I know DU is Bernie Country, but in response to an earlier thread about Rachel's Interview of HRC

[politicaljunkie41910]

I submit the following:

Anyone who thinks that disenfranchised members of the GOP, Independents, or Non-Trump Supporters are going to vote for a self-professed Socialist, regardless of how he describes himself today, is delusional. Bernie, with his laundry list of freebees and government giveaways, cannot win in a General Election. The nation is BROKE and cannot afford Bernie Sanders, and a GOP controlled Congress is not going to vote through Bernie Sanders laundry list of new entitlement programs. People here who think that Bernie Sanders can win when Democrats don’t control either House of Congress, and while we might have a chance of regaining the Senate in 2016 if all the stars align, we have little to no chance of controlling the House of Representatives before the next Census is taken in 2020, (due to gerrymandering), and the possibility of subsequent redistricting should be successful in 2022. Anyone who thinks otherwise, is delusional.

I saw the thread earlier today regarding Rachel Maddow’s comments that Bernie Sanders doesn’t have any enemies. I say any politician who doesn’t have any enemies, hasn’t tried to accomplish anything Big. Trying to do BIG things creates enemies, which is why Bill and Hillary have plenty.

Bernie who hails from 96% white Vermont, has spent much of his lifetime as first, mayor of a small town and about 25 years in Congress between both Houses, with his socialist agenda and WHAT BIG THING does he have to show for it. What BIG agenda item has he sponsored, that has passed. And yes I know about Bernie’s Civil Rights background and I only bring up the point about Vermont’s ethnic background to make the point that Bernie represents a homogenous group of constituents who look and think like he does which has enabled his political successes thus far. The Presidency is a whole new ballgame.

Bernie and his 'socialist' ideas have not been fully vetted because he hasn’t been a threat to anybody before now. You can sit in the House as one of 435 voting members and have radical ideas as long as you pose no threat to anyone or anything. You can be sure as a General Election candidate he will be fully vetted, as will his laundry list of government giveaways, and Democrats will lose.

I know he likes to tout the fact that he has a large backing of young people who are active members of his campaign. Are these the same young people who are looking for a free college education or student loan forgiveness after racking up tens of thousands of dollars of student loans. The GOP is never going to allow this to happen as long as they are in charge, and as long as the Democratic Party looks like it’s the party of “Free Stuff” at other people’s expense we are never going to regain control of the House of Representatives. The nation is broke. The stock market is down more than 8% since the first of the year and people are fearful for their own jobs and funding of retirement savings. There is NO MONEY for Freebies. Stop the Insanity that perpetuates the myth that we can do all these things that Bernie is proposing.

[emulatorloo]

1. Please stop with the "free stuff". Nothing is free, and Bernie has a way to pay for

all the programs he's proposing.

[JRLeft]

3. There quite a few Mitt Romney's on this site lately.

[emulatorloo]

4. No kidding!

Great way to put it.

[JRLeft]

6. Expected, due to the corporate democrats on this site.

[politicaljunkie41910]

22. I'm not a corporate democrat. I just happen to have a degree in Accounting and understand how

balance sheets work. I highly recommend everyone should know how.

[catnhatnh]

33. Really

Because then you should realize it's different when you can adjust interest rates, levy taxes, and print currency...

[JRLeft]

36. Exactly, one thing we need to do reduce the war budget.

We could allocate those funds elsewhere.

[enid602]

128. military

JR, I think you're on to something. Bernie's proposals WOULD be more doable if we could siphon a great deal of money from military spending. Why isn't Bernie calling for a drastic change from military to domestic spending? That would be an honest debate. Just presenting a laundry list of costly promises, without fully addressing funding is not.

[JRLeft]

129. I believe the entire party should advocate massive cuts in the war budget.

[politicaljunkie41910]

41. Perhaps you're the one who needs to realize that one of our Chief Bankers, the Chinese

are in pretty bad financial condition at this time.

[pangaia]

85. I just happen to have four degrees--

in music. BM, MM, DMA, PhD

I know how shit works also.

[Armstead]

94. The maybe you'll acknowledge that we've been removing our revenjue sources needlessly....

for 30 years to allow the rich to have enough money to create good jobs for Americans. Except ibnstead, they have takebn the money, removerd or dervalued those jobs and buy themselves 30 vacation estates, leaving a larger number of Americans wondering how to pay the mortage on a single home or the rent on a crappy apartment while also paying those other bills that seem to keep going up.

And, gee, with all those tax breaks for the wealthy, and giveaway trade deals and corporate subsidies and a rigged financial system we're hurting for money in the public till too.

Yeah and you begrudge college kids who are told they "have to get an education to survive today" but can;t find ways to afford thasst, and want a break

Sure we need accounting and fiscal responsibility all of that. But we've gone overboard in that diorection over the last 35 years. It that has to be balanced by a basic sense of morality, ethics and social responsibility in our policies.

Enough conservative bean counting.

[Matariki]

112. Which is so obvious and for which, predictably, you'll not get an answer

[roguevalley]

66. what a mournful OP. I am astonished over and over that there are

people on this site that denigrate lefties like they do. None of the positions that bernie holds are out of the realm of democratic politics. What a terrible op. I cannot agree more with you, JRLeft. Free stuff. All the rest. I cannot believe it. Character attacks. Nothing was left out. This is just impossibly awful. I will never vote for that woman. I will write in his name if he doesn't win because the system doesn't give a flying fig about us the voters. As for the kids, they finally have a candidate that they want. They will come. He will win.

[blue neen]

144. Hmm.

"I will never vote for that woman."

"That woman"

[leftofcool]

5. Yes taxes. So, where is his tax plan?

Before I vote, let me see how much my taxes will be going up and what I will be paying for. Let me see what he plans to do with my little 401K that while small is back up retirement. It's the fair thing to do if you are asking for people to vote for you.

[emulatorloo]

8. Gonna watch Sunday's debate, hope you will too

Agreed is a fair thing to ask.

I don't care for the re-cycled "free stuff" meme though. Got sick of it when thrown at Obama.

[leftofcool]

13. I never miss!

Hell I even watch the Republican debates. Entertainment, ya know.

[emulatorloo]

17. Me too!

Unfortunately had to miss last nights R debate, but clips have had lots of entertainment value for sure.

[Skwmom]

76. It is the people's money. Amazing how there is always money for corporate welfare.

[riversedge]

123. As of today he has only thrown out crumbs as to how he would pay for his health "plan"

[uponit7771]

133. +1, other than you want have to pay preimiums which doesn't explain how Sanders plan will pay for...

... single payer

[uponit7771]

132. This is false on its face

[pangaia]

2. freebies, 96% white. socialist,, excuse me 'self-proclaimed socialist,'

no enemies, nothing big, nation is broke, Free Stuff, Insanity,

I don't know where to begin.
SO-- Let me just close with this...

Boston Red Sox 2004.

[roguevalley]

67. I love you, pangaia. It's impossible isn't it, this op.

[pangaia]

84. I'm speechless....

[hrmjustin]

7. Sanders has not been tested, Hillary has been.

While I think his goals are laudable and I think he should fight for them, I don't think he can them through congress.

And I am not sure he will be willing to make the compromises a president needs to make.

I am not willing to take the chance on him.

[scottie55]

15. He Can't Get Them Through Congress - Right

Millions of us can though.

Millions upon millions upon millions.

The Revolution is upon us.

More of the same isn't gonna cut it this time.

[hrmjustin]

16. How? How will he get his ideas through gop house and a gop filibuster?

[scottie55]

25. I Turned The Answer Into A Post Before You Asked

Follow the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511012534

Millions of us can change the direction of our great nation. With Bernie's help.

It's not about him, it's about us.

It's our future, and our children's future, the billionaires want to steal.


It's our time. Their time is over.

[hrmjustin]

26. The gop congress will not go along.

He will have to compromise to get his agenda through.

[snoringvoter]

28. He won't have to, if he brings big enough coattails to the party.

Believe me, the House and the Senate are there for the taking. If Americans really believe in Bernie, you can bet your bottom dollar that Bernie's bringing a few pals to the party to do a massive check on reality: Left or right?

If both Senate and House are retaken, the party is heading to the right direction, as in heading back to the left after 35+ years of lurching to the right.

[hrmjustin]

32. Sorry but that is not realistic. Sanders can not switch the house and the gop

will still be able to filibuster.

The house is not ready to fall. Gerrymandering!

[roguevalley]

68. 'realistic' is settling for tenth place because the idea of change only belongs to the

rich. This is a revolution and in the middle of one some never see it coming. HRC does, hence her flailing. I will be there when he wins to help him. You can help too but even if you don't, you will reap the benefit. You're welcome.

[hrmjustin]

71. Sorry but I don't think Sanders can do it.

I think Hillary is the way to go.

[scottie55]

100. Hooray For The Status Quo And Lobbyist And Corporate Rule

Hear, hear.

[hrmjustin]

101. Then explain how he gets things done.

[scottie55]

104. With Millions Of Us

Demanding Change. Not taking no for an answer. Ever.

Not letting the Republicans get away with murder like they have been doing recently.

The Republicans take no prisoners. The Democrats are pretty much spineless in almost every instance.

With a real leader, Democrats (other than Grayson) may actually grow a pair (I hope).

Imagine a Justice Department that actually prosecuted people like Ted Cruz for lying about his campaign loans which is actually a crime. A Democratic Senate that removed Clarence Thomas for lying about his wife's income. Another crime.

To hell with this go along to get along crap we have had to deal with.

To hell with the "only poor black people go to prison" pathetic "justice" system.

Remember they impeached Clinton for his blow job "statements", but let Bush off with his lies about WMD's. Never mind all the warnings he ignored before 9-11, and his no bid crony contracts.

I could go on, but you get my drift.

It won't be easy.

The only question remaining is "Is America Worth It?"

I say yes.

[CajunBlazer]

143. Your "millions" are 5% to 10% of the population at best

Not impressive!

[politicaljunkie41910]

35. Yes, I guess you have been asleep for a long time. There is no way the Dems retake the House

anytime before 2020, let alone 2016. The majority of House members are in safe gerrymandered districts, and the majority of states are run by GOP Governors. We'll be lucky to win the Senate as I said earlier, if all the stars align. However, the House still controls the purse strings.

[snoringvoter]

43. Gerrymandering CAN be defeated.

Just need the right mood, right candidate. That candidate is Bernie, and he can bring fresh new blood in the Senate and the House.

Watch the results, and you'd be very confident of that statement I just made.

[hrmjustin]

47. Even if you got a Democratic congress what makes you think you can get it through?

Remember that if we do win the house it will be with moderate and conservative Democrats in swing districts. What if they don't want to play ball?

I am not saying we shoukd not try but i think we should be realistic.

[Samantha]

52. You are exactly correct

Gerrymandering can be overcome by a win greater than 7 points.

Sam

[Sheepshank]

117. Bernie has never had coat tails, does not know how to party build

...and in fact damages the Dem brand. He doesn't do anything to help down ticket candidates.

[hrmjustin]

122. He didn't raise one dime for the party.

Tells me all I need to know.

[scottie55]

29. Like Obama Compromised?

Millions of us will have to force "change" down their billionaire supporting throats.

It won't be pretty.

Nothing good comes easy.

[hrmjustin]

34. It may make you feel better to repeat that but it does not answer my question.

How will you get a gop congress to vote to raise taxes and put in univeral healthcare?

[scottie55]

50. By Having Millions Of Us

Make their lives a living hell for blocking justice.

It can be done.

It will be done.

Now are you playing, or just getting in the way?

For starters have every single Democrat start calling them murderers for denying millions of Americans health care.

How many have died needlessly in Texas.

[hrmjustin]

53. I can call my gop congressman every name in the book and he still won't vote for

Sanders bills.

Sorry but your plan is not going to work.

[roguevalley]

69. according to you. Your vision is down. Ours is up. We know what we have to do

to make our gutless shit heels do the right thing. We're ready to do it.

[hrmjustin]

73. I know my congressman and I know what he will and won't do.

[Ed Suspicious]

87. Well, then I guess you ain't doing it right.

[hrmjustin]

93. That is a ridiculous answer. My congressman is in no danger of losing his seat.

He won't listen to us.

[Ed Suspicious]

96. They way you've participated in this thread is absolutely ridiculous, naysaying every worthwhile

idea.

[hrmjustin]

97. Sorry if I am raining on your parade but I don't buy the narrative Sanders supporters here

are putting forth.

[scottie55]

105. We Will Do To The Republicans

What the tea baggers did to reason.

Make life unbearable.

[hrmjustin]

106. Do you mean protesting at their offices?

[Empowerer]

108. Why aren't you doing it now?

[scottie55]

109. I Probably Have Made 300 Phone Calls

To Republican Congresspeople.

I may even run for congress.

I am that pissed off.

[99Forever]

54. You're trying to convince a charter member of...

...the Surrender Without Trying Wing of the Democratic Party.

They prefer to rot our society slowly to fighting to solve the problems.

[hrmjustin]

59. You seem nice.

[roguevalley]

70. it fits.

[hrmjustin]

74. Oh it doesn't bother me what you guys think of me.

I know what I believe and I know what I stand for. If it makes you feel better to put me down it reflects on you not me.

Not all liberals feel the bern or want to.

[TheFarS1de]

131. Oh it doesn't bother us what you think of us.

We know what we believe and we know what Sanders stands for. If it makes you feel better to put Sanders down it reflects on you not us.

Not all liberals feel the status quo or want to.

[Hiraeth]

130. Some people are still fairly comfortable in this society. Why rock the boat? -

I think it is a matter of "the devil they know vs. the devil they don't know" ... not that Bernie is a devil.

They fear change. They are not uncomfortable enough and don't really care about those with less.

[99Forever]

138. Kind of a nice way of saying:

I've got mine, screw everyone else.

[Hiraeth]

139. well, we ARE nicer than they are, right

[redstateblues]

99. The Revoluuuushun is upon us!(insert waving arms)

Gonna take more than slogans. With our divided electorate and Congress any change will be incremental. The notion that Bernie will usher in a Socialist Utopia is not realistic. As long as progressives don't vote in midterms and fail to take back state houses nothing will change. Currently there are no down ballot Socialists.

[pangaia]

90. " Sanders has not been tested, Hillary has been."

Tested? Tested? Tested.. for what? SARS? What? I call bull shit.

"While I think his goals are laudable and I think he should fight for them,.."

Then VOTE for him !!! Fuck, man. How simple a concept is that?


"And I am not sure he will be willing to make the compromises...."

I do not want the kind if chicken shit compromises corporatists and cowards make.

"I am not willing to take the chance on him...."

Alexander I took a chance on Michael Andreas Barclay de Tolly. The result changed history!
I AM willing to take a chance on Bernie Sanders.

If we don't we are FUCKED !!

When I would walk on stage in front of 3000 people I TOOK A CHANCE.. Life is a chance.. You only get one. And THIS is the last chance we have.

[hrmjustin]

95. I am not voting for him in the primary. Never going to happen.

The Republic will survive without Sanders as president.

[hobbit709]

121. And found wanting.

[riversedge]

124. Yes, Hillary has been tested for decades, here and abroad and has learned along the way. I trust her

[hrmjustin]

125. I trust her as well.

She is not perfect but I trust her to do the job well.

[Thinkingabout]

126. I am with you, tested and vetted, she is still strong and qualified.

[scottie55]

9. "The nation is broke"

Bull.

The wealthy have 50 trillion dollars or more piled to the moon.

They can easily pay off our entire national debt, and they wouldn't even miss the money.

We are not broke.

We just don't tax wealth like other nations do.

We're not broke, we're stupid.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/23/super-rich-hide-21-trillion-offshore-study-says/#2715e4857a0b6b14e8db73d3

Actually the article says up to 31 trillion in offshore accounts. And this is just cash. Not stocks, bonds, real estate, or politicians they own.

[Triana]

24. "We're not broke, we're stupid."

Damn right. And the greedy ROBBER BARONS know it.

[Autumn]

10. There is NO MONEY for Freebies sounds just like any republican in Congress

and the Senate. I salute you for standing with them against the "government giveaways" the white guy from Vermont is pushing.

[winterwar]

78. Yes

Great response!

[Hoyt]

11. I think we can do a lot of what Sanders is talking about, with someone who knows

how to get stuff done, even if by twisting arms. But you are right that the "freebies" will scare the heck out of a lot of people. If the economy is still weak at election time, folks won't take a chance with Sanders. Sanders supporters can make a good case it shouldn't be that way, but it just is.

[questionseverything]

27. actually when the economy is in he toilet

we need a safety net more than ever

[Hoyt]

79. But as we saw with the last one GOPERS use being in toilet as a reason to deny safety net,

Not saying it's right, just that it is.

[questionseverything]

114. i refuse to make my decisions based on what the gop might do

this beautiful idea of democracy,one person one vote, that WE THE PEOPLE decide our own destiny is too embedded in me

[Hoyt]

115. And I want to avoid another George McGovern or Dukakis landslide loss with so much at stake.

And yes, if Sanders is nominee I'll support him while preparing for inevitable.

[Trajan]

12. Whew! ... Good thing you are here!

Oh .. wait ... No ... I was wrong ...

This is where a normal person would read you the riot act, and perhaps toss some brusque and salty comments your way ...

Me? ... I'm just glad you laid down this ridiculous diatribe, and laid the completely fallacious argument before us ... You are naked to us now ...

And just like that - Gone ... Like a fart in a hurricane ...

[WillyT]

14. Hey Everybody... Check Out The Recs...

[hollysmom]

18. I didn't know you could rec your own topic, I will have to try that sometime

[blue neen]

142. Ok. Took your advice.

Did that. What am I supposed to find there?

[Bjorn Against]

19. The claim that our nation is broke is a right-wing lie

Our nation is far from being broke, in fact we are among the wealthiest nations in the history of this planet. We have huge amounts of wealth, the problem is that most of it is being hoarded by a relatively small number of greedy assholes.

Bernie has the highest approval rating of any member of the Senate, he wins his elections with an overwhelming majority of Democrats and independents and even a substantial number of Republicans.

Your post is flat out false in more ways than one.

[FreakinDJ]

20. You could not be MORE WRONG

[Triana]

21. The nation is NOT "broke"

The problem is that about 400 very wealthy families and lots of corporate entities are hoarding ALL THE MONEY and they REFUSE to pay their fair share of tax on it. In many cases, such as GE, they pay NO TAXES on their enormous profits.

We ain't broke, honey. We've been ROBBED and it's time to bring the ROBBER BARONS to their knees and TAKE. OUR. NATION. AND. OUR. MONEY. BACK.

The only person who realizes this and is willing to do anything about it is BERNIE SANDERS. And as far as 'freebies', he's made very clear how we can provide free public college to anyone - and as far as universal or single-payer healthcare or Medicare for all, that would be MORE affordable than the patched-together, expensive, ineffective profit-and-greed-driven system we have now. How do I know that? BECAUSE EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY has already done it.

So your assertion that Sanders is giving away a "basket of freebies" is also bullshit. We are NOT broke and we CAN afford every bit of this.

That the nation is "broke" is a conservative talking point meant to trick Americans into agreeing to cuts to vital social programs, public education, research, and other needed public services. It's bullshit.

From HuffingtonPost via Michael Moore:

America is not broke.

Contrary to what those in power would like you to believe so that you'll give up your pension, cut your wages, and settle for the life your great-grandparents had, America is not broke. Not by a long shot. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich.

Today just 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/america-is-not-broke_b_832006.html


From the Center for American Progress:

Really, we’re not broke.

The notion that the United States is “broke” is a popular talking point for conservative lawmakers. They use the claim to justify cuts in government services for middle-class Americans and those with whom they have ideological quarrels. Speaker of the House of Representatives, John Boehner (R-OH), for example, likes to say that the United States is “broke, going on bankrupt,” which is why he says we absolutely have to slash government services such as poison control centers, meat inspections, law enforcement funding, afterschool programs, and disease research.

But we’re not broke. Not at all. If we were, it would mean that we were out of money, unable to pay our bills, or meet our financial obligations. We are none of those things. A recent article by David J. Lynch of Bloomberg News points out that, actually, the United States continues to meet every one of its financial obligations with no trouble at all. The federal government is able to borrow funds at historically low interest rates. And those historically low rates apply to both short-term borrowing and long-term borrowing, indicating that lenders not only don’t believe the United States is broke right now, but also don’t see bankruptcy anywhere on the horizon.

The United States is an extremely low-tax country compared to the other economically advanced countries in the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development. Over the past five years, the United States ranked 29th out of 33 member countries of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development in total tax revenue as a share of our economy, with only South Korea, Turkey, Mexico, and Chile collecting less than us. In fact, U.S. tax revenues were a full 8 percentage points of gross domestic product below the average OECD developed or developing country.

. . .

Combining Canada-level revenue with the spending levels in the president’s fiscal year 2012 budget plan would produce an immediate budget surplus that would grow from about 0.6 percent of GDP in 2012 to 1.6 percent of GDP by 2021.* At that rate, debt as a share of GDP would fall from 63 percent currently to under 40 percent 10 years from now. In fact, we could even get to a balanced budget by 2015 with revenue levels about 1 percentage point lower than Canada’s.

It’s worth noting that having a somewhat higher overall level of tax revenue hasn’t done Canada any harm either. From 2000 through 2007 median family income in Canada rose by 8.6 percent, after accounting for inflation. Meanwhile, back here in the even-lower tax United States, median family income was essentially flat during that period, and then, of course, it plummeted during the Great Recession.

The United States is not broke. On the contrary, we have enormous economic resources at our disposal. We could, if we chose to, fully pay for every service, program, and benefit that the federal government provides without borrowing a single penny. We could do so and still be a relatively low-tax country—simply by raising the same amount of revenue, or even a bit less, as our northern neighbor does.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2011/03/21/9347/were-not-broke/

[tishaLA]

23. howany times can "socialist" appear in a post

As if it were a curse word?

I'm not a Sanders supporter necessarily--I'm unaffiliateda nd , because I'm in CA and we have a late primary, I will be content to vote for the nominee and do my fighting after the primaries--but I believe this cartoonish representation of him insulting.

None of our candidates is without flaws, but I'll be Damned if the flaws that convince me are the same a republican would cite.

[bkkyosemite]

30. polictical junk........oh... sorry...junkie...

[onecaliberal]

31. Republicans HATE the Clinton with the intensity of ten thousand white hot Suns

They will come out against her in droves. Not to mention HRC is alienating so many people of her supporters aren't careful they're going to elect president tRump.

[uponit7771]

134. And hate Obama with the same number of super novas, so what ... republicans hate.. that's what they

... do

[immoderate]

37. Bernie's not really a socialist. That blows your argument, doesn't it?

--imm

[politicaljunkie41910]

45. It may surprise you that I actually know what a socialist is. It was Bernie who brandished himself

as a socialist for all these years. The fact that he has rebranded himself, by redefining what if means to be a socialist is his problem not mine.

[roguevalley]

72. you seem to think socialism is a problem. My grandpa was a socialist. he was as great a man

as bernie and truer to his credo than all the other goons that profess character but will take a buck for a vote.

[immoderate]

86. It's not really a problem. Not for nobody. Only a labeling problem.

So we know he's not a socialist.

--imm

[Bluenorthwest]

120. You mean 'branded himself'. Brandished is the past tense of 'brandish' a verb meaning to wave or

wield an object, usually a weapon, in a threatening manner. To take on a label is to brand one's self, the past tense of which is 'branded'. Considering current events, it is worth noting that this is language adopted from the cattle industry practice of 'branding cattle' for identification among free grazing herds. But I digress.
I offer this because it is far better when touting one's understanding of the meaning of words to do so by using words which actually mean the right things. Brandished is a word, it's just not the right one, and that lets us know that you know the word but not the meaning of the word, this is exactly the opposite of the point you are trying to make, that when you use the word 'socialist' you know what it means. Your own misuse of the language gives me good reason to doubt that you actually do know what the word 'socialist' means. See what I mean?

[ChiciB1]

38. YOU Needed To Watch Thom Hartmann Tonight!

There were THREE guests, 2 doctors and another guest from Public Citizen. One doctor is the Head of the Doctors Association that has over 20,000 member and growing. He stated that THEY want AND KNOW that what Bernie's proposing his much more economical and much more fair to everyone. One of the guests made a comment that 1 in 16 people die within a very small period of time (can't remember the time frame, but might be one minute) because they have insufficient or NO Health Care. Each one said that they favored to simply go ALL IN and don't do it incrementally. One of the main reasons they said this besides the fact that everyone will have health is that doing piece by piece still causes outsiders problems. Everyone agrees that Health Care For All is THE VERY BEST way to go. They ALL agree with Bernie and support what he's offering and say it WILL VERY DEFINITELY SAVE more so much more money.

I can't quote word for word, not technical enough to provide links, but I'm sure you can go to his website and see the whole interview for yourself. It's the 2nd half of his program! You might understand better!

I wholly disagree with your characterization of who and what Bernie is proposing. What we have now IS NOT helping "we the people" most people know it, so WHY vote for the same damn thing we have now?? Makes NO SENSE and people are understanding it more and more.

[politicaljunkie41910]

48. Just because I'm a realist about what we can and cannot achieve at this time politically

doesn't mean that I'm not in favor of universal health care or Medicare for all. I, just happen to believe, as HRC does, that we cannot get it through a GOP controlled House and Senate at this time. So the reality of it is, we'll have to take baby steps to fix the problem, small bites instead of trying to swallow the elephant whole.

[Armstead]

98. "at this time".....it's NEVER the correct timer according to conservaDems

Been hearing that bullshit since 1980.

The GOP alweays eems to have the faith that it's the right time for their goals. Even when they are in the minority they fight back.

Dems? Not so much. Always a damn excuse.

[Samantha]

57. You are, pardon the expression, right on the money

Yes, many doctors do support single payer because they are sick and tired of the wasted time on all the paperwork. Additionally, they decided to be doctors because they wanted to help people, not turn them away because they could not pay. It is so difficult to imagine the pleasure of needing to go to see a doctor, just show up and get treated, go home and get well. This is what doctors want, and this what people want. It is not what the health insurance providers want nor the pharmaceuticals because there is no money in it for them.

People are tired of being sick and tired.

Sam

[edgineered]

39. Well that settles it.

How could I not have seen this before?
From now on I will worship either weathervanes, republicans, junkies, or porcelain gods.

[Arugula Latte]

40. Our taxes go to pay for useless wars and to subsidize giant corporations.

Why not use taxes to pay for education, healthcare, and infrastructure instead?

Why is it a given that "freebies" go to giant corporations, and nobody blinks an eye, but talk about helping regular people, and people freak?

[Dawson Leery]

42. Vermont is giving up on single payer as it costs too much:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511012215

[snoringvoter]

46. No, you can thank the Governor for weaseling out of the Single Payer plan.

Peter Shumlin is his name. Ask him what he did to his neighbor.

You can have this Hillary lackey.

[Kalidurga]

44. I am really getting tired of people who prefer dead people

Because dead people is what you get when you don't have universal health care, when you under-fund education, and when you refuse to pay people a living wage. So, this is what we are down to calculating the cost of keeping people alive with a good safety net, medical care, and education or letting them die or have a horrible quality of life since it might be cheaper.

[HassleCat]

49. Yeah, we're broke

And it's all the fault of socialists, immigrants and minorities. We need to elect level headed Democrats who will strengthen Wall Street and help those CEOs make more money. A rising tide lifts all boats. Greed is good.

[beam me up scottie]

51. The greatest hits compilation of stale talking points!

Socialist as a slur - check

Supporters are "delusional" - check

Free stuff! - check

Hasn't accomplished anything - check

White people!!1! - check

Alluding to as yet undiscovered skeletons in Bernie's closet - check

Obligatory millennial bashing - check

We should care what the republicans say because...reasons - check

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Impressive!

[cheapdate]

55. Regarding the senate, a 10 seat swing is required for nominal control,

a 20 seat swing is required for meaningful control. The deficit in the house is 34 seats.

It's very hard to imagine taking back control of either chamber in 2016. It's going to be an election where little changes. The Democrats could gain a few senate seats, that's all. The house makeup is not going to change by much at all.

[politicaljunkie41910]

62. It is the belief of many political pundits that the Dems have a chance at the Senate in 2016

because the GOP has a lot more seats to defend than the Dems in 2016 and the Senate seats up for grab being more diverse in soome of those states than the typical gerrymandered House seat. BTW, I learned that watching the Rachel Maddow show. After all, I am a Political Junkie.

[cheapdate]

63. That might be true, for nominal control, which is something.

But any genuine reform requires a supermajority in the senate, and a majority in the house, of course.

[Kentonio]

110. Unless we finally reform the senate rules.

For one thing, they should bring back the talking filibuster.

[uponit7771]

135. Thank you!! People are expecting an FDR president without and FDR congress

[cheapdate]

137. FDR had a good run, with a unified congress for something like 16 consecutive years.

[juxtaposed]

56. Democratic Socialist is what it's called, call it what it is. Stop the B/S, and RIGHT WING scare!!

tactics

[Maedhros]

58. What about all the polls showing that Bernie has crossover support amongst Republicans?

Never mind, you're just going to ignore the facts that don't fit your meme.

[Ino]

60. I submit the following...

Things I've bookmarked just for occasions such as this, not that I think you'll read them...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/6/1428616/-Bernie-Sanders-What-the-Hell-Have-You-Done-for-Us-Lately
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251605502
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251971984

Now, what are these BIG things Hillary has TRIED to do which have earned her so many enemies? And why didn't she actually ACCOMPLISH them? Except for this one big, unaccomplished thing, as an unelected FLOTUS...
http://billmoyers.com/story/tell-the-truth-about-bernies-health-care-stand/

Her task force huffed and puffed in secret for months, calling in legions of experts and academics, ultimately producing a plan so complicated and impenetrable – not to mention unexplainable – that it would have collapsed of its own ponderous weight even if the Republicans had not propagandized it into a laughing stock of pretensions and inefficiencies that could only make matters worse.

If, as you claim, Hillary has so many enemies because she has tried to do BIG things... how is she going to be effective? Maybe all those enemies explain this (from a 2008 article)...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-hanft/the-curious-myth-of-hilla_b_87613.html

an inability to get legislation passed is just the beginning of Senator Clinton's shallow record. For many of the bills she introduced, she couldn't even get a cosponsor in her own party!

Note that while her website proclaims that "She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefit to member of the National Guard and Reserves", she wasn't able to rustle up a single cosponsor for legislation that would have extended military retirement credit for National Guard Members called up after 9/11.

So Senator Clinton is right when she claims to be the experienced candidate, although it's not the experience she would like us to believe. It's a track record of legislative failure and futility.

If, as Hillary claims, the biggest of her many enemies is Republicans... how is SHE going to get anything done in a Republican-dominated Congress? Anyone who thinks Republicans will work with HER is delusional. Anyone who thinks Republicans won't turn out in droves to vote against her in a GE is delusional.

How will Hillary, who keeps a list of Democrats whom she hates, be able to work with them? Ms. Congeniality she's not.

And BTW, I think your comment that Sanders has been successful only because he's white, is very offensive both to him and his constituents.

[ebayfool]

65. This! ^^^^

TY for the bookmarks - my reading for the evening!

[Dawson Leery]

103. +1

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Posted to for later.

[Skwmom]

75. You are clueless. I live in a swing state and I know Republicans and Independents voting for Bernie

I'll tell you who these people won't vote for, an establishment Democrat.

A government that works for the people is a really radical idea.

And there is a hell of a lot more than just young people that support Bernie.

And I have Hispanic and Black friends that have supported him for months now.

[cantbeserious]

77. Ever More Fear, Uncertainty And Doubt - FUD

eom

[mikehiggins]

80. Not a Sanders fan?

Well, I guess we should all fold our tents and go home. Obviously NOTHING can be done to make anything better for anyone in this nation. We just have to shut up and be grateful that all that "free stuff" goes to the richest people in the world. We're just ungrateful slackers who have no idea what "we the people" means. We shouldn't dare take on the Powers the Be because they are so much more powerful and knowledgeable than we are.

Lets just let things go along the way they have, keep our heads down and keep our mouths shut.

That's much safer.

[JDPriestly]

81. What in the world did the Clintons achieve?

Staying in the White House for 8 years whatever the cost to the American people?

Think small -- that's the motto of the Clintons.

And what Bill Clinton did to our economy when he signed NAFTA and then Welfare "Reform" and the repeal of Glass-Steagall and lousy bill after lousy bill. And then you complain that there is NO MONEY???? Of course not. Not after the Clintons did what they did and George W. Bush finished off our job market and economy. No way.

Thanks to the Clintons and Barak Obama, unions are weaker now than ever and our economy is marked by extreme disparity between rich and poor. Our erstwhile middle class has also been weakened.

Yes. The Republicans are responsible. But they are either trapped in a sick ideology or members of the class that is profiting from the corruption that has permitted the development of such a disparity in wealth and income.

Almost as responsible and more reprehensibly so because they are not bound by a crazy ideology that requires them to do what they do, are the Democrats who give lip service to equality, to opportunity and to social justice when it is easy but who fail to stand up when courage is demanded.

The situation in Wisconsin in which faint protests of the DNC and the Obama administration to the destruction of labor union members' lives as they struggled to safeguard their rights -- that was shameful.

Face it. The American people are waking up to Bernie Sanders' call for justice.

This happens every once in a while. Think of the Civil War. Think of the populist movement that cleaned government and, for a short time attacked monopolies. Think of FDR and the reforms he began including Social Security.

I do not want to be rude. But I believe that it is time for another populist movement that will result in more social justice for people of color, immigrants, senior citizens frightened about their Social Security, young people struggling with student debt and those too ill or too poor or just not fitting the mold for the ACA who need health insurance and care.

It is time to rethink our justice system. We need to find a new way to deal with addiction, in our society, something that is organized around not just the justice system but community and healthcare.

We need to do more for young people who graduate from college with terrible debt and then who cannot find jobs.

We need to encourage more saving and discourage some of the borrowing.

We need higher wages for working people.

We need less reliance on imported goods.

Bernie is speaking to needs, not to frivolous wants, in our society.

My mother used to say: You need to know your needs from your wants.

She was very wise.

I would say that Bernie Sanders is a man who knows his personal wants from his needs and that, in addition to setting an example for America in that respect, will lead our country into understanding that, as a nation, discerning between our wants and our needs will FREE US, not enchain us.

Feel the Bern!

(I don't think any of us expect Bernie to achieve all that he is talking about in just four or eight short years. He is placing before us a platform that we can work toward as a society. I for one am fed up with seeing so many homeless on our streets, paying the exorbitant cost of medications that were developed a long time ago, etc. Bernie is focused on the future of America, on improving our environment so that our great-grandchildren will enjoy it, on caring for our needs and not just our momentary wants.)

Will America choose Bernie? Yes. Because he is honest about his views and does not hide his dreams. Americans are so sick of the pragmatic bores that are running in this election. The popularity of Trump of all people among Republicans and the growing popularity of Bernie on our side proves this.

We Democrats are looking for a leader who will give us hope. Bernie does that. Hillary does not. It is Hillary who will never win the Independent or Republican voters. She has no dream. She has no vision. She sounds as boring as she apparently thinks.

A lot of people who will vote for Bernie will just stay home if Hillary is the candidate.

I for one will vote for all the Democrats on my ballot except Hillary. To me, I might as well vote for a Republican as vote for Hillary. She is the one who will get nothing done. She projects as arrogant and uncaring. She will not get my vote.

[Warren DeMontague]

82. AND GET OFF MY LAWN!

We spend a trillion dollars a year on the military. We spend hundreds of millions on a drug war aimed at incarcerating millioms of people for things like pot smoking, that seemingly only Chris Christie and Debbie Wasserman Schultz support, although Hillary is somehow telling us she's going to find 10 billion more to ramp up the drug war and do things like arrest people for nonviolent drug use.

Single payer health care would SAVE us money.

So dont tell me we're "broke".

[Matariki]

83. "freebees", "government giveaways", "entitlement programs"

Did I accidentally wander into Republican Wonderland?

[Ed Suspicious]

107. Never seen anything quite like this. They've cast off all pretense. They own the Republican lexicon.

They now use it freely.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

88. You sound like a Republican

[uponit7771]

136. Or someone who's not taken in so easily with unicorn promises without a unicorn congress?

[Dretownblues]

89. Its sad

when democrats use republican talking points and fear mongering to try to shut down candidates that are a bit different then what we are normally used to. The absurdity of this post is a prime example of how far right the democratic party has really moved, not because of the OP, but because the candidate the OP supports is using the talking points he/she is parroting.

[mhatrw]

91. -300,000,000

You are so full of crap.

Americans are so sick of your crap.

Nobody likes Hillary Clinton. Nobody trusts Hillary Clinton. She is literally the worst possible candidate the Democrats could run and the only chance for anybody in the clown car to make it to the White House.

In contrast, the Democratic base will come out in droves if only they sense that their voting has a chance to enact real change rather than just more of the same.

And independents will choose Bernie 3-1 over anybody in the Repuke clown car with the possible exception of Kasich.

[slipslidingaway]

92. LIS, aka let it sink. nt

[Truprogressive85]

102. only a conservative would descirbe Healthcare, and education

as "freebies" or free stuff"

oh The stock market is down

Did the president not just tell us the economy is strong during his SOTU ,and he said anyone who says otherwise is telling fiction

[madokie]

111. For a self described political junkie

you sure haven't got a very good handle on what is happening.

Take a couple aspirins and it'll get better I promise. Just stay away from tylenol its bad for your Liver.

[sabrina 1]

113. This is the second time within minutes I saw this Right Wing meme re Dems wanting 'free stuff'

"with his laundry list of freebees and government giveaways, cannot win in a General Election"

Bernie wants to preserve the Social Safety Nets that are the cornerstone of Democratic Party policies. AND btw, the MOST popular programs across the political spectrum.

Did YOU also get lost on your way here? Is this the latest 'talking point' and where is it coming from? That is the most recognizable far Right and oldest btw, attack on Democrats.

And it doesn't belong on a Democratic forum.

If you think SS is 'free stuff' then what are you doing here?

[politicaljunkie41910]

140. Please direct me to current Social Safety Net for free college tuition that Bernie is trying to

preserve. Please direct me to the current Social Safety Net for Universal Health Care that Bernie is trying to preserve.
Who are you to decide what does and does not belong on a Democratic forum? I'm not lost but perhaps you are since I never said that Social Security is 'free stuff'. Just because I don't have 60,000 posts on this board doesn't mean that I am not a member of the Democratic Party and that my opinion is any more or any less than yours. It just means that some of us have a life outside of spending the amount of time of a board which would allow one to rack up 60,000 posts. And if your post directed at me is any indication, you don't have anything of substance to say so you try to attack me. Good luck with that.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

116. Doom..doom..doom. Cassandra much?

[TexasBushwhacker]

118. I personally know someone who hates Trump and HRC

And said he would feel fine voting for Bernie because he feels he is honest. BTW, my friend is an evangelical Christian.

[Bluenorthwest]

119. Your word choices make it easy for me to believe you know how Republicans think.

But that's only because you sound just like one.

[politicaljunkie41910]

141. Believe what you want. Someone in the Democratic Party has to talk like they have some fiscal

sanity if we want to be taken seriously, and want to take back control of the House and Senate. But not to take back control just so we can give away a bunch of free stuff, and I'm going to keep on saying it whether people here like it or not. As for my comments regarding universal health care, I'm for it. We just can't get it through with the Congress with the current make up and there is no reason to believe that the Dems are going to take control of the House anytime soon. Bernie calling for universal health care when it's already been rejected, and is partially responsible for us losing the House in 2010 is unrealistic. It could cause us to possibly lose even more seats, as people think that the Dems can't be trusted with the purse strings, and I would agree.

[Hiraeth]

127. I think you insult the intelligence of a lot of people, whether they be disenfranchised or not.

Let the elections begin and we shall see ...