"Going Clear: HBO Scientology film

[edhopper]

I finally saw it the other night and thought it was riveting.
Did we ever discuss it here?

I'll start with one takeaway I got:

In living memory we have seen the rise of two religions with a lot of influence and followers. Both are demonstrably based on bullshit ginned up by con-men. Scientology and Mormonism. This has not stopped it's believes from following it with literally missionary zeal.

But we are suppose to accept that nomads, goat-herders and day-laborers, thousands of years somehow found the truth and aren't as ridiculous as these?


The other thing I got was how easy it is to intimidate the US government and how the Congress thinks Acorn and Planned Parenthood are threats but leaves these thugs alone.

[TheBlackAdder]

1. That was Mandatory Watching for my kids. Helps to identify cult influences and actions.

.

Having written a college term paper on cult influence back in the 1980's this show reinforced many of the traits of cults. How people will mainly return to a neutral state if they are able to escape their influences, but escaping IS the problem. Just like with even the Amish and many Baptists, if you leave the church you are cut off from family... this is a big control mechanism.

If a religion needs to pressure its congregation to stay, by levying ostracisation, is their message really strong?

===

Also, the threats of lawsuits really shows how weak the government is. Supposedly, their tax status is under review, but let's see how that plays out.

[edhopper]

2. Do you think early

Judaism, Christianity and Islam functioned in the same way?

Obviously Mormonism started as a cult and had the good sense to take it's followers somewhere where there was no leaving the group.

Unlike most times when religion is involved, I think your last comment shows it is about power and not the beliefs of the religion.

[TheBlackAdder]

3. It's quite possible. There were numerous religious factions before the advent of those three.

.

People are ritualistic, so the aforementioned religions took many traditions, celebrations, dates, and parts of those that predated it to make them palatable to people. Any new religion is a threat to the current institutions and it is not unreasonable to think that members were not pressured to remain.


Power, money and its conversion to political power are the main motivators of most people. This is true of the French Revolutions bourgeoisie successfully convincing the poor to overthrow their government so they could rise into power, to the Kochs who are using their wealth to affect political and cultural change in the country.

.

[edhopper]

4. And unfortunately

it is the beliefs of those they manipulate that lets them attain those goals.

Their goal is to protect and act on their beliefs. Their motivation is religious.

[Major Nikon]

8. Not just early

Blasphemy is still a crime in most of the word including many western countries and is punishable by everything from a fine to death. Blasphemy and atheism was punishable in the American colonies until the Bill of Rights guaranteed religious freedom. So it's really only a relatively recent phenomena that most modern religions didn't stop operating as even more cult like than the two you mentioned. Once you remove the threat of force and ostracism, religion inevitably declines.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Bullshit doesn't get less bullshitty by being aged.

I fail to see any substantial difference in level of bullshit between Scientology and other religions.

[SheilaT]

6. I've come to the conclusion

that all religions are cults. All of them.

It's true that the ones we consider mainstream Protestant, and reform Judaism, and sometimes Catholicism don't generally behave like cults, but look at ultra Orthodox Judaism, so-called Protestant fundamentalism, and the extremes of Islam. Cults, pure and simple.

[edhopper]

7. With Catholicism

it's not the congregation so much (with some exceptions). But the clergy certainly looks to be a cult.