Why Pope Francis Won’t Let Women Become Priests

[Warren Stupidity]

Despite his talk of expanded roles for women in the Church, Francis is still firmly against ordaining women as priests or, for that matter, as clergy of any kind. He has even rejected the idea of reviving an older tradition of lay cardinals that would include women. (A lay cardinal is a nonclerical member of the College of Cardinals.) The proposal has drawn influential support from the likes of Lucetta Scaraffia, a historian and columnist for the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano, but Francis has unambiguously shot it down. Francis’s clearest statement on the ordination issue came during an airborne press conference in July 2013, when he was returning from Rio de Janeiro. “The Church has spoken and says no. . . . That door is closed,” he said.
...
For many people, including rank-and-file Catholics who believe in gender equality, it is difficult to square Francis’s overall reputation as a maverick and a progressive reformer—plus his specific pledges to enhance the role of women in Catholicism—with his steadfast defense of the status quo when it comes to female priests.

The fundamental reason for the Church’s refusal to admit women to the priesthood is that it’s bound by the example of Christ. Jesus did not include women among his original 12 apostles, so the argument runs, and the Church is compelled to follow that example, restricting the priesthood today to men. Although Francis presumably accepts that teaching, it’s not the basis of his own stance on the issue. For him, the push for women priests is where two forces repellent to him intersect: machismo, which is an especially resonant concept for a Latin American, and clericalism, an exaggerated emphasis on the power and privilege of the clergy, which is virtually this pope’s personal bête noire.

http://time.com/3729904/francis-women/

So in summary, misogyny must continue because god.

[hrmjustin]

1. It is past time for the church to open up Holy Orders to women.

My church did.

[Freddie]

3. So did mine

In fact, the national Bishop of the ELCA is Rev. Elizabeth Eaton.
One of many, many reasons I refused to join the Catholic Church or "sign the papers" (much to the distress of my in-laws, who got over it) when I married an Irish Catholic years ago. Eventually my husband joined the Lutheran church.

[hrmjustin]

4. The Episcopal Church and The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America both have a woman presiding

bishop and both churches are in communion with one another.

We're kissing cousins!

[merrily]

2. I thought the reason was Paul.

Women traveling around the countryside with a group of men would not have been accepted 200 years ago, let alone 2000 years ago.

And Jesus did tell his disciplines that Magdalene got it right when she washed his feet and they all had gotten it wrong when they criticized her for doing that. And, clearly, he was fond of Mary and Martha, as well as of his own mother. (Why are there so many Marys in the NT?)

Jesus pointed out that Peter denied him (Jesus) three times, yet the church says that Peter is the base of all of all of Christianity, based on interpreting a pun made by Jesus.

Jesus did not pal around with Paul, either, yet the Church says his letters are the bulk of the NT.

So, in all, I think Pope Frankie must be winking when he attributes the Church's position to practices of Jesus.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Well sure, as that is where the religion and its myths and legends start.

"because god" was just citing those myths.

[merrily]

9. As I see it, here are at least two ways to discuss something that is

supposedly based on what the Bible says.

One is to say that Jesus never existed at all or, if he existed at all, he was not divine. Therefore, the Pope is silly to try to base anything in the Catholic religion on what Jesus supposedly said or did. And that is one logically valid approach, if that is what one actually believes.

Another is to say, assuming that the Pope is correct to look to the Bible for bases of Catholic traditions, his interpretation is not exactly unassailable.

I usually opt for the second route.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. Well (2) is just citing this babble as proof that that babble is babble.

The sacred texts are just a mashup of stuff, frequently contradictory, and worse, frequently abhorrent to modern sensibilities. So getting into the bible quoting game just seems to be a good way to lose the argument to the voices of unreason and illiberalism.

[merrily]

14. No, I didn't cite anything as proof of anything. I pointed out that the Bible does not

necessarily back up Pope Francis's claim.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. Or it does. Or it does and it doesn't.

Last edited Sun Mar 15, 2015, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

And then you've opened the door to all sorts of shit nobody wants, all of it in the bible.

[Trillo]

5. It's probably necessary for the money to keep flowing.

Gotta keep the masses of people gullible.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Odd though, women are generally more religious than men,

so it would seem that "keeping the money flowing" would be better served by reaching out to women rather than shitting on them. On the other hand a 1700 year old boys club is not about to open the doors, so it is more about who exactly the money and power is flowing to, rather than how much money is flowing.

[merrily]

10. It's only recently in the 2000 year old history of Christianity that women had their own money.

Old ways die hard, I suppose. Besides, there is that bit about women being inferior that traces back to Judaism: "I thank God every day that I am not a woman."

Except I can't do that with any degree of credibility, because I am a woman.

[goldent]

12. I agree - I don't see how money plays a part

In my Catholic parish the actual handling of finances etc is often done by women.

[Chemisse]

8. If who can become a priest is based upon Jesus and the disciples,

then white men couldn't become priests, people who don't speak Hebrew can't become priests, those who don't live in the Middle East can't become priests. And on and on.

In Jesus's day, women's roles were more defined and very different from men's roles in that day. Cultural changes can easily justify inclusion of women in modern times, if the pope were inclined to explore that possibility.

[merrily]

11. Changing culture however does not change what the Bible says, which is that women are

not supposed to talk in church. If they have a question, they are not to ask the person conducting services, as the man are free to do. Rather, they are to wait until they go home and ask their husbands. It does not even bother to say what single women and widows are supposed to do with their questions.

Of course, that bit came from Paul, not Jesus and it was the Church that decided that bit should be considered part of the divinely inspired word of God in the first place. So, it's a bit circular.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. If you allow for modern *revision* to the explicit doctrine in the bible, then sure

your comment is fine, and dandy, and indeed, churches overall do show a tendency to evolve to keep up with society, at least to the point they aren't reduced to social pariahs.

But that evolution always lags far behind society. The year I was born, the Mormon church finally started admitting black people to the temple, dropping the claim they were born of the line of cursed people from the murder of Cain.

That's how lagged the churches are, behind society. I see few, if any, leading social change.

[mr blur]

17. Well, he does have a history of it -

[trotsky]

18. Seven Pope Francis Quotes That Make Women Wince

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/11/pope-francis-women_n_6307822.html

“When the church does not (evangelize), then the church stops herself, is closed in on herself, even if she is well-organized, has a perfect organizational chart, everything’s fine, everything’s tidy — but she lacks joy, she lacks peace, and so she becomes a disheartened church, anxious, sad, a church that seems more like a spinster than a mother, and this church doesn’t work, it is a church in a museum. The joy of the Church is to give birth … “

— Homily at morning Mass, Dec. 9, 2014

I'm sure they're all mistranslations. Or something. Really, he's a Wonderpope and wants to ordain women and marry gays and accept transsexuals and make all the liberal dreams come true. Trust his knee-jerk defenders, they know! Just ask them!

[Lordquinton]

19. "When the church does not (evangelize)"

So the Pope is not only being an misogynistic old ass, but also saying that if the church isn't proselytizing, then it's dead in it's tracks? Man, if only certain people here had some sense of integrity they'd tell him they're not interested in what he has to say.

[trotsky]

20. Integrity? Consistency?

Not necessary for (and in fact detrimental to) the cause of defending religion at all costs.