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yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
Thu May 24, 2018, 10:53 AM May 2018

How can a scientist believe in God?

Are religion and science always at odds? Here are three scientists that don't think so


Source: ABC News, by Anna Salleh

*****

Some argue that being religious is incompatible with being a scientist — but do they realize the father of the Big Bang theory was actually a Catholic priest, the pioneer of modern genetics was an Augustinian monk, or the decoder of the human genome converted from atheism to Christianity in his 20s?

*****

Dr. Jennifer Wiseman: A Christian astrophysicist.

"When I talk to people I find that most people really realise that there are deeper questions of life that science can't fully address, and they don't really see why there should be any conflict."

Dr. Andrew Harman: A Buddhist immunologist

"The Buddha was very clear that you follow a system of practice and only when you've experienced those things for yourself is your faith then justified — because it's a faith that is based on experience."

Fahad Ali: A Muslim geneticist

"I think it's a testament to God more than anything — that we can bring about all life on earth from a single origin."


*****

Read it all at: http://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2018-05-24/three-scientists-talk-about-how-their-faith-fits-with-their-work/9543772


Over 50 per cent of US scientists surveyed in 2009 said they believed in a deity or higher power.

63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How can a scientist believe in God? (Original Post) yallerdawg May 2018 OP
The expanding Universe, proven by Hubble HopeAgain May 2018 #1
The same way anyone else believes in a god or gods. Mariana May 2018 #2
Perhaps we will hear that view presented ollie10 May 2018 #3
You've made a common mistake, frequently seen Voltaire2 May 2018 #37
you made a common mistake, misrepresenting what I said ollie10 May 2018 #39
So no link to anyone making the claim? Voltaire2 May 2018 #40
Sadly asking for links here is rarely fruitful. MineralMan May 2018 #42
No link needed...it is right here on this thread! ollie10 May 2018 #47
Ok why don't you tell me what I said. Voltaire2 May 2018 #48
You don't know? ollie10 May 2018 #54
I have no idea what your perception of Voltaire2 May 2018 #56
Think about it ollie10 May 2018 #58
You've got nothing. Voltaire2 May 2018 #59
Here: guillaumeb May 2018 #50
Post removed? Voltaire2 May 2018 #51
Read down to #9 guillaumeb May 2018 #52
Unbelievable. Voltaire2 May 2018 #53
not very convincing....sounds like the gasps from a drowning man ollie10 May 2018 #55
Yes I understand that you think they are the same. Voltaire2 May 2018 #57
I understand your reluctance to admit that they are essentially the same. guillaumeb May 2018 #60
Except of course that they aren't. Voltaire2 May 2018 #61
Agreed, we are capable of holding viewpoints and beliefs on a variety of topics. eom guillaumeb May 2018 #62
Including holding incompatible beliefs. Voltaire2 May 2018 #63
Here: guillaumeb May 2018 #49
My view - and I am a scientist - is that I don't really know much about anything NRaleighLiberal May 2018 #4
Good point! LakeArenal May 2018 #5
I've never been able to see how ANYONE can. nt aka-chmeee May 2018 #6
It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood. Mariana May 2018 #7
Was raised methodist but always felt uneasy aka-chmeee May 2018 #8
But I've seen it go the other way. Nitram May 2018 #9
I consider it quite a stretch for some to continue to assert... yallerdawg May 2018 #10
sure edhopper May 2018 #11
Distraction. yallerdawg May 2018 #13
This vvv edhopper May 2018 #16
We could go on forever. yallerdawg May 2018 #17
Ed Hopper was the implication we garnered from Mariana's statement above. Nitram May 2018 #19
The same person who said this vv edhopper May 2018 #24
Who has said that? Link? MineralMan May 2018 #15
Here you go, MinMan Nitram May 2018 #20
That's completely out of any context. Where is the link? MineralMan May 2018 #22
What she said was edhopper May 2018 #25
That's just so much bullshit. MineralMan May 2018 #26
Nothing I said in that post is false. Mariana May 2018 #32
But I do not see you saying edhopper May 2018 #34
No, I didn't say that or anything like it. Mariana May 2018 #35
The poster who puts snickering imbecile emojis Voltaire2 May 2018 #38
I won't stop putting the DU tools to use. yallerdawg May 2018 #41
No, you won't. Voltaire2 May 2018 #44
Reply #26 guillaumeb May 2018 #46
Note - they'll run you in circles. yallerdawg May 2018 #23
You might notice I used the word "usually" in the headline of my post. Mariana May 2018 #18
Mariana, yallerdog did not write or imply that you wrote "always". Nitram May 2018 #21
splitting hairs are we? edhopper May 2018 #27
sopunds like you 're arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, ed. Nitram May 2018 #36
I wasn't answering him, I was answering you. Mariana May 2018 #31
Plenty of scientists have religious beliefs. MineralMan May 2018 #12
As NDT would say edhopper May 2018 #14
Which is an actual interesting question. Voltaire2 May 2018 #43
This Christian Biochemist says you can. Maine-i-acs May 2018 #28
How can anyone? gibraltar72 May 2018 #29
Excellent question...which, IM (everso) HO... NeoGreen May 2018 #30
can scientists believe in god Lordquinton May 2018 #33
It is simple, not involving any intellectual rigor. guillaumeb May 2018 #45

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
2. The same way anyone else believes in a god or gods.
Thu May 24, 2018, 10:57 AM
May 2018

Who argues that being religious is incompatible with being a scientist?

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
37. You've made a common mistake, frequently seen
Fri May 25, 2018, 10:44 AM
May 2018

in this forum, where somebody thinks that opinions about belief systems are about the people who hold those beliefs.

But perhaps you can provide a link to a comment here that states that being a scientist is incompatible with being religious.

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
40. So no link to anyone making the claim?
Fri May 25, 2018, 02:11 PM
May 2018

And I did not misrepresent your claim, but if you think I did please restate it.

 

ollie10

(2,091 posts)
47. No link needed...it is right here on this thread!
Fri May 25, 2018, 08:47 PM
May 2018

Just re-read your previous statement.

Nah, nevermind. Forget it. You obviously don't know whst you said

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
53. Unbelievable.
Fri May 25, 2018, 09:15 PM
May 2018

Science is incompatible with religion


Those words do not mean “a scientist cannot be religious”.

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
57. Yes I understand that you think they are the same.
Sat May 26, 2018, 06:09 PM
May 2018

The claim was made by you that people here have repeatedly stated the scientists cannot be religious, as per the topic of the op. When asked for substantiation you came up with nothing, and somebody else posted the above nonsense, which is about the incompatibility of science and religion, but does not make any claim about scientists not being religious.

But perhaps you can provide a link to a comment here that states that being a scientist is incompatible with being religious.

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
61. Except of course that they aren't.
Sat May 26, 2018, 06:18 PM
May 2018

People hold incompatible beliefs. This is not even slightly controversial, it is common knowledge.

Voltaire2

(12,625 posts)
63. Including holding incompatible beliefs.
Sat May 26, 2018, 07:12 PM
May 2018

So the statement "Science and religion are incompatible" is not essentially the same as a statement that "a scientist cannot be religious".

Glad we agree on that.

NRaleighLiberal

(59,940 posts)
4. My view - and I am a scientist - is that I don't really know much about anything
Thu May 24, 2018, 11:06 AM
May 2018

I try to be in a perpetual state of learning. Our world humbles me - looking into a dark sky at night, the amazing variety of birds, the wonder of a great relationship - I don't need to have firm answers - life is a journey of learning, adjusting, evolving.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
7. It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood.
Thu May 24, 2018, 12:29 PM
May 2018

Little children are told over and over and over again, by adults who love them and protect them and whom they trust, that this deity is real, and that it wants them to do these things, and that something very bad will happen to them if they don't believe all this. Kids are told this before they even understand what the words mean. They may receive strong disapproval and even punishment for asking awkward questions or expressing incredulity. Of course some of them are never going to question it seriously when they grow up.

aka-chmeee

(1,129 posts)
8. Was raised methodist but always felt uneasy
Thu May 24, 2018, 01:08 PM
May 2018

especially when the Sunday school teachers would ridicule the beliefs of other the other cults and thought how odd it was that they could make those outrageous statements about what other religions believed but still expect me to accept without question the nonsense they were teaching.
This was in the early 60's and I kept going through high school; it was just what was expected...was even in the choir (but to be fair, in that time and place, it was the only way a guy could get out of the house on a school night! Choir practice took a lot less time than I was away)
As soon as I left home, I left the church as well. Been very happy with that choice ever since.

Nitram

(22,671 posts)
9. But I've seen it go the other way.
Thu May 24, 2018, 01:49 PM
May 2018

Non-religious people can find religion later in life. It's not always due to brain-washing. It can also be due to life experiences. Check out the life story of the French mathematician Pascal.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
10. I consider it quite a stretch for some to continue to assert...
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:15 PM
May 2018

that (almost) every adult Christian is a mindless brainwashed automaton.

Of course, it's pointless to dispute a belief. We know what we know.

Nitram

(22,671 posts)
19. Ed Hopper was the implication we garnered from Mariana's statement above.
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:44 PM
May 2018

"It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood."

Your hasty judgement is indeed a good example of a strawman argument. Do you interpret Mariana's words differently?

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
24. The same person who said this vv
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:31 PM
May 2018

"Who argues that being religious is incompatible with being a scientist?"


indoctrination is vastly different than
" (almost) every adult Christian is a mindless brainwashed automaton. "

And given her paragraph long explanation of her view, I can't characterize what dawg said any other way but a strawman.

Nitram

(22,671 posts)
20. Here you go, MinMan
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:45 PM
May 2018

Mariana (6,899 posts)

7. It's usually the result of intense indoctrination in early childhood.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
22. That's completely out of any context. Where is the link?
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:57 PM
May 2018

She could have been talking about anything. Please, at least try.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
25. What she said was
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:33 PM
May 2018
Little children are told over and over and over again, by adults who love them and protect them and whom they trust, that this deity is real, and that it wants them to do these things, and that something very bad will happen to them if they don't believe all this. Kids are told this before they even understand what the words mean. They may receive strong disapproval and even punishment for asking awkward questions or expressing incredulity. Of course some of them are never going to question it seriously when they grow up.


But this is characterized as saying almost all believers are mindless automatons.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
26. That's just so much bullshit.
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:35 PM
May 2018

It doesn't even begin to answer my question, nor to be an example of what the other person said. It's just another attempt at diversion from people who haven't a freaking clue.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
32. Nothing I said in that post is false.
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:16 PM
May 2018

They can hardly pretend that those things don't happen, because they do, and everyone knows it. A lot of us have experienced it first-hand.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
34. But I do not see you saying
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:59 PM
May 2018

(almost) all believers are mindless automatons.

Which is how they characterize your statement.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
35. No, I didn't say that or anything like it.
Thu May 24, 2018, 06:21 PM
May 2018

Anything, I guess, to avoid actually discussing the content of a post.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
23. Note - they'll run you in circles.
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:04 PM
May 2018

If you're patient, you'll soon be able to 'copy and paste' your replies!

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
18. You might notice I used the word "usually" in the headline of my post.
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:37 PM
May 2018

"Usually" means "not always".

The fact is, childhood indoctrination is very effective and it works most of the time. Most people raised as Christians remain Christian, most people raised as Hindus remain Hindu, etc. etc. etc. Relatively few of them will convert to a completely different religion, or to give up religion altogether. A Christian might switch to a different denomination, but is unlikely to give up Christianity.

Nitram

(22,671 posts)
21. Mariana, yallerdog did not write or imply that you wrote "always".
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:48 PM
May 2018

Perhaps you missed the word in parentheses: "almost." "Usually" and "almost always" are synonyms. And I personally know quite a few people who have left Christianity for Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism. It is not as unusual as you seem to assume.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
27. splitting hairs are we?
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:40 PM
May 2018

almost always implies most, I'd infer it to mean at least 95% of the time, maybe 99%. It just leaves room for some exceptions.

He didn't say some, he didn't say a few, he actually said all and then put in a parenthetical (almost).

And that isn't even the bigger sin, it is how he (and you) misstate what Mariana said.




Mariana

(14,849 posts)
31. I wasn't answering him, I was answering you.
Thu May 24, 2018, 05:00 PM
May 2018

Most people who are religious were raised that way. There are exceptions. I never said or implied otherwise.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
12. Plenty of scientists have religious beliefs.
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:25 PM
May 2018

Who said that wasn't true? Other scientists do not.

Many religionists reject science. Most do not.

There are no absolutes.

edhopper

(33,205 posts)
14. As NDT would say
Thu May 24, 2018, 02:25 PM
May 2018

"God is an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance"

So they must place their belief within that pocket.

Though outside their area of study, they can believe what they want without it interfering with there work.

But of course the question would be what they actually believe.

An absent creator is vastly different than the literal God of the Bible, including all the stories there in.

I don't see a question of how can they, I wonder why do they?.

Maine-i-acs

(1,496 posts)
28. This Christian Biochemist says you can.
Thu May 24, 2018, 03:57 PM
May 2018

Who set off the big bang?
What made me smart enough to be a scientist and question the universe?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
45. It is simple, not involving any intellectual rigor.
Fri May 25, 2018, 05:58 PM
May 2018

It involves acknowledging, as many scientists do, that each field requires a different approach.

Recommended.

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