me imagine me putting all my hopes and dreams in another human being who is as infallible as I am if not more.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:15 PM

23. Well, when you run for President, let me know, and we'll see if I want to support you.

 

Because we're not putting all our hopes and dreams on "Santa Claus". Far from it. Far less than those who say Hillary can work with a Republican Congress. What a horrific idea, the damage they could do, colluding together on more things that would disintegrate the Middle Class.

No, we're supporting someone who says. "When we stand together, there is nothing we cannot accomplish".

He's right, you know. We have enough people believing the right things that if they only stood together there is so much we could do. And I don't get any idea that Bernie thinks he can either compromise or ramrod things through without the support of a large amount of people. Nor would he necessarily choose to try.

What is clear is this is partly a movement of faith. If you have faith, who knows how far you can go. Doesn't mean you are going to win everything, but so much more likely (I think we may agree) if you try. If you don't have faith and if you don't try, then I think you have already lost the battle.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 03:10 AM

7. You lost me a bit with your last point, but I agree with the rest.

His age has nothing to do with my lack of support, but the fact that he has no real plans to fix the problems that exists in ACA on day one is critical for me. Which is the precise point Hillary is making when she says "We cant wait" for the makeup of congress to change to give people any relief. We have to have specific plans to move forward to try and help people NOW.

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Response to Lucinda (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:58 AM

15. So what is Hillary's plan to fix the ACA?

And more importantly, how does she plan to get it through a congress that has tried to repeal the ACA more than 60 times? I'd like to know how getting things through congress is pie in the sky for one candidate and a forgone conclusion for the other?


Or maybe you know of some amazing plan Hillary has to retake both chambers of congress that Bernie lacks?

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Response to RichVRichV (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 05:52 AM

16. You can find some of the specifics she ahs been talking about here:

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/09/23/clinton-plan-to-lower-out-of-pocket-health-care-costs/

And here:
https://ballotpedia.org/2016_presidential_candidates_on_healthcare

As for how she plans on working with congress, she will most likely do what she always has done, find common ground with those on both the left and right who have a vested interest in making those specific improvements.

The first two are bills she sponsored which passed the Senate, but did not become law. The balance are cosponsored bills. All are bi-partisan efforts and related to health care issues. There are other bills not listed, I just had this list handy, both health care related and covering other issues. Contrary to some reports, Hillary had great working relationships with Senate Republicans.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/108/s538
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/s1777
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s793
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s2162
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s1858
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s2932
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s1760
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/s3406
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/s1094
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/s1741
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/108/s1015
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s707
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s843
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/109/s3678

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Response to Lucinda (Reply #16)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:26 PM

24. That's not a one way street.

If co-sponsors that passed are the prerequisite then Bernie has tons of those also. Just go to the same site and look up his name under co-sponsors. He has signed on to a lot of laws that passed.

He also got a lot of laws passed himself. Instead of taking the traditional direct bill route, he did most of his work through amendments. He knows how to play the system as well as anyone. These links have some lists of amendments he got pushed through.

Inside the horror show that is congress -Rolling Stones
Bernie gets it done -alternet

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Response to RichVRichV (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:46 PM

28. Which is great, and I know he is a good house liaison too, but at the same time, none of the 29

bills and resolutions he wrote in 2015 had a single Republican co-sponsor. And the previous 2 years, his proposals were below 10% co-sponsored by Republicans, which is better than 0%, but still not great. To me, that indicates he either doesn't bother with, or cannot get, solid bi-partisan support for his ideas. I don't know how you achieve support as a POTUS for your ideas if you couldn't get it as a Senator.

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Response to Lucinda (Reply #7)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 06:32 AM

18. +1.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:12 AM

10. Sanders is uniting boomers and millennials and a whole lot of people and independents in between ...

not one person that we know of, regardless of party, supports Clinton.

Be a part of the change, instead of the wing of the party that states we cannot achieve too much.






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Response to slipslidingaway (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:28 AM

11. Wow!!! Not one person that you know of, support's Clinton. Where do you live?

The Moon.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:18 PM

32. I'm in Indiana

Just outside Chicago, and same thing for me. I personally know 1 Clinton supporter. None in my family either, and most of them are reliable Democratic voters.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:36 AM

12. People who go on and on about "free stuff" reveal their Republican mindset.

You're really showing your ass here. perhaps you would be happier at Free Republic.

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Response to kath (Reply #12)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:48 PM

29. I'm where I want to be, and I am now and always will be a member of the Democratic

party, and I'm calling it just what it is "Free Stuff". That's what Bernie calls it. If you don't like what I have to say, you don't have to read it, or respond to it. After all, this is still a democracy.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:43 AM

13. "I know many of you Bernie supporters are young and idealists."

Seriously? You aren't paying much attention to your audience, DU is primarily olds and a lot of us are tired of smelling the brown pasta that gets thrown against the walls in GD-P continuously.

The idealists are the ones who think the establishment gives the slightest damn about them as anything other than an a resource to exploit. Human resources says it all.




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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:48 AM

14. Major eye roll on this one. nt

 

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Response to artislife (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 06:28 AM

17. facepalm fits too (n/t)

 

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 08:16 AM

19. I'll just direct you here...

...to my thread about this very subject. I think you're way off base and need to relax a bit.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:29 PM

25. Everyone Dies. Nothing Matters. The Universe is Pointless. Give Up.

 

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:34 PM

26. Bernie's core of supporters

will certainly stay home in 2018.

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 09:38 PM

27. They are nice goals, but...

...I agree they have little chance of becoming a reality. I always wonder why numerous people think Republicans - who they perceive will not help Hillary pass anything - think Bernie will have better luck. I can't imagine Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell suddenly "feeling the Bern." Still, it would be nice!

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Response to politicaljunkie41910 (Original post)

Mon Feb 8, 2016, 10:13 PM

30. I know many of you Bernie supporters are young and idealists.

You know jack shit.

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