Religion
Related: About this forumWhy some Atheists believe atheism is a belief system.
Material posted at American Atheists website:
Under "What is Atheism?"
Despite the fact that atheism is not a religion, atheism is protected by many of the same Constitutional rights that protect religion. That, however, does not mean that atheism is itself a religion, only that our sincerely held (lack of) beliefs are protected in the same way as the religious beliefs of others. Similarly, many interfaith groups will include atheists. This, again, does not mean that atheism is a religious belief.
Some groups will use words like Agnostic, Humanist, Secular, Bright, Freethinker, or any number of other terms to self identify. Those words are perfectly fine as a self-identifier, but we strongly advocate using the word that people understand: Atheist. Dont use those other terms to disguise your atheism or to shy away from a word that some think has a negative connotation. We should be using the terminology that is most accurate and that answers the question that is actually being asked. We should use the term that binds all of us together.
If you call yourself a humanist, a freethinker, a bright, or even a cultural Catholic and lack belief in a god, you are an atheist. Dont shy away from the term. Embrace it.
Agnostic isnt just a weaker version of being an atheist. It answers a different question. Atheism is about what you believe. Agnosticism is about what you know.
Under "History, Origins."
Founded in 1963 by Madalyn Murray OHair, American Atheists has been fighting to protect the absolute separation of religion from government for over 50 years.
Argument before the US Supreme Court:
Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An atheist loves his fellow man instead of god.
An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now here on earth for all men together to enjoy.
An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.
An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god.
An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church.
An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. He wants an ethical way of life.
He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.
He believes that we are our brothers keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.
The Number One argument of the New Atheist? "Atheism is (not) a religion!"
TlalocW
(15,394 posts)You can be anything else. You can even believe in an afterlife (one with no gods responsible). All it is is a lack of belief in a god or gods.
TlalocW
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)over time. Institutionally and personally!
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)must hold beliefs that are just as goofy as belief in gods.
And as atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief in any gods, there are all sorts of atheists who believe in lots of goofy shit. But those beliefs, unlike theistic beliefs, are not entailed by atheism.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)And I'm not "desperate" for anything!
You keep saying "Let's have a serious argument" don't you?
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)you play it very well in this forum.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I don't want anyone to get the notion that ALL Democrats are anti-religious and support exclusionary divisiveness.
We are a REALLY Big Tent! And we need EVERYONE of us unquestionably!
After all, we absolutely do support the First Amendment!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Is this an attack on all theists?
Mariana
(14,863 posts)I suppose it might depend on which deity or deities the individual believes in , and the reasons for that belief. It may be that belief in some deities is goofier than belief in others. Also, regardless of the level of goofiness of the actual beliefs, we know that plenty of people believe in deities for goofy reasons.
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)See if you can figure out the difference.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)must hold beliefs that are just as goofy as belief in gods.
I can figure it out. If you wish, I can help you also.
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)The adjective goofy is modifying which noun that sentence:
A) beliefs
B) we
C) that one
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)It is simply a difference of opinion.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It is not literally saying that anyone who believes in a deity is goofy as far as holding that belief, but the inference cannot be avoided.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2018, 11:47 PM - Edit history (1)
You are a person, not a set of beliefs. If you are too fused in your mind with your beliefs, then yes it will feel like an attack. But if you can separate yourself from your beliefs, and look at your beliefs as something you hold and use like a tool, then there is no attack at all, it is simply a discussion of the tool in your hand, not about you as a person.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)The American Atheists organization does not represent atheism for any but the minority of atheists who belong to that organization and agree with those statements.
As far as I know, none of the atheists who post in this group are members of that organization. Certainly, I am not.
Please stop using a group's definition for atheism. Atheists have their own definitions and there is absolutely no official atheist doctrine. Pay attention to what atheists here are telling you, and you'll have a better understanding of each of our understandings of what atheism is.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Just like the blanket critiques of Roman Catholics are targeted just at the Roman Catholics who post here?
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)You have read their posts. You are familiar with them. You quoted from one atheist, who was murdered many years ago.
Who are those "some" atheists, to whom you refer. Living ones. Actual ones. Ones you know.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)as this is posted at their website.
They even acknowledge the evolution of their "word play" to distinguish themselves from "religion."
Now - I'm not going to argue with you about what YOU believe - that's entirely up to you and is your right.
I just don't know how valid it is to argue that Atheists believe in nothing, that's all.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)the group cited is in fact a group of atheists. So if this group wishes to define their beliefs as a system of beliefs, that is their right.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But it is not a religion as we define that term. It is simply a belief system.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)at the same time they are telling them "We don't believe in anything?"
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Ironic is that it is used with no conception of where it truly applies.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)rights just because they don't have a belief in God.
That must be so difficult for you.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Please help me.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)to the beliefs of the Democratic Party, whichnis also not a belief system.
Is it truly so hard to grasp the difference?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)and they are things that the founder and presumably the members actually believe, yes, it is difficult for me to grasp the issue.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)I believe in one person, one vote and I belief in a God?
You don't see the difference?
How about "I believe I will have pasta for dinner" and I believe Jesus is my savior?
No difference?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And using "I believe" is idiomatic usage.
As to "one person and one vote", that is an idiomatic expression of a political position.
As to "I believe in a god", that requires faith.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)Therefore you can see the "believes" in the OP are not the same as religious beliefs.
You are making progress.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)It clearly states lack of belief. Atheist have no belief in any God. They don't believe there is no God.
The other quotes are about philosophical ideas, like Democrats believe in helping the poor. NOT about belief as in faith. Saying I believe the Mets will be in the World Series is not ghe same as your belief in a diety.
Your post is a disingenuous total failure.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)No discussion here!
edhopper
(33,658 posts)it has been explained ad nauseum how Atheism is not about faith.
Yet believers like you want to keep trying Gotcha posts like this to claim it is.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)it is logical and reasonable NOT to believe in a god or gods, and this will add some kind of value or quality to one's life?
"If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck..."
edhopper
(33,658 posts)Mariana
(14,863 posts)Once you come to understand that someone is trying to confuse you, that that is actually the goal, things make much more sense.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)here, I think it's plain old talking past someone.
Mariana
(14,863 posts)This particular tactic, the dishonest false question "Are you not trying to [do something you never did]?" is pretty popular with a few posters here.
but here it didn't seem to fit the post he responded to.
I felt maybe that was a reply to a different post, which happens with multiple sub threads.
So I just let it end.
Not to worry, I am sure dawg and I will pick it up elsewhete.
edhopper
(33,658 posts)in the context of religion is a legal area, not one of faith.
Atheism should not be a reason for discrimination, and that right is protected by the Construction.
Similarly many Atheist groups fight to keep the separation of Church and State. Still a Magesteria overlapping with religion, but not about personal faith.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)and for separation of church and state?
Then we have no argument, just agreement!
edhopper
(33,658 posts)discuss aspects of religion as a subject and it's effect on people and society.
But, yes that to. The recent Right Wing agenda to allow discrimination based on religious beliefs is frightening.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,411 posts)"I reckon that a deed must be done...". Or, if you prefer, "I feel...", "I think...", "I consider...", etc.
That does not make atheists "reckoners".
It does not make atheism a "reckoning system", "a feeling system", and so on.