Satanist says he wont put on show at council meeting

[brooklynite]

Grand Junction Daily Sentinel:

The satanist who plans on giving the invocation at Wednesday’s Grand Junction City Council meeting said he’s not looking to “make a mockery” of the invocation and won’t be putting on a show.

“I’m not a theatrical person,” he said via phone. “I own no hooded robes and no small animals will be accompanying me.”

The self-identifying satanist, who declined to give his name and said he fears retribution from the community, said he considers himself a private person who wouldn’t normally get up in front of a crowd and give a presentation. But he said he’s willing to do so at the council meeting to make a point — that the policy the city has is all-inclusive, and that means satanists, too, in accordance with the law.

The City Council adopted a policy in 2008 which allows any individual or group in the community to submit its name to the city clerk, and then those applicants are randomly drawn. Those selected are allowed to give an invocation that doesn’t have any prior restraint — no time or content limits — and if the person selected for invocation doesn’t show up, a moment of silence is observed.

[procon]

1. Makes as much sense as anyone else who believes in supernatural beings.

Why even bother with an invocation? People are still going to lie, cheat and steal because there is nothing mystical or spiritual about power and greed.

[DetlefK]

2. There are two kinds of Satanists:

There are those who treat it as an actual religion.

And there are those who are basically atheists but treat the biblical figure of Satan/Lucifer as a role-model.
(Which is less shocking than it sounds: Satan's and Lucifer's whole deal is criticizing God and asking questions. You will be hard-pressed to find actual examples of them doing evil stuff in the Bible.)

[procon]

3. You lost me with the parable about atheists who would role-model nonexistant

supernational religious characters. This is an oxymoron, if you believe in Satan/Lucifer then you also accept the whole intertwined christian panoply of an omniscient god and all those attendant mystical beings. Apply any labels you prefer to biblical characters, but either you are an atheist, or you are not.

As an atheist, I have neither criticisms or questions for something that doesn't exist. Its rather as nonsensical as wanting to ask the fabled Zeus if he prefers being the bull or a swan. Although I wouldn't argue if a leprechaun invited me out for a beer.

[TlalocW]

4. Would you say the same thing about...

Someone whose role-model growing up was Atticus Finch from, "To Kill a Mockingbird?"

I'm an atheist too, and I see what they're getting at.

TlalocW

[procon]

5. Its a work of fiction, and not generally used as a religious tome, yeah?

That was the basis of your original opinion, as I read it, that you made the claim that atheists would use occult icons drawn from religious text as a model of deportment. If a role model must be factored in, certainly there are plenty of real life examples to choose.

[brooklynite]

6. The Satantic Temple is no different that Pastafarians...

...they claim the rights and privileges of religious entities to broadly challenge established religion.

[procon]

8. Yes, no argument here, but still has no correlation to the poster above

who opined that atheists would choose to emulate characters from christian religious works.

[Lordquinton]

7. People find role models in fiction all the time

The nature of the fictional texts doesn't really matter.

[beam me up scottie]

9. The two kinds of Satanists are atheistic and theistic.

The former don't believe in gods so they're still atheists.

The Church of Satan explains it better than I can.

Founded on April 30, 1966 c.e. by Anton Szandor LaVey, we are the first above-ground organization in history openly dedicated to the acceptance of Man’s true nature—that of a carnal beast, living in a cosmos that is indifferent to our existence. To us, Satan is the symbol that best suits the nature of we who are carnal by birth—people who feel no battles raging between our thoughts and feelings, we who do not embrace the concept of a soul imprisoned in a body. He represents pride, liberty, and individualism—qualities often defined as Evil by those who worship external deities, who feel there is a war between their minds and emotions.

http://www.churchofsatan.com

[guillaumeb]

11. I believe that Ayn Rand would have agreed with this. eom

[beam me up scottie]

12. I've never heard a Satanist praise Rand but I have heard a Catholic do so.

Paul Ryan is big fan:

Ryan has referenced Rand repeatedly over the course of her career, saying her writings got him into economics and policy. Ryan told the New Yorker recently that he has been reading Rand since high school; it was “Atlas Shrugged” that got him interested in economics. In March of 2003, Ryan told the Weekly Standard he was still a huge fan.

“I give out ‘Atlas Shrugged’ as Christmas presents, and I make all my interns read it,” he said. “Well... I try to make my interns read it.”

***

Ryan spoke to the Atlas Society, a Rand-devoted group, in 2005, telling the group that Rand was “the reason I got involved in public service, by and large.” He cited two excerpts from “Atlas Shrugged” that he goes back to frequently: “Francisco d’Anconia’s speech ... on money” and “the 64-page John Galt speech.”

The Galt speech is a summary of Objectivism (here’s an Atlas Society outline).Slate’s Dave Weigel has a deep dive into the other speech, in which a copper mine owner rails against the end of the gold standard and the use of paper money to help “legal looters.”

And in a 2009 video series, Ryan added: “I think Ayn Rand did the best job of anybody to build a moral case of capitalism, and that morality of capitalism is under assault.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/what-ayn-rand-says-about-paul-ryan/2012/08/13/fd40d574-e56d-11e1-8741-940e3f6dbf48_blog.html?utm_term=.83da60517db0

Seems like some theists are really into her.

[guillaumeb]

13. Paul Ryan is indeed a disciple of Rand. Or was, if one can believe him about anything.

Interesting to me how Ryan apparently can reconcile Jesus and Ayn Rand.

[guillaumeb]

10. Read Matthew 4:1-11

Whether this is classified as evil or not depends on the reader.

[DetlefK]

14. This part makes Jesus look really, really bad.

- "Make bread from stone!"
- "Eh, No. Man also needs spiritual nourishment."

- "Make God save you!"
- "Forcing God's hand is against the rules."

- "Join me and I'll make you rich and famous!"
- "Fuck off."



In every single challenge Jesus refuses to confront Lucifer.
1. He refused to conjure bread with a philosophical catch-all argument that can be applied to any refusal anywhere anytime.
2. He refused to abuse his powers to win an argument. (Okay, that's not that bad. But maybe it's okay to go all in when confronting LUCIFER!)
3. How could Lucifer even credibly offer to Jesus to make him ruler of Earth? Isn't it God who reigns? Why didn't he call Lucifer a liar?

Jesus didn't win those arguments. He refused to engage in the arguments.

[guillaumeb]

15. Jesus exposes Lucifer's motives.

A man does not live by bread alone. Jesus refused to engage with Lucifer on Lucifer's terms.

[DetlefK]

16. Then what would the encounter have looked liked on Jesus' terms?

Why would Jesus multiply loafs and fishes to feed the masses... and then NOT preach to them to give them spiritual nourishment? Same with the wedding in Canaa.

And Jesus dared stuff that forced God to intervene. He walked on water, fully knowing he wouldn't sink. He allowed himself to be crucified, fully knowing that he would come back.

[guillaumeb]

17. Jesus lived His life on His terms.

And with a full knowledge of His fate. His life was an example.