Religion
Related: About this forumAmerican Atheists terminates its president over sexual misconduct allegations Part 3?
Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2018, 11:53 AM - Edit history (1)
From the article:
Silverman, through his lawyer, denied the accusations.
American Atheists board announced the move on Friday (April 13) hours before the website BuzzFeed News published a story detailing the allegations of two women who say Silverman, 51, had nonconsensual sexual contact with them.
To read more:
https://religionnews.com/2018/04/16/american-atheists-terminates-its-president-over-sexual-misconduct-allegations/
2 allegations of non-consensual sexual assault, allegations of financial improprieties, and possibly taking personal advantage of a position of power and trust.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Now how does this compare to religious organizations that not only keep their abusers employed, but transfer them to new areas with fresh, unsuspecting victims?
Your desperation to pretend like these are the same is predictable and lame, as usual.
SonofDonald
(2,050 posts)Wow, that's just messed up
Remind me, how many priests were found to be sexually abusing boys?.
Loooong way to catch up with that amount eh?.
Religion or the lack of isn't the issue.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Of course no one has ever claimed religion "made" priests molest children.
But religious institutions, sometimes because of their dogma and doctrine, have protected the rapists and criminals in their ranks. That is the key difference, and the one that people like guillaumeb will never, ever discuss because they don't want to accept that reality.
So instead it's "See? An atheist is guilty of sexual harassment - it's a human issue and religion has nothing to do with it, so quit talking about the thousands of pedophile priests the Catholic Church has protected!"
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And predators are everywhere.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)But some institutions protect them, and others force them out. I understand why you don't want to talk about that, but would rather sweep the entire issue under the rug with "everyone does it."
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)All who do so should be prosecuted.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I'll answer that for you: NO ONE.
David Silverman has been booted from the American Atheists organization.
Tim Dolan is protected by the Catholic Church at the Vatican.
Now THAT'S a problem.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Your only "response" has been to grasp at any kind of false equivalence you can make, such as this Silverman incident.
Do you recognize how it's different than what the RCC has done, and continues to do?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)This might be the beginning of a series.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Sorry.
But what I do see is you refusing to answer a simple question.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I can clearly see it.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)You, you're worth humiliating. Others, not so much.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)Better than being deceitful!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Works for me, too!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)but thankfully I am still perfect.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)the Catholic Church.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Because after all there's really no difference. A predator is a predator.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Religion has no role whatsoever in enabling, perpetuating, or defending these predators. None whatsoever, SO STOP SAYING THAT!
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)When confronted with evidence that human behavior is consistent regardless of the organization or institution, out come the "Buts..."
11th Commandment.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Sorry, too religious.
Agreed!!
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I really do mean "Buts..." with one t.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)This story keeps growing each day. When I saw it in RN I thought it was the story you poster earlier. Now there are 2 people accusing a person in a position of authority and influence.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I am certain that we will hear of more such incidents. And given that approximately 85% if people are theists, it stands to reason that the raw number of predators will be far smaller among atheists.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,004 posts)you are saying that our lack of a god makes us worse? Because that's what this tweet is arguing.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)And a feminist pointing out that defense of this man for any reason is disgusting and offensive.
Carry on.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,004 posts)So, they did the right thing pretty quickly. She should be happy.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Can't argue honestly, so gotta go with your forced narritive.
Mariana
(14,863 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,004 posts)I mean, if human behavior is consistent and nothing in the RCC makes that any different, then why are they any better source of moral direction and teaching?
And, for the record, I have not seen a single atheist defend Silverman's actions nor say anything other than his firing should have happened. And American Atheists haven't claim to have any moral superiority.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Alright-y!
Sounds good to me!
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,004 posts)Do Catholics have a special insight into morality and a subsequent ability to tell us how we should live our lives?
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Guess when you're in a desert you have to enjoy what little water comes your way.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Person A: Hey, the Catholic Church seems to have had a pattern of horrible behavior in its history regarding the sexual abuse of minors. Does this have any relationship to the religion itself?
Person B: Well, historically the RCC has believed itself to be above any secular authorities. It has taught that...
Person G: OmfG YoU gUYs davID sIlVeRMaN, PResIDent and ruLEr oF all AMeRICAn ATHeistS, Has bEen RemoveD fRoM HIs POSitION AftER RepoRTs Of SExuAl haRASSMeNt.
Person B: OK, that's good, I'm glad. But about the teaching that...
Person G: ShUt uP! ATheisTS CAN bE sEXUAl prEdatOrs ToO.
Person A: Yes, we all understand that, Person G. But since this is the Religion forum, the topic is generally tied to reli...
Person G: gueSS yOu atHEists arEn'T MorAllY sUpErIoR aftER AlL! Ha HA!
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Person A: the RCC uses it's influence and wealth to hid priests who rape children
Person Y: so you think atheists are better than Catholics? Here's three threads about the same guy!
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I'm glad I see no evidence they exist.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Would be a nightmare trying to discuss anything with them.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Define obsession please.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That is my choice.
I have battled with many religious bigots here - most of them vanquished and dismissed from DU now.
It's only a matter of time.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)An interesting claim. Interesting for what it reveals about you.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)That's unfortunate. You go on being you, I guess. Show everyone how a good Christian behaves.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)in another place. That is how legitimate and ethical organizations deal with things like this. Organizations that cover such things up by shifting people around are arguably not legitimate or ethical.
Every type of organization has the potential to hire someone who is not an ethical person or even a criminal. It is what that organization does when such behavior is discovered that identifies it as ethical or not. Apparently, American Atheists is an ethical organization. I have no personal knowledge of that group, however, and don't know anyone who is a member of it. I know many atheists.
Some organizations I know about, though, have failed to behave ethically. You may have heard of some of those, perhaps.
Firing Silverman, upon knowledge of reliable evidence of bad or criminal behavior, was the appropriate thing to do. Most organizations of any size have had to do the same thing.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Not one atheist has defended Silverman here, to my knowledge. Not one.
And as you note, American Atheists dismissed him. If they HAD protected him from investigation or prosecution, even though I am not a member of their organization, I would call for his dismissal.
But as is obvious to anyone without an agenda to prevent critical discussion of religious beliefs, this isn't about honest and open dialog. It's about creating a false equivalence and setting up straw men in order to stifle that dialog so that only "positive" things about religion can be discussed.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)I respond often to such things, but only because people are reading these threads who do not participate in the discussions.
Sadly, such posts about non-theist organizations are simply used as "what-about" attempts to divert attention. In recent years, one Christian denomination was exposed for institutionalizing extremely unethical treatment of heinous offenders who sexually abused children for many decades. It has been major news for many years, and new evidence is appearing still on a regular basis.
There is no equivalence between a non-religious organization firing someone for misdeeds and a religious organization that hid child sexual abuse around the world for decades, or perhaps for centuries, as an institutional matter. The American Atheists did what all organizations should do. The Roman Catholic Church did what no organization should do. They are paying dearly for it today. They could have avoided all of that by behaving in an ethical way that respected the law. They did not. Sadly, criminal convictions are often impossible, due to statute of limitations laws.
In many ways, the posting of such stories as this American Atheists story simply illustrates the difference between ethical and non-ethical organizations. There is a delicious irony in that, but it seems to go unnoticed by those who post those stories here. That's hardly surprising, of course, but ironic nonetheless.
I'll continue to point out that irony, whenever it is appropriate.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Does this group of atheists have no respect for due process and the rights of an accused?
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)Organizations and businesses can fire people for different reasons and with different degrees of evidence. Surely you knew that. Based on the articles, that organization had ample cause to fire him.
I guess I will have to assume less knowledge on your part in the future and explain things in more simple terms.
Voltaire2
(13,257 posts)a city state where he would be immune from extradition and then let him stay in an apartment in a palace while awaiting "trial" in a kangaroo court after which he might have to stay in his palace apartment a bit longer.
That is if there are even criminal charges involved. If there aren't then the example to follow would be to do absolutely nothing.
MineralMan
(146,350 posts)Well, some organizations would do that, but they're religious organizations and answer only to their "God," which doesn't seem to be paying much attention. If it did, a thoughtful guy would think it would probably be righteously pissed off.
In fact, that should make one wonder, I think. Wonder about, you know, the very existence of deities, in fact.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)the only proper resolution to all this is for every atheist to shut up and quit saying bad things about religion.
Gil might be happy then.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)It's extra special when you literally embarrass yourself.
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,004 posts)Or are you just pulling words out of your ass? Because I'm sure if they violated the contract, Silverman will make that clear and a court of law will decide.
And they should have fired him for it and I reckon they have a clause in the contract that allows them to fire for this.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Or your original planto catch atheists in a double-standard by defending "their guy"unexpectedly went to shit.
Either way, you should probably stop. I mean, it's one thing to accidentally step on your dick... it's quite another to stand there stomping on it, like you're doing now.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)it's that he has no sense of shame. He'll stomp on that dick just to show us.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)...that his dislike for atheists is so profound he will shit all over them for doing what we could all agree was the right thing to do.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)because an atheist group booted him out. The atheist group was concerned about separation of church and state, and did not think Trump would do enough to protect that.
So gil, in his hatred for atheists, tosses liberalism AND secularism (two things I THOUGHT everyone on this board would agree with) out the window so he can rail on atheists for being "intolerant" of a Trump-loving asshat.
Hopeless.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)He's tossing freedom of association out the window, too.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Does accusation equal conviction?
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Fuck me, the justice system works quickly these days.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Ask a lawyer.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Of course, the lawyer you'd ask isn't a very good one.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)a Catholic Priest then the organization would do everything they could to protect them. It is obvious from this that the religious need secularism to be moral.