Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumAre peaceful Muslims in denial about their religion?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/are-peaceful-muslims-in-denial-about-their-religion-10084960.htmlSPOILER ALERT: No, of course they aren't! Violent Muslims are just interpreting the Koran incorrectly. See how easy that is? I wonder why someone doesn't just wander into an ISIS camp and explain this to them? Would be nice to put an end to the violence.
No, is the emphatic answer of the Koran. Whether Islam is peaceful or extreme is not just a matter of interpretation, and for the simple reason that the Koran tells you exactly how to interpret it. Once youve read how it works, youll understand exactly why the verses above arent actually calling for "Death to the West", but are in fact completely reasonable in their context. If that sounds far-fetched, then keep reading.
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So just to be clear: Islam is not simply a matter of interpretation, because the Koran itself tells us how to interpret it. Any other interpretation is either willfully dishonest or just plain ignorant.
'Anyone who interprets this book differently than I do is either a liar or just stupid.' Well glad we've settled that. Such a mystery why conflict has gone hand-in-hand with religion since it arose.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)many muslims come out to decry those acts. It is just that our media fails (or deliberately refuses) to report on it.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)declining in membership. Won't be long. It's the popularity and influence arc of Christianity in fast forward.
mountain grammy
(26,663 posts)which, according to all the "laws" makes me a Jew. As a "peaceful" Jew, I want to renounce Netanyahu's war mongering speech to the Congress along with his war against Palestinian children, and my new "peaceful" Muslim friend wants to renounce ISIS.
Well, glad we settled that!
So just to be clear: Islam is not simply a matter of interpretation, because the Koran itself tells us how to interpret it. Any other interpretation is either willfully dishonest or just plain ignorant.
Good article!
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)if you read their holy books. Cherry pick from the Koran or from the Bible, and you will be able to prove anything you want to prove. You can pull out all the verses that related to peace, or you can pull out all the verses that relate to war or retaliation. The problem is in the books themselves, and the people who think that they are words from above.
The key issue, I think, is that every religion and every god was created by humans. Therefore every religion and every god can contain the best of humanity and the worst of humanity.
The unique aspect of religion, though, is the notion that it is ABOVE other ideas and philosophies. That it is special and can't be criticized. (Lest you get "punched" as the pope says.) That it is derived using "other ways of knowing" that cannot be challenged or questioned. All these things combine to make the bad parts of religion very, VERY bad. The moderate/liberal believers want to protect the notion that their religion is special, and shouldn't be criticized, but at the same time want to denounce the religion of the fanatics. So all they can do is say "they're interpreting it incorrectly." Which gets nowhere, since that's what the fanatics say about them.
Response to trotsky (Reply #4)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)is that after many, many centuries of "theologians" and apologists going all out on this, "they're doing it wrong" is STILL the best they can come up with. That's the depth of their intellect on the subject.
libodem
(19,288 posts)Are not vehicles for peace and love but political cover.
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skepticscott
(13,029 posts)"The Koran itself tells us how to interpret it" And does it also tell us how to interpret the passages that tell us how to interpret it??
Sheesh, but religion makes people think and say stupid shit. And yes, sorry, for the yacht clubbers reading this (and wanting to post that it's exactly the same for atheists, but can't because they're banned from here and can only alert troll)...much stupider shit and much more of it than lack of religion.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)That's just great, isn't it?
So interpret it...and the Bible and Vedas.... knock yourselves out!
We interpret Greek and Norse myths all the time... but we don't live by them. And we don't insist others live by them.
There's the rub.
Why treat the Koran any differently than one would treat the Iliad, or La Morte d'Arthur?
Sure, studying these works is great and a window into past times and past thinking. But to hold that there are any reasons for giving these ancient fairytales any gravity other than interesting ancient lit is absurd.
And theology is as useless as arguing over the details of the StarTrek universe and learning Klingon. It's like arguing over whether Santa come down the chimney head first or feet first.
onager
(9,356 posts)Well shit. I guess a whole lot of Muslim theologians will be needing new jobs, now that the proper interpretation of the Koran has been declared crystal-clear.
That's after somebody passes this news along to...
--the 32 different theological schools (at least) of Sunni Islam
--the 5 or 6 different schools of Shi'a Islam
--all the Off-Brand Islamic sects like the Sufis, Alawites etc. who have their own special interpretations.
And that's not even counting the minefield of the hadiths. Depending on your Islamic belief, the hadiths are...
--as valid under Sharia law as the Koran, and to be strictly obeyed unless they conflict with the Koran. And how TF could THAT happen, since the Koran is so clear and all? There shouldn't be any conflicts.
--heretical, since the Koran is complete and needs nothing added to it
--some hadiths are OK but others are heretical
progressoid
(50,011 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)"No True Scotsman. The end."