Religion
Related: About this forumThere is only one Commandment in the Religion Group
Statement of Purpose
Discuss religious and theological issues. All relevant topics are permitted. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.
No other commandments are needed here. We are all welcome to join the discussion. All.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)But when it comes to religion, a lot of people mistake disagreement for being attacked.
It's odd to me that DU provides "safe spaces" for multiple religious groups where disagreement ISN'T allowed. The people who are offended by disagreement can post all they want there if they care to. But they don't. They get upset that there's this ONE forum where people can disagree with them. Just very strange.
Pendrench
(1,359 posts)If we all agreed, there wouldn't be much to discuss
As a practicing Catholic, I think that it's important that we discuss (and challenge) our own beliefs - and I know that I have done so when reading some of the posts presented here.
Wishing you well and peace!
Tim
Mariana
(14,861 posts)Here are people who rack up thousands of posts in this group, without having any of their posts hidden, without being blocked from the group, without being banned from DU, without being threatened with any action against them whatsoever. Then these same people pretend they're not allowed to post their opinions in this group. Not only is it a lie, it is a stupid lie, because it is so obviously untrue.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But not illegal.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The reason religionists have so much problem with that concept is they cant understand why they shouldnt be allowed to perpetuate their social privilege just as they always have.
Times were much simpler when heretics were burned at the stake.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Since you included no argument weak or otherwise for your allegation.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Based on your post.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I just find it rather ironic youd call another argument weak without even presenting one of your own, and Im not convinced you know what straw really means.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But your question is a fair one, so in the interest of dialogue, you said:
Times were much simpler when heretics were burned at the stake.
I find such claims to be weak. You know nothing about me save what I choose to reveal here. But if 85% of the population are theists, that is simply reality.
As to the last statement, heretics are not burned at the stake, nor are Christians thrown to the lions. Times change, but not perhaps as quickly as we might wish.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Thats probably where your problem started.
Its about anyone who makes a half-fast claim of persecution anytime they feel they arent being allowed to perpetuate their privilege without challenge. Its about the so-called War on Christmas and the freedom to use public funds to promote religious dogma. Its about using public education to teach alternative theories about talking snakes. Its about all the butthurt that goes on when anyone calls bullshit on these things and dozens of others hiding behind the banner of tolerance while simultaneously having none for anyone else. Whether or not any of this includes you, I have no idea and havent spent much time wondering.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)When discussions happen, atheists talk about religion, and theists hear believers. When someone says "Catholicism has a LGBTQIA problem ingrained in it's dogma" the response is "Why do you hate catholics? there are many Catholics who are for gay marriage" and then something about hamsters and bicycles.
As has been brought up, it's a reframing technique, the discussion is made personal, and then it's about individual practitioners rather than inherent flaws in the religion. As stated above, it's silly, but not illegal.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Condemnation of the policies of Israel is labeled as anti-Semitism. If you point out the Catholic Church has bigoted policies and protects child rapists you hate Catholics. If you point to some Islamic countries treatment of LGBT people you are an anti-Muslim bigot.
Its as if religion is so ingrained into who they are they cant differentiate between condemnation of a belief or actions of that beliefs authorities from condemnation of a person who may subscribe to that belief.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)but then get broadbrushed. within the last 24 hours the old canards about Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and, this one hasn't reared it's head for a while, Ayn Rand have all been brought up. Of course the defense is that it's not saying they're atheists, just irreligious, not Christian or what have you.
Gaslighting is what it's known as.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)Gil has told us that he receives numerous personal messages complaining about the "toxicity" in this group, asking him to continue doing what he is doing, and praising his efforts to "present balance" here. So, by his own admission, he is not here to discuss religion at all. He is here to "present balance" (whatever the fuck that means) and he is also performing for an audience.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218270285#post159
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218263189#post20
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Are white atheists who earn above average wages privileged?
In my view, the overuse of the word privilege renders it an obstacle to dialogue.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I shouldnt also have to remind you this is the religion group, so if you want to discuss white privilege or economic privilege theres better forums for it. Meanwhile you are in a poor position to understand religious privilege because you lack the experience of not having it. So rather than being so dismissive of the subject youd probably benefit from listening more and preaching less.
Just saying.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Do you have any privilege?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Pointing that obvious fact when someone else is talking about a specific type is frequently used as a dismissive tactic and simply provides more proof that we have a long way to go on the road to enlightenment.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Does this state of being privileged give you yourself no right to comment about things?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)While some remain apathetic and/or have no empathy to anyone on the other side of a particular social divide. Which one you choose speaks volumes about your character.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You are.
I see this is what inspired you to make another OP about a subject you don't understand, as is your MO.
It's sad that after all these years the theists here haven't learned a thing about religious privilege.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Who has privilege?
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You have just proved you lack even a rudimentary understanding of what the term means.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Welcome to the world of privilege.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Eko
(7,396 posts)both the same color making the same amount but one an atheist and the other a christian, the christian has more privilege.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Not a damned thing.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)They are convinced their opinion is all that's needed but insist the facts bear them out. Yet those particular facts never get shared.
Mariana
(14,861 posts)and, when it's a religious leader, their followers believe it, too.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Intellectual dishonesty is rather necessary to maintain belief in the unbelievable.
MineralMan
(146,341 posts)Mariana
(14,861 posts)and closes his eyes, and clicks his heels together, and wishes real, real hard, won't it magically come into existence?
No, I guess not. Oh well.
MineralMan
(146,341 posts)Many such are posted here.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,341 posts)C'est pour rire...
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Jean Giraudoux.
Mais c'est necessaire de la realizer pour le vaincre. En parlent, bien sur, de la condition.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Sounded kinda like a turkey, iirc
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It must be somewhere or this post would have no reason to exist.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)If only you could tell us where that is...
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Now you know where to look.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,131 posts)in hell, that is your choice.
Me, I am gonna hedge my bets and I am signing up with "Phil"
rzemanfl
(29,579 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)it is the 11th Commandment.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Latest attempt to stifle any discussion. All must agree or be silenced.
It'll pass when the next fad comes along.
MineralMan
(146,341 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Just more of the examples they've asked for ton demonstrate why discussions don't happen here.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Possibly to the third power.
Adding irony to the list of words you have a special definition for.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Perhaps I should have said unintentional irony, but the irony is massive whether intended or not.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)I'm not pushing the "11th" commandment" meme, using it to avoid discussion.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And what some of the replies revealed about the aptness of the observation.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)I found it interesting how "religion", "religious beliefs", and "theists" were all lumped together. It's as if the devaluation of any one of those things is no different than the other too. Very telling that.