Religion
Related: About this forum"I want to raise my daughter without religion. She wants to go to church. What should I do?"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2018/04/20/i-want-to-raise-my-daughter-without-religion-she-wants-to-go-to-church-what-should-i-do/A: No, this is not weird. My best friend has two kids, and her family is not churchgoing. Her daughter started going to church with friends around 8 or 9 and truly felt called. My friend went here and there (to share openness and solidarity and to make sure the church wasnt a cult), but otherwise, she didnt sweat it.
The point is? Just as you chose a path for you, your daughter is her own person and can choose her own path, too. Of course you have to stay watchful and present, but I would look at this as cultural experiment more than the big G-O-D or H-E-L-L thing.
In fact, hell is such an important concept historically, artistically, in literature, in war in, well, everything that this is a cool opportunity to visit this concept as just that: a concept. It really does serve as a way to keep many people in line, and thats interesting, isnt it?
"It really does serve as a way to keep many people in line"
Why sure, you keep telling yourself that. I guess that explains why the people who believe in it the most (clergy) have never done anything wrong.
It sounds more like this poor child was a victim of aggressive proselytizing. I'm not a fan of my child worrying about hell, either. In fact I don't think ANY CHILD should have to worry about being eternally punished for not pleasing someone. Like Richard Dawkins said, that's child abuse.
Would be interesting to see what this "answer" would have been if the situation were reversed, and a child of a religious parent DIDN'T want to go to church anymore.
samnsara
(17,658 posts)..important...This would be like a parent forcing a child to go to church.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It's more like she feels obligated to, since apparently one of her peers has been telling her about hell, and making her worried.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)Mom absolutely should not permit the child to go to church with her friends' families unless she goes, too, and supervises her child at all times. That way she can prevent attempts to recruit her child by means of threats of eternal torture, or guilt trips about her "sins", or other such emotional manipulation.
dameatball
(7,402 posts)It turned out to be a good decision. When their mother and I divorced several years later, they already had a solid group of peers to hang out with. Many are still friends to this day. Even though they live in different areas, they still keep in touch and are supportive of each other when necessary.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,440 posts)How many folks, growing up Catholic, for instance, have decided that keeping "the faith" didn't fit for them? Sometimes cognitive dissonance prevails and is recognized, then a response follows. That's how humans do things. Our common goal is to allow for our kids to find their own happiness, their own contentment, through their own struggles. Our role is to give them support and love at every turn. It's always relationships that count the most. Relationships are OUR spiritual sustenance. It's the real connections that lead some of us to wonder about whether a spiritual entity is present-- one that oversees and is part of all we love. But that's a question that only the open-hearted can ask. And the answer is as varied as the number of human beings who exist, and who ever existed on the planet.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,947 posts)Or, not go and decide for herself.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,002 posts)or because someone has (clearly) been telling her that people that don't go to church are going to hell and that god watches everything she does.
Because if it is the later (which the question makes pretty clear it is), then fuck those people. THEY should be the ones that let that kid decide for herself. She will be curious about church at some point and at that time she should go check out multiple religions. My kids did. They are in their mid-20s now and still solid atheists.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,947 posts)so she can see that even though religions are different from each other, they all claim to be "correct." That could lead her to ask questions and think about how religions with different and sometimes contradictory beliefs can all claim to be holding the only correct beliefs (although not all of them make that claim). At seven she might be too young, but it seems to me that this would be a good way to introduce a kid, maybe a slightly older one, to some of the more problematic aspects of religions.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,002 posts)And as an English teacher, you need to know religion to understand American Literature (and other predominately Christian cultures). Even though authors that aren't Christian rely on and twist the symbols and tropes of religion for their own use.
LakeArenal
(28,863 posts)Thats what happened for me. Each one has different rules. Find one where doesnt scare 7 year olds with hell.
elocs
(22,633 posts)And it has nothing to do with religion but for the social aspect of it because the bottom line is that she is going to meet better people than the ones she usually does, ones that will cause her to get into trouble with drinking and drugs which for her are a disaster for her life.
Not all churches are the same and not all Christians are monolithic same-think religious robots and I have met those who are great people just as there are atheists I wouldn't trust to care for a dog I liked.
I trust her to take from going to church what will help her life and disregard the rest.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)But my concern is with the child being scared into believing they are going to go to hell.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)You were there to provide guidance. It's sickening that an innocent little kid can't go play with her friends without having someone try to recruit her into their religion, and threatening her with hell if she doesn't join.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Both the question answerer from the link and multiple individuals right here have glossed right over the concerns about children scaring other children into believing in hell, and turned this into a "you as an atheist had BETTER let your child check out faith!" kind of message. As if the bigger problem here is mean old atheists refusing to teach their kids about religion.
It's gone about as I expected it to.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)if this was a story about a religious person's child, who was coming home saying he doesn't want to go to church/synagogue/mosque/whatever anymore because his friends told him God isn't real?
I think we know the answer to that one.
SWBTATTReg
(22,191 posts)and provide coverage for her.
Or don't go. Explain to her that she needs to be a little older before she can go, if she still does.
You already knew this. Children are kids and need not worry about such a thing yet.
You probably already know this better than I, but she needs a little experience in life (be a child) and not worry about such things already. I would think that you by far, are the best resource she has already.
Now, I went to church when I was a young teenager a couple of times, when a friend of mine asked, and ended up only going a couple of times. A Pentecostal church that they belonged to. After a couple of times I never went back. Wasn't into it. I made the decision on my own. Another time I went, I went as a scout leader and didn't get involved w/ the religious component of the church, just the scouting, which I enjoyed. This might be why your daughter is interested in going, e.g., to be in a group doing something?
Take care.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)The parent here needs to accompany her child and explain that no, people DON'T know that there is a god judging us, and they DON'T know that you'll go to hell and be tortured forever, and here are the very good reasons NOT to believe those harmful ideas!
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You don't know what other baggage is along for the god-bothering ride. Lots of churches teach very hateful rhetoric. Imagine if the American Nazi party were using the same tactics. I doubt it would be so well received. There's all sorts of things children can make up their own mind about and many things they shouldn't have to.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Schools should be putting a damper on it if not forbidding it entirely.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)how to differentiate between real and make-believe.
"This story says this guy Superman can fly. Do you think that's real or make-believe?"
"This story says this woman can turn invisible. Do you think that's real or make-believe?
"This story says a snake talked to a woman. Do you think that's real or make-believe?"
"This story says this guy Jesus walked on water. Do you think that's real or make-believe?"
And so on.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)jes06c
(114 posts)I agree that hell and brimstone sermons are inappropriate for children (or even adults for that matter). But there are MANY denominations that don't believe in hell or Satan. My advice would be seek out those denominations and let the child attend one of those churches and learn that not all Christians are fearmongering Biblical literalists.
procon
(15,805 posts)to visit every church he saw. We schlepped through the edifaces of all sorts of Christian sects, and ogled the many splendors of cathedrals, temples, mosques, shrines and synagogues, and occasionally spoke with their respective representatives.
Dad always served as our curated tour guide and lectured about history, culture, politics and society along with the intended religious propaganda as we went about snapping photos, reading the brochures and out tourist guide books, as we followed the maps. People would often stop and listen to my dad when he was on a roll, thinking he was a docent with a tour group. It was so embarrassing at the time, but today I treasure those memories.
Our dad wasn't a religious man at all, but he tried to make sure that all us kids were exposed to everything. We saw the disparity and inequalities with our own eyes. We saw disparity between the pious religious dogma and the actual physical manifestations of extreme power and wealth. We learned a lot from our dad, but mostly, we learned to think for ourselves.
None of his kids ever became religious people so dad would probably say his job was done.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Somehow I suspect those who are lecturing on tolerance wouldn't be so enthusiastic about it.
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)Mostly, it depends on the church. I wouldn't send a kid off to Sunday School without checking out the church very carefully. Many churches are little more than indoctrination centers. Others are less so.
My parents were atheists, but sent us off to a nearby Presbyterian church Sunday school program, starting at about age 8 or 9. None of us turned into Christians, really. It was a white-bread church that didn't brainwash us, but the idea my parents had was to expose us to the dominant religion.
I chose not to reproduce, so I never had to deal with little Suzy wanting to do what her friends were doing on Sunday morning. However, I would not have allowed it without going to that particular church and assessing what they were feeding those young brains.
It depends on the kid, too, of course. Some children are not ready to discriminate between reality and fantasy at age 7. So, there's a risk there, unless the parent talks about what is being taught in Sunday school with the child.
Personally, I'd wait until about age 10, if I thought the exposure to religion was valuable. Most 10-year-olds have developed some skepticism by that age.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And in the reverse situation, allow her to not go.
LuvLoogie
(7,066 posts)Don't leave her alone to the influence of others. You have to protect her without isolating her. But you can't leave it to others for her spiritual guidance.
If she wants to go then you should go with her. Keep your bond stronger. There is plenty of time for her to find her own way. But she is too young to do that on her own.
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)A variety of different types of worship services, then let her decide how she feels and which services/ doctrines she likes best...
IDK how old daughter is but she may be curious about church and religion because she has heard classmates talking about it and she wanted to have her own frame of reference...
Nay
(12,051 posts)a UU church, which is not generally wholly Christian -- but we told him about other religions.
Your daughter is 7. She wants to fit in with her friend. Her family sees your daughter as a mark, and is trying to slide her into their church without your permission or knowledge. This is shitty behaviour on their part.
For your daughter, since she has been recruited by that family (don't kid yourself, this was done on purpose, she's 7 yrs old, ffs), you MUST intervene. The easiest way to cut those people off at the pass is to start taking your daughter to religious services yourself EVERY Sunday at a different church every time. Include UU churches where they don't preach hell and damnation. Unity churches are another mild non-hell church. When that family realizes that YOU are aware of their shenanigans and won't be participating in your daughter's recruitment, I bet the girls' 'friendship' cools off really fast.
demigoddess
(6,645 posts)dealing with people who go to church. One son got beat up by kids who invited him to bible study classes. Another got bullied at church by the school bully. I went to church and heard people who threatened to kill people. If your child has a good mind and good soul, she won't be harmed, just will see the truth. And tell her your side, such as you can be a good person without being told how to be a good person.
Mike Nelson
(9,980 posts)...she should go, but a parent must go with her. The parent will likely discover where the idea originated. If the daughter wants to be in a fun Sunday School singing and coloring with friends, look for substitute times. If the daughter is truly interested in religion, expose her to a variety of religions - and welcome that interest with guidance and discussion.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)The girl has been subjected to predatory proselytizing at school. She needs to have adult guidance and not be threatened into a religion.
Mike Nelson
(9,980 posts)...now I will feel smart for a day!
Me agreeing you doesn't necessarily make you smart though!
MineralMan
(146,345 posts)3catwoman3
(24,092 posts)Very open-minded and non-judgmental. Strong commitment to social justice and caring for the planet.
The small congregation to which I belong has a real patch-work quilt of philosophies among our members - agnostics, pagans, Buddhists, atheists, Christians, agnostics. The minister who served the congregation for 25 years was himself an atheist.
The classes for the kids are called REE - Religious Education and Exploration.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Geeze what a dumb question.
Nay
(12,051 posts)Thirties Child
(543 posts)I'd been terrified by hellfire and damnation and wanted to protect them. I took them to UU for several years, introduced reincarnation when I discovered it when they were 10, 8, 6, 2. Here's how they turned out.
Athiest
Catholic
Metaphysics
No interest, one way or the other. Attended Methodist Church for a year of so in early adolescence; nothing stuck.
ebbie15644
(1,216 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)that she will burn in hell if she does the wrong thing?
No big deal?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)msongs
(67,478 posts)hell and eternal damnation speaks for itself.