Most Americans believe in a higher power, but not always in the God of the Bible

[yallerdawg]

This just has to include an awful lot of Democrats, doesn't it? I mean, utilizing logic and reason, of course.


Source: Washington Post, by Yonat Shimron

To be sure, a majority, if a slim one — 56 percent — say they believe in the conventional all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful God of the Bible.

Then there are the hardcore disbelievers: about 10 percent who say they don’t believe in the God of the Bible or a higher power.

But among the so-called “nones” — a broad category of atheists, agnostics and those who answer “none of the above” on questions about religion — fully 72 percent believe in a higher power of some kind.

Views of God also tend to differ by political party and race. Seventy percent of Republicans believe in the God of the Bible, while only 45 percent of Democrats do. But among Democrats, there are big differences in views of God when it comes to race; 70 percent of non-white Democrats believe in the God of the Bible — comparable to the rate among Republicans.

Read it all at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/04/25/most-americans-believe-in-a-higher-power-but-not-always-in-the-god-of-the-bible/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.95d2a3926d34

[Fix The Stupid]

1. And, exactly what does this prove?

Ok...use that hammer and keep repeating, ad nauseum, that 80% of Americans 'believe in a higher power'..

So, then...why do you have trump as your president?

Why is the US such a shit-hole now?

Why has the US been at war for nearly their entire existence?'

Why the racial inequality?

etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

All this proves to me is that, yes, the majority of people in your country are believers, and this, by extension of the above atrocities, shows that a country with a majority of believers is STILL ass-backwards, still stuck in the stone-age on certain issues and still trying to catch up with the rest of the world.

Again, this does not show what you think (or want) it to show.

To me, it just screams "the more deluded a population, the more fucked up their society is".

Deal.

[yallerdawg]

4. Not everyone thinks as you do, as perfect a world as that may lead to.

Not everyone believes as you say they believe.

[Fix The Stupid]

6. Bogus.

Nothing to do with my reply as usual...

Again, the populations with the highest % of believers, the more fucked up and ass backwards that society is...

You proved it with your OP.

Terrible reality for some - but reality none the less...

Try 'believing' it is not true...maybe that will work for you.

[guillaumeb]

41. Your reply had nothing to do with the point.

I could name countries with a high percentage of non-theists. Countries like China and North Korea.

[Bretton Garcia]

80. Relevant is Guil's "Creator"; who is not quite God

Someone like his Creator, interestingly, appears in America's foundational documents. So it's interesting to look at.

Probably it was Jefferson who put it there. Jefferson owned a Bible with all the miracles cut out.

Dropping literal miracles is one of the first modifications we see on Bibles. Related to that, is the insistence that we shouldn't take the Bible literally. But only as metaphor for spirits.

What's important to note though, is the TREND:
how over time, one part of the Bible after another, after another, gets dropped. Leaving us to predict that the removal of all of it, is where it will - and should - end up.

Atheists are already there. More should follow.

[Mariana]

7. We have Trump as our president

because most Christian voters in the US cast their votes for him, and would enthusiastically do so again if given the chance.

[yallerdawg]

9. Explain Obama and Clinton and Carter.

Anti-Christians rose up?

We won't need any Christians in 2018 and 2020?

[Mariana]

15. Do you deny that the majority of Christians voted for Trump?

Sorry, that's just a fact.

[yallerdawg]

20. There are many, many facts.

I deny that a majority of Democratic Christians voted for anyone other than Hillary! That's a fact!

[MFM008]

29. They are not Christians

Ryan just fired a priest for praying for the poor.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

30. Oh, wow, we finally get to meet the Great Decider of Who is Christian!

First question: How did you get this job? What was the interview process like?

Second question: Any chance you can give us some insight into how we know?

Because, like, I always go by this rule: if they say they are Christian and that they believe Jesus is the son of god, then, you know, I FUCKING BELIEVE THEM. But apparently that's why I didn't get the Great Decider gig.

[MFM008]

44. Is such sarcasm called for

Anyone who have read the words of Christ
Knows sich loathsome beliefs toward the poor and helpless are against everthing the historical Jesus preached.
It is between them and their God...
Your beliefs are your own.

[Voltaire2]

75. What religion are they?

[sprinkleeninow]

72. Sumbody used that word 'most' again.🤔

Ima still ~sprink. No makeovers. 😊

[edhopper]

2. I am sure they do.

So fucking what. Do we have to believe in and not criticize anything the majority of Democrats believe, even if it has fuck all to do with our political agenda.

Should we ask if most Dems believe in ghosts before we make fun of the ghost Hunters?

[yallerdawg]

5. Criticizing Democrats is a common theme.

There are particular bad things the "Religious Right" pursue. That is the political agenda we oppose.

How do ghosts and ghost hunters harm you? Or do you just insist on proselytizing your belief system?

[edhopper]

12. If you think the belief in nonsense does no harm

I will give you Creationism, climate change denial, anti-vax.

You think psuedo science does no harm, the evidence shows you are terribly wrong.

I don't have a belief system, I have a high regard for science, evidence, facts and rationality.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

3. And a shockingly high percentage of Americans believe in young earth creationism.

Ad populum and all that, you know.

[yallerdawg]

11. Was that in the poll?

I did not see that.

[edhopper]

13. Here

[img][/img]

[yallerdawg]

17. This correlates fairly well with the poll I am referencing.

People tend to be fairly consistent in their answers.

But like drilling down into what "nones" actually believe, we get a clearer picture:


God’s Work? A new poll suggests Americans aren’t so confident in their creationism.

In a dozen polls taken from 1982 to 2014, Gallup has asked Americans to choose among three views of evolution. One view is that humans “developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process.” Another view is that humans “developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process.” The third option is that “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.”

In that three-decade span, the young-Earth creationist option has always been the most popular choice. The percentage of respondents who affirm it has never fallen below 40. These findings, along with similar poll numbers, often alarm scientists, journalists, and educators. Nearly half of Americans, if not more, seem to be hardcore creationists.

But they aren’t. A new study, sponsored by the BioLogos Foundation and conducted by Calvin College sociologist Jonathan Hill, explores beliefs about evolution and creation in greater detail. The results show far more nuance, variation, and doubt than is commonly supposed. Most Americans do believe God created us. But the harder you press about historical claims in the Bible, the less confident people are. The percentage who stand by young-Earth creationism dwindles all the way to 15 percent.

[edhopper]

19. This poll gives you hope

with nearly half of Americans believing in nonsense?

[yallerdawg]

21. Nonsense.

Quite a dismissive disdainful comment.

Would you find it offensive if someone declared "You are doomed to burn in the fiery pits of Hell for all eternity" - if that was what that person believed?

[edhopper]

25. Those ae not kind words

so I don't think I would take them as positive. Why do you ask?

Nonsense= Adam and Eve Real people, nonsense= Creationism should be taught in school, nonsense=humans did not evolve from other life forms, nonsense=the Bible is without errors.

Calling that nonsense is accurate, not dismissive.

[yallerdawg]

26. Perhaps the millenial-old and chidren's versions are more understandable...

in a broad sense given human development and understanding at various stages of our existence and individual lives.

When a 3-year-old asks where babies come from, we don't go into graphic detail.

But every adult recognizes it wasn't the stork, and it wasn't Santa Claus, it wasn't the Easter Bunny, and it wasn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[edhopper]

27. I don't understand

what you are saying here?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

31. So, wait, you agree it's nonsense, too?

I'm really confused.

Because, yeah, we know it's penises and vaginas that give us the baby. So god had no part in the creation of the universe. Cool. Cool. So it's just a simple story for those that can't understand things.

But it's rude to call it nonsense.

I'm no less confused right now.

[guillaumeb]

42. Metaphor.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

16. No. Just a counterexample to show that percentages don't mean something is correct.

You do understand how argument construction works, right?

[yallerdawg]

18. Yes.

I do.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

28. Then you should have understood a counterexample

and the implications. Yet you didn't.

[yallerdawg]

37. All I saw was a royal decree.

Documentation of the claim followed.

But I always appreciate being corrected (when it's deserved).

[Cartoonist]

8. Good news

Thanks for the post pointing out that most Americans think the Bible is BS.

[yallerdawg]

10. BS all around, then.

Belief in a higher power was found in every segment of the religiously unaffiliated population. Overall, 70 percent of the nones said they believe in a spiritual force. Among agnostics, it was 62 percent. Even among atheists, nearly 1 in 5 (or 18 percent) said they believe in a higher power.

[Cartoonist]

14. You're missing it

A belief in god is one thing. A belief in holy books is another. People who believe in a generic god are not like you. You are not their soulmate.

[MineralMan]

22. OK. But, what does that mean?

We know that many people have such beliefs. That says nothing about the actual existence of any deities. It just says that many people believe they exist. We knew that, already.

[yallerdawg]

23. It means "Godless Enlightenment" may not be as imminent as some have forecast.

Maybe we should be a little more selective in targeting egregious behaviors rather than broad groups which include a great number of us.

Offending 9 out of 10, or 5 out of 10 just seems anti-productive. Then, we get labeled. Then, people get hurt. Then, we lose friends.

Then, people who should be voting with us vote against us.

[MineralMan]

24. Oh, noes! Godless Enlightenment!

I'll keep an eye out for anyone using that term. You're the first, as far as I know.

[Mariana]

33. There it is, MineralMan.

You should just shut up about religion, because if you don't, it will be your fault whenever Democrats lose elections. Even if what you say is true, you should just keep it to yourself.

This is a dandy example of the argument from consequences fallacy, worthy of inclusion in a textbook, I think.

[Mariana]

32. Who forecast "Godless Enlightenment"?

Can you provide links, please?

[MineralMan]

34. I did an extensive Google Search. Here's the only mention of it I could find

on DU:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218281875#post23

[Mariana]

35. Oh, so he made it up.

I never would have guessed.

[MineralMan]

36. Like God, it exists only in his head, I guess.

Funny, though.

Creating a straw man. It's a very popular thing to do here.

[yallerdawg]

39. Look through every OP and thread.

People aren't bashing religion, faith and belief just to do Satan's work.

Repeatedly - the world would be a better place if we'd lose all religion and leave gods behind. Hence, "Godless Enlightenment."

Otherwise, what are you all peddling here? A worse way of living our lives?

[Mariana]

40. There's no peddling, there is only discussion.

Religion exists. It materially affects our lives. We have opinions about it, in its thousands of forms. In this group on DU, we may freely express those opinions.

I don't believe anyone here has tried to tell you how to live your life. However, religious politicians at all levels of power are working day and night to use the power of the government to force all of us to live our lives the way they see fit. That includes you and your family. Most of the time, they are doing this with the enthusiastic support of their religious constituents.

[yallerdawg]

43. So this is EXACTLY the place to come to bash religion!

No problem!

But not ALL religious people of faith deserve bashing. Those opinions can be expressed, too.

[Mariana]

52. Those opinions can be expressed too, and they are. nt.

[MineralMan]

45. Peddling? Reason. That's what.

What are religions peddling? Fantasy. Ghost stories.

In fact some insist that you join them in their "faith."

Atheist are here to discuss religion. We're not going away.

[yallerdawg]

38. I know you're new here.

Try to keep up.

[MineralMan]

46. That's insulting!

She has been here eight years longer than you have. Insults are not appropriate. They're just rude.

[yallerdawg]

47. Me and Mariana got some "insult" issues.

But you are welcome to butt in anytime!

[MineralMan]

48. This is a public discussion. You began it with your OP.

I will reply in it as I choose.

[yallerdawg]

49. Like I said...

you are welcome to butt in anywhere and everywhere!

[MineralMan]

50. Oh, thanks. But I knew that already.

No permission is needed.

[yallerdawg]

53. But of course!

It's your privilege to butt in at any time, any comment, any conversation!

YOU don't need MY permission.

[Mariana]

51. Thank you MineralMan.

Courtesy of Dictionary.com:

yellow dog
noun
1. a cowardly, despicable person; a craven.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/yellow-dog?s=t

[yallerdawg]

54. See, MM?

I told you!

[Mariana]

55. Hey, I didn't pick your username. You did that all by yourself. nt.

[yallerdawg]

58. Name-calling.

The lowest level in the 'hierarchy of substantive argument.'

You never fail to bring it!

Back to 'ignore' with you.

[Eko]

60. You seem to have no problem insulting other people.

"Me and Mariana got some "insult" issues."

[yallerdawg]

63. I'm unaware of any name-calling on my part.

That doesn't mean I don't find it to be an "issue" between us.

And feel free to butt in anytime!

[Eko]

64. I did, Thanks!

Name calling is an insult, and you feel its ok to insult some people.

[yallerdawg]

65. "You're a -a -a name caller!"

Thank you! I'll add that to my book of derogatory, nasty insults.

My apologies, Mariana (still on 'ignore').

[Eko]

66. I mean, it seems to be have been a big deal with you already.

"Name-calling.

The lowest level in the 'hierarchy of substantive argument.'

You never fail to bring it!

Back to 'ignore' with you."

[Mariana]

71. If this is how the yellow dog wants to exemplify Christianity

I have no problem with it.

[Mariana]

73. I'm just a literalist.

Yes, it is true. I read the dictionary literally. Unless there is some evidence to the contrary for a particular word, I accept the definitions therein as the true meanings of the words with which they are associated.

[Eko]

56. Nearly half of Americans believe in Aliens also.

Sooooooooooooo,,,,,,, I do not have a high opinion of the majority of my fellow countrymen.

[yallerdawg]

57. Is that Pew or Gallup?

I don't see Aliens referenced in any polling cited here?

What about Coke or Pepsi? Would that have some kind of impact on your opinion of countrymen?

[Eko]

59. Could care less about Coke or Pepsi.

Here is your link.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/new-survey-shows-nearly-half-of-americans-believe-in_us_59824c11e4b03d0624b0abe4

[yallerdawg]

61. OMG! You may be right about people!

From your referenced survey (in support of a movie release):

[Eko]

62. Thanks! Here is another.

Are we alone in the universe? Slightly more than half of Americans, 54 percent, don't think so. They believe in the existence of intelligent aliens, according to a poll conducted in mid-September by the market research and survey company YouGov.
http://www.newsweek.com/2015/10/16/two-numbers-americans-are-nearly-likely-believe-aliens-they-are-evolution-380639.html

[yallerdawg]

67. It is truly remarkable how people believe in things for which there is no proof.

Alarming, even!

[Eko]

68. I believe I like that song.

Problems?

[yallerdawg]

69. I'd explain...

but got to break for noted Atheist Bill Maher.

Never miss his show!

[Eko]

78. Wow, must be a long show.

[Eko]

70. I think Ill just nip this conversation short

as I know how it will go. Notice how I said "like". Like is an emotion, like love. They are emotions and feelings that the majority of people throughout history have felt. They describe how humans feel, and they are measurable. You can see the same parts of the brain being affected when people describe they are feeling the same thing, you can even take drugs that produce the same feeling and effect the exact same part of the brain. Are they real? They are real emotions. They can also change, people fall out of love all the time, they dont like the same music as they did when they were 5, like doing the same things they did years ago, to equate an emotion, which is a state of mind with saying something is real like god is not to understand, or to understand and try to use it as a red herring. Its a really weak argument also, I expected better. Understand now?

[edhopper]

76. I would not put that in the catagory of believing in God

if I was asked I would say there is more a likelihood of intelligent life somewhere else than not.
I base this on there being so many planets in the Universe that can sustain life.
But this is just speculation based on what facts we have. This conjecture could be wrong and we have no way to know either way right now.
Of course this is very different from thinking Aliens have visited earth.

But belief in the God or Gods from any of Earth's religions is another matter and not really comparable.

[Eko]

77. I wasnt comparing them.

Just showing where people are sure of something that is not proven.

[edhopper]

79. And I wonder if people were saying they are sure

Or just think there is a good chance of it.

But I get your point about belief.

[sprinkleeninow]

74. At the 'Greek's Drive-In'....

"Whud you wan' ahn d' 'ot dok?

"Coke. No Pepsi."

"?ί??? ό?? ???????ά ??? ?έ??!" 🤣

Don't get me wrong, I love them. They assimilated me. Ever'body say OPA!

[Major Nikon]

81. It's possible for an atheist to believe in a higher power

Going by the literal definition for atheism, which you obviously don't believe in.

[Bretton Garcia]

82. Nature, the material universe and its laws, controls most of our lives

Possibly, all. As a sort of" higher power"?

So it seems likely that ultimately, given the success of science and technology, nature-based, science-based atheists, and their beliefs, will appeal to a higher and higher. percentage of the population. A kind of science-based "naturalism" may already have some sway in demographics considered "religious."

[NeoGreen]

83. I have a "higher power" question...

...


We should tread carefully.

[Major Nikon]

86. Some evidently "believe" there is no difference

[NeoGreen]

87. Either way...

...we're going to need more whisky.

[Major Nikon]

88. ...and why wouldn't we?

[NeoGreen]

89. You're not playing along with the theme...

...you were supposed to be offended that I spelled it "Whisky" and not "Whiskey".

(maybe I was being too subtle)

[Major Nikon]

90. I like it both ways

Then again, I'm funny that way.

[NeoGreen]

92. I like mine...

..on the rocks.

[Major Nikon]

93. Sacrilege!

[NeoGreen]

94. And...

...sometimes mixed with a carbonated cola beverage...

[Major Nikon]

96. Definitely cause for getting beaten to death with a wet noodle

I'll fully expect you to put yourself on report

[Heddi]

99. I made a toasted pecan infused bourbon the other week

it's really good.

[Major Nikon]

100. ...

[Bretton Garcia]

97. The science "higher power" is the higher higher power

But to be sure, aside from shots, I'll even drink whiskey sours. Trying to get some vitamin C.
Leaned all this as a kid in Germany. Where you could get an egg in your beer, if you needed breakfast.

[Major Nikon]

98. My button is bigger than yours, so to speak

[Bretton Garcia]

101. Bigger than "little hands" Trump, and the churches too.

Not just bigger though. Science is very subtle and complex. And it begins to see an infinitely subtle, complex universe. Complex enough to include human psychology, etc..

[Bretton Garcia]

102. "Belief" has at least two slightly different meanings.

Last edited Tue May 1, 2018, 05:32 AM - Edit history (1)

1) "a state of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing....

2) conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon esp. when based on examination of evidence."

- Merriam Webster's Collegiate

Based on that, and other things from philosophy and anthropology, it currently seems to me that belief could include both 1) religious belief, AND 2) rational opinions., and Science. Though? There is a subtle difference. Since one could be rather willful and subjective. But the other seems more evidence-based.

So for me, I don't mind calling science - and my own variety of atheism - a belief. But I note that there is a significant difference between my belief, and .conventional religious belief.

Others wish to define their own atheism differently. I have no major objection to that.

My knowledge on this has evolved in years of discussion in DU. I still hold that" faith" is very religious oriented, percentage wise. "Belief" is mostly about subjective opinion, often religious; but not always. When used to describe a scientific idea or even hypothesis, scientists, it usually signifies a firmer idea, than when used by religious people to describe their own religious commitments..

[Mariana]

84. Yellow dog insists that atheists believe in nothing.

He's been corrected, many times.

[Major Nikon]

85. I'm not sure that's true

My interpretation of his thoughts on the subject is atheists must believe there is no god, ergo they are believers.

[Mariana]

91. He's said it plenty of times.

Maybe he's confused enough to believe both those things are true, at the same time.

[Major Nikon]

95. For some, self-contradiction is their strong suit

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=279144