African American
Related: About this forumLoving vs Loving?
Mildred Loving
and
Ruth Negga, the actress playing Mildred Loving in the "Loving" movie which is soon to be released
and
Ruth Negga (born 1982) is an Ethiopian-Irish actress https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruth_Negga
Ruth is a stunning woman, there is certainly no question of that. But you know what, Mildred was too. And she was clearly black (even though, according to sources, she identified as Indian for reasons I don't fully understand).
And what really gets me about this is that Mildred Loving was not a dark woman herself and they still cast a bi-racial (black/white) woman to play her. In a Hollywood where I swear you can count on two hands the number of black actresses that are household names and can count on one hand with fingers left over the number of brown/dark skinned black actresses that are household names, this is just weird.
I thought all of this crap died in the 70s?
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)Could she have been biracial? In which case casting a biracial actor would make sense.
ON EDIT:
This piece says she was African American and Native American.
http://www.biography.com/people/mildred-loving-5884
Number23
(24,544 posts)play her in the movie about her life.
I'm not dark at all but there is still no denying that I am a black woman of two black parents. Mildred and I are about the same complexion.
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)On the other hand, she is biracial -- though maybe there aren't a lot of actors with her combination of African American and Native American.
Number23
(24,544 posts)are multi-racial, Mildred looks black to me. A light skinned black woman. Happy to be wrong but I know what I'm looking at.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)I think what's jarring is that bi racial seems to always mean a mixture of black and white in color, meaning usually something lighter than black.
This is so wrong that it's almost amusing. You can have children of the same mother and father of completely different skin tones, black and white mixed heritages with ink black skin, or almost white skin and variations in between.
There is no set color for 'mix' of any kind. Mother nature decides that. However in movies, Hollywood plays mother nature and Hollywood's mother nature likes light skin.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Native American ancestry as well as white and what I see when I look at Mildred is a black American woman. I don't see a mixed race, black/Native American woman.
She looks like she could be any member of my family, none of whom identified as "mixed race" even with the strong amount of white and Native American in our ancestries.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)With 'mixed race' and I don't really like the word, I prefer mixed heritage, you can have literally anything and most times you won't see anything of note. After all almost everyone in the planet is 'mixed'. You can have a 'pure black african' with the same color skin, and bone struture and a mixed white and black person with darker and stereotypical 'African features '.
For me, with the artistic licence Hollywood often gives itself, it more often than not errs to lightskin if it can't get away with white.
In this case, there isn't really much to have issue with as I see it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)I'll just leave you to it.
All I'm saying is that Mildred was not a dark woman and they still hired a lighter, bi-racial (black/white) actress to play her because of Hollywood's propensity to hire light-skinned actresses. They even hired a bi-racial actress to play Hariet Tubman in some idiotic vampire movie a year or so ago. http://madamenoire.com/195255/colorism-in-the-abe-lincoln-vampire-hunter-film-and-why-it-does-matter/
And we've been talking alot about colorism in this forum because of the bruha over the Nina Simone movie. Maybe you didn't see that.
A light skinned black actress to play Mildred would have been accurate and they still hired a LIGHTER, bi-racial actress to play her. I wish we could see much more of the full range of black, female beauty on screen.
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)Also, it's hard to compare the "lightness" when her photos are black and white and the actors are in color.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And that includes lots of different ethnicities, which I've already said.
Number23
(24,544 posts)futilely trying to make in my OP about Hollywood's propensity for hiring lighter skinned actresses for stories about black women of all colors even more valid.
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)In this set there's one indoors of her that might be more accurate (the only picture in color) -- and you're right that it is still darker than the actor who will be playing her.
http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/collection_0c4751a8-fa4f-11e4-bfdf-7f162ae432f4.html
Number23
(24,544 posts)pnwmom
(109,020 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,980 posts)Black skin on film until about 1980. The more accurate representation of her complexion is the color picture from when she was older.
ETA - just one article.
http://petapixel.com/2015/09/19/heres-a-look-at-how-color-film-was-originally-biased-toward-white-people/
This is why I "know" my father's mother's coloring. Film rendered her my complexion but as a little girl - from my memory - she could have passed as a white woman but chose not to. In their wedding picture my grandfather looks very dark (next to her) when in fact he was Idris Elba's complexion.
rusty quoin
(6,133 posts)to go through the bullshit they did. I love hero types like those two. Hero does not always mean military.
Number23
(24,544 posts)to be exquisite.
My point was about the role that colorism continues to play even when casting black actresses for roles where fairly light skinned women are the characters to be played.
JustAnotherGen
(31,980 posts)After the Nina Simone debacle it is obvious as hell. When does the moral licensing stop? Remember - when it is a bi-racial black woman - they hire Angelina Jolie. This movie is getting rave reviews post Cannes (though I can't imagine Joel Edgerton playing her husband) and I applaud the screenwriter, producers, and distributors for getting it done . . . But the question remains. Why?
Number23
(24,544 posts)Considering we've been talking ALOT lately about colorism in this forum, I thought it was another instance of Hollywood doing it's "light, bright and damn near white" impersonation.
Here we have a woman (Mildred) who was not even dark, who was fairly light complexioned herself and they STILL hired a much lighter actress (Ruth) to portray her in the movie. The question you asked "why?" is exactly why I posted this OP.
Remember - when it is a bi-racial black woman - they hire Angelina Jolie.
Exactly. And even when it's a fairly light skinned black woman, they still have to go 3-5 shades lighter and hire a bi-racial actress. This same thing happened a few years ago when they were doing that (truly horrible sounding) biography on Aaliyah.
Aaliyah was a fairly light skinned black singer
and they STILL hired a bi-racial (black/white) actress, Zendaya, to play her in the horrible looking/sounding biography
and there was alot of controversy about that until Zendaya eventually dropped out of of the film.
When does the moral licensing stop?
Apparently never. And yes, this movie has been getting rave reviews and I genuinely can't wait to see it. It looks wonderful. Remember when I posted about taking my husband to see "Belle" and how astonished he was that this incredibly stunning, beautiful woman hated herself because of her skin color? He practically fell out of the theater, he was so emotionally affected by that movie. I'll be taking him to see Loving too. His education will continue.
JustAnotherGen
(31,980 posts)About these two. HBO I think - see if you can find it online.
And if it makes you feel better/validated - my husband didn't like the casting choice either. Doesn't think she looks anything like Mildred - but he doesn't just see "black". You would never hear - She is a beautiful "black" woman out of his mouth. There's no default setting in his brain to white.
See if you can find the documentary. It has footage of them just hanging out in their house.
They were a nice couple.
Let me share - when I was a little girl I HATED old cowboy and Indian movies. Hated when my dad would watch those. I finally told him - those aren't REAL Indians (Native Americans).
If I can get twisted over that, and Mickey Rooney in racist "Asian" face - I side eye this.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)while a black person might not be biracial, they may have had ancestors who were. So, was that white or Native American ancestry from the parents or a few generations back?
In the tidewater areas of Maryland, Virginia and Delaware it was very common for the Native Americans to marry into the free black population. My wife is of that ancestry, too; her maternal grandfather looked like a slightly black Native American, actually. We have no actual facts about his ancestry, however. Her paternal grandfather looked like a slightly black Italian. Her parents are both considered black, however.
I have also seen biracial children of all skin hues and hair textures, some not necessarily lighter than the darker parent. Some I would not guess to be biracial at all. Others were so light they could fool my pretty practiced eye, and pass easily as white. Everything in between, too.
Number23
(24,544 posts)the way the woman who was hired to play her in the film is.
She was not dark by any measure and they still found a woman considerably lighter to play her in the film about her life. When the day comes that darker skinned black women are being cast to play lighter skinned characters, then this will have evened itself out. Judging by this country's history, that will probably happen in about another 320 years.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I don't know that she is darker, but to me, Loving's features are more African, and less European.
Dark-skinned actresses still have a tough time in Hollywood, with the rare exception of Viola Davis, and only because of Shonda Rhimes, who has changed the whole damn game all by herself.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And I'll never forget a quote she made a few years ago that was something to the effect of:
When I go to the castings, I put on my prettiest dress, and my best makeup and wear my most inviting smiles. And I still get cast as the maid.
I've said it once, I'll say it again. White Hollywood (in its current iteration) MUST die.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)The characters are more complex, too. TV is really leading the way, in the cable channel productions.
There has still been no dark-skinned black woman held up as a beauty ideal. The closest is Lupita N'Yongo, who is at least making magazine covers.
Number23
(24,544 posts)But the fact that we can count on one hand the number of dark skinned, short haired black women who are held up as beauty standards is a massive part of the problem. And even both of them, I'm sure, caught hell from the "arbiters" of beauty that just don't get them and never will.
The vast majority of the blondes and the "blondes" that Hollywood keeps shoving down my throat as the beauty ideal do nothing but get a big old "meh" out of me. I see significantly prettier women than Gwyneth Paltrow and Jennifer Lawrence at the grocery store.
The characters are more complex, too. TV is really leading the way, in the cable channel productions.
Yes, that has been incredibly encouraging. And I hope that it continues. BehindtheAegis and I are always talking about television in this forum and he has been incredibly excited about the increasing diversity of characters on television. He was the one who told me about the Vixen tv show (based on the superhero) but I haven't heard anything else about it. I hope that it still comes on.
And diversity doesn't mean just black people or just black women or even just dark skinned black women (though all of these things would be sublime) to me. I also would love to see more Asians, Arabs, Polynesians etc. the full range of America on television and movies.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Whites and African-Americans are just a small part of the mix. We have white people and black people from all over the world, not to mention all other ethnic and racial groups. This is all part of the daily life here, and should be represented in tv and movies.
Multiracial kids are extremely common, too. That is the new America.
JustAnotherGen
(31,980 posts)Right here -
Loving's features are more African
That was my husband's immediate thought. But he's a sculptor and is more inclined to notice features than skin tone.
Truthfully I think he has a crush on Abbie (He's a Sleepy Hollow fan) - but he doesn't understand why they didn't go with Nicole Beharie:
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Beautiful, and resembling.
Number23
(24,544 posts)And thanks to Mr. JAG too.
THIS is a woman who I think would be much more aesthetically accurate as Mildred Loving. And she is a beautiful black woman with DISTINCTIVELY black and beautiful features.
Look at those pictures of Mildred. I see a black nose, lips and the distinctive "kink" of Negroid hair. I don't see much of that in Ruth.
JustAnotherGen
(31,980 posts)She does have better "features" for the role. He was just happy to have a reason to Google Nicole B last night .. .after this weeks Idris and Redford pictures he said I had it coming. He reads DU all of the time.
ismnotwasm
(42,022 posts)Finds the lightest skin to represent black women. I think it's irritating (at best) and racist.
I remember when I was very young, being stunned by Cicely Tysons beauty along with her dark skin. Me Being white, that expression of beauty was important for me to see to help me overcome unrealistic beauty standards, as well as my own inner racist. To me, skin shades of all kinds should be represented. We are so much poorer because we insist on neutral.