Not Supporting a Candidate When You are Black

[JustAnotherGen]

POSTED IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN GROUP - IF YOUR FIRST POST BACK HERE IS GOING TO BE IN RESPONSE TO THIS THREAD PLEASE STOP BEFORE YOU START - THANKS.

I think - personally - Does not mean you have Stockholm Syndrome.

Since another thread back here was alerted on and hidden (just look at the group for that one - it's high up on the page) -

I thought I would bring it up.

Black DU'ers - do you feel you have Stockholm Syndrome JUST because you aren't hot? In need of ice water and aloe? In need of an emergency room? Having a fever?


Do you think you are a 'simpleton'?

Why is it when you are smart, faster, more efficient, more resilient and able to withstand societal pressures better -

That some folks seem to think it's the other way around? That we are simple feeble minded fools cowering in a corner with a figurative gun to our heads?

Can we discuss?

Because I read something really really disturbing this morning and it needs to be discussed.

[randys1]

1. No, you cant discuss, if you say ANYTHING but support of Bernie, you will be told to shut up

[JustAnotherGen]

2. I find it ironic

That Liberal Stalwart posted a thread about HRC back here and it stands - and is rec'd by probably some of the people who were glad to see her gone for being just as truthful about Bernie.

I also don't think a single onf them REALLY read her OP - or they would have seen that she jabbed at Bernie near the end.

[Coolest Ranger]

3. Dropping in for a few moments to add my two cents

I was undecided but thanks to the actions of a few people, I have made up my mind who I am going to vote for, but I'm not going to say who I vote for until after the primaries are over and we have a nominee.

It's simple my reasons for doing so. I am a black man. I'm also a gay black man. I am also part white and I'm part Native American. My issues are more so for what happens to people of color, especially black people since that's all they see when it comes to me. Every time I have tried to talk about the issues that matter to me and the issues that matter to me are the same issues that matter to the black lives matter people.

There are a certain group of people I have met and out of fear for getting a hide I'm not going to call them out but every time I have expressed what matters to me, I'm told and these are actual quotes from said candidate most vocal and extremist supporters that I am being divisive. I am being disrespectful to the candidate, I'm told what said candidate record is. I'm called the n word for attacking said candidate even though all I am doing is expressing what matters to me. I often get called a sell out, I get called a coward because I won't back said coward. I have had to block more of said candidate supporters who tune me out and who have treated me with such disrespect. It's why I don't come to post as often as I would like to do for fear that they would target me and add me to list of people of color they are trying to silence and until that changes, I won't be posting as much but this topic interested me and I thought I would add my comments for what they are worth.

Vanishing back into the void now.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. Thank you for dropping in

your points and reasons are all valid.

And you aren't a simpleton.

You aren't ignorant.

You are your own damned man!

[greatauntoftriplets]

5. "Stockholm Syndrome"

[JustAnotherGen]

6. Check out the tacked thread

At the top of the group.

Yeah - there was nothing wrong with that op other than a bunch of nosy lookie lous sticking their noses in here.

[greatauntoftriplets]

8. That came to MIRT so I saw it first thing this morning.

I really hope this doesn't become a new DU meme...you disagree with me so there must be something wrong with you because the gods forbid that your belief is just as valid as mine.

[MADem]

19. Love that--they can't make it sink when it's nailed to the door like that! Brilliant move! nt

[Blue_Tires]

7. Believe it or not, the vitriol is much worse on twitter...

[JustAnotherGen]

9. I believe it

And you now have to ask metro follow me. A few folks at DU follow me there - but I'm not going to engage with a bunch of damn fools.

[Number23]

10. I'm black and undecided. And considering that the regulars on this forum are BY FAR the most

informed, educated, well-traveled and intelligent group of posters on this board, the idea that we have "Stockholm syndrome" or any other such affliction, well to that I just say... consider the source of that comment. Says all that needs to be said.

[Kind of Blue]

11. I haven't been here in a few years, JAG...

So Hello to you! I lurk this group and homepage to keep up with news. I know that this is long and I may be inartful in expressing what I've been feeling so far.

First though that I've stopped "talking" to vorciferous BS supporters elsewhere because they cannot face their firm and obvious philosophy that their economics is more important than the life of any PoC, that my cheap life is just an "issue" on the pile of the many issues facing the country. Maybe if they can face that their comfort comes first perhaps they'll understand the impasse, IMO.

Your OP prompted me to try to engage because it reminded me of two things. I know your questions are fascetious, and I've been cracking up over them, but I think we need to explore the psychological warfare we've been under for all of these centuries. We understand it but many liberals don't get that they've been programmed by the same war. It's like fish swimming in water and oblivious to it, while we're drowning and they wonder why.

The thread you speak of smacks of a contrived affliction called Drapetomania. It's the mental disorder of wanting to escape servitude that was attributed to slaves. So nowadays, something has got to be wrong with you if you don't trust BS. Someone elsewhere demanded to know, "What else do you want? He's done - fill in the blank and said - fill in the blank." Several have come right out and said that I AM crazy 'cause, the usual: I don't know what's good for me. Me, an educated woman who's had 6 driving-while-black incidents in life and a brother who was so brutalized several times by police, locked up by the system over and over again after each battle he won. It's a tragedy in my family that ended up a triumph, only because enough Maryland jurors became suddenly sensitized after the indescribable killing of Freddy Gray, rest his soul, Ferguson, and the almost countless murders of us since. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h3106t.html "Diseases and Peculiarities of the Negro Race."

Second, I think the poster of that OP is working under the programming of the 3rd, 10th and 11th Rules of Engagement by Sociologist Robin DiAngelo on white fragility.

-There must be trust between us. You must trust that I am in no way racist before you can give me feedback on my racism.

-You must focus on my intentions, which cancel out the impact of my behavior.

-To suggest my behavior had a racist impact is to have misunderstood me. You will need to allow me to explain until you can acknowledge that it was your misunderstanding. http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/white-fragility-and-the-rules-of-engagement-twlm/

But what I really think I'm hearing from the most ridiculous BS supporters is, "I'm afraid because you are threatening my life (pocketbook) and other good things if he's not elected president." And you know what? Once I finally accepted that my life and liberty are at the whim of this supremacist structure, nothing else matters. It's just as simple as Maslow's 2nd stage of needs: protection from elements, security, order, law, stability, and freedom from fear. Just tired of being Charlie Brown with Lucy and that damn football.

[Chitown Kev]

12. Heh.

The thread you speak of smacks of a contrived affliction called Drapetomania. It's the mental disorder of wanting to escape servitude that was attributed to slaves. So nowadays, something has got to be wrong with you if you don't trust BS. Someone elsewhere demanded to know, "What else do you want? He's done - fill in the blank and said - fill in the blank."

I've read a little bit about this "supposed" disease of the antebellum period and I thought that it was quite significant that WillyT brought up, of all issues, welfare...

(It always amazes me that some nice white progressives of the atheist/agnostic variety tend to conflate religious belief with racism and bigoted feelings...as if there was not and is not a whole lot of junk science done in the name of white supremacy and that some of those "nice white progressives" fall for that racist junk science just because someone called it "science"...and they wonder why I don't entirely trust what THEY call reason...and I say that as an agnostic, myself)

[Kind of Blue]

13. I guess with a history of nothing but psuedoscience

to justify the system, it's natural for WillyT and the like to pose such a question as he did, though there's so much evidence to the contrary. Their lack of self-reflection and empathy is deep. But I got to say this is only the beginning because we've been studying them and ourselves for years and it will take them, at least, this election cycle before they start studying themselves.

[Number23]

29. Girl, you are giving me the shivers

we've been studying them and ourselves for years and it will take them, at least, this election cycle before they start studying themselves.

'Tis NOTHING but the truth. We've had no choice but to understand them. It was a matter of our very survival.

And now that they are starting to understand that the death grip they've held on power and influence in this country for the last 400 years has been weakening over the last few decades and that people who never merited much of a passing thought before are now instrumental to things that they think are important, oh girl. The howls. The HOWLS. Of anger of fear and deep rage.

[Kind of Blue]

33. "The HOWLS. Of anger of fear and deep rage."

"...people who never merited much of a passing thought before are now instrumental to things that they think are important"

Yes, let's enjoy that for a minute while our frienemies regroup and hopefully and - not holding my breath - finally understand that we're in this mess together.

[bettyellen]

14. Wow- great post, and interesting links.

[Kind of Blue]

18. Thanks, bettyellen!

Trying to understand even if I disagree helps to maintain sanity or I'll be as mentally ill as they want me to be for not feeling the burn.

[Starry Messenger]

20. Marking to read later.

[Rose Siding]

23. Thanks for de-lurking to write this

I'm a white woman and your post is edifying, and gives me much to think about. It is invaluable to be able to examine my own subconscious attitudes about others.

I'll tell you something. Maybe the most rewarding element of working on Obama's primary in 08 was canvassing in neighborhoods where most of the people were AA. We were offering information about registration and polling place locations. Everyone we approached was happy to see us. People in cars stopped to talk with us. People asked us into their homes. Every single interaction was so guileless, like there was a sudden party to which we had been invited. I was happy as a puppy. I recognize that was a beautiful gift and can only aspire to have more interactions of that quality.

I think about that time a lot. All the racism I've witnessed since then angers and touches me in a way it might not have before. When issues of race or bigotry, or instances of racism arise, I am too often silent because I fear the shame of saying the wrong thing. Those rules of engagement you cited are so perfectly clear. Thank you.

[Kind of Blue]

24. Yeah, we know that the structure is based on fear...

to keep everyone in their place. I mean there's little reward and support for whites who confront racism so the system remains firmly rooted in place. Along with the fear of saying the wrong thing, I think the fear of ostracism is a huge deal for them, too, that might be even worse than the fear of death.

All these fears constantly working overtime. My favorite is "Think of what the Republicans will do," so be afraid. And the new one, "Think about what HRC's husband did," so be afraid. I can't operate from fear anymore and this is the first time in my life I've even dared to think of not voting.

For me, it's becoming clearer that it's not about the politicians. It's about us and the crazy BS supporters just brings that into sharp focus. Supremacy doesn't have to do anything because it's got frightened people like Stockholm Syndrome man by the millions doing the work for it, by dismissing our perspectives and using the possibility of mental illness as a cause for us interrupting his unchallenged and stress-free expectation to our vote.

[Number23]

30. I'm not stalking you, I swear! But this is just another fucking FABULOUS post

Supremacy doesn't have to do anything because it's got frightened people like Stockholm Syndrome man by the millions doing the work for it, by dismissing our perspectives and using the possibility of mental illness as a cause for us interrupting his unchallenged and stress-free expectation to our vote.

Girl, I need a cigarette after reading these posts.

[Kind of Blue]

38. "Girl, I need a cigarette after reading these posts"

[JustAnotherGen]

26. I want to thank you for this post

I went to your links and all your contributions are excellent. I actually learned something - many many thanks to you

[Kind of Blue]

31. Thank you for giving me the

gumption to speak again instead of bottling my feelings in! headbang:

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Thank you for getting

The tongue in cheek assery and allowing it to run its course. I'm glad you "wrote" up - it needed to be written.

[Number23]

28. Not only is this post mic drop worthy

But I cannot tell you how absolutely and utterly fabulous it is to see you here again. Good Lord, I am grinning like a fool. It is BLISSFUL to see you again.

But what I really think I'm hearing from the most ridiculous BS supporters is, "I'm afraid because you are threatening my life (pocketbook) and other good things if he's not elected president." And you know what? Once I finally accepted that my life and liberty are at the whim of this supremacist structure, nothing else matters.

And this is why you are a better woman than I will EVER be. Because I am just having a very hard time accepting that.

[Kind of Blue]

32. Number23! It's so good

wonderful to speak to you again in joy, after the misery of the last 5 years with my brother's case.

I'm so happy to Thank You openly for talking to me many times when I thought I wanted to pull my hair out from defeat after defeat. Thank You!

I remember during one stunning loss, the judge had the nerve to say to my SIL that she was an enabler for standing by my brother. I mean these people will have us thinking we're out of our minds when we buck the system. They think resistence is futile or stupid. But it was over in a unanimous verdict against the corrupt police and judges. It's also depressing because I know it was Gray's death that got people to Listen to my brother's case. I just know that Freddy's sacrifice was not in vain and the depth of my gratitude knows no bounds!

I think that you understood the system far better than I did so I'm not better. I just know better now. Though fully grasping the enormity of what the system thinks of me, I do not for one second believe it. Never have and never will. After the case, assessing how many times I've been pulled over for NOTHING and thinking it was just one bad cop over the past 40 years, the non-stop killings, and the crazed so-called allies drove it all home.


The game has changed thanks to BLM and it's worldwide, with people of the Diaspora from Latin America to Asia holding on to the concept in solidarity. Fear is dissipating and we're continuing the fight in another way.

[Number23]

35. I am DAMN GLAD that you, your sister and the rest of your beautiful family were "enablers"

How DARE anyone condemn you for actually standing by your brother! What the FUCK??! Was the judge expecting you guys to just abandon him, even though you knew with everything in you that he was being railroaded and was innocent??! What the hell is wrong with people??!

I am so glad that the nightmare is over. Girl, I bet your mother cannot be happier. I have thought about you all so much and when you sent me that note that he had been freed I practically leapt out of my seat.

This is why the old "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear" crap has no weight in many minority communities, just like the "it's not race, it's class" axiom. We know damn well our cousins and fathers and aunts could have five PhD's and a net worth of $50 million and it means NOTHING to the racist, the clueless and the bigoted. Look at all the posts in this forum about people using technology to racially profile and spy on their own neighbors for no other reason than they are black or brown. Even when we are IN OUR HOMES, we ain't home. Not when people are convinced that our innate inferiority automatically means that everything we've achieved or accomplished must have been done through ill gotten means and we need to be constantly "monitored" as a result. Even when in our own neighborhoods, in our own homes, we are suspicious and "intruders."

And you're right. BLM has brought so much attention to this one aspect of black life in America. And I am damn grateful for them. I bow my head in respect for Mr. Gay too. RIP brother and hopefully his horrible death will shine a light so that other brothers and sisters can get something resembling justice as well.

[Kind of Blue]

37. "Even when we are IN OUR HOMES, we ain't home."

"Not when people are convinced that our innate inferiority automatically means that everything we've achieved or accomplished must have been done through ill gotten means and we need to be constantly 'monitored' as a result. Even when in our own neighborhoods, in our own homes, we are suspicious and 'intruders'."

That's the reality and nature of the supremacy infection from the 1% to 99%. So WillyT's question in light of history and the current state of affairs is understandable. It's a continuum from drapetomania while enslaved, to being an enabler when fighting horrible injustice, to peers doubting our psychological state. The structure must be maintained and nothing satisfies it but complete compliance.

[Cha]

15. Not Black.. but, the stupid accusations and attacks make me furious. I woke up today

thinking about it.. Why doesn't he ask John Lewis, Julian Castro, Robby Mook, Gays for Hillary on FB and everywhere else if they have Stockholm Syndrome?

Yeah, why doesn't he address that to the Honorable John Lewis? I dare him.

Thank you, Gen.. for making this OP. It's heart sickening that Cali's got a hide.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. i like sanders but a lot of his supporters are INCREDIBLY immature.

the sort of young hipsters who know little to nothing about black history or gay history, but consider themselves very well informed.

[lib87]

17. Does That Section Have Active Admin?

Other forums with active admin usually nip unwanted trash in the bud after a wag of the finger. Why is that poster able to keep freely posting such hateful garbage on DU?

[Cha]

21. Excellent question, lib87 They're called Hosts, though. The Admins are the owners of DU..

and we ask them questions in ATA.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1259

[lib87]

22. Thanks Cha!

I didn't know if the board had absent hosts in that section, if they agreed with the content or if they saw no issue with it. Off to research.

[JustAnotherGen]

25. Kudos to NCTraveler

1Strong (accused of racism), randys1 (accused of hyperbole), lib87 -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=688729

You guys tried.

You tried.

Something I've learned in my personal life . . . Sometimes just saying xyz is wrong you foster better communication.

No dodging, deflecting, deferring - just a flat out admission.

[Warpy]

27. I have no idea why that silly Stockhom Syndrome accusation was made

I know I backed out of that particular thread fast.

After all, some people don't honestly know until they get into the booth and flip a coin how it's going to go, usually because there is more than one good candidate or because they're all awful in one way or another.

I see no Stockhom Syndrome in supporting any candidate, even the appalling GOP candidates.

What I do see are little cults of personality all over the political spectrum, people so wrapped up in their own choice that they can't imagine someone else has different criteria and will make a rational (or even not so rational) choice for another candidate. It's the same lack of personal boundaries I've observed in new religious converts and newly minted ex smokers. Best thing to do is quickly walk away and hope they get a grip before they alienate everyone around them.

That poster didn't say anything valid about anyone on this board.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

34. KnR! n/t