After 10 years, I've never seen DU as crazy as it is right now.

[kwassa]

I've seen some epic wars, but this seems the worst.

I find myself getting sick to my stomach after doing my daily read.

What is appalling is the complete lack of critical thinking skills applied to the arguments being made. This rush to crucify the Seattle protestors due to profiles of them created with little or no evidence shows astounding bias on the part of some Sanders supporters. I am losing massive respect for people I used to have respect for, in many cases. Marissa is tried and convicted based on little or nothing.

The larger problem is that no matter how clearly, simply, and openly the POC on this forum state their point of view, and how it is factually supported, their viewpoint is completely ignored by many members here on DU. Despite some Sanders supporters claim to be progressive, the viewpoints of POC are rejected because it doesn't fit with these Sanders supporters personal narrative, facts be damned. This is willful ignorance, and possibly something more.

I am good at communication. So are many here. This doesn't matter. There is no level of clarity that can break through this morass. The Sanders supporters have huge numbers on their side, which means that they will win jury alerts, which are really now nothing but popularity votes. The majority tramples the minority. Is this what DU is supposed to be about?

[Stargazer99]

1. Why didn't they demostrate at the Republican debate? It seems to me that conservative are more

racist than Bernie ever thought of being. It seems to me the BLM shot themselves in the foot,.

[kwassa]

3. Because they expect no support from Republicans, ever.

Democrats allegedly support the rights of people of color in this country. BLM is saying that Democrats aren't doing enough. And, they are right, really.

[AllyCat]

35. True that.

But protest just the same? Isn't that the point of protesting? Republicans get plenty of press so BLM's important message would get out to others.

[Rockyj]

163. So why don't they PROTEST our current President...

...who happens to be black?

[JustAnotherGen]

164. That would be a better question to ask in GD

Please do so.

[AllyCat]

167. Actually, he was in Selma

[Glassunion]

172. H.R. 347 - Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011

The act of protesting (actions in or near the restricted area that would "disrupt the orderly conduct of Government&quot in restricted areas that can include locations where individuals under Secret Service protection are temporarily located, and certain large special events like a presidential inauguration. They can also include large public events like the Super Bowl and the presidential nominating conventions. The Department of Homeland Security has significant discretion in designating what qualifies as one of these special events.

Sure you could protest the president, however you will most likely be arrested and charged.

Whoever -
(2)knowingly, and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions, engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to, any restricted building or grounds when, or so that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions;

or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

Subsection (b)

The punishment for a violation of subsection (a) is—
(1) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than 10 years, or both, if—

(A) the person, during and in relation to the offense, uses or carries a deadly or dangerous weapon or firearm; or
(B) the offense results in significant bodily injury as defined by section 2118(e)(3); and

(2) a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than one year, or both, in any other case.

So, you could get your ass tossed in jail for a year for protesting the President.

[brush]

42. Not sure she represented the BLM movement or herself. . .

seemed a little attention seeking going on. And what's with the white tears stuff?

That certainly isn't a BLM position.

[Daemonaquila]

5. Let's stop and think this through a minute.

1) Is the message of the BLM protestors valid? Yes. It clearly is. That was admitted by Bernie Sanders himself by releasing his racial justice platform. So, if the message is valid, why the beef with it?

2) Why aren't they targeting Clinton? Well, there's a small matter of the Secret Service. It makes that really difficult. Just because we like Bernie Sanders doesn't mean that he's being unfairly picked on because he's the Dem who's (a) making waves with people and in the media, (b) has a real chance to win this thing, and (c) is easier to reach.

3) Why aren't they targeting the GOP? Wow - with 17 clowns in the clown car, that's kind of a tall order. That's a lot of running around after major and minor candidates, splitting up their energy, with very little to show for it. The rethugs are going to find a way to get them arrested before they can do anything. They also are going to give BLM's message the finger, at best. Will they target GOP front-runners once the field is cut down more? I bet they will. But for now, that would be just spinning their wheels.

Let's stop judging BLM by what they say or do about "our guy." BLM is NOT A POLITICAL PARTY, nor are they affiliated with any party or candidate. Their interests lie in getting an audience for their message, and starting to sway platforms in a way that addresses racial justice. Rather than complaining, think of them challenging Bernie as a COMPLIMENT to Bernie. BLM thought that maybe there was some hope for this dude, and he has risen (so far, anyway) to the occasion. I'm sure there are going to be more challenges to more candidates in the future. I'm sure the GOP will fail utterly. If Hillary is the nominee, well, I'm not holding out a ton of hope, but at that point it will be critical for BLM to try to up her standards as well.

[jeff47]

8. On 2)

There are still places to protest. Blocking the road to her fundraiser (or even protesting along the side of the road) will not get nearly as much attention from the media as storming the stage.

But it's still a protest, and would significantly diffuse the "It's a Clinton plot" bullshit. There will still be some who cling to it because the protest was less disruptive, but having at least one protest against her would help. Heck, it might even get Clinton to release some sort of plan.

[Control-Z]

15. Here you go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141173974

Black Lives Matter protesters try to disrupt Hillary Clinton event

I hope this helps.

[Starry Messenger]

10. **Pls read before posting if you are new** This is the African-American group, a protected space.

Last edited Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

I've been given instructions to warn once, and then block, people who are just in here to defend a politician during this event.

First and last warning. Thank you.

[A Simple Game]

20. So to be fair, what are your instructions for people that are just here to bring down a politician?

[Starry Messenger]

22. Is a poster here to support African-Americans, allies, and issues?

Have they been in here before, posting in support of those issues? Or is that poster just in here to be cute? Because I've been told to use my judgement on that.

Are you asking for a friend?

[A Simple Game]

23. No, just for myself and all of DU in general.

I don't come here often, only when posts here are linked on the home page in latest or greatest and the subject seems interesting. In fact the post you are responding to is my first post in this group.

[Starry Messenger]

27. Subscribing to the group is a great way to get updates.

You can read all of the great information and threads in here by posters who are regulars. Get to know some folks. I usually recommend reading and getting a sense of a group before diving in.

[A Simple Game]

58. Thanks but no thanks.

If you had answered my question I may have been interested but you dodged it so I'll just say goodbye.

But thanks for the offer anyway.

[Number23]

92. "I don't come in here often. In fact, this is my first post ever and it's about something completely

unimportant."



I have just about had a gutfull of this.

[Starry Messenger]

97. Shall I?

I've still got some arrows in the quiver and I'm still tanked on caffeine.

[Number23]

98. Nah, hopefully he won't come back. I still err on the side of giving at least one warning

But that was something special right there.

[Starry Messenger]

107. Very special.

[JustAnotherGen]

156. Group Host Post - A Simple Game

For our records in the future.

A Simple Game (7,700 posts) Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:56 PM
20. So to be fair, what are your instructions for people that are just here to bring down a politician?


Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #22)
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:03 PM
A Simple Game (7,700 posts)
23. No, just for myself and all of DU in general.
I don't come here often, only when posts here are linked on the home page in latest or greatest and the subject seems interesting. In fact the post you are responding to is my first post in this group.



Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #27)
Tue Aug 11, 2015, 08:09 PM
A Simple Game (7,700 posts)
58. Thanks but no thanks.
If you had answered my question I may have been interested but you dodged it so I'll just say goodbye.
But thanks for the offer anyway.

[mopinko]

21. because the silence of friends is more deadly

than the screaming of enemies. that's why.

[Spazito]

2. I agree, I've been a member for 12+ years and have never seen it so bad here...

Primary fights here have always been a tough slog for sure but the abject vitriol being spewed is new and very, very ugly, imo.

The change, imo, began when Barack Obama became President, the vitriol directed toward him was shocking to me and the tone and tenor of DU has changed dramatically and not in a good way, imo.

[tishaLA]

18. I agree 100%...and it's been 12 years for me, too

I read the AA group, never venture to GDP, and still find it appalling

[Spazito]

30. My first stop after logging in is this group, I'm finding it an oasis from...

the chaos in the forums. I have learned so much, have a different perspective on so many things now.

[freshwest]

63. I've only been here about 5 years. It as an an oasis. I was a fool about 2009.

I grew up in the south and saw the seared consciences of whites, thought things changed through the 1970s. That the people had won and we would be better.

I saw the clear signs of racist propaganda grow with Rush on the airways 15 hours on week days and thrice as much on the week ends with reruns. I kept my eye or rather my ear close. There's a saying about watching how high the water rises in the swamp, because when it gets high enough, the alligators will come out to feed. So beware.

I cut off cable after being very interested in the presidential campaign in 2008. Very soon I knew Obama was THE ONE. He had the intellect, the honesty and the humanity to lead. I cut it off watching Palin holding her klan rallies in the south. I say that because the KKK was a real presence in my life. Not in my family or friends, but you knew they were there. Always, there would be signs at work. I recall a nice, mild mannered white man who wanted to become a manager. I said he would have to go to the KKK rallies. He made an ugly face, said he didn't want to go,

But he did, he faked it and got promoted. That was in the late 1970s. There was a lot of guys complaining about affirmative action, quotas, POC and women being hired and they said they weren't qualified. Mind you, these were guys with high school educations saying that people with college degrees but doing the same work were not qualified. They took pride in harrassing and getting black people fired.

When I saw the way Palin ran her rallies, which were racist, I felt a sense of horror. I didn't want to go back there, to the past but there it was. And HRC made a comment that Obama needed to pick a VP because of what happened to RFK. I did not want to go there!

Then came the threats and some deaths during the campaign in reaction to Obama winning the nomination. I was terrified, and I am not black. I kept saying to myself, 'They're gonna kill him.'

I was invited to a celebration, a public party, as people here to watch as the vote came in, they were sure Obama would win. I was not sure. I wish I had gone. I wouldn't even watch television except on the internet. Online friends urged me to hook the cable back on to see his speech and so late that night in Chicago there it was. I turned it on and off as I have seen so many good Democrats lose elections.

Then came the election and the world wide jubilation. But I thought that joy would heal the nation, but instead I sequestered myself in my apartment for three days and wept. I looked at all of those young people, so happy, and thought, 'They don't know the past, they are not burdened with these nightmares. I am an old lady and it's time I let the good things of the future rule.'

Things were good for a while, then it built up. And I feel for sure, and am willing to be told differently, that the number of deaths by police and others is greater than it was before. Not just because of communication and news, but really more. I may be all wrong. It seems to bre building to a peak, and its purpose is - to make black people rebel? Or to commit genocide in slow motion? Why?

To me, it seems organized, not random, not rogue, but well planned. If everyone takes the path of being armed like the OC they will still lose. They don't have the money to arm their communtiy like the dominant white community. Either way, an evil agenda is being carried out.

Any thoghts?

[Spazito]

69. The common factor among all the factions is fear and anger...

the reasons for that fear and anger are as diverse as the groups expressing them, imo. I don't think it is planned, it is too chaotic for that but there are those who will use others' anger and fear to further their own ends.

When people are afraid of losing what they have they lash out in more than one direction which is what we are seeing now and, all too often, minorities take the brunt of it, easy targets because they are minorities with fewer tools to fight back.

My daughter and I were talking about this in a micro sense, discussing the rise in road rage, aggressive acts and how quick people are to become angry over things that would have once been seen as minor.

Growing inequality is a major factor and for POC that inequality is racial injustice which continues relatively unhindered and threatens their very lives and doesn't even give them a step on that ladder toward the economic justice others see as primacy. For those who see the growing inequality in strictly economical terms, they, too feel their way of life threatened, their ability to get their fair slice of the pie and cannot accept there are other reasons for anger, other issues of equal import.

Add to all that a political system the public perceives as being one bought by the highest bidder and where they have little to no influence on the end result and we have happening what we see and feel today.

These are my thoughts, I don't have any answers just worries.

[kwassa]

90. Thank you for your perspective in this post!

I've lived my life in the northern states, so it is interesting to get a southern perspective on the turn of events in this country.

[George II]

149. I was disgusted with the way people on DU attacked Obama just weeks after his inauguration....

....complaining that he hadn't lived up to all his campaign promises. WEEKS after his inauguration!!

He was a phony, a sell-out, just another politician, etc., etc. etc.

I wish I knew how to drag up all those nasty posts about him and throw them back at those posters' faces. Hopefully now, more than six years later, all of us can recognize that he's done MUCH better job than we thought, particularly in face of the monumental obstacles that Congress has put in his way.

[Spazito]

150. I think if you were to go back and drag up those posts, you would find the names of...

those posting them very familiar, the same ones we now see throwing Black Lives Matter and the concerns of the black community under the bus to 'protect' their preferred candidate.

[HassleCat]

4. Sympathy, empathy, etc.

White people can't feel the injustice of being black in America. We can't, and nothing will ever change that. Of course, it's a different thing when someone says, "I don't understand your point of view, so it must not be legitimate." I hope nobody is coming to the AA group and alerting posts from that perspective. That would be shameful. Some Sanders supporters are riled up right now because BLM has gone after Sanders more than the other candidates, but that's no excuse to engage in sneaky stuff intended to suppress anyone's speech.

[1StrongBlackMan]

24. I honestly don't think it is ...

"I don't understand your point of view, so it must not be legitimate."

Though that has been said from time to time ... the more common frame is:

"I DO understand your point of view, BUT, me point of view is more important/better reasoned/is more in your interest

And when Black folks don't fall in line, that poster stomps off, upset, to the anonymity of Alertville and its nearby suburb, Jury Junction, where they can always win the day.

[BlueJazz]

6. I don't know, the "Chicken Wars" were pretty bad. As for the BLM, I DO want them to get..

...their message out. I'm more afraid the some of the group (as some parts of groups always do) hurt their cause by demanding to voice their concerns when they should be respectful.

[jeff47]

7. As has been said many times, protest is messy.

And it is not only messy for the people on the receiving end of that protest.

[mcar]

9. Me neither kwassa

I've been here since 2002. This place kept me sane after 9/11 and all the horrors of the Bush administration.

I have never seen it this bad. It seems like DU is coming apart at the seams.

[Spacedog1973]

11. BLM is the best thing that has happened to Bernie

O'Malley would love some of the attention these protests are giving Bernie's campaign.

1. Large crowds by themselves do not make a campaign. Especially when they are not covered by mainstream media. Ron Paul had large crowds during his run, but they weren't covered mainly and things fizzled out.

2. The protests bring media interest in an otherwise bland campaign to outsiders. Bernie, outside of the white progressive bubble, wasn't widely recognised. BLM by itself draws black interest in what they are doing and why they are giving a message and to whom. Their presence at Bernie's protests, draws black eyes to his campaign. Eyes that to be frank, would not otherwise have been drawn to him.

3. BLM isn't a political campaign. It isn't tied to either the Dems or Repubs. It isn't tied to any candidate. Its about black lives. The goal will be sought by any means necessary. Its not about Bernie, or the Dems, despite both being the best and most likely way of getting their goals met. By raising this as an issue, it makes it incumbent upon other candidates to include their issues in their manifestos and raise awareness in practical terms as an agenda for the next president to implement.

4. Bernie wasn't putting black lives front and centre in his campaign and white progressives were fine with it, at least, it took BLM to point out its absence. White progressives also sought to 'splain' that Bernie's historic civil rights actions were comprehensive enough not to require specific policies. Yet specific policies on climate change, pay equality, trade unions, health care etc are the very things that attracted them to Bernie: black people were required to be satisfied with generalities and assumptions based on a pattern of voting and historic actions.

5. BLM has achieved some of its goals in a very short period of time; Bernie has hired a racially aware staff member and has changed his manifesto to reflect their demands.

6. Bernie's campaign needs BLM, more than BLM needs Bernie. Bernie won't be nominated without black votes, without black eyes on his campaign and when those eyes are on him, he needs to be saying things that will resonate with that demographic. BLM has helped him do just that and increase his appeal to a wider audience that he didn't have the knowledge or ability and awareness to do by himself.

7. DU progressives and elsewhere have shown how supremacy is all pervasive and how misplaced paternalism can lead us down the wrong path. BLM isn't 'their issue'. Any progressive worthy of the name would refer to it as 'our issue' and understand why.

[Exultant Democracy]

12. I have a clear recollection of the last democratic primary here, it was far worse

The AfAm membership around here has never really recovered from the blatant racism that was being tossed around by the PUMA crew in 2008.

[MelissaB]

14. It was brutal and the reason I didn't venture into GDP

for a LONG time. I had never seen anything like it at the time, and now... here we go again

[DonCoquixote]

121. nods

and frankly, if Hillary really wanted to bury Sanders (as oppose to coast along) she would do one thing it would take guts to do: apologize for what many of her supporters, especially Mr Bill "we got mugged" Clinton did. Even better, have Bill do it. But then again, we all know Bill will not, as his whole mode is that it is better to be "strong and wrong" which, as much as he does not want to admit it, IS a fuel for many ills, including racism.

[LWolf]

13. I agree, with an addition.

I see what you are seeing. I'm also seeing a rush, and, on the parts of some, a gleeful rush, to crucify Sanders supporters.

I'm not liking either of those rushes. I'm thinking that this kind of division helps none of us, not today, and not in the long run.

I don't "ignore" people, but I've begun resorting to hiding threads in an effort not to get sucked into it.

So I'll ask you:

As a white Sanders supporter, what can I do to help? To help BLM, to help the division here on DU and anyplace else it shows up?

[JustAnotherGen]

46. As a Sanders supporter period

Don't jump into the fray. I'm a strong O'Malley supporter and I focus on him only.

Some of that 'rush' has been the bullying and alert stalking back here.

I've blocked more people since Sunday morning (all Sanders supporters) than all of my time as a host.

It appears at this point - that it's some badge of honor?

[LWolf]

71. I agree

with not jumping into the fray.

[MisterP]

16. maybe it's the apologists insisting that any demurral is cultish personalism that hates Black people

the image of a big division is an illusion that people have an interest in promoting

[captainarizona]

17. right on!

I got blocked from the bernie group just for saying he needs to appeal to minority voters!

[Cha]

141. That's a tough crowd.. they insist on holding President Obama's "feet to fire".. but nobody

can touch Bernie's feet.

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. I would suggest that what we are seeing is NOT about Marissa or BLM or even the ignorin of ...

PoC's point of view ... rather, this is all, and only, about Bernie ... and a segment of DU's personal crusade to defend him. (See the first response to the OP)

[Chemisse]

28. I think you are right.

And this is typical for DU during primaries. Many people still recall and refer to the bitter divide between Obama and Clinton supporters 8 years ago.

I am very sad this has caused racial tensions here.

[OneGrassRoot]

51. White Sanders supporter here...

and I agree with you about a certain segment. If my FB friends are any indication it is -- unfortunately -- a sizable segment. It's also very interesting to see how many white people had never even heard of Black Lives Matter until this weekend.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Never heard of BLM and never will mention BLM again ...

except to condemn them for raining on Bernie's parade.

[OneGrassRoot]

68. Sadly, probably true...unless they pay attention to me. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

73. Fat chance, that ...

from having read your posts ... I suspect, BLM meant/means something to you, beyond raining on the Bernie parade.

[OneGrassRoot]

142. Yes, Sir; it is absolutely a priority. Always has been. n/t

[BainsBane]

131. Bernie is the trigger

But we would be seeing none of this if it weren't who they are. It goes beyond him as a politician. Rather, criticism of Bernie is unacceptable because he is the political manifestation of themselves. I believe that is why we see so much confusion of criticism of the two. This thread is about DU, but someone came in to say it was about trashing a candidate. That sort of thing happens all the time. I believe it is because they see Sanders as the perfect political reflection of themselves. Criticism of him is toward them, and criticism toward them if of him; the two are inseparable.

They believe their mere self-designation as liberal or progressive should make them immune from even the suggestion that they are not entirely righteous. Black Lives Matters protests of Sanders are unacceptable because it interferes with what they see as their more important agenda, something they are certain should extend to everyone. They insist it should be enough for everyone, even as target as the enemy those who they see as interfering in anyway with their interests.

We have seen expressed over this weekend ideas about race--insults, dismissal, stereotype, and excuses--that have exposed who people are. They are not that way simply because of Bernie. Rather, criticism of him is merely the stressor that has unleashed their self-expression.

[1StrongBlackMan]

147. I can't argue that. n/t

[Spazito]

151. Wow, excellent point...

I completely agree.

[Starry Messenger]

152. Perfect.

[jonno99]

155. I agree, but I would point out that what you said might apply to groups other than Bernie's -

Try substituting (or switiching) 'Bernie' with BLM - or HRC, and you might find that it applies to that group too.

IOW, IMO - what you are describing is common to the human race...

[Cha]

143. Oh Definitely. And, by "defending" him in such a manner.. it's having the opposite affect.

They've insisted for 7 years that they must hold President Obama's "feet to the fire.." but, nobody better not touch Bernie's feet.

[mentalslavery]

25. I think blm and the progressive wing of the left will have a significant split

after this fight...and that is unfortunate. I think the 08 race was as contentious and that has created a lasting split also. Shame on us....gotta figure out how to work together against powerful forces

[Spitfire of ATJ]

26. What "facts" be damned?

The ones where Bernie was fighting for civil rights before it was cool?

How about the ones where the BLM movement apologized for what a few overzealous activists did?

[Starry Messenger]

31. Black Lives Matter has disavowed that apology, it wasn't from them.

https://twitter.com/Blklivesmatter/status/630627381682786304

And this forum is declaring a moratorium on new group posters who feel the need to tell the AA forum on how to do Civil Rights. First and last warning. Thank you.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

39. I thought everything was cleared up.

[Starry Messenger]

60. It is now.

[kwassa]

32. BLM didn't apologize, that is a myth.

See the interview.

Bernie marching 50+ years ago is a long time ago. His recent approach to racial issues show he is very out of touch. 50 years is a long time.

I don't think he is racist, but I think he is wrong in thinking that economic injustice is the source of all other injustices.

[SunSeeker]

44. Actually, he was fighting for civil rights exactly when it was cool: the 1960s.

If you were in college in the 1960s and not fighting for civil rights and opposing the Vietnam War, you were not cool.

And this is the AA Group. There is more than enough room in GP, GDP and LBN for you to spill your vitriol regarding the "overzealous" BLM protestors. You don't need to bring it to this safe haven.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

57. This landed on the "Trending Now" section of the home page....

I didn't seek it out.

[Historic NY]

29. I'm with you....

there seems to be no background behind statements bantered about. This wouldn't be happening 10 yrs ago or less here.

[Warpy]

33. It was a lot crazier in 2008

but it was a slightly different flavor of crazy, especially late in the year after the crash and before the election.

Not only had the Hillary War of 2008 been fought in GD-P, the stock market had tanked and everybody lucky enough to have a career instead of a job saw his 401K turn into a 201K. Other people with either career or job lost their livelihoods as panicky people cut their own throats by dumping employees. We were in the middle of two huge and unwinnable wars and people were shrieking about what a terrible mistake it would be to run either Clinton or Obama as their gender and race made both unelectable.

People often complained that moderators were arbitrary but it was better than having bullies alert on dozens of posts a day, hoping to get lucky with juries. That has to be changed, especially in protected forums. Has. to. be.

And no, it's not what DU is supposed to be about and it won't get sane again for another 14 months.

Shitcanning GD-P is a good first step to eliminating the worst of it. Eliminating individual candidate forums will also help. GD itself is reasonably civil without them.

Or you can hide out in Cooking & Baking for the duration.

[kwassa]

43. Cooking and Baking is sounding good to me.

I had some great Indian food today.

[Warpy]

54. I'm jealous

The local health food place was out of their chicken tandoori/cardamom rice/cucumber raita dinners yesterday and I'm Jonesing for it. Funny how food cravings work.

C&B isn't a bad group, cooking controversies tend to be fairly mild. Praising Sandra Lee might get you laughed at, though.

[Marty McGraw]

34. "Is this what DU is supposed to be about"

No, but neither is it suppose to be about taking advantage of a extremely needed momentous time in history to be diverted from our support of such a time proved wonderful Speaker & Advocate for the General Populace. There are very powerfully vested entities that back any little (or big) cracks that would wear the strongest individual down over a short period of time.

We can't fall for the divisive ploys right now. There are other venues for resolving this critical issue and I don't believe it has anything to do with disrupting this start to something miraculous

[kwassa]

41. If Bernie is a real candidate, he can deal with this.

If he isn't, he doesn't deserve the office.

[Gormy Cuss]

70. ^^This^^

Sanders has been in politics for eons, in social justice efforts even longer. If he can't handle protesters, how the hell will he handle a crisis in the White House? Some of his "supporters" don't seem to know him very well.

[JustAnotherGen]

52. The thing is - not everyone has that glowing feeling about Sanders

Or pick a candidate - any candidate.

I just flipped over from Trump Word Salad on MSNBC. He's just awful.

He is a product of the TEA Party - they done birthed him. That would be miraculous - if he were to win.

But understand - its nothing against Sanders - he's not awful.

I just don't think he is a miracle. I shouldn't get alerted and hid in a group I host for writing that. And that's what is happening back here.

And BLM is two years old . . . It was not formed to stop Sanders. Some of the posts I've read come across from that place. It's a slf centered place. So we retreat here as we did during the Trayvon Martin trial . . . Because there is casual hostility towards black folks who have opinions at DU.

At this point - I'm done discussing. There will be no discussions with Sanders supporters at DU. I can do that with the couple across the street who are enthusiastic positive Sanders supporters.

[Skittles]

78. I hear you

I am not 100% on board with any candidate and THAT is how it should be - swooners are sickening

[CentralMass]

36. BLM, the group, tactics suck. if you want to hold your breath and turn blue

because people aren't rallying behind crap like what was pulled in Seattle and those that are defending it, go ahead.

[kwassa]

40. Many people are rallying. Sorry that you are not among them.

[CentralMass]

45. They cause or the group ?

[kwassa]

47. Both.

[lib87]

48. Both

[Chemisse]

37. I was absolutely furious with the protesters.

What I saw was a small group of people bullying an elderly man to get hold of the microphone. I really couldn't get beyond thinking they were utter assholes.

Then I read the article in which Marissa Johnson explains why she did it. She was defiant and unapologetic.

And I understood.

It reminded me of when I was a young girl of 12ish and I heard on the news about women burning bras. Everybody around me was horrified and disgusted. I was too. But it spurred changes. Big, important changes that women benefit from today. Sometimes the discomfort of extremism is needed to make social progress.

I still disagree with what they did, but I will no longer vilify them.

[kwassa]

38. Thank you. That is all I ask.

[Lilith Rising]

160. Actually the Bra Burning thing is a myth -

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/burnbra.asp

[Chemisse]

170. Amazing!

I had no idea. And yet, because of that tidbit entering the news, the effect was the same as if they DID burn the bras.

[YOHABLO]

49. BLM tactics are derisive, if we want solutions we have to stand together. There's a time for

everyone to get their message across. But don't do it to the man who asking you to listen now. He will not let you down.
If you feel you're not hearing from Bernie what you want to hear, then either communicate with him personally, or run your own candidate.

[JustAnotherGen]

56. Except we don't all agree on the solutions

So since it is primary season - we don't have to ALL stand together.

We are allowed to disagree.

[Spacedog1973]

64. I think to say

To run your own candidate is a little bit dismissive given how difficult it is to that as you know full well. Thats simply not an option.

So that leaves

A.Communicate with him personally.

For a man that 'matched with MLK' and stood up for civial rights 'all his life', one would assume at least one persin has communicated with him personally regarding the urgency of black lives. The issue hasnt really changed during this period.

Despite these decades of communication, and matching with civil righta leaders and Bernies natural affinity with black people, it took some black protestors to drive home what decades of 'doing more than what many of us could hope to do before we were born' before anything crystalised for the sanders campaign.

Communicating personally with Bernie doesnt work. At least 5 decades in 'research' and he initially omitts any policies from his presidential manifesto says he needed help.

[Starry Messenger]

50. CentralMass and Marty have been blocked from this group.

If the main hosts feel this has been in error, they will be in contact with you. Thank you. Edit to add: YoHablo also.

[JustAnotherGen]

61. You have opened the gates of hell!

And I co-sign this post.

[Starry Messenger]

62. I like keeping things tidy. :)

[freshwest]

171. Thank you! The AA was once my place to come for peace. I'm glad the hosts are giving relief.

Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2015, 03:56 PM - Edit history (1)

The forums remind me of Stinkadena:



Toxic fumes ate the paint off houses and cars. You had to roll up your car windows to drive on the freeway through there. It made you gag, you couldn't drive fast enough to escape the stench.

Because it oozed in like it does into groups. The motto, 'DU is supposed to be fun — don't make it suck' isn't working now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[Skittles]

53. there is lack of critical thinking skills apparent

but not where you think

[Bobbie Jo]

75. Ok, I'll bite

Where to you see the lack of "critical thinking skills."

Say what you mean, already.

[Skittles]

77. people who are unable to see how badly a tactic is backfiring

people who swoon for ANY politician- think they can do NO wrong - I see it all over the board here, and it is SICKENING

people who fail to understand *NO ONE LIKES TO BE STEREOTYPED*

[Bobbie Jo]

79. Wait

WHO are you YELLING AT HERE?

And who is doing the STEREOTYPING?

[Skittles]

80. if you don't know, you have not been paying attention

[Bobbie Jo]

82. Oh I've been paying close attention

I guess I'm wondering why you would come in here to scream at people, you have the entirety of the board to do that.

[sheshe2]

95. ^^^This!^^^

[betsuni]

85. I think it's the word "white" when put before the word "ass" followed by "crowd."

No ass likes to be stereotyped. Mentioning the color of crowd-asses is divisive and vulgar. One should not see color when it comes to asses. Asses are color blind. Do we not all fart? This tactic is backfiring. And demanding that Sanders "bow down"? What, so you can take a look at his ass? You people are obsessed with asses. Threatening to kick asses is fine as long as one does not stereotype the ass. The ass will feel sad and weep white ass tears. Also, everyone here wants to make out with Hillary Clinton and probably longs to touch her white you-know-what. Perverts.

[Bobbie Jo]

96. ROFLMAO

I hope laughing one's ass off is still okay.

Cause damn...

[ismnotwasm]

144. Oh--lord

[Cha]

169. Hilarious, betsuni! Yes, "Threatening to kick asses is fine as long as one does not stereotype the

ass."!

You got it!

[KittyWampus]

83. "people who are unable to see how badly a tactic is backfiring"

you must mean the Bernie Sanders supporters who have had TWO melt downs now.

It is really ridiculous.

Like Sanders craps rainbows or something.

[kwassa]

86. LOL!

It is really ridiculous.

Like Sanders craps rainbows or something.

[Number23]

89. They've had WAY more than two meltdowns. WAY more

[Tarheel_Dem]

116. "Rainbows" & Lollipops. Let's not forget the Lollipops!

[joshcryer]

138. What backfired?

How?

[BumRushDaShow]

59. Hear hear!

They have huge numbers because they have chased or juried everyone else away... And the few still around do more lurking than posting.

[Blue_Tires]

65. +1

I thought things would never get worse than they did during Trayvon Martin...But I was way wrong...

[Number23]

67. This is why so many of us don't even bother anymore. DU has never been this bad

Everything is completely upside down. Maniacs on the juries and the admins know there is a big problem but aren't doing anything.

There is no level of clarity that can break through this morass.

Nope. Which is why many of us aren't even bothering anymore. Fuck it. The AA hosts have blocked more people in the last week than in the previous almost FOUR YEARS on DU3.

I sleep well knowing that these people are on the wrong side of history YET AGAIN. The same way they were when they screamed that every step that Obama took was too little, too late, too small, too big, too whatever. It's no surprise to me that many of the people that have been the most hostile to #BLM are the same folks that accused this President (and even his wife and of course his "community" wink* wink*) of everything they could think of, even before he was officially sworn into office. And I'm sure you remember that mess just as well as I do and everyone else that was here.

They can have their temper tantrums and their 200+ recs of inane stupidity. The whole damn Internet is calling these people out for exactly what they are and it is not pretty. And I truly expect for Sanders to call them out soon as well.

[kwassa]

88. "I sleep well knowing that these people are on the wrong side of history YET AGAIN."

Exactly.

[Cha]

145. Yeah, kind of hard not to notice that most of these same people insisted on holding Pres Obama's

"feet to fire" for 7 years now.. but, don't try to touch Bernie's feet even peripherally.

Or you'll get shouted down, alerted on, and juried out.. like Bravenak.

[scarletwoman]

72. Thank you so much for your post!

It just so happened that I stayed offline all day on Saturday. I wasn't feeling well, and all I wanted to do was stay in bed and read a book. I don't have a TV, and I left the radio off (which is permanently tuned to MN Public Radio), and so I had no idea what was happening out in the world - no idea about Sanders in Seattle, no idea about the BLM protest - just peace and quiet and listening to the birds, and to the breeze blowing through the tree branches outside my window.

I didn't log in to DU until late Sunday afternoon - and the first thread I saw was about Bravenak getting 4 hides in quick succession and being put on a timeout. Oh no! So I looked at her hidden posts - ridiculous, egregious hides! - and then started to work my through the threads they had been posted in. OMG! So much filthy nasty stuff in post after post! It was absolutely nauseating! I couldn't make my through it all. Like you, it made me sick to my stomach. I had to just log off again so I could calm down.

Yesterday was even worse. I came home from work late, logged in, and there on the Home Page "Greatest" list was a post with well over 200 recs, promoting one of the most outlandish, disgusting, absurd conspiracy theories about the Seattle BLM protestors, with DUer afte DUer breathlessly posting their full support for that bullshit. It was more than sickening, it was frightening - all these DUers I've been reading for years and years (I've been here since 2001) falling all over themselves to endorse that utterly reeking pile of paranoid garbage.

I'm really kind of heartbroken - there are so many DUers whom I've come to be familiar with over the years, DUers who I thought were smart and funny, and above all rational, whose opinions and analysis of various issues I'd come to respect, who appear now to have gone completely around the bend.

Because a young black woman challenged them to take a look at their own latent racism, at their own unconscious acceptance of white supremacy.

As far as I'm concerned, the reactions I've been reading here on DU have proven her absolutely right.

I just want to say to all these people who have been freaking out about the Seattle BLM protestors, when someone pushes your button like that, it's time to take a good hard look at why you have that button in the first place.

[kwassa]

84. Thank you so much for this post.

It really is shocking how many people I have lost respect for in this process.

This is exactly how I feel.

I'm really kind of heartbroken - there are so many DUers whom I've come to be familiar with over the years, DUers who I thought were smart and funny, and above all rational, whose opinions and analysis of various issues I'd come to respect, who appear now to have gone completely around the bend.

Because a young black woman challenged them to take a look at their own latent racism, at their own unconscious acceptance of white supremacy.

As far as I'm concerned, the reactions I've been reading here on DU have proven her absolutely right.

[Number23]

91. "the reactions I've been reading here on DU have proven her absolutely right."

And I can't seem to understand how the people doing this CAN'T UNDERSTAND THIS POINT. It seems so bleeding obvious to me.

[scarletwoman]

100. Yes, it's bleeding obvious, but the resistance and defensiveness just overpowers all sense and

self-reflection.

I don't understand it, either. I've always thought that part of being "liberal" was having a willingness to consider other points of view, a willingness to learn how to see things from other perspectives, and a willingness to learn.

[Number23]

103. But none of this is new. Malcolm, Martin, Marcus and everybody else I can think of railed

about white liberals almost as much as they did white conservatives. None of this is new. Nothing has changed.

[scarletwoman]

108. Which just goes to show the longstanding failure of white liberalism.

We swim in the sea of white privilege, all the while denying that we do so.

I have no answers, I have no idea how to shake anyone else out of their bubble. They cling to it like their whole lives, their whole identity depends on it. And they absolutely deny that the bubble exists.

[Tarheel_Dem]

119. But you're assuming they're "liberal". I make no such assumption.

[betsuni]

110. I came to the story late too and couldn't understand why all the freaking out.

A politician had some protesters at an event. Big deal. Yet it became a huge deal. That "White Fragility" article come to life!

I haven't even read all the thread where Bravenak got the hides, but I've seen enough to also lose respect for some people. And once I've lost respect for someone I don't want to have anything to do with them, even if they're posting amusing kittycat pictures or discussing chili recipes. I can't, I won't.

[Bobbie Jo]

74. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief

I've been around for almost 10 years now, and I've never seen it like this, even during the most heated primaries.

This is just different.

I never thought I would see DU'ers just turn their back on this community in the most vile, disgusting and downright hateful manner such as I've seen over the course of the last month.

I'm truly at a loss here...

[betsuni]

76. I get sick to my stomach too, even without going near GD-P.

Lack of critical thinking and so emotional, aggressive. It's true, no matter how clearly and often things are explained it bounces right off and you'll get an insult in return.

[kwassa]

87. Absolutely.

[roody]

81. "Trash this thread" is my new friend.

[BKH70041]

93. What you say doesn't matter.

You're being honest. You're laying it out straight. You're pulling no punches. You're coming through loud and clear.

Doesn't matter.

It doesn't fit what the Sanders supporters want to believe, therefore it cannot be accepted by them. They aren't saying it directly, but their actions point the way. They're telling you they know better what you need than you do. Vote against Sanders and you're voting against your own best interests. Really, they believe that. Just ask them.

And yes, they'll win jury alerts. When the nominee is chosen, and that someone won't be Sanders, expect revenge for having not seen things the way in which you were expected.

[kwassa]

101. "They're telling you they know better what you need than you do"

Exactly.

[geek tragedy]

94. I think what happened in Arizona was healthy.

It was a chance, missed by both Sanders and O'Malley, for genuine dialogue.

And the freak out by Sanders supporters was appalling. I said so at the time.

The rest of this post is difficult to write because the black community here has been subject to so much abuse and harassment and explicit racism.


What happened in Seattle, quite honestly, was disturbing. A 73 year old Jewish man, whose ancestors were all murdered in the Holocaust, was physically accosted on stage by two people 50 years younger who we're shouting angrily with unfriendly gestures.

How would we feel if that were John Lewis or Michelle Obama being angrily and aggressively confronted by a couple of white kids getting in their face? And those white kids started a hash tag of #bowdownmichelle?

There's been a lot of gross insensitivity and offensive conduct on the part of Sanders supporters. A lot. More racism than I would have imagined possible.

But what happened on that stage when Senator Sanders began speaking was ugly. UGLY. And complaints about a lack of respect towards BLM are going to ring hollow if people insist that what went on there was peachy keen and that Bernie Sanders was the bad guy there.

Keep in mind the reason you don't see that happening with Hillary (or Barack or Michelle) is that the Secret Service would have tackled them before they got within 15 feet of her.

It's real easy to be respectful and calm in a private room flanked by unsmiling men with guns.

That's the opinion of this extremely privileged white guy, for whatever that is worth. I recognize that it's not entitled to any respect, but I offer it in respect, directly, rather than acting as if y'all are not worthy of hearing candid opinions you might not agree with.

[kwassa]

99. I don't understand this line of reasoning.

A 73 year old Jewish man, whose ancestors were all murdered in the Holocaust, was physically accosted on stage by two people 50 years younger who we're shouting angrily with unfriendly gestures.

is Bernie exempt from criticism because of the Holocaust?

or because he is old?

I know Holocaust survivors, and I can't imagine any of them saying this, though it is a repeated meme here on DU.

Please explain to me how this is relevant in any way to anything to do with BLM.

[geek tragedy]

106. You don't see an issue with young people acting physically aggressive towards

old people?

It's physical intimidation.

Easy to pick on an old, physically weak man. Would they have done that to Chris Christie? Or someone with bodyguards?

Bernie certainly can be criticized. I am trying to remind folks that he's a human being with fragilities and vulnerabilities.

That Marissa Janae character was acting as a representative of BLM, so her conduct and commentary is a reflection. BLM is the proud owner of #bowdownbernie and the decision to physically bully an old man.

[kwassa]

111. If Bernie is that old and frail, he is not a good candidate to be President, is he?

and you completely ignored the Holocaust trope, didn't you?

Please address that.

[geek tragedy]

113. I addressed it in my reply to Number23. nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

122. It's a new meme. It's the third time I've seen it in print here. One minute he's a liberal lion,

the next minute he's a doddering old man, according to his supporters. Someone needs to bone up on consistency. I agree, if he's that delicate, perhaps Leader of the Free World might be too much of a heavy lift? If a non BS supporter introduced the topic of his age, it would be hidden for sure. Go figure.

[kwassa]

124. I don't get the doddering, or Holocaust arguments.

This will win anyone the Presidency?

[Tarheel_Dem]

127. I don't know about Holocaust, but doddering sure didn't win in '08. John McCain can attest. It's..

not an argument I'd want to become part of the national conversation, because it may come back to haunt.

[noiretextatique]

166. What was the criticism?

That he be "held accountable" for the racism of his supporters? I cannot support empty rhetoric, totally divorced from reality.

[Number23]

105. You are always welcome here, GT. At least by me. But so much of your post is baffling and

contradictory.

A 73 year old Jewish man, whose ancestors were all murdered in the Holocaust, was physically accosted on stage by two people 50 years younger who we're shouting angrily with unfriendly gestures.

In what way is the Holocaust relevant to Black Lives Matter or what happened on that stage? Did the #BLM reps make comments that said something different than this? I genuinely don't understand this point. America had its own Holocaust as well starting with the enslavement and murder of millions of African slaves, if you remember. Is this an argument you want to make in this forum?

Or is the problem that Sanders is too old or frail to be heckled? Do you think that this is an image that will hurt or help him?

[geek tragedy]

109. The point is that there's not a lot of empathy going either way these days.

Bernie Sanders seems like just another powerful white guy, but two generations ago his entire bloodline was exterminated by a hostile, racist culture. That kind of vulnerability lingers in the survivors.

[Number23]

112. I think the only "power" that #BLM ascribes to Bernie Sanders is the power of his voice

That he has access to microphones that they don't. I don't see anyone picking on him because he's a "powerful" white guy. In all honesty, he doesn't seem to have much "power" at all to me, despite having been in Congress since the dawn of time.

People are demanding that he address their issues because he has access to microphones and means that they don't.

[geek tragedy]

115. The ironic thing is that they're going after him

because he's the only one who'll let them get close. The only audience they got with Hillary was behind closed doors under armed guard.

[Number23]

118. They are going after EVERYONE. Why are Sanders' supporters so determined to overlook this?

And this isn't about Hillary but since you brought her up, everything I've read is that she is having meetings with these folks right and left. And they've already protested her and President Obama and I have no doubt will again.

She is showing EVERYONE how it's done, at least on this issue. And she'll reap the rewards. You can count on that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

125. Damn geek, this is unlike you. You usually keep it real. Diss the candidate who has actually sat..

down with BLM, on more than one occasion, behind closed doors or not, and actually listened to them? Why does it matter where the meeting took place? And if you want to get even more real, why did it take BLM getting in BS' face, to get him to do some diversity hiring? It's 2015 ferchrissakes.

You were plenty free to answer the o.p. without ever mentioning HRC.

[geek tragedy]

128. Marissa Janae begs to differ with you.

The open windows were no surprise. It has to be said that Bernie Sanders is an easy target as far as disrupting presidential campaigns goes. BLM seems to be exploiting his relative lack of security detail, his relatively pacifist fans, and the high level of attention he commands in order to amplify their voices. When Johnson was asked on This Week in Blackness why she wasn't disrupting Hillary Clinton's campaign, Johnson mentioned Clinton's Secret Service detail and said it's "about accessibility." She wasn't asked why she hasn't tried to disrupt Republican campaigns, though she did say several times that her overall goal was to "dismantle" the whole system.

http://www.thestranger.com/features/feature/2015/08/12/22683121/what-bernie-sanders-said-and-didnt-say-after-the-black-lives-matter-interruption

[Tarheel_Dem]

130. What does that have to do with my question? She met with them, and I don't want to clog up....

this group with a back & forth about the candidates. That's not the purpose of this group. "Armed Guards"? If she still has secret service protection, I'm not sure why you would want to make that sound sketchy. As you know, she's a former 1st Lady, former Senator, and former Sec of State. I wouldn't even care if it was private security. She's a high profile figure.

[geek tragedy]

133. Point is that kind of stunt in Seattle is only something they'd get away with when targeting

an older person of a gentle disposition who's without security. Do they have the guts to try to take over Chris Christie's stage, or do they only pick on people they know won't fight back?

Since this has gone far astray and I need to pack for a trip, I conclude this as bluntly and directly as possible.

When white people see an old man to whom they're sympathetic getting physically accosted and harassed by two people 5 decades younger, their first instinct is to call the cops.

That is probably not the reaction BLM is aiming for.

[Tarheel_Dem]

135. Why do you guys keep insisting that they take over Republican events? Republicans have never....

been allies, and not many blacks have been Republicans. And, by the way, you're doing him no favors by continuing to portray him as a feeble old man. Just FYI.

[Cha]

146. Just wow.. BS isn't running for Senator of Vermont anymore.. IF he wants to be

Last edited Wed Aug 12, 2015, 08:47 AM - Edit history (1)

POTUS.. he must project a strong image that can handle anything.

Think multi-tasking like President Obama does.. who Bernie wanted "primary in 2012.. because millions were disappointed .. bc social security.. blah blah blah".

That was blatantly untrue.. Millions actually appreciate our President and he went on to Win again.

Sorry, but that pisses me off.

We're talking #BlackLivesMatter. End of story. Bernie can either handle it or he can't.

I know they're making a difference.. as evidence by the changes BS has made in his campaign.. and, no one gets to set conditions on how they Protest, either.

Tarheel

[Tarheel_Dem]

168. By "changes", I'm assuming you mean the hiring of a black woman? Great! A "Democrat"....

knowing the value of diversity hiring in 2015. BRAVO!!! Let me give him one of these ---->>>>

I'm sorry, but he gets no credit from me for being dragged into the 21st century, but I get your point.

[kwassa]

114. None of this is about Bernie's power as a white person.

It is about his understanding, as an individual, the issues that BLM is presenting.

As terrible as it was, nothing his ancestors went through has any relevance to what BLM is talking about.

[geek tragedy]

117. When BLM says "Bow down, Bernie"

what do they mean by that?

[kwassa]

120. I have no idea. But, how is this a Holocaust reference?

This is a massive logic leap that is way beyond jumping the shark.

[Starry Messenger]

129. It's from hip-hop lyrics.

I'm older than dirt, and know nothing about music, but I saw someone say that on twitter today and googled.

I seriously doubt two 24 year old Black women, and the other organizers, meant it to attack him for being Jewish. Or old, or whatever.

There's also a Beyonce' song called "Bow Down." Both young ladies have Beyonce' images in their social media, so i'm going to throw this out there: it's probably related to that. http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/beyonceknowles/bowdownibeenon.html

Since decoding youth culture is out of my wheelhouse, I have no means of interpreting. I only offer in the spirit of information.

[geek tragedy]

132. Not exactly benign intent behind either set of lyrics.

In any event, it failed to catch on for whatever reason.

[Starry Messenger]

134. If you listen to Marissa's interview on TWiB, you'll hear that she was in no way prepared for the

heavy amount of virulent racism and scrutiny of their motives, for secret agendas, the action would bring down on them. I seriously doubt they created the hashtag with the intent that people would be doing numerology on it to try to figure out what it meant.

[geek tragedy]

136. Given her eagerness to toss around the "white supremacist" slur I'm not sure.

She practically proclaimed Bernie Sanders to be the Grand Dragon of the White Liberal chapter of the KKK. The hashtag speaks for itself, a Nietzschean attempt at ego gratification via assertion of power.

She's got issues. If I'm a cop union chief, I play the video of her and compatriot's misfeasance in Seattle whenever possible.

I really do need to get packing, have a morning train.

Peace.

[Starry Messenger]

137. Have a good trip.

I lived and worked in the Oakland and Richmond area of CA for nearly 20 years, and I'm used to hearing and participating in these conversations on whiteness in activist spaces with Black activists. It's a real critique, but evidently not one that many DUers are used to hearing. If you aren't familiar with the use of terms like white supremacy to describe white power structures outside of the ultra-right white activist/racist structure, I guess it could be confusing.

I hope you will listen to Marissa's interview, if you haven't, and have been reading interpretations of it here by others. I know you are an it-getter on other social justice topics, so hopefully you will stay open to conversations on this. I think Black Lives Matter is going to remain a topic of discussion in this election, and honestly, politicians aside, the way that DU has discussed this has not been cool, as you noted.

[joshcryer]

139. I think they were equivalent protests.

What Marissa did was a lot more visceral but they were both highly disruptive, rude, off putting. Marissa's actions invoked immediate anger in me but I was able to look beyond it.

I don't see how that justifies DU's insanity. I think both times it was bad and last time I didn't even bother to defend BLM because people were all up in arms. I blamed the moderator at Netroots more than anything.

[sheshe2]

102. Thanks kwassa.

Solid Op.

I have been sticking to the groups. The members are the ones I have the utmost respect for.

[Thinkingabout]

104. I think a war is being waged against this group and I don't think it is going to turn out well for

those waging the war. I would hope some would have more respect for themselves than some of the posts. Hopefully this will stop soon.

[Person 2713]

123. Yeah what is with all the conspiracy theories? Hillary operatives, paid RW trolls , also comments

that read like Mao qoutes or something. Really whack and yes some of it is really sickening besides being crazy

[applegrove]

126. No doubt some trolls in the mix making sure democrats

fight amongst themselves on the DU and elsewhere.

[ismnotwasm]

140. 11 years

And I agree, this is a new kind of crazy. I have always read more than I posted, but now, I can barely stand to do that.

[Cha]

148. kwassa, thank you so much for your OP.. I've just read the thread..

many kindred spirits on here. It feels comfortable.

You've nailed the analysis perfectly.. and it's been going on since people were questioning Bernie's launch. African American posters were asking what would he do about the racial injustice going on in America and they were accused and attacked for "calling Bernie a racist!".. which was far from the truth but then you know that.

Yes, "popularity votes" .. DU ain't what it use to be. I'm in the minority but I wouldn't have it any other way. I like my fellow travelers a lot. We'll keep plugging away until the primary is over.. and then!?.. Well we'll see won't we.

In the mean time .. thank goodness for the AA Community and other protected Groups.. where attempts are made to intrude and be rude.. but, we really can't expect anything better from the disruptors. They think they're helping. rofl

#BlackLivesMatter However they want to protest .. I'm good.

Bains Bane

[betsuni]

158. Thanks for posting the video -- I finally listened to it.

She's great! I love that she said Seattle was occupied Duwamish land.

Chief Seattle's speech about land treaty in 1854:

"Every part of this country is sacred to my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove has been hallowed by some fond memory or some sad experience of my tribe. Even the rocks which seem to lie dumb as they swelter in the sun along the silent seashore in solemn grandeur thrill with memories of past events connected with the lives of my people. And when the last red man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe among the white men shall have become a myth, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages go silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled and still love this beautiful land. The white man will never be alone. Let him be just and deal kindly with my people for the dead are not powerless. Dead -- did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds."

From "A Time of Gathering, Native Heritage in Washington State."

[Cha]

159. You're welcome, betsuni.. I'm glad you got to hear it. I'm so grateful I did.

I got a whole different perspective than the spin on DU which I wasn't buying anyway.

Mahalo for Chief Seattle's speech.. poignantly beautiful.

Chief Seattle's speech about land treaty in 1854:

"Every part of this country is sacred to my people. Every hillside, every valley, every plain and grove has been hallowed by some fond memory or some sad experience of my tribe. Even the rocks which seem to lie dumb as they swelter in the sun along the silent seashore in solemn grandeur thrill with memories of past events connected with the lives of my people. And when the last red man shall have perished, and the memory of my tribe among the white men shall have become a myth, these shores will swarm with the invisible dead of my tribe, and when your children's children think themselves alone in the field, the store, upon the highway, or in the silence of the pathless woods, they will not be alone. In all the earth there is no place dedicated to solitude. At night when the streets of your cities and villages go silent and you think them deserted, they will throng with the returning hosts that once filled and still love this beautiful land. The white man will never be alone. Let him be just and deal kindly with my people for the dead are not powerless. Dead -- did I say? There is no death, only a change of worlds."

From "A Time of Gathering, Native Heritage in Washington State."

thank you! I wanted to put it in my journal #BlackLivesMatter

[deathrind]

153. The lady was rude

What she did was uncalled for. End of story.

But she did manage to derail his campaign for some days now so I guess the ends justify her means in her mind and the minds of the rest of the BLM movement.

[JustAnotherGen]

157. Group Host - You are in the African American Group

deathrind

153. The lady was rude

View profile


What she did was uncalled for. End of story.

But she did manage to derail his campaign for some days now so I guess the ends justify her means in her mind and the minds of the rest of the BLM movement.

Please back away from the thread and group.

Thanks - first/last warning.

[deathrind]

161. Please explain.

The reason for the intimidating reply and just exactly what special requirements need to be met in order to reply to a thread in said group?

[JustAnotherGen]

162. You saw Starry Messenger's Post above - a Fellow Group Host

Here's the exchange.

For the record - I was not threatening. I made myself clear.

I'm sorry - you are now blocked.

Star Member Starry Messenger (26,935 posts)

10. **Pls read before posting if you are new** This is the African-American group, a protected space.





Last edited Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

I've been given instructions to warn once, and then block, people who are just in here to defend a politician during this event.

First and last warning. Thank you.

https://twitter.com/rosicrucian1970 @rosicrucian1970 || http://rosicrucian1970.blogspot.com Starry Messenger Blog || Making sharing cool, check out Socialist Progressives Group: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1024 || History of the Communist Party of the United States http://williamzfoster.blogspot.com/

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 06:56 PM

A Simple Game (7,700 posts)

20. So to be fair, what are your instructions for people that are just here to bring down a politician?






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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:00 PM

Star Member Starry Messenger (26,935 posts)

22. Is a poster here to support African-Americans, allies, and issues?





Have they been in here before, posting in support of those issues? Or is that poster just in here to be cute? Because I've been told to use my judgement on that.

Are you asking for a friend?

https://twitter.com/rosicrucian1970 @rosicrucian1970 || http://rosicrucian1970.blogspot.com Starry Messenger Blog || Making sharing cool, check out Socialist Progressives Group: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1024 || History of the Communist Party of the United States http://williamzfoster.blogspot.com/

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:03 PM

A Simple Game (7,700 posts)

23. No, just for myself and all of DU in general.





I don't come here often, only when posts here are linked on the home page in latest or greatest and the subject seems interesting. In fact the post you are responding to is my first post in this group.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 07:10 PM

Star Member Starry Messenger (26,935 posts)

27. Subscribing to the group is a great way to get updates.





You can read all of the great information and threads in here by posters who are regulars. Get to know some folks. I usually recommend reading and getting a sense of a group before diving in.


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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 08:09 PM

A Simple Game (7,700 posts)

58. Thanks but no thanks.





If you had answered my question I may have been interested but you dodged it so I'll just say goodbye.

But thanks for the offer anyway.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:32 PM

Number23 (19,377 posts)

92. "I don't come in here often. In fact, this is my first post ever and it's about something completely





unimportant."



I have just about had a gutfull of this.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #92)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:40 PM

Star Member Starry Messenger (26,935 posts)

97. Shall I?





I've still got some arrows in the quiver and I'm still tanked on caffeine.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #97)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:43 PM

Number23 (19,377 posts)

98. Nah, hopefully he won't come back. I still err on the side of giving at least one warning





But that was something special right there.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #98)

Tue Aug 11, 2015, 11:58 PM

Star Member Starry Messenger (26,935 posts)

107. Very special.






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[Cha]

174. NO, it's not the end of the story. Not by a long shot. too bad if you don't like how they

Protested.

[CanonRay]

154. I know I'm really sick of all the snark.

[noiretextatique]

165. I do not support the actions or goals of those two

However, I do support BLM and Bernie Sanders.

[Cha]

173. I support Marissa Johnson/#BlackLiveMatter.. Mahalo kwassa for your OP