2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAll this shit implying Sanders supporters are racists and sexists needs to stop.
If the Establishment and Clinton supporters keep pushing that narrative that Sanders and his supporters don't care about race and gender equality issues and then Clinton gets the nomination it is going to destroy the Democratic Party and help those RW populist types pushing the "politically correct Social Justice Warriors hate working class white men" narrative.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)They are following your fine example.
840high
(17,196 posts)Hillary supporters. Go check the nasty Hillary site.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)There's a very distinctive timeline that Hillary Supporter wants to bury.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Hmm?
frylock
(34,825 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)It's sexist no matter who says it.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)WITH MY VAGINA and I urge other women not vote with their vaginas, too.
My 25 year old daughter and year unanimous amongst her friends are also not voting with their vaginas. And yes, the politically active amongst them are reaching out to other millennials and urging them to reject vagina politics.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)scscholar
(2,902 posts)She is our best hope. Our best hope.
Glamrock
(11,802 posts)Inform our world. Where I live (my experience) I know one Hillary supporter. Both the liberals and conservatives in my family hate her. Their word, not mine. (Couple of my aunts promised to hold their noses and vote for her if she gets the nomination because of the Supreme court, thank god.) None of my friends like her. No one I work with likes her. Some even hate her.
I also travel for work, blue collar. Spend a lot of time with other blue collar guys (union and non) both at work and at the hotel (generally outside smoking). Same thing, I have yet to hear anyone speak favorably of her. A large minority hate her. A majority dislike her. There's a reason she polls negatively in regard to favorability, people don't like her. I know how much of that was done by the other side, I've defended her. But the fact is, people don't like her. My experience verifys that for me. Your experience may inform you that her negative favorability is BS.
However, again where I'm at, my Dad's got the Bern, my conservative republican boss has got the Bern, numerous friends and family members who have voted GOP in the past are feeling the Bern. Again, my experience informs me that Sanders is our best hope due to crossover appeal while your experience may inform you differently.
Anyway, that's one of the reasons why we on this board have such a disconnect with each other. That's why you don't get it. Life experience. Maybe where you are at everyone loves her. I don't presume to know. But, where i'm at, that's not the case.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)She will cause Dems to stay home and the GOP to come out in droves to elatedly vote against her.
Bernie has crossover appeal. He will get some moderate GOP votes. He will get the youth to come out and vote who will stay home if they are fed one more same old same old establishment corporate centrist. They need to know that the person they vote for will fight for their future. Hillary won't. She already told us "we can't".
We know for certain that in Bernie we have someone who will fight for us. He is energizing so many people and they are volunteering all over the place to help get him elected. He is not beholden to any corporate donors like Hillary is.
Bernie is our ONLY hope.
.
eridani
(51,907 posts)That's the percent of eligible voters who did not vote in 2014. Sanders is mobilizing them.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)agree
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I like Hillary and will vote for her in the general if it isn't Bernie. But Bernie is my candidate.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Any time I even lob a mild criticism at HRC, I'm told I'm "classy" and a "typical Bernbot."
Sorry, HRC supporters have dirty hands and if I am going to be impugned, I will return the favor. I never have and never will back down from a fight or a bully, even online!
Sanders worked all his life for sex and racial equality and justice. To call him anything other than a warrior on these issues is spin, lies and flat out ignorance!
jonestonesusa
(880 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)we kinda get angry when lies are put on us so we push back as any human would we ain't perfect
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)I will vote for Hillary if she wins even though my first choice is Bernie.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)I am a Sanders supporter. I want Bernie to win the nomination and I will do all that I can to get to that point. If Hillary gets the nomination, I will campaign for her. I will vote BLUE for every office on the ticket.
I am of the demographic of 'angry old white man'. I'm angry that we are fighting for women's equality all over again. I'm angry that we are STILL fighting for racial equality. I'm angry that these so-called Christians are piously going to church on Sunday and then forgetting everything that Jesus taught about taking care of your brother Mon-Sat.
I fought in many of these battles 50 years ago when I marched, worked voter registration drives in the South, passed out leaflets urging passage of the ERA. I will point out the hypocrisy of a candidate criticizing the president for 'going outside the Constitution' with and Executive Order and then in almost the same breath saying that 'God's law supersedes the Constitution'.
I am practically frothing at the mouth at the Republican Congress putting their careers and the party ahead of the country they are supposed to represent.
I prefer Bernie, but I would vote for Hillary, any democrat, any lower animal with a single progressive and/or liberal bone in its body, and my pet rock before I would vote for ANY Republican for President.
So, please don't try and tar all Bernie supporters with the same brush and I, for my part, will not tar Hillary or her supporters.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)It's all they have and they can't begin to compete with Bernie on policy.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If you compare Bernie's policies to Hillary's you'll see why.
If they believed their candidate was the better choice they would be posting positive articles about her but I guess they can't find any?
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and a couple dust motes on the other side. Makes it difficult, I s'pose.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)All of their threads and posts are about Bernie and/or his supporters.
It's bizarre.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Oh, c'mon! She had her pic taken with orphans or something, didn't she?
She's a grandmother, for Christ sake!
It's crass to be mean to grandmothers.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Their strategy is clear: Whatever it takes to win.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)the racist shit showing up in some Bernie supporters' writings?
I mean I hate to see it; but, I'm going to call it out every time. Perhaps the OP should read:
Cue: "Who? ... What? ... Where? I haven't seen it" laugh track in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)rather than claim ALL of Sander's supporters are guilty. just as I know only a few idiots are claiming opposition to Clinton is because of rw brainwashing. and surely you are not suggesting that the only racists at DU and on the internet are Sanderss supporters, are you? I know a few in the Clinton camp right here.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)to stop posting racist/sexist shit? Or, are your content ignoring it because ... NotAllBernieSupporters?
No ... I call them out too. But, with respect to this political contest, to this point, "I ain't got no beef with HRC supporters ... ain't no HRC supporter called me no race-nagger/Stockholm Syndrome sufferer" (apologies to The Greatest ... Muhammad Ali).
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)you have got to be kidding...let's leave it at that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Not last month when he posted it and people requested he self-delete. Just tonight, after you brought it up again for the millionth time.
NCTraveler was nice enough to post the text of his OP in the last comment before Willy self-deleted that racist bullshit, however.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But I'm cool with that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)and you are painting me, also targeted by that post and very vocal in response to it, with the same brush you use for the poster and that is absolutely not decent behavior. It is not acceptable and it is exactly what the other poster was saying to you.
I really think you need to retract that, since your own damn link shows me and many other Bernie supporters giving that poster a full dressing down.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)supporters, of which I am one, of not calling out such bigoted shit. I'm in that very thread, as are many other Bernie supporters, calling out that bigoted shit with great gusto. So it is not right of you to characterize me and others by the actions of someone you know we have castigated.
Someone had to point out that the link you posted is full of Bernie supporters like me calling out the racism and homophobia in that thread. So that's what I'm doing. Racism and homophobia, by the way. So how gay people respond to that is also pertinent and you can see how I responded as a gay Bernie supporter in your own link so I am pointing out that. Because I'm on record and your reporting of that thread is not honest about what is said in it by Bernie supporters including me a gay Bernie supporter who really mouthed off in that thread and others to that poster.
I want that to be clearly understood by all parties. Your characterization needed to be challenged and I did so. And rather than respond you insulted me for reasons of your own.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Yes ... there were a few, even, several Bernie supporter calling the OP out of line ... But there were few fewer than, those that rec'd ... in fact, the OP survived a jury.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Bill Clinton signed several bills like the sentencing reform act, the Welfare Bill, and the Defense of Marriage Act that their drafters intended to be sexist and racist. Bernie stood tall against those bills.
If there is a racist and sexist candidate in our primary, it certainly is not Bernie. To the contrary.
And these false accusations will split our party.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Please don't play the ignorant ... you have participated in far too many threads that contained the stuff ... You just chose to ignore it, and talk around it.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)that thread speaking against it. It also attacked LGBT which you, true to your own form, leave out entirely.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)You can't so you won't so instead you will repeatedly employ little jabs of the sort your bias tells you will get to me. They don't.
You made assertions, I challenged them, my objections were very specific and came with reasons that I find them objectionable. In return, you have insulted me twice.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)You were one of the few that called the OP out of line.
Happy?
And Yes, ... the LOL is me being bullyingly dismissive.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And it has been well documented and beaten to death. Wouldn't doubt if at least some of it pertains to Bernie's heritage. All the 'Where's Waldo?' crap and baseless accusations of white supremacy in particular.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and I'll post 5 of Bernie supporters.
BTW ... Noting that Bernie's crowds lack diversity, is not racist. So don't start.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)???
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)jonestonesusa
(880 posts)56% for Clinton and 34% for Sanders. 34% is a significant number of people of color supporting Sanders. If you are interested in facts, keep this fact in mind.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)..."Brogressive" internet idiots on places like Reddit who could just as easily vote for Trump as they could for Bernie. Bernie is tapping into a lot of anti-establishment rage and it's impossible to filter out all the crap. Hillary does not have that excuse exactly BECAUSE she is Establishment.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and i include some Sander's supporters in that. But...what has been happening in the AA forum in branding Sanders as ____ because of some of his dumb ass supporters is unfortunate, to say the least. Of course, the fact that most of them support Clinton is absolutely coincidental. And to suggest that some Clinton supporters are not racist is simply an outright lie. Not saying that you are doing that, but certainly some have implied as much.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)No one in the AA Group has called, or even implied, Bernie a racist or sexist ... some of his supporters, on the other hand, absolutely!
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)But some of his supporters are?... and he shouldn't be elected for that????
So... are there any Clinton supporters who are racist? Are there some who even hate whites?! I mean I've read things like this in AA:
"Most of the time being white is an absence of problems."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118736341
Yep, that's exactly what "being white" is! Not a problem in the world. (I suppose that includes Hillary. She's white, y'know, and so , as I have also read in AA, cannot begin to understand what prejudice is since whites apparently can't.)
Frankly... I'm choosing my candidate for what they themselves did and they themselves said, not what some people I don't even know and have never met say or do..... because a LOT of stupid shit is being said everywhere.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)No. I do not believe so.
Yes. Based on what some have written, Yes, I believe so
Straw man.
Yes ... there are. I haven't run into any on DU; but, I have in real life.
"Most of the time being white is an absence of problems.
Does that indicate a hatred for white people? Really? But still ... another straw man built.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Does that indicate a hatred for white people?
Disingenuous much?
Is your straw man white or black?....
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Good evening.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)That's just what Barbara Bush said to Al Franken once.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Back in 1960s New York, black radicals weren't keen to sit at the knees of white intellectuals and be told what's what. The ensuing tensions prompted many white radicals to flee to the more accommodating hills of Vermont. Sanders was one. There's no gentler way to put this, but they were part of the era's white flight.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118733454
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Pnwmom, or rather, Froma Harrop (the originator of the OP, recounting the history of relationship between SNCC and "white radicals" , was/is calling Bernie (white radicals) racist ... because she/they noting that when the Black radicals did not pursue the Black movement in the way white radicals thought they should (I.e., focus on economics rather than racism), the white radicals left for a place that the tension would no longer be at issue?
Would you like to discuss this further?
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Because on the surface an accusation of white flight would seem to imply racism. If you can spare the time, I'd be very interested to hear more.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Or, rather, a case of: "If the organization that YOU started to address the cause that YOU identify and doesn't fight for YOUR cause in the manner I think YOU should ... even, as MY plan/agenda shifts the focus of YOUR organization, then I'M out of here"?
There are a lot of things I could ascribe that mindset to; but, racism would be among the last.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Perhaps you are mistaken?
Number23
(24,544 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 4, 2016, 07:05 PM - Edit history (1)
deliberate. And I have no idea why but I can't be bothered anymore. I'm done with folks that act like they can't see what's going on around here and are more pissed off at the folks calling out the taunting and hostile behavior towards minorities here than the ones doing the behavior that needs calling out.
I don't get it. I REALLY don't freaking get it. And at this point, I'm not trying to anymore. The supporters, black and white, of all the candidates that have called this crap out right and left -- and there are ALOT of them including a ton of Sanders supporters -- are the only ones worth even a second of our time.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)THAT is the most frustrating part of all of this, the complete pretense that what actually gets posted here on a regular basis is somehow printed in invisible ink.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Despite all the non-amphibious' gasping for air?!?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)...or even implying that he's a racist.
You and I know this well.
And the people making this assertion know, too. Their feigned outrage and tears are not working.
They have not witnessed anyone in the AA group implying or explicitly stating that Sanders is a racist.
What they may have seen, however, are members in the AA group taking Sanders to task for his stance on race vs. class.
Because many of us are questioning his personal and policy views on race, for some of the Sanders' supporters, we must be **implying** that Sanders is himself a racist, right? Right.
But they know this isn't true. It's an obfuscation on their part. This because many AA DUers have made it clear that the issue we have with Sanders is his disconnect with the black population, and his unwillingness to accept that race is most often the driver of economic inequality. The racism is what came first; the racism is pervasive regardless of the progress that the African American community has made. No amount of money in the world, economic success, or social mobility would overcome racism and that's what Bernie Sanders and some of his supporters fail to realize. I haven't decided if they are being naïve or willfully obtuse.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Wait ... anti-establishment rage = racist sexist shit ... the Establishment = systemic racist/sexist shit ... That's a problem, right?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)if not, then perhaps you will concede that SOME clinton supporters are also racists and sexists. so some clinton supporters are racist and sexist, as are some sanders' supporters. not hard to believe in america.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I am saying that the vast majority of DUers posting racist shit to DU ... do so in defense of Bernie.
We can do a cut and paste, or link for link contest if you wish.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)One can both be angry at the corporate stranglehold on society and have problematic attitudes towards women and POC.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)those are not who we are talking about here.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)are supporting a racist? Or are you saying that all/many/most Sanders' supporters are racists? This is an ugly accusation to level against any person, particularly if it is done merely to score political points.
I would like to think we as a party are better than this, that all of us could acknowledge that our support for individual candidates reflects our honest convictions. We do not need to resort to personal attacks and smears to support our candidates.
I am going to try to take my own advice and remind myself that other Democrats are not the real problem in this country, that what I post in the heat of the moment on DU only represents my one voice--not the entire Democratic party. And I am going to try and tone down the rhetoric because I want Democrats to win this election. I am going to "keep my eye on the prize" to quote an old spiritual.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I'm not saying that either ... I have said, repeatedly. THERE ARE SOME BERNIE SUPPORTERS THAT HAVE, AND DO, POST RACIST/SEXIST SHIT TO DU. And, as ugly an accusation, and horrifying, as that might be ... it happens ... and is often rec'd or met with silence by other Bernie supporters.
Is that clear enough? AND, BTW ... My calling that shit out isn't about scoring political points ... check my account, it has nothing to do with this, or any other election ... it has everything to do with calling out racism/sexism when I see it ... and, refusing to be brow beaten by those that NEVER seem to see liberal racism.
My prize goes beyond electoral politics.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I don't.
So what the hell ARE you yammering on about then?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and that is saying something.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I'm sure it's not.
And I still don't know what you are yammering about if it's not "Don't vote for Sanders because his supporters are racists."
Which has to be the absolute stupidest response I have seen in weeks.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)I thought it was beautiful and pointed out the wrong that was done. Edit: On second thought, you probably understand this better than I do. Enough is enough.
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)Thank you for posting this.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)LexVegas
(6,094 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)demanding that people stop being racists and sexists.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I'm telling people not to call Sanders supporters in general racist and sexist because of some idiots on the internet.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)You've called them assholes and now idiots. But a very real very vocal minority of Sanders' supporters on the internet are also racists and sexists. And they need to STFU, not the people who are bringing attention to them. THEY are hurting Sanders, not the people who are victims of and/or appalled by their behavior.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)And only see this one where you're telling people talking about them to STFU.
Got a link?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I was referring more to on the Internet more generally and in real life.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Because you wanted to communicate your message to "the internet" and people in real life.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)only go unchallenged, but they are often cheered on and those of us who question them are almost always criticized by their fellow Sanders wingmen . . .
It's really a disgrace to see so-called liberals behave this way. And, deny as some people may, it DOES have a damaging effect on efforts to attract minorities to Sanders. I can't imagine any black person who is trying to figure out whether to support Sanders or Clinton not being turned off by this. And I will bet you that has been a deal breaker for who-knows-how-many African Americans - who would want to be associated with people who say - or people who condone and defend - the things that some of these people say to and about us.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)BlueMTexpat
(15,373 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)what you said was "Let's pretend it's not happening (and I will generously add) because it is only a few doing it."
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)You are accusing most Sanders supporters of being bigots, which is false.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)How did you get that from what I wrote?
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... ask if this is their experience.
Its eye opening
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)folks poking they heads in to pretend what is, isn't.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 3, 2016, 11:20 PM - Edit history (1)
It has long been a joke in the AA Group that it is far worse to call out a white liberal for the racist shit they may say or do; than, for being a white liberal and saying or doing racist shit.
The latter will garner sympathy and hand holding, the former will get you banned (timed-out).
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I have definitely had my share of "mansplainers" in my life and recognize the "whitesplainers" when I see 'em.
Like I said, it's fucked up.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Thanks for pointing that out
Number23
(24,544 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)TeddyR
(2,493 posts)quotes please showing what is racist
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Do your own homework.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)I'm sure stereotyping Clinton supporters will somehow stop them from stereotyping Sanders supporters.
plus5mace
(140 posts)In 2008 Hillary claimed Obama couldn't win SC because black people love the Clintons. After that proved incorrect she claimed that Obama couldn't win white voters. No matter what year it is, if a Clinton is running they are trying to split the Party along racial lines.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)I grew up with Richard Nixon as the dominant figure in national politics, at least after RFK was killed.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)And that scares me. All she cares about is power.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)would run to a substantial number of pages. The echoes are unmistakeable - the arrogance, the sense of entitlement, the anything-goes mentality, the hawkishness, the alignment with Big Bu$ine$$. History, as Twain said, may not repeat, but it does rhyme.
kath
(10,565 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Even though he was forced to resign, Nixon essentially won:
His argument that the president has to be an arrogant, secretive paranoiac has carried the day in this country since 1968.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Everything from Hillary is too stupid to be President to she's a Rovian manipulator and now they love her.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)To reverse an old Fidel Castro slogan:
"With the counter-revolution, everything. Against the counter-revolution, NOTHING!"
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Jayzus, that was a hell of a band that never got their true due.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Your favorite, right?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I could understand someone mildly supportive or mildly opposed switching sides if they found a better candidate but the cases I've seen have employed extreme rhetoric in both directions.
Makes me think they are more about extreme rhetoric than actual policies or even candidates.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)are obviously just picking up a candidate to use as a reason to hurl invective. Astonishing, she was a liar, she was stupid, racist, Bill was super racist. Many of them attacked her for being Big Money and the establishment. It's crazy behavior. It is seriously not rational.
pa28
(6,145 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)When you find yourself in one, stop digging.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)People who loathed Hillary in 2008 now love her in 2016, there's really no reason for them to be so damn dramatic about it except they love the drama.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And it was never racism or indifference to racism to defend our candidate from the false accusation that he didn't care about racism.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Dismissivness in the extreme has been the pattern.
THIS needs to stop.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Done!
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's just that we realize that no permanent victories can be won in the anti-racist struggle without the economy being changed. It's not possible to have a non-bigoted capitalism. Everything we've all been through since the Sixties has shown us that. MLK's open calls for democratic socialism after 1966 were a recognition of that(and nobody can ever argue that MLK ever put the fight against racism on the backburner).
We all care that black kids are getting murdered by the police. And unlike HRC supporters, we don't have to rationalize backing a candidate who pushed the Dems to be "law and order" (a phrase that never meant anything but "kill the n_____s" in the Eighties and Nineties).
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Some didn't like it. Can't say I blame them, it's damn ugly.
Dismissive in the extreme.
See for yourself:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1129890
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Every one of those links is to a post about the BLM ambushes on Sanders.... which were unnecessary and uncalled for. They supported an untrue GOP meme started back in June. I can't believe you are still falling for it.
They are not dismissive of BLM but of the lousy tactic of ambushing with support of a Right Wing meme.
Disagreeing with gorilla tactics (that even BLM didn't like or condone) is not being racist. Neither is disagreeing with you.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Read the responses carefully, beyond the OP's. They're incredibly nasty and dismissive. The dismissive attitude continues to permeate the discussion.
But please, don't take my word for it, spend some time with some of our own AA DU'ers. Ask them what they think instead of dismissing their concerns as "race baiting, race nagging, or playing the race card." These dismissive phrases get thrown around here on a daily basis, and it hasn't gone unnoticed.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)No need to go to the comments to fact the dismiss case in point.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Bernie didn't care about racism?
What HAS been said is Bernie prioritizes economic justice higher than social justice.
Those are two different statements.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)You have never offered one bit of proof that he ever said that the fight against racism was less important than the fight against economic injustice. Not once.
Bernie never said or believed that fighting racism should take a back seat to fighting against corporate power. Never once.
And he never called for anti-racist activists to put fighting economic justice before the fight against racism. Never once.
What do you want him to do? What do you want him to say?
"we won't do anything about economic justice until all institutional racism has vanished"?
And what good would it do if he DID say that?
It's not as if saying that would do anything at all to make institutional racism go away.
It isn't possible to MAKE institutional racism vanish without significantly changing the economic system.
It can be pushed back slightly(as in the Sixties)but not significantly weakened(which is why MLK openly embraced economic justice in the last two years...NOT as an abandonment of the anti-racist fight, but as a rededication to that fight, as recognition that the 'free market" feeds on hate and distrust between people, as a recognition that new tactics were needed in the continued struggle).
The capitalist system itself depends on racism. Capitalism won't ALLOW us to become a society in which institutional bigotry ceases to exist, because it needs the divisions caused by institutional racism to stay in power.
But Bernie cares just as much about fighting racism and bigotry as you do.
It's as personal for him as it is for you.
If you've had members of your family die in Nazi death camps, you are never going to be soft on fighting any form of hate.
If you don't want to support Bernie, fine. that's your call. I respect your right to support whoever you support. But don't say things about a person that you know perfectly well aren't true.
You are a better person than that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and arguing the same thing over and over again is not the same thing as no proof being offered.
It just means, unsurprisingly, that you disagree with what has been offered.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)The fact that Bernie talked mainly about economic justice at the start of the campaign was that that nobody else in the race was talking about it. It was what made his candidacy distinctive. It never meant he saw fighting against institutional racism as LESS IMPORTANT than fighting against economic injustice.
His miscalculation was in assuming that his lifetime record(not just the Sixties part that you continue to sneer at in your tagline for no good reason, since Bernie never claimed he was MLK's equal in the freedom struggle) of anti-racist activism spoke for itself.
Compared to HRC founding the DLC, which was essentially a white supremacist organization(that's the only way you can describe the DLC's insistence that Democrats leave unchallenged the right-wing equation of blackness with criminality, out-of-wedlock parenting, and welfare fraud), how can you feel greater outrage over what was and wasn't in a stump speech?
I respect your right to support whoever you support, but you don't need to accuse Bernie of a failing he doesn't have to do that.
mythology
(9,527 posts)I think his campaign has had trouble reaching the minority vote or the votes of women, but that's more a matter of message or approach.
Sanders has long stood up for both groups. That said, he really does need to change his low polling with minorities if he wants to make a run at winning the nomination.
But as for women, he did really well with younger women in Iowa. It's a pretty good sign that he is able to connect with at least a subset of women.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)And they are addressing it. Acting like it isn't a problem is naive and stupid. Luckily the Sanders team knows this better than you do.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/the-bernie-bros#.jg5PWoDO16
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-35422316
Live by the Redditors, die by the Redditors.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)I think it is the unfortunate reality of being a left-populist anti-establishment candidate that Bernie going to attract some legitimately angry working class white men pissed off at the current corporate stranglehold on the country but also have problematic attitudes towards women and racial minorities due to unconscious prejudices caused by male and white privilage. Hillary, being the Establishment candidate, does not have the same "angry white male populist" problem.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)One that needs to be acknowledged and addressed. Like Sen. Sanders' campaign is doing. I am not sure why you had to issue an edict that DU not discuss it.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)or tarring him as a candidate or person with false accusations of weakness on anti-oppression issues.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)I think it's important that the campaign try hard to stop it, which it seems they are doing. These mobs really can and do cause people to turn away from their candidate - whether that's logical or reasonable matters not. What matters is they can and do hurt him. And they're working on it. I think it's helpful for other supporters to stand up and acknowledge it exists and it's shameful and wrong rather than try to tell people to just STFU about it.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Bernie is as anti-oppression as anybody.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)We can discuss it like adults.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)They're just flinging it... I haven't had any stick to me YET!
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)and other professional right wing liars to produce a dirty right wing style campaign.
At least he will be prepared for the way Republicans campaign, after all, she is giving him the crash course in how to face the Rove playbook.
Remember, Rove was the master at turning a candidates positive qualities, such as Sanders' good record on the above issues and reversing the reality portraying him as the opposite via lies and swift-boat tactics. He has been a civil rights and equality advocate his entire life, so just as Rove would, that is where she is attacking.
It is no wonder she has been so reliant on David Brock these days. he helps them chart these right wing waters while she pretends to be the opposite of what she really is, a Right wing politician flip-flopping into a rhetorical progressive, often using Sanders rhetoric to do it.
Surrogates, astrotrurf web operatives and dark money smear ads are where her strengths lie in this primary. I remember she tried the same crap on Obama and even threw in racist dog whistles and crowed about how hard working the white voters were - now trying to portray herself as activist for POC (one that once spoke of superpredators and used coded welfare queen reform advocacy) - total hypocrisy. Not to mention her many, many proud announcements of how she opposed marriage equality to anyone who would listen then while now pretending to be a lifelong champion of LGBT.
It is so obvious and cynical that it is no wonder she has something like a 53% unfavorability rating, a rating I might add that has never won a general election in this country, not once. I guess as long as her sponsors don't have to deal with Sanders fighting the 1% with a Republican in office if her tricks do work in he primary, the future checks will still be forthcoming and her ever increasing personal wealth assured after she is defeated in the GE.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It'll help them sleep at night if they feel they can blame Clinton's GE loss on 'those damn racist and sexist pretend Democrats'.
JPnoodleman
(454 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)and I like sex. EXCUSE MEEEEEEEE !
LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)So I hope they keep right on going, step up the attacks even.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Her supporters reflect the character of their candidate. They knowingly support a candidate who went full-on racist against Obama.
I expect nothing from them except more race and gender baiting, since she has no substantive appeal or excitement.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)The Democratic Party cannot afford to get caught up in racial politics. We need to turn a deaf ear to all this nonsense.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)How supporters of any candidate act? Or what supporters of one candidate think about supporters of another candidate?
They have no influence on how I vote.
They can think what they want.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)..I'm a woman in a mixed race family and we all support Bernie. So I guess we don't care about race and gender equality.
Eko
(7,351 posts)while you call them out for stereotyping Sanders supporters?
MisterP
(23,730 posts)criticisms of the new neoliberal orthodoxy: the Dems didn't appeal to the RW populists, nor should they, but they tossed anyone making under $40K into the rubbish and went off looking for smart, soft-hands work like IT, entertainment, and Wall Street
there's even the positive glee among the Lena Dunham types that the White middle class's dying--that it's coming to them after decades of subsidizing (that is a SJW, ironically: doubly ironically they're all lilywhite suburban sophomores who'd lecture a hypothetical gay Brazilian campesino activist crippled by the ranchers on his cis privilege): this type gets nothing done and is proud of it, a photonegative of the political sadist or the Asshole Uncle screaming at one thing over hate radio even though yesterday's declaration was the opposite
it also reduces voters, boils them down to pushable buttons: she'll drink White tears for one audience and go Rahm for another, and that definitely won't help civil society!
jalan48
(13,883 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)Yeah, the "sexist-racist" crap is tiring.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)IF you tell a lie long enough, loud enough to enough people, the lie becomes the truth.
IF Bernie just stayed in Congress and did his work there, Hillbots wouldn't be dragging his name through the mud.
Sanders/O'Malley 2016! The Dream ticket! with:
Warren as Sec of Labor
Reich as Sec. of Treasury
Gore as Sec. of Interior
Richardson Sec of State
Clack as Sec. of Defense
Kucinich as Sec. of HUD
This is one of the most important elections ever! And Bernie is right person, right time!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)I don't know who do include as:
Atty General
Surgeon General
Sec. of Education
Sec. of HHS
Sec. of VA Affairs
Sec. of Agriculture
Sec. of Transportation
Sec. of Homeland Security
EPA Chief
Chief of State
I am racking my brain over this.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)We never really needed them in the first place. We did fine before them, as long as the admin wasn't just ignoring intel they didn't like.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)Past time for them to go since, as you said, we never really needed them in the first place.
Even the name of that organization creeps me out.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)as soon as the primaries are over. I'm thinking about joining him since unaffiliated voters in my state can still participate in party primaries. I don't understand how people think you can tell them to go to hell and still expect that person to stand with them. Everything I have just said was expressed without emotion and on just the facts of the situation .
billhicks76
(5,082 posts)It's one thing to always lie or try to deceive sheep by falsely labeling herself a Progressive (biggest joke of the season) but to call actual Progressives racist or sexist just shows how stupid her campaigners are. Independents are already turned off to her and will not vote for her but labeling Bernie supporters racist will make many of them stay home on Election Day especially the non-activist types who don't give a crap about being banned from websites for not towing the party line. Most of these voters are not committed to the political process and it doesn't matter when leaders say they better support the nominee no matter who it is. This is called reality whether we like it or not. People will stay home. Maybe no one here but we are a sliver of a sliver of the electorate. And by the way Clinton's policies are the most racist in her support of the drug war.
humbled_opinion
(4,423 posts)Honey Badgers....
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I phone banked tonight with a group that was mostly women, mostly hispanic. I was the only white woman in the crowd.
Yeah, we're racist and sexist all right.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)get over their contempt for the center right's complete lack of integrity
They've pushed much of the Democratic party intelligentsia, who were already fed up with center right control of our party, over the edge.
Democratic party membership is going to substantially decline in the next year because of their Fox News induced hatred for all things left of right center.
seaglass
(8,173 posts)Why don't you show some and either apologize for your comment or scurry off with your tail between your legs?
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1251467790#post50
Star Member Zorra (25,427 posts)
3. I've already resigned myself to a complete republican takeover of the government in
2016.
All these threats and the race nagging has truly driven me to not give a shit anymore.
I'll vote for bernie in the primary and then maybe join the Green party if he doesn't win.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)...I've been too afraid to say it because I know it would bring down angry denunciations against me.''
You should post this in Good Reads.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)and this is one of them.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)...that calling someone a racist, sexist, bigot, etc. was useful as a political tool to silence our opponents, whether it was the truth or not.
This circus world where those words have become absolutely meaningless, is of our own making. Today's young people don't even know what racism or sexism is, because in their lifetime they've heard that EVERYTHING is racist, sexist, etc.
The chickens are home to roost; unfortunately I saw this coming years ago and we have no one to blame but ourselves that our party eats our own.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)has a race problem.
As long as he emphasizes class over race, he'll have a problem.
He'll continue to have this problem and it will continue to hurt him as the Democratic electorate gets more diverse as we go along in these primaries.
Lorien
(31,935 posts)she can't possibly run on her record and win:
Hillary wants to attack Iran: http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clinton-if-im-president-we-will-attack-iran/5460484
Hillary pushed Fracking on the rest of the planet: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron
Hillary and childhood poverty: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/the_worst_thing_hillary_clinton_has_ever_done/
What Hillary calls "feminism" : https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/hillary-clinton-womens-rights-feminism/
Hillary takes millions in campaign cash from her "enemies": http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/14/hillary-takes-millions-in-campaign-cash-from-enemies
Bernie has a MUCH better record of accomplishments as Senator than Hillary does: https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-got-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/
When you ask me to vote for Hillary: https://medium.com/@Lookingforrobyn/when-you-ask-me-to-vote-for-hillary-174becdb5ccc#.2ixs3cg5o
Hillary's legacy of pushing the party to the right: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33869-hillary-clinton-s-ghosts-a-legacy-of-pushing-the-democratic-party-to-the-right
Chomsky: Democrats are now moderate Republicans: http://trofire.com/2015/09/23/noam-chomsky-dems-are-now-moderate-repugs-republicans-are-now-off-the-spectrum-of-reality/
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)No one is calling Sanders a racist but there are valid reasons why some voters are not accepting Sanders as a good candidate. One reason may be the vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics
On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only hed fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.
They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.
On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.
It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.
Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. I do not believe that Sanders is a racist but I also believe that there are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democrats are not supporting Sanders.
kath
(10,565 posts)Hillary Clinton's Internet Supporters Desperately Want This Campaign to be about Sexism
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/hillary-clintons-internet-supporters-desperately-w.html
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Anderson Cooper and Rachel Maddow for fucks sake. Stop it.