Religion
Related: About this forumInteresting news: Another Vision of Black Elk
From the article:
During an illness when he was nine years old, he saw something that can be interpreted as the totality of earthly creation conjoined in glorious, sky-spanning unity......
Neihardt left out a key fact about Black Elk: after his baptism, which took place on the name day of St. Nicholas, in December of 1904, Black Elk was a practicing and proselytizing Catholic.
To read more:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/another-vision-of-black-elk
marble falls
(57,208 posts)Controversy
Though Black Elk was Oglala Lakota, the book was written by Neihardt, a non-Native. While the book is lauded by non-Native audiences, and has been inspirational to many New Age groups, traditional Lakota people and Native American scholars do not consider the book to be representative of Lakota beliefs.[5][6] They have debated the accuracy of the account, which has elements of a collaborative autobiography, spiritual text, and other genres. The Indiana University professor Raymond DeMallie, who has studied the Lakota by cultural and linguistic resources, published "The Sixth Grandfather" in 1985 including the original transcripts of the conversations with Black Elk, plus his own introduction, analysis and notes. He has questioned whether Neihardt's account is accurate and fully represents the views or words of Black Elk.[5]
The primary criticism made by DeMallie and similar scholars is that Neihardt, as the author and editor, may have exaggerated or altered some parts of the story to make it more accessible and marketable to the intended white audience of the 1930s, or because he did not fully understand the Lakota context.[6] Late twentieth-century editions of the book by Nebraska University Press have addressed this issue by entitling the book as Black Elk Speaks, as told through John G. Neihardt (aka "Flaming Rainbow" .[4]
Voltaire2
(13,159 posts)From the same article.
I respect my uncle, George Looks Twice, who started this sainthood movement, she told me. But there are Black Elks that are Catholic and Black Elks that arent. Im one of the ones that arent. Im a pagan, and proud to be. I think the Catholics wanted to be connected to Great-Grandpa because of his status in his tribe. He was a famous holy man before the Catholics came, and he remained a famous holy man after. In the family, we have stories of them trying to baptize him, and him hiding under a bed, and a priest pouring a bucket of water on him and pronouncing him baptized. At first, Great-Grandpa thought that he was the adult holy man and the baby Jesus must be his adopted little brother. But I dont believe Great-Grandpa ever really was a Catholic. Unless a religion is of your blood you cant truly embrace it. It never will be truly fulfilling.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/another-vision-of-black-elk
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)signature line. I appreciate that you are no longer attributing your statement to God. It's good of you to recognize the impropriety of doing that. I still disagree with your opinion of Mr. Tyson, but no longer object to it. Thanks for your cooperation with the many requests that you remove that attribution.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)MineralMan
(146,331 posts)As I said, thank you for removing the attribution.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Better if I had realized it prior to writing it.
Live, and with luck, learn.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)No faith and no sense of humor.
I am absolutely sure Mr. Tyson has a sense of humor:
"As they are currently practiced, there is no common ground between science and religion....Although just as in hostage negotiations, it's probably best to keep both sides talking to each other." - - NDT
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)in the interest of group harmony, and to avoid a potential source of discord, I decided to change it.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)intolerable?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Yes, they apparently did. But they will tolerate simplistic framing, and mis-framing, as long as one in the pantheon of non-theistic saints is not involved.
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)that Mr. deGrasse Tyson is not concentrating on his expertise regarding the quote that you were previously referring to? If you have not you should listen to the interview it comes from. He is talking about Bill O'Reilly saying that proof of God is the tides going in and out and we don't know why. I find he is somewhat stating something I have seen you state previously and that would be Science and Religion have differing domains and uses.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And yes, we are both aware of the non-overlapping magisteria argument that some here reject.