Religion
Related: About this forumThe Catholic Church will not be changing its views on sex. It cannot and it should not.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100277882/the-catholic-church-will-not-be-changing-its-views-on-sex-it-cannot-and-it-should-not/Indeed, the Churchs response to the survey was a very orthodox one. It has affirmed its essential teachings, including in the area of contraception. True, it has spoken of the need to simplify and streamline procedures for the annulment of marriages but annulment is a perfectly Christian idea that the Church has always endorsed. True, also, that it has said that gays and lesbians should be treated in a respectful, non-judgmental way but, again, this is entirely congruent with a Church doctrine that says that LGBTQ people have as much human dignity as everyone else. The Church added that there will be no movement on the subject of gay marriage. Anyone expect such a thing would be a fool: it would require a complete overhaul of the faith. Moreover, anyone who thinks that Catholics might shift on divorce is not only living in another universe but unfamiliar with Matthew 19.
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Francis papacy represents a revitalisation of the spirit of the Church. The Pope is a perfect example of what every priest should be: energetic and compassionate. But he does not support a revolution in Church teaching and critics are deluding themselves if they expect to see one. The Catholic Church does not do change, and it shouldnt. Not if it believes that what it believes is the Truth.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Because the RCC has NEVER been wrong, right?
Exactly. Just ask them!
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)No meaningful change will occur. Francis is a PR move. The unwillingness to allow true change in the church will result in a further decline in membership. Pope Francis = PR and nothing more.
The church is wrong is on too many matters, including proper doctrine.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)And while if he can get the church to at least put its outdated teachings aside in favor of social and economic justice concerns, that would be a major accomplishment, those teachings will still be there to float back up to the surface like the disgusting turd they are.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)will NOT be a priority.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)I did so in mind in the 60s as a teenager in Catholic School, and totally parted company as an adult in 70s. What really galls me, is that the Catholic Church wants to LEGISLATE their religious dogma on a national front on those who do not believe as they do; even to the point of PRIVATE FOR PROFIT Business. I would NEVER work for the Catholic Church, or their schools or Non-Porfits, but how does anyone know what religion their private for profit employer is?
Take away the Catholic Church's Tax Exempt Status. I left them of my own FREE WILL. I do not want the USA to tell me that I still must still be under the Catholic Church's thumb because some employer happens to be Catholic. Big FU THAT.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)I would never attend a Roman School (note Catholic schools are drug testing their students now, another reason to never send your kids there).
I am too for levying taxes on the RCC.
WovenGems
(776 posts)The church will continue to say boo regarding how the American Catholics view the subject. No sense shaking the pot if ain't going to bring any good.
okasha
(11,573 posts)could someone please give me the winning Texas Lotto numbers for Saturday?
THNX
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Let's raise the tone and have a discussion. Are you willing to do so?
rug
(82,333 posts)See below.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Does it really make you feel superior to descend to that level of apologetics for such a bigoted and sexist organization?
If so, keep at it. Keep telling yourself that the RCC has the very best interests of homosexuals, women and pagans at heart.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,405 posts)which Fred Clark, a liberal Baptist, called "The Stupidest Thing I Have Ever Read":
First a bit of background to set the stage and to explain how it was that I came to read the Stupidest Thing I Have Ever Read. This is from Religion Dispatches, an article by Patricia Miller titled, The Story Behind the Catholic Churchs Stunning Reversal on Contraception wherein Miller quotes a small portion of the Stupidest Thing I Have Ever Read.
Millers subject here is the papal commission which was purportedly assigned to evaluate the reform of the Roman Catholic Churchs teaching on contraception. That commissions report provided a resounding call for reform, and was thus overruled. Heres Miller:
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Unhappy with the direction of the commission, the Vatican packed the last commission meetings with fifteen bishops to formulate the final recommendation to the pope. But even the bishops voted nine to three (three abstained from voting) to change the teaching, concluding that the popes previous teaching on birth control were not infallible and that the traditional theological basis for the prohibition of contraception was invalid. They declared that responsible parenthood was an essential part of modern marriage and that the morality of sexual acts between married couples was not dependent upon the direct fecundity of each and every particular act but must be viewed within the totality of the marriage relationship.
Despite the commissions years of work and theologically unassailable conclusion that the churchs teaching on birth control was neither infallible nor irreversible, Pope Paul VI stunned the world on July 29, 1968, when he reaffirmed the churchs ban on modern contraceptives in Humanae Vitae (Of Human Life). He declared that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life.
The pope had deferred to a dissenting minority report prepared by four conservative theologian priests on the commission that maintained contraception was a sin against nature and a shameful and intrinsically vicious act. These theologians said that church could not change its teaching on birth control because admitting the church had been wrong about the issue for centuries would raise questions about the moral authority of the pope, especially on matters of sexuality, and the belief that the Holy Spirit guided his pronouncements. The Church cannot change her answer because this answer is true. It is true because the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ could not have so wrongly erred during all those centuries of its history, they wrote.
As one of the conservative theologians famously asked one of the female members of the commission, what would happen to the millions we have sent to hell for using contraception if the teaching were suddenly changed?
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But no. The full context only makes this worse. Here, in full, is the Stupidest Thing I Have Ever Read:
The Church cannot change her answer because this answer is true. Whatever may pertain to a more perfect formulation of the teaching or its possible genuine development, the teaching itself cannot be substantially true. It is true because the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ to show men a secure way to eternal life, could not have so wrongly erred during all those centuries of its history. The Church cannot substantially err in teaching doctrine which is most serious in its import for faith and morals, throughout all centuries or even one century, if it has been constantly and forcefully proposed as necessarily to be followed in order to obtain eternal salvation. The Church could not have erred through so many centuries, even though one century, by imposing under serious obligation very grave burdens in the name of Jesus Christ, if Jesus Christ did not actually impose those burdens. The Catholic Church could not have furnished in the name of Jesus Christ to so many of the faithful everywhere in the world, throughout so many centuries, the occasion for formal sin and spiritual ruin, because of a false doctrine promulgated in the name of Jesus Christ.
If the Church could err in such a way, the authority of the ordinary magisterium in moral matters would be thrown into question. The faithful could not put their trust in the magisteriums presentation of moral teaching, especially in sexual matters.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2014/06/10/the-stupidest-thing-i-have-ever-read/
Htom Sirveaux
(1,242 posts)He's great at taking on conservative Christians. And yeah, the path in the article is the path the church hierarchy has been heading down ever since.
rug
(82,333 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Here's some more of his journalism you so enjoy.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100187943/dan-hodges-and-tim-stanley-debate-barack-obama-and-the-mendacity-of-hope/
I look forward to you posting editorials from the New York Post.