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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:16 AM Aug 2015

So Bravenak was finally shut down







http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=300456&sub=trans

Let me preface my remarks by saying I am white. I don't know why I need to point it out but one of the denizens of this board pointed it out to me and implied because I am white I can't speak about issues that affect African Americans yet many denizens of this board, the vast majority of whom are white have no such compunction. In fact some seem to want to circumcsribe how black people act, who their leaders should and shouldn't be, and how those leaders should act.
....

Now that we got that out of the way...There is something profoundly wrong with a Democratic board that represents a party that is nearly 45% non white that there are so few non white members of this board and that another non white voice has been shut down.

Something isn't right.

DemocratSinceBirth
233 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
So Bravenak was finally shut down (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 OP
Here is the jury results: Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #1
Lots of thin skin on DU. Ugh. nt nc4bo Aug 2015 #4
Very thin skin. Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #7
Defensiveness ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #15
Right again, and possibly mixed with repressed guilt Warpy Aug 2015 #169
Can on place an entire Group on one's "Banned Juror" list? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #180
Sadly, it has to be done one at a time Warpy Aug 2015 #184
I use neither, the Banned Juror, nor the Ignore features. I did attempt to trash a group ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #198
I wonder why your trash can popped open Warpy Aug 2015 #199
Or perhaps, require jurors to state a reason for voting to hide a comment. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #201
I post comments frequently Warpy Aug 2015 #211
If someone refers to progressive supporters as white supremacists, what would you expect? still_one Aug 2015 #54
Exactly. There is, or should be, one standard of truth, fairness and decency cheapdate Aug 2015 #105
I served on the jury of another alerted bravenk post GitRDun Aug 2015 #12
That's a well-deserved hide.... truebrit71 Aug 2015 #26
Yup. SoapBox Aug 2015 #41
No, it isn't. Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #55
Agree. Also have never heard a white person use the expression "black-ass" anything. Demit Aug 2015 #64
That too. n/t Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #74
Well said. And the fact that this would have to be explained to anyone on DU shows how Number23 Aug 2015 #100
Exactly. SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #148
Isn't that the truth. blackspade Aug 2015 #230
It is a white-ass crowd Gman Aug 2015 #80
Post removed Post removed Aug 2015 #99
Love the outreach.... truebrit71 Aug 2015 #104
We don't do "outreach" in here. And even if we did, you would not be on that list. Number23 Aug 2015 #106
Charming. truebrit71 Aug 2015 #108
Much more than you've ever been to any of us. Number23 Aug 2015 #110
This message was self-deleted by its author Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #103
Someone alerted. FWIW, I voted to leave it. NaturalHigh Aug 2015 #142
I don't see, now that I think of it, SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #150
What I don't get is HOW THE HELL ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #205
Yes, that was beyond nuts. nt SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #210
No it wasn't Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #190
Results LWolf Aug 2015 #206
Thanks for letting me know Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #224
How do jury members know who made the alert? Are they bbgrunt Aug 2015 #52
They don't know the identity of the alerter. n/t GP6971 Aug 2015 #71
they don't know. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #179
Spot on--> "Something isn't right." riversedge Aug 2015 #2
+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #3
I have a friend who is black and left of center like me. I would tell him to post here but ... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #5
Did he get kicked out of DU of just have one post hidden? jalan48 Aug 2015 #6
5 or 7 posts hidden... I am not sure... DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #8
Thanks, I don't really know the protocol for all of this. jalan48 Aug 2015 #11
Bravenak is outspoken, and I suspect many don't like seeing the truth blatantly exposed by her. George II Aug 2015 #16
I was on one of those juries last night. Purrfessor Aug 2015 #25
if you still have the jury results in your inbox hit alert on them and msanthrope Aug 2015 #38
This message was self-deleted by its author magical thyme Aug 2015 #37
Four posts alerted and hidden within a matter of minutes. I don't think that's due to her "bombast" George II Aug 2015 #40
This message was self-deleted by its author magical thyme Aug 2015 #50
This poster wanted to throw things at Black people and called them "brats" Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #56
not at generic "black people" but the 2 girls who rushed the stage, grabbed the mike and started magical thyme Aug 2015 #67
You're in the African-American forum calling a Black poster bombastic Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #75
Looking at post 75 below JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #87
I'm sorry. I didn't realize where I was until it was pointed out. magical thyme Aug 2015 #91
Don't delete your posts JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #92
sorry. already deleted most of them. magical thyme Aug 2015 #93
Your posts in this thread are disgusting and disruptive. Please do no not return to this thread Number23 Aug 2015 #101
Thank you. Cha Aug 2015 #149
Yeah, she was constantly race nagging Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #58
This message was self-deleted by its author magical thyme Aug 2015 #61
Did I use that term? No. She was accused of race nagging. Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #73
Yeah I got a hide for pointing out that term and my disgust with it. zappaman Aug 2015 #102
I hate to say this, but DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #78
Regardless of who you support awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #107
Speaking of posting etiquette, brer cat Aug 2015 #83
She's also a group host JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #88
Thank you, JAG. brer cat Aug 2015 #89
She ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #18
She, sorry. jalan48 Aug 2015 #21
I think many people thought Eric Holder was just talking about the right when he said: Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #96
'a nation of cowards' said the man who didnt prosecute a single banker HFRN Aug 2015 #112
And you're certainly free to start your own thread on that. This is AA Group where we discuss issues Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #116
Why do posters feel the need, sheshe2 Aug 2015 #146
You know nothing about all the excellent work Eric Holder did as AG.. so quite acting like you Cha Aug 2015 #159
Another white guy here who doesn't get it... GitRDun Aug 2015 #9
Well stated ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author magical thyme Aug 2015 #39
Yep awoke_in_2003 Aug 2015 #111
I like Bernie too GitRDun Aug 2015 #115
That's not strange ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #130
This white woman agrees totally mcar Aug 2015 #30
Great post. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #34
+1 n/t Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #60
Oh there is something wrong all right ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #10
A great post. Thank you. ancianita Aug 2015 #20
Well Stated ... I wish I could rec a post ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #24
I could.. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #28
Thank you! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #32
Excellent, ism. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #147
Well said! Spazito Aug 2015 #45
but probably the same as usual. AlbertCat Aug 2015 #97
What does this post mean? Number23 Aug 2015 #109
I think you & I know. Obviously a call-out. And in a protected group. Go figure. n/t Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #117
No, it means this: ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #161
I've known brave for a NUMBER of years - way before DU. raven mad Aug 2015 #13
This is why Mbrow Aug 2015 #14
I agree-let people speak. jalan48 Aug 2015 #23
Between her and 1SBM, Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #17
What do we want?!? ... Nullification!!! ... When do we want it?!? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #27
DURec. blackspade Aug 2015 #232
The first was for a post made at 9:29 PM, the fourth was posted at 9:36 PM. George II Aug 2015 #29
Willing to bet it was a single alerter. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #31
I won't take that bet. n/t GP6971 Aug 2015 #49
Could well be. SusanCalvin Aug 2015 #152
OMG, George. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #144
I was on the jury of one of her posts at 9:20 PM betsuni Aug 2015 #160
There has never been an override of a jury decission. L0oniX Aug 2015 #59
I never said there had been. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #63
They'll never do that. The whole idea of the jury system is to be self regulating without the admins L0oniX Aug 2015 #66
Yes, I know that. Dr Hobbitstein Aug 2015 #69
Skinner should not only override the juries, he should end the jury moderation system. Gormy Cuss Aug 2015 #65
Thanks for posting this. I admire and appreciate bravenak. I'm hate that DU is doing this. ancianita Aug 2015 #19
It's rapidly becoming ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #33
That is some serious bullshit. As was stated above, I learn a lot from her and the other PoC here. PeaceNikki Aug 2015 #35
I learn a lot from her and the other PoC here. AlbertCat Aug 2015 #51
thank you. While I appreciated Bravnak's passion and POV, her bbgrunt Aug 2015 #68
+1 senz Aug 2015 #86
too bad.. bravenak spoke the truth.. she was a BS supporter until they turned on Black Activists Cha Aug 2015 #154
Hmmm, I've seen conspiracy theories thrown at the DUers supporting Black Lives Matter... Spazito Aug 2015 #72
These kinds of attacks and even the accusations are often used by the right wing ... AlbertCat Aug 2015 #94
Okay, I see it is all Black Lives Matter's fault... Spazito Aug 2015 #95
Yes....you got it! AlbertCat Aug 2015 #204
LOL... Spazito Aug 2015 #207
This is a safe space for African American posters and allies. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #214
Emotional, screeching, too dumb to find out about Sanders and his positions -- betsuni Aug 2015 #162
why not accuse BLM of having PMS while you're at it. AlbertCat Aug 2015 #203
Yes! "None so blind as those who will not see". Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #118
+1 from top to bottom. n/t bvf Aug 2015 #76
This message was self-deleted by its author bvf Aug 2015 #76
Thank you for this. senz Aug 2015 #85
These idiotic talking points are not welcome here. Contrary to what you and a few others need to Number23 Aug 2015 #113
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2015 #167
black people are FULLY capable of thinking for ourselves. AlbertCat Aug 2015 #200
She (Number23) is a co-host of the group JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #215
I blocked her JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #217
as an older white woman I thought she brought a perspective msanthrope Aug 2015 #36
As another older white woman .... etherealtruth Aug 2015 #42
I always learn from her. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2015 #47
There is structural oppression on DU. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #43
Wow, that's some bullshit hides. zappaman Aug 2015 #44
Of what you speak heaven05 Aug 2015 #46
And now heaven05 is flagged for review! This place is a FUCKING JOKE Number23 Aug 2015 #114
Heaven05 too? You have got to be shittin' me. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #119
Why are you and I still here? We've both been here long enough to see this place sink to uncharted Number23 Aug 2015 #121
And now we're obviously tools of the GOP. I mean it, I read it right here in this thread from a.... Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #122
Flagged, but only 4 hides, so can't see why. Some reveling in their Power. freshwest Aug 2015 #136
Please do. BainsBane Aug 2015 #163
I thought I did. Should I mail the hosts? I won't post here. The swarm would follow. n/t freshwest Aug 2015 #172
Thanks fresh, and it's good to know there are alternatives. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #175
Although I see that JAG is already putting her plan into action, and it may bring in a lot of AA's freshwest Aug 2015 #176
Sounds like a plan. I don't do Twitter much myself as I also prefer the forum format. n/t Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #177
I do too JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #187
Those "little pups" are so far beyond me technologically, it ain't funny. I have limited patience. Tarheel_Dem Aug 2015 #220
JFC! sheshe2 Aug 2015 #219
The problem is the huge reward for getting posts hidden. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #48
Actually, you make a good point with the "framing" practice. Eleanors38 Aug 2015 #133
banned forever? or timeout? I didn't know Bravenak lost posting privledges Sunlei Aug 2015 #53
Her status is listed as GP6971 Aug 2015 #62
A very low percentage of her posts have been hidden in the last 90 days cpwm17 Aug 2015 #57
This message was self-deleted by its author Jester Messiah Aug 2015 #70
This is exactly why I won't serve on a jury Gman Aug 2015 #79
The ugly truth DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #81
Correct. brer cat Aug 2015 #82
Heaven Knows... (VIDEO): freshwest Aug 2015 #84
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Aug 2015 #90
You have a right to dislike her. I categorically reject the fact she was silenced. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Aug 2015 #123
She sure will be seeing as she is a Host in this Group JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #125
You know nothing about her.. yet you act like you do. you see the problem? Cha Aug 2015 #157
Merry Christmas JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #127
Bravenak has been a strong voice for African Americans on DU.. those who can't handle the truth Cha Aug 2015 #156
For the sisters of #BLM, for LiberalStalwart, bravenak and now apparently heaven05 Number23 Aug 2015 #120
many of these loved calling the president a piece of shit. support the rapist assange JI7 Aug 2015 #124
DU's self proclaimed high priests of liberalism JoePhilly Aug 2015 #128
that's a bitter laugh.. "DU's self proclaimed high priests of liberalism.. Cha Aug 2015 #153
All this mcar Aug 2015 #155
And now heaven05 too. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #126
He's flagged for review JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #129
Complete bullshit. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #132
That's why I didn't alert on the snotty words back here JustAnotherGen Aug 2015 #134
Sorry I'm replying so slowly, DU is loading like molasses today! Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #140
calling bernie supporters nazis was egregious. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #135
And how are you Warren? Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #138
Well done, Starry Messenger! Cha Aug 2015 #151
Well, I don't like to get negative with posters in here. Starry Messenger Aug 2015 #166
I know exactly what you mean.. and in my view you handled it perfectly. Cha Aug 2015 #168
Is it not enough to stifle AA voices Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #139
Well, they have now silenced several African American DUers haven't they? stevenleser Aug 2015 #143
Another voice supporting calling people here nazis. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #178
No, that's not what I said. But while you are at it, see post #174 below. stevenleser Aug 2015 #185
Welcome to the fray. joshcryer Aug 2015 #173
This is a loss for all of DU DemocraticWing Aug 2015 #131
This ceased being a "Democratic board" Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #137
It would be really hard to support Bernie if he were the nominee now. stevenleser Aug 2015 #141
Steven, just give us a heads up before hand so we can all tune in Number23 Aug 2015 #145
"People who screamed for years, "hold Pres Obama's feet to the fire" are now saying.. Cha Aug 2015 #158
I'm so conflicted... OneGrassRoot Aug 2015 #191
Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #212
Some of those hides are terrible LittleBlue Aug 2015 #164
How disingenuous to suggest bravenek was shut down because he/she is non-white. Lil Missy Aug 2015 #165
"The same rules apply to everyone. And believe it or not, most people never get any hides! " DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #216
I will respond to my own thread because I am still steaming DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #218
"... And look at those white ass crowds. Just look. slipslidingaway Aug 2015 #170
Bravenak is a dear online friend. lovemydog Aug 2015 #171
Number23 got locked out of this thread for doing host duties. joshcryer Aug 2015 #174
Truth will out every time. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #181
The whole moderation/jury system needs to be changed! ananda Aug 2015 #182
When I learned of this, I went and looked at all of the hidden posts. MineralMan Aug 2015 #183
In other words, Business As Usual by the paid disruptors brought to you by Koch valerief Aug 2015 #186
I doubt that very much. MineralMan Aug 2015 #188
So who's paying the Sarah Palin fan gal? nt valerief Aug 2015 #189
I'm done with this subthread. MineralMan Aug 2015 #192
Sorry, but I'm not trying to be difficult. I just don't get your point. valerief Aug 2015 #193
I would respond in kind but I don't want to get a hide because the jury system is tainted. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #194
Funny, I never look at the group. I usually respond to posts I see in Latest Threads. valerief Aug 2015 #195
This 'paid Koch/Walton disruptor' shtick is getting real old. wyldwolf Aug 2015 #209
Genuine equality activists don't beat on their advocates. nt valerief Aug 2015 #229
Not only that, keep in mind that BLM is literally fighting a life or death campaign. Folks are dying stevenleser Aug 2015 #196
Exactly. On the very anniversary of Michael Brown's MineralMan Aug 2015 #197
exactly Quayblue Aug 2015 #202
To be fair, it's just not PoC being "targeted" ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #213
That's true, too. MineralMan Aug 2015 #221
I saw your OP ... Expect to be "Bravenaked" ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #222
LOL! At my age, it would take true bravery to be naked. MineralMan Aug 2015 #225
... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #226
Bravenak is one of my favorite posters. octoberlib Aug 2015 #208
Can you clear that up a bit? cstanleytech Aug 2015 #223
I was referring to people using the jury system to specifically target people. octoberlib Aug 2015 #227
I thought it tracked who alerts and flags it for review if to many are detected? cstanleytech Aug 2015 #228
Sorry I missed this thread. blackspade Aug 2015 #231
I already miss her voice and want her back. Raine1967 Aug 2015 #233

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
1. Here is the jury results:
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:33 AM
Aug 2015

On Sat Aug 8, 2015, 07:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hillary is not doing those type of events.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1171048

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

A poster attacking a large group of liberals and progressives turning out for a Democrat and calling them "white ass" crowds and saying it "scares" her? This is ratfucking 101 and the type of shit I expect over at Discussionist.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Aug 8, 2015, 07:12 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Divisive bullshit
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's just an opinion
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerted alerts on this post and then goes into the attack mode, not nice.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Partisan alert, nothing more.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Comparing Bernie supporters to tea party is OTT.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yep. Over the top hyperbole and insulting.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.


IMHO, the alerter's comments are more abusive than the post which was alerted and a direct attack on the poster.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
15. Defensiveness ...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:59 AM
Aug 2015

It has been observed that the absolute worst thing anyone can do to a white liberal is point out their flirtations with the racist line. We have seen time and again, where DUers (Black DUers) were censured for calling out racist statement; while, the DUer that actually made the statement is made out to be the victim.

Warpy

(111,367 posts)
169. Right again, and possibly mixed with repressed guilt
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:47 AM
Aug 2015

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:34 AM - Edit history (1)

I get my nosed rubbed in things I'd rather not notice and I don't like it at all, stomping around, throwing pillows and swearing for a while. I don't, however, use the alert button. If it's justified, I sulk for a while and accept the education. If it isn't, I fire back.

I'm very angry that BravenAK has been suspended. I've been a fan of her posts and I hate the way she was targeted. When she comes back, and I sincerely hope she does, maybe making use of the "banned juror" feature would be a good idea for her. I'm sure she knows some of her
targeters.

Warpy

(111,367 posts)
184. Sadly, it has to be done one at a time
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:49 AM
Aug 2015

While I have only two on my own list, I do feel your pain.

It would help if people had to be members of protected groups where they alert on posts. Open forums could still be donnybrooks.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
198. I use neither, the Banned Juror, nor the Ignore features. I did attempt to trash a group ...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:56 AM
Aug 2015

but the trashing didn't take ... I still see posts from that Group. I didn't trash it because I didn't/don't want to see the posts; but rather, out of the frustration of reading and writing a response, only to find I could not post it because I was blocked from the group.

I would like to see the end of anonymous alerting and anonymous jurors ... anonymity promotes cowardly conduct.

Warpy

(111,367 posts)
199. I wonder why your trash can popped open
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:01 AM
Aug 2015

Mine has stayed resolutely sealed against GD-P posts. I see them only if I'm called up on a jury.

Maybe the star helps, dunno about that.

I agree that anonymity has given a few bullies tremendous power here. It would help if the DU PTB would track each person's alert history to get rid of people who tend to alert on anyone who disagrees with them, however mildly.

Warpy

(111,367 posts)
211. I post comments frequently
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:49 AM
Aug 2015

because I'm a sarcastic old bag and I hate bogus alerts from thin skinned morons who can't take being disagreed with. Your suggestion might help but they'd likely just post "agree with alerter."

The problem with the system as it stands is that there is no appeals process.

still_one

(92,433 posts)
54. If someone refers to progressive supporters as white supremacists, what would you expect?
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:25 PM
Aug 2015

If someone comes out and calls someone a rapist, and the person isn't a rapist, what should the person unfairly being called a rapist do?

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
105. Exactly. There is, or should be, one standard of truth, fairness and decency
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:32 PM
Aug 2015

in these discussions. Nobody gets any special breaks or gets any special right to make scurrilous accusations.

Nobody gets to lay the burdens and sins of the past, or purge their personal demons, on another poster and expect them to lay back and take it.

This is getting McCarthyesque. "Are you now, or have you ever been..."

GitRDun

(1,846 posts)
12. I served on the jury of another alerted bravenk post
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:53 AM
Aug 2015

On Wed Aug 5, 2015, 09:21 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

A non black poc talking shit about us black ones.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=494218

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Referring to a DUer of color as a token is totally over the top offensive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Aug 5, 2015, 09:25 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A rant but no personal insults. Seems like another in the long line of let's get bravenak alerts. I have a suggestion. Find something else to do.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: She has the right be heard.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Edit token out and this would be OK with me.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

This harmless reply barely survived the jury.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
26. That's a well-deserved hide....
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:23 AM
Aug 2015

..."look at that white-ass crowd".... Imagine the howls of indignation if someone had said something about all the "black-ass" crowds at an Obama event...

Oh, and the tea party treats you better? Fuck off with that shit.



Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
55. No, it isn't.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:26 PM
Aug 2015

"White-ass crowd" and "black-ass crowd" are not equivalents as insults. It's a common problem, taking offense at insults aimed at the empowered and trying to equate those insults with those aimed at the historically oppressed.

Is "white-ass" the most polite way to state that opinion? No, but it's a mild epithet not worth a hide.

 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
64. Agree. Also have never heard a white person use the expression "black-ass" anything.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:41 PM
Aug 2015

Not saying it's impossible, just that having been a white person for a long time I've never heard it.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
100. Well said. And the fact that this would have to be explained to anyone on DU shows how
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:18 PM
Aug 2015

completely divorced from reality this place is now.

Gman

(24,780 posts)
80. It is a white-ass crowd
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:29 PM
Aug 2015

What's the problem? I don't expect you to know why there's nothing wrong with that statement. You have to live it.

Response to truebrit71 (Reply #26)

Number23

(24,544 posts)
106. We don't do "outreach" in here. And even if we did, you would not be on that list.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:33 PM
Aug 2015

You've now been informed where you're posting and have been asked to not return. Twice now.

Response to truebrit71 (Reply #26)

NaturalHigh

(12,778 posts)
142. Someone alerted. FWIW, I voted to leave it.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 08:08 PM
Aug 2015

On Sun Aug 9, 2015, 04:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

That's a well-deserved hide....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=20521

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Disgusting post, in the AA group no less. Totally inappropriate.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:04 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

SusanCalvin

(6,592 posts)
150. I don't see, now that I think of it,
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 08:48 PM
Aug 2015

Why the jury system extends to protected groups. Since they have hosts (or whatever it's called), what's the point of something that can override the hosts? Or quite possibly I am confused. Yeah, this is meta. So sue me.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
205. What I don't get is HOW THE HELL ...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:19 AM
Aug 2015

a jury would vote to hide the post of a group's host asking someone that is posting counter to that groups mission to leave the group?

Should she have just wielded the block hammer with no warning?

Change days we have here on DU ... and as a DUer noted in another OP, "protect me from (those claiming to be) my allies!"

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
190. No it wasn't
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:32 AM
Aug 2015

This post should have been hidden.

To quote your words:

"Fuck off with that shit."

I suggest that you take your own advice.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
206. Results
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:21 AM
Aug 2015

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Telling another DUer to fuck off is a personal attack, even when done in a roundabout, passive-aggressive way.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:17 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So, this post was alerted, but not the one quoted? Double-standard much?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The post above this thread should be hidden as well. I suspect that is who alerted on this. Just about how that sort of thing works, the one who throws the second punch always gets caught.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: quoting someone's words back at them is not hideworthy
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hardly hideworthy in a thread like this.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: disagree with the alerter. everyone needs to try to tone it down a bit. too much rancor.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm not going to hide a post because the post quotes another DUer. If the quote is that offensive, the post it came from should have been alerted on. I see this alert as a passive-aggressive bullshit attack.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
52. How do jury members know who made the alert? Are they
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:16 PM
Aug 2015

assuming that the person interacting with her did the alerting?

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
5. I have a friend who is black and left of center like me. I would tell him to post here but ...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:40 AM
Aug 2015

I have a friend who is black and left of center like me who has so much life experience. He was born in NY to a Kenyan diplomat , went to English run boarding schools in Kenya and high school and college in England. He's been in the U S since his mid twenties so he can speak to being a black guy on three continents. I would invite him here but he would think I was a kook.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
8. 5 or 7 posts hidden... I am not sure...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:42 AM
Aug 2015

Five gets you a timeout...I guess the two came after the timeout.

George II

(67,782 posts)
16. Bravenak is outspoken, and I suspect many don't like seeing the truth blatantly exposed by her.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:02 AM
Aug 2015

It's interesting that six of the seven hides were 4-3 votes and FOUR were last night.

Seems the word has gotten out?

All seven can be read on her transparency page - people can judge for themselves.

Purrfessor

(1,188 posts)
25. I was on one of those juries last night.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:22 AM
Aug 2015

Bravenak's comment was in no way a personal attack or insult. The alerter's comment made a couple very disparaging remarks about Bravenak that anyone would have found offensive.

I voted to leave Bravenak's comment alone. The vote went against her 4-3.

Clearly there are DU members who, when they dislike someone, they will go out of their way to alert on them for reasons that do not rise to alert material.

It ticks me off when I see it.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
38. if you still have the jury results in your inbox hit alert on them and
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:53 AM
Aug 2015

And alert the administrators to the offensive comments...... there's a button on the bottom of the PM

Response to George II (Reply #16)

George II

(67,782 posts)
40. Four posts alerted and hidden within a matter of minutes. I don't think that's due to her "bombast"
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:59 AM
Aug 2015

As I mentioned, the seven hidden posts are on her transparency page. People can read them and judge for themselves.

Response to George II (Reply #40)

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
67. not at generic "black people" but the 2 girls who rushed the stage, grabbed the mike and started
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:45 PM
Aug 2015

ordering everybody around and screaming until they got their way, and then when they got their way and shut down the event, started name calling the people who went there to hear about social security and decided to leave because the social security event was officially over.

Also the security guards who stood there and didn't stop the girls from getting up on the stage. That was a pretty shocking display of ineptitude. I slipped past far better security at a Doors concert, but although I did get by I didn't last long

For the record, I can't watch Caribou Barbie or Ann Coulter or Donald Trump or Chris Christie or any number of white people without wanting to throw things at them. And I consider them to be spoiled brats too.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
75. You're in the African-American forum calling a Black poster bombastic
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:58 PM
Aug 2015

and telling people you put her on ignore. Sorry not all Black people can't be as nice as your qualifications require.

White people threatening to throw things as Black people, or feeling hostile about their protests, are hardly on the same level as being pissed about some ultra-right enemies who are white. You equating them says far more about your perceptions than you might figure.

JustAnotherGen

(31,924 posts)
87. Looking at post 75 below
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:14 PM
Aug 2015

Im asking you as a group host - please trash the group.

These posts come across as gloating at best. I can appreciate your pov but I'm not up for thread watching today. I dont want anymore pms about it. Thanks!

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
91. I'm sorry. I didn't realize where I was until it was pointed out.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:39 PM
Aug 2015

I will delete my posts and trash the group as requested.

One of the dangers of having a lot of recs is a post gets listed in various places on the home page and attracts a lot of attention.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
101. Your posts in this thread are disgusting and disruptive. Please do no not return to this thread
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:22 PM
Aug 2015

or this forum.

Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #58)

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
73. Did I use that term? No. She was accused of race nagging.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:50 PM
Aug 2015

And that is such an odd way to describe someone pointing out race matters that it strikes me exactly as it did her: a tad too close to calling her the "n" word. I say that as a white person with a professional history of monitoring Federal anti-discrimination programs.
Bigots always think they're clever when they do that. If that poster just made an unfortunate choice of words, I hope that the person has profusely apologized to bravenak in public and private and also apologized to DU for it.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
102. Yeah I got a hide for pointing out that term and my disgust with it.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:27 PM
Aug 2015

There certainly is a group on DU that is extremely thin skinned.
Bravenak has been punished by this group for speaking up.
It's bullshit.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
78. I hate to say this, but
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:20 PM
Aug 2015

I used to be a Bernie Supporter, until I saw how blatantly some Bernie supporters were manipulated. Yes, the BLM also had their instigators, but the tone many Bernie people took to their person being criticized was the high and mighty "how darest thou?" tone that yes, does speak of privilege. Sorry, you do not have the right to barge into the African American group and be arrogant while complaining about what BLM did. You really do not have the right to grave dance over bravenak while doing that, and you certainly do not get to say "maybe she did it herself."

Do not get me wrong, I really have a nasty feeling that in 2017, all sorts of Magoo will hatch from the corpse, paid for both by Koch money and my Hill's friends in Wall Street. That will not stop me from voting TO KEEP THE GOP OUT, but I will say that right now, the Democrats are at their lowest point since 2008, and once again, it is being done by people who want to argue about whether race or class is the issue, when they are both part of the whole that the privileged majority uses to stay privileged.

brer cat

(24,621 posts)
83. Speaking of posting etiquette,
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:55 PM
Aug 2015

you are calling out bravenak while you are in the AA Group, and when she isn't here to respond.

brer cat

(24,621 posts)
89. Thank you, JAG.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:22 PM
Aug 2015

You are very diligent. It is a painful day around here, and salt in wounds is never appreciated.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
18. She ...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:05 AM
Aug 2015

and there is/has been a (imo) coordinated attempt to silence Black voices that talk real about race issues.

I know because I have experienced it to the point that I think twice before posting on threads discussing liberals and race issues.

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
112. 'a nation of cowards' said the man who didnt prosecute a single banker
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:41 PM
Aug 2015

before going back to a cushy wall street job

Tarheel_Dem

(31,243 posts)
116. And you're certainly free to start your own thread on that. This is AA Group where we discuss issues
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:53 PM
Aug 2015

of race and ethnicity. Hope that's not too hard for you to figure out. Enjoy your stay here.

sheshe2

(83,940 posts)
146. Why do posters feel the need,
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 08:33 PM
Aug 2015

to come into the AA Group and trash African Americans? You have all of GD and GDP to do that.

Cha

(297,772 posts)
159. You know nothing about all the excellent work Eric Holder did as AG.. so quite acting like you
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:18 PM
Aug 2015

do.

GitRDun

(1,846 posts)
9. Another white guy here who doesn't get it...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:47 AM
Aug 2015

If I wanted a self confirming feedback loop, I could lock into Fox News, MSNBC, or some other place that spits out a çanned message every day.

If all we're going to do around here is have a non stop food fight between candidates, stomp out people who point out how the candidates can be better, it's going to be a long, boring ride that produces little electoral success.

bravenak is not some troll sitting around delighting in the harassment of white people, she's authentic, passionate about making sure candidates understand the realities of life for POC, even posted links of blogs where we could all gain some perspective.

Even though there were times we disagreed, DU losing her means DU losing perspective.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
22. Well stated ...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:12 AM
Aug 2015
bravenak is not some troll sitting around delighting in the harassment of white people, she's authentic, passionate about making sure candidates understand the realities of life for POC, even posted links of blogs where we could all gain some perspective.


Ironically, Bravenak was a STRONG Bernie supporter; but, Bernie supporter took her advice to Bernie as a personal affront.

And funny ... many of these same folks were quick to apply the "Hero worshiper" label to others.

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #22)

GitRDun

(1,846 posts)
115. I like Bernie too
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:53 PM
Aug 2015

probably a bit more than HRC today.

I got kicked out of the Bernie group today for arguing Bernie needs to step up and lead his campaign to a better relationship with BLM and all constituencies within the Democratic Party.

They have a losing strategy if they think they can win without building relationships with communities whose votes they need...

Very strange...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
130. That's not strange ...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:22 PM
Aug 2015

it is consistent with their belief that they are the center of the political universe ... regardless, of what the data indicates.

It's called narcissistic delusion.

mcar

(42,388 posts)
30. This white woman agrees totally
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:32 AM
Aug 2015

I so appreciate the perspectives of people who are not just like me.

Bravenak is a wonderful poster. I have learned much from her, 1SBM and other Af Am DUers.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
34. Great post.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:41 AM
Aug 2015

White woman here too, who appreciates the chance to follow threads and posts that represent a variety of views from posters in this forum.

It is very disturbing that DUers are targeting African-American posters for repeated alerting.

ismnotwasm

(42,014 posts)
10. Oh there is something wrong all right
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:49 AM
Aug 2015

#BLM is now under the bus--as far as I've seen anything tossed.

I'll tell you what, Sanders had one rally--wasn't even his rally he was just there --interrupted. He then went on to speak to thousands of adoring fans. I don't know the racial composition, but probably the same as usual. All hell breaks loose because a grassroots organization for African American people, started because they are being shot dead on the street DARED to confront a white liberal--who happens to be very popular. If people are really paying attention, this isn't the first time, or the second, or the 100th time white liberals have been critizised by PoC--far from it.

It's much like white feminism. As a white feminist, I HAVE to acknowledge we have failed women of color. Not all of us and not all the time, but consistently and it's only fairly recently that strong voices of these women (those who are not poets and authors) are speaking out to the point they're being heard, to the point white women make the effort to cross the divide. I think it was Bravenek who said "you have to come to us, we aren't going to you" and that's how it should be given all the history that's gone before.

All the history that's gone before--an important point I think

Bravenak tried, as hard as I've seen anyone try, to reach across racial divides and get folks to listen. I saw her comments, read her OP's tried to learn, as much as I could -as another white person--from what she was trying to say. (No Hillary fan, she) And she was shut down.

Something wrong? It's probably an understatement.

Spazito

(50,495 posts)
45. Well said!
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:06 PM
Aug 2015

I am beyond disgusted at the concerted effort put toward shutting Bravenak down, it became almost pathological, imo. Alert after alert after alert because some can't handle the unvarnished truth Bravenak was working so hard at trying to get DUers to understand. Her commitment to keep trying even in the face of so many insults and ugly responses is incredible and made me respect her even more.

She kept trying to tell DUers that it wasn't only on DU where there is anger at the way too many Bernie supporters attacking Black Lives Matter and the black community, I am hearing it covered on shows like Melissa Harris Perry's show and all over the internet.

I have learned so much from Bravenak's posts, it is appalling her voice has been silenced, imo.

Mbrow

(1,090 posts)
14. This is why
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:56 AM
Aug 2015

I rarely vote to hide anything, whether I agree or not doesn't matter. what matters to me is it an over the top attack, foul words, or an obvious troll, other than that I expect people to defend themselves or with help from our more experienced members in defending a POV.
If someone is just being passive aggressive or the "so are you but what am I" nonsense, well their foolishness is obvious to all.

It seems so easy to get someone kicked out of here.

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
17. Between her and 1SBM,
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:04 AM
Aug 2015

I've learned a LOT. Her voice will be sorely missed. If there was ever a time for Skinner to override the juries, it's now. She was clearly targeted.

betsuni

(25,668 posts)
160. I was on the jury of one of her posts at 9:20 PM
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:27 PM
Aug 2015

but the vote was to leave it. A flurry of alerts. And these are the jackasses who accuse others of "swarming."

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
66. They'll never do that. The whole idea of the jury system is to be self regulating without the admins
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:43 PM
Aug 2015
 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
69. Yes, I know that.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:48 PM
Aug 2015

But what is and what should be are not the same. I was speaking of what SHOULD, not what is or what will. But I'm pretty sure you knew that.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
65. Skinner should not only override the juries, he should end the jury moderation system.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:42 PM
Aug 2015

DU's no different than the real world: popular vote is not the way to sustain basic community standards in a community with a specific,limited political bent. This ain't Discussionist or other yahoo boards.

PeaceNikki

(27,985 posts)
35. That is some serious bullshit. As was stated above, I learn a lot from her and the other PoC here.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:44 AM
Aug 2015

There are few enough already and we make this an unwelcome place and juries run them off by shutting them up.

ugh.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
51. I learn a lot from her and the other PoC here.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:16 PM
Aug 2015

Yes....


Black lives do matter....of course. Only a Teabagger would think otherwise.


But the most disturbing thing I've learned is the AA community is falling hook line and sinker for Right Wing talking points.... like Sanders doesn't care as much about AA problems as Hillary. This is a lying Conservative meme started the minute they noticed there were a lot of white people in VT and NH. It's an attempt to manipulate the high emotions around race relations.

It's absurd. It's deliberately divisive (and has worked like a charm). It comes from the GOP. It had PoC using terms like "white ass crowd" that "scares them" and comparing them the the Teabaggers..... at a Bernie Sanders rally! WTF? The BLM disruption just played into the GOP's intentions.

I can't believe who's fallen for it! Por ejemplo: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027058753

Any time anyone points this out, they are immediately "suspect" of being either a white supremacist, or someone incapable of "understanding or speaking on race issues".

Stop this championing of GOP talking points! Please.

bbgrunt

(5,281 posts)
68. thank you. While I appreciated Bravnak's passion and POV, her
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:47 PM
Aug 2015

insistence that Sanders and his supporters were uniquely the source of the problem made her posts suspect. The rage that POC are feeling is genuine and needs expression, but directing it almost exclusively at Bernie and his supporters is counterproductive. I would not have shut her down, but I do think BLM is being used politically to the detriment of Bernie, BLM, and the left in general.

Cha

(297,772 posts)
154. too bad.. bravenak spoke the truth.. she was a BS supporter until they turned on Black Activists
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:05 PM
Aug 2015

and supporters of #BlackLIvesMatter .. after NRN.

Spazito

(50,495 posts)
72. Hmmm, I've seen conspiracy theories thrown at the DUers supporting Black Lives Matter...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:49 PM
Aug 2015

accusing them of using Atwater tactics, that Black Lives Matter is a front for Hillary Clinton and George Soros, inferring the black community is only supporting Hillary because of name recognition and not because they completely understand what ALL the candidates are saying and have chosen their preferred candidate on the ISSUES. These kinds of attacks and even the accusations are often used by the right wing yet your post infers you don't see it.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
94. These kinds of attacks and even the accusations are often used by the right wing ...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 03:23 PM
Aug 2015
... yet your post infers you don't see it.

Interesting.


Just how have BOC found out about Sanders and his positions? There have been no Dem debates. Have Hillary and the others even been in the same room yet?

People HAVE heard for a month or so now, starting with the GOP, that not enough black people are at Sanders' events and a whole slew of absurd "it's what he's not saying" complaints. Not so for O'Malley.

"name recognition and not because they completely understand what ALL the candidates are saying and have chosen their preferred candidate on the ISSUES."


They know all the issues (seems like they're stuck on one false one: Sanders doesn't care about blacks)) and have chosen their candidate accordingly?

How can this possibly be?... unless one is just listening to GOP talking points....and a single black activist org. that is screeching, not listening to what the Dems are saying.

Spazito

(50,495 posts)
95. Okay, I see it is all Black Lives Matter's fault...
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 03:27 PM
Aug 2015

if they would only shut up, sit down and politely applaud Bernie, they would be 'good activists' instead of "screeching" activists. Got it.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
204. Yes....you got it!
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:16 AM
Aug 2015

Disruptions do not make people want to listen to you, y'know.


Why haven't they gone after their REAL foes? The GOP?

Why haven't they yelled and screamed at Hillary?

Why do you not want to answer these simple questions?

What's wong with having a BLM forum for the candidates? What's insulting about asking such a simple and obvious question?

And then there's ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7060303

Spazito

(50,495 posts)
207. LOL...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:21 AM
Aug 2015

Why didn't Senator Sanders react better? National candidates should expect protests, prepare for them and have a response yet there appeared to be no expectation, no preparation and a piss poor response afterwards.

That is the issue under discussion as opposed to the attempts at diversion found in your post.

Bad, bad protesters, they should not question, demand anything from the candidates who want their votes, they should sit down, shut up and vote the way they are told, right?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
214. This is a safe space for African American posters and allies.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:13 PM
Aug 2015

There are other threads outside this group where you can have this discussion.

As JAG has noted, people in here who are not regular supporters of threads in here about African American issues are under greater scrutiny. Unless you plan on participating in a supportive way, I'll ask you to please cease posting in this thread or this forum. I have been entrusted with the block feature by the good people in here, and I will employ it if you post again after this warning. Thanks.

betsuni

(25,668 posts)
162. Emotional, screeching, too dumb to find out about Sanders and his positions --
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:46 PM
Aug 2015

why not accuse BLM of having PMS while you're at it.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
203. why not accuse BLM of having PMS while you're at it.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:10 AM
Aug 2015

Oh please. No one too dumb to find out. Where have you gone to research his issues?

So, what are Sanders positions? On a lot of issues? List them.


And how about this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7060303


See.... it's too early to make concrete decisions on any Dem candidate.

Everyone who disagrees with you is not a racist, y'know. (or maybe you don't)

Response to AlbertCat (Reply #51)

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
85. Thank you for this.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:09 PM
Aug 2015

Very articulate; I share your perceptions but couldn't find words to express them. I also got the impression that Hillary supporters were aware of the same thing and enjoying it tremendously, which would explain why so many of them encouraged it.

I admire your courage in expressing this, Albert Cat. It's so important that you did.

On the other hand, I'm wary of any kind of banning. Seems like there should be a better way to resolve disagreements and hurt feelings.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
113. These idiotic talking points are not welcome here. Contrary to what you and a few others need to
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:44 PM
Aug 2015

so desperately believe, black people are FULLY capable of thinking for ourselves. We see and understand more than you ever will.

Please do not return to this thread or this forum.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
200. black people are FULLY capable of thinking for ourselves.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:03 AM
Aug 2015

Who said they weren't.
(you did)

Many people agree with what I wrote.

Check this out
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7060303



And stop telling me what to do.

JustAnotherGen

(31,924 posts)
215. She (Number23) is a co-host of the group
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:17 PM
Aug 2015

Please do not return to this thread or this forum.

I wrote co-host for a reason. I'm sorry - but I'm blocking you.

JustAnotherGen

(31,924 posts)
217. I blocked her
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:22 PM
Aug 2015

There are so many other boards that will allow this -

I light of the tension caused by folks who ignore us until it comes time for chastise us for the past 48 hours -

The rudeness given back to you was why.

You were beyond patient, asked her to leave, she came back - told you what to do.

Gone.

That behavior may be allowed other Groups but it's not allowed here.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
36. as an older white woman I thought she brought a perspective
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:50 AM
Aug 2015

That I am often not privy to...... it saddens me that so few members here can appreciate having something different from themselves and their thoughts expressed.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
43. There is structural oppression on DU.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:03 PM
Aug 2015

It's a microcosm of the larger structure. It's ironic, because activists in other groups have often held up racism as the form of oppression that wouldn't get a pass here--but it looks like we let that one through just fine.

zappaman

(20,606 posts)
44. Wow, that's some bullshit hides.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:04 PM
Aug 2015

The libertarians on this board who have embraced the candidate NOT HILLARY have notoriously thin skin.
DU is lessened by the absence of her voice.
The alert swarm has been busy.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
46. Of what you speak
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:07 PM
Aug 2015

has been the business given to POC for the usual reasons. Mostly a lot of the privileged just cannot stand someone who is a POC pointing out their boils and picked scabs as UGLY and known for what they are. American society/culture/attitudes toward POC ain't never been right. Hasn't been for POC for over 300 years.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
121. Why are you and I still here? We've both been here long enough to see this place sink to uncharted
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 06:06 PM
Aug 2015

new depths.

Why are we still here? How much lower can DU go? This place has no grip on reality, wallows in lies and bullshit, has absolutely no connection or correlation to the Dem Party and is overrun with trolls. Why are we still here?

Tarheel_Dem

(31,243 posts)
122. And now we're obviously tools of the GOP. I mean it, I read it right here in this thread from a....
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 06:12 PM
Aug 2015

poster I've never seen back here. But he has dragged in all the expected talking points, and I hope the hosts are paying attention. As to your question, maybe we're just gluttons for punishment? Who the hell knows at this point?

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
136. Flagged, but only 4 hides, so can't see why. Some reveling in their Power.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:38 PM
Aug 2015

Last edited Sun Aug 9, 2015, 11:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Never seen a Democrat say the things I just read on the Greatest Threads page a couple of hours ago and left the site for freah air. I'd trashed GD Primaries and will trash GD as it's toxic. Can't believe what I read. /b]

If you don't mind, I can ask the Democratic manager of a place coded like DU with no traffic now on a large website, who has asked me to manage it in the past, if the invitation still stands and I manage to contact her. It has many of the same features.

It can be made into a safe haven. It's been so long since most people posted there, it's like a ghost town. It's a very well set up site and was once very busy, but most of the posters on that website went to FB and Twitter. It's set up page wise like DU at View All.

I can't manage it but could get a few of you who know how to administer it (not hard, from what I was told) and ban disruptors and allow good discussions. No jury, no getting away with attacks.. Let me know if anyone is interested. It was once full of Obama fans and supporters, although baggers were tolerated if they behaved themselves. All of those are gone now.

We followed every news story and the elections very closelfy. It was what DU was meant to be.

If I can't get in touch, I can show you the forum, and a new forum can be set up there for AA's. I think the folks deserve a place to speak freely and not be censored like here. Let me know if you're interested by mail and I think you'd like the place. It's also got a number of international forums associated with it. And has been upgraded to handle the new devices.

BTW, I'm not advising you to leave DU... Just offering a suggestion for a place where you can safely talk to each other about issues and all that goes on and then return here. You are all too valuable for this 'community' to lose.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
176. Although I see that JAG is already putting her plan into action, and it may bring in a lot of AA's
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:30 AM
Aug 2015
who can even the odds links linking posts to two twitter hashtags. She's already posted that on a few threads.

Not being on Twitter and Facebook, of course I miss out and I prefer the format at forums,

Just thought it'd be a place for AA's to sit back and strategize and talk about what they really feel.

And she wants to get more AAs on DU to give a more diverse opinion. I think her plan is a winner and could be very fast.



.

JustAnotherGen

(31,924 posts)
187. I do too
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:13 AM
Aug 2015

But the little pups as my husband started calling them this weekend - they are on social media. I'm pretty much out there inviting them to join DU and help us to help them.

By that - I mean older African Americans and those who are our strong allies -

We aren't engaged on the social media platforms. But we can help them. If they need my help - I will be there as much as I am for Generation Forward (the O'Malley supporting Super Pac - I can give money to since I tapped out my O'Malley contributions for the primary cycle). If it's my time, my presence at a rally, etc. etc. I'm here.

sheshe2

(83,940 posts)
219. JFC!
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:27 PM
Aug 2015

heaven05? Is that why they wrote me to say they are leaving and may or may not be back?

I am hating this place with a passion. Will I leave, hell no I plan to double down.

I am so very sorry AA is being targeted, Number23. Sunday proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt and it coincides with the anniversary of Michael Brown's murder.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
48. The problem is the huge reward for getting posts hidden.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:12 PM
Aug 2015

When the owners of DU re-reformed version 3 by going to 7 person juries and up to 90 day time-outs for 5 hides they created a bounty hunting situation. There is nearly zero cost to alerting and there is a potentially huge benefit. Consequently, and entirely predictably, people alert on their opponents for every possible offense, framing alerts to coax hides from naive jurors, hoping to silence their opponents via the draconian time-outs.

The system needs to be modified to reduce the incentive for bounty hunting.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
53. banned forever? or timeout? I didn't know Bravenak lost posting privledges
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:22 PM
Aug 2015

I don't like to see anyone 'silenced' for those type of comments. I also don't care for any posts, or headlines that mention skin color at all.

If its timeout, how long is it?

GP6971

(31,222 posts)
62. Her status is listed as
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:40 PM
Aug 2015

"Flagged for Review"

Late October if her posting privileges aren't revoked.

 

cpwm17

(3,829 posts)
57. A very low percentage of her posts have been hidden in the last 90 days
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:31 PM
Aug 2015

Posts Hidden by Jury (last 90 days)

Posts hidden by Jury: 7
Total posts: 3008
Percentage of posts hidden: 0.23%

This system creates a disincentive for productive DU'ers to engage in controversial topics. Even if you didn't agree with everything they say, she, and others that engage in controversial topics, are the driving forces that keep DU interesting. Perhaps the total number of posts that lead to timeouts should increase with more productive DU'ers.

Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

Gman

(24,780 posts)
79. This is exactly why I won't serve on a jury
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:25 PM
Aug 2015

It's all bogus and subject to the latest group think. And group think is a major distinguishing characteristic of DU.

As such, white Bernie supporters purged a Black because they didn't want to hear what he had to say about being Black. The consistent undeviated path is for Bernie supporters to tell Blacks what they should think, what they should and should not say and how to act.

Bernie supporters just don't get it. They don't like being told what they don't want to hear anymore than AA's do. But because white Sanders supporters cannot be told they are wrong by a Black, Bravenak is gone. This place is anything BUT the Democratic Underground. I hope Skinner gets a handle on this real quick or else DU will have a rap that sticks that it's a haven for group think white liberals who exclude the Black message. That is, beyond the AA community.

And I'm as white as they are.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
81. The ugly truth
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:35 PM
Aug 2015

The fact is, the libertarians, aka "This whole fight is about letting us do what we wanna d, but screw anyone else but me, especially YOU" crowd have INFESTED this party. They have infested DU, and they are right now in their respective Caves and discussion areas bragging about how they are changing the game. If Skinner tries to muzzle them, they wave their checkbooks, and Skinner realizes he better make sure they get the best slice of cake, and that he better tolerate them even as they piss on the floor and flip him the finger. That is why there is both that site that rhymes with "percussionist" and an all for Hillary site, for the people that, unlike the African American board, will simply ban you and make sure you do not mix with them, unlike the AA forum, which seems to have a sign on it that says "white people can come and yell at black people here."

Now, for those AA's that vote for Hillary, I will not disrespect you, especially as Nader's failed experiment reminds me that not voting for the Democrat is exactly what they want. However, I do hope Hillary rewards the loyalty that is being shown to her, instead of listening to her advisers who are already planning business as normal (or worse) come February 2017.

To those who come here to troll and yell at Black people, I say this, I know you would never tolerate people coming to the Bernie and Hillary boards and acting so rude. Your actions speak loud and clear.

Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Original post)

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
98. You have a right to dislike her. I categorically reject the fact she was silenced.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 05:05 PM
Aug 2015
“If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”


― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #98)

Cha

(297,772 posts)
156. Bravenak has been a strong voice for African Americans on DU.. those who can't handle the truth
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:11 PM
Aug 2015

wanted her silenced.

You can shut your eyes and put your fingers in your ears.. but the truth is still going on.. that's not going to change.

Your loss.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
120. For the sisters of #BLM, for LiberalStalwart, bravenak and now apparently heaven05
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 06:04 PM
Aug 2015

(Even though heaven isn't a Soul Sister)



Lyric snip:

To my sisters I communicate
With the bass and tone
Thru speakers and the microphone
Cause I'm tired of America dissin' my sisters
(For example, like they dissed Tawana)
And they try to say she's a liar
My people don't believe it
But even now they're getting higher
Of the feeling inspiration
We must know that in this nation
Every single generation
(They teach us how to diss our sisters)
Stange as you say, I say revolution
Need for change brings on revolution
The great book just look see solution

...They disrespected mama and treated her like dirt
America took her, reshaped her, raped her

Nope, it never made the paper
Beat us, mated us
Made us attack our woman in black
So I said sophisticated B, don't be one
Not to head the warning crack of dawn
Or is it the dawn of crack?
Stop the talk they say, but
We talk and say whats right or wrong
Some say we wasting time singin' a song
But why is it that we're many different shades
Black woman's privacy invaded years and years
You cannot count my mama's tears
It's not the past but the future's
What she fears
Strong we be strong
The next generation
It's what not who we are facin'
The fingers pointed to us in our direction
The blind state of mind needs correction
Word to the mother we tighten connection
To be a man you need no election
This generation generates a new attitude
Sister to you we should not be rude
So we come together
And make 'em all say
Damn this generation

JI7

(89,276 posts)
124. many of these loved calling the president a piece of shit. support the rapist assange
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 06:45 PM
Aug 2015

And snowden who wrote about shooting people.

And now they are outraged . And it's the worst injustice ever.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
128. DU's self proclaimed high priests of liberalism
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:13 PM
Aug 2015

... don't like being questioned.

They get to decide who the sinners are (Obama, Clinton, anyone who supports them), and who the saints are (flavor of the month).

Cha

(297,772 posts)
153. that's a bitter laugh.. "DU's self proclaimed high priests of liberalism..
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:02 PM
Aug 2015
don't like being questioned."

I see this boomeranging on their fake "liberal" asses one of these fine days.

mcar

(42,388 posts)
155. All this
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:10 PM
Aug 2015

I can't even with this nonsense. It is completely bizarre. Silencing good DUers ... and for what?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
132. Complete bullshit.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:28 PM
Aug 2015

The alerts have been flying like crazy, I've been on three juries today, I think. And the crap that should be hidden is flying proudly.

JustAnotherGen

(31,924 posts)
134. That's why I didn't alert on the snotty words back here
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:34 PM
Aug 2015

Just gave her the boot! You want to be snotty - go to the Sanders group and grave dance there.

And there is nothing that should have been hidden in what heaven posted

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
140. Sorry I'm replying so slowly, DU is loading like molasses today!
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:55 PM
Aug 2015

The block feature is my favorite thing about DU3, for real. I wish I had it in my real life.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
135. calling bernie supporters nazis was egregious.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:37 PM
Aug 2015

"his supporters represent, a very disguised 'brown shirt mentality'. Seen it before in history"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1171441

you support that shit? Seriously?

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
138. And how are you Warren?
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:48 PM
Aug 2015

I'm fine.

I think we are shedding an alarming number of Black posters on DU, for a fight that centers around the purported anti-racism efforts of a politician.

Don't snarl at me about what I do and don't support, there is a metric shitload of racist bullshit on this website today being egged on and encouraged. The fact that you would noodle your way all the way down this thread to chew me out? Hilarious.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
166. Well, I don't like to get negative with posters in here.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:57 PM
Aug 2015

It isn't my space. But there's a serious forest/trees problem when someone can't step back and say "Whoa, this website is really running through Black posters like crazy!"

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
139. Is it not enough to stifle AA voices
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:51 PM
Aug 2015

in the main forums without having to follow them into this protected group to finish the job?

Just look at this thread, the poster makes a valid point.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
143. Well, they have now silenced several African American DUers haven't they?
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 08:11 PM
Aug 2015

How many African American DUers have gotten timeouts in the last few months for being too outspoken against Bernie?

If you wanted to disprove a brown shirt mentality, that isn't the way to go about it.

It's like Trump reacting to questions about misogyny by claiming Kelly was on her period.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
185. No, that's not what I said. But while you are at it, see post #174 below.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:50 AM
Aug 2015

You can't even perform hosting duties and tell people what is not permitted in a group without some Bernie supporters wanting to hide your post.

Once again, if this is the way you guys go about trying to disprove the accusation of brown shirt mentality, I can tell you that you are going about it the wrong way.

joshcryer

(62,277 posts)
173. Welcome to the fray.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:37 AM
Aug 2015

I should go get myself a hide just to be in solidarity with these people for speaking the truth.

DemocraticWing

(1,290 posts)
131. This is a loss for all of DU
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 07:26 PM
Aug 2015

Bravenak is a very good poster. I have enjoyed all of my interactions with her, both when we agreed and when we had (usually mild) disagreements. Anybody that can't see that Bravenak is a good, productive member of the DU community does not have the best intentions for the DU community.

There was once a "purge" of LGBT posters on DU. I really hope the recent events do not lead to a similar effect for African Americans. Without a large group of people of color, this would not be a Democratic message board.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
141. It would be really hard to support Bernie if he were the nominee now.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 08:07 PM
Aug 2015

He has been way too slow to figure out how to reach out to BLM.

And the fact that his supporters here suddenly don't like vigorous protests when they have supported it in virtually every other situation and have gone out of their way to hide the posts of several African American DU posters here to the point they have gotten lengthy timeouts makes me wonder if I could support Bernie or even vote for him at this point.

The killing and abuse of people of color by police is one of the most pressing problems today. To this point, you can't worry about income inequality if you are dead.

The arrogance and entitlement by far too many Bernie supporters, with him doing nothing to rectify this, makes him an unacceptable candidate and not just in the primary. This is NOT just on DU. Bernie supporters are attacking BLM on Twitter and have been doing so since Netroots.

If I am called to defend Bernie on TV in the future, let's just say that Bernie supporters are not going to like what I have to say.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
145. Steven, just give us a heads up before hand so we can all tune in
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 08:30 PM
Aug 2015
If I am called to defend Bernie on TV in the future, let's just say that Bernie supporters are not going to like what I have to say.

I would love to hear what you have to say.

Cha

(297,772 posts)
158. "People who screamed for years, "hold Pres Obama's feet to the fire" are now saying..
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 09:16 PM
Aug 2015
Nerdy Wonka
?@NerdyWonka People who screamed for years, "hold Pres. Obama's feet to the fire!" are now saying "why are you mean to Bernie?"

LMAO.

Pass the popcorn
.
Retweets
137 104Favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/08/09/rise-and-shine-1076/

I'm glad we're not going to have to even think about voting for BS.

OneGrassRoot

(22,920 posts)
191. I'm so conflicted...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:35 AM
Aug 2015

(Edit to add my apologies that I'm not familiar with what all led to Bravenak being suspended. I've only very recently been reading DU again. The silencing of PoC wouldn't surprise me in the least.)

I don't agree with any Bernie supporters and others who are denigrating and distancing themselves from #BlackLivesMatter based on two disruptive protests (protests are supposed to disrupt). Many feel it isn't fair that Bernie was targeted over any GOP candidate, but that's life -- and that's politics. Bernie is a big boy. How he responds to it is more important than anything, imho. (I happen to believe there are logistical reasons for this and that #BLM will have a presence at many, many political events from now on.)

As someone who is leaning toward Bernie, I happen to think this is GOOD. Much as you said in your GD OP, Steve. It's keeping this issue front and center. FINALLY. Now, I understand we all view things differently based on our individual life experiences and perspectives, but even though Bernie could have handled both Netroots and the first Seattle rally better, I don't think he has handled it badly. I think he is evolving and putting racial justice more front and center, much as Washington State Senator Pramila Jayapal said in her FB message yesterday:


But more than that, he is someone who has fought for so many of the threads that connect our movements. He has to learn to talk about racism in that way, to connect his ideas on education, economics, incarceration, and race. As I said when I had the honor of introducing him at his evening rally, he is in a unique position to do so. And we are in a unique moment where we crave that leadership in a Presidential campaign. I told him in my conversation with him that he needed to talk head on about institutional racism--he said he agreed and he would do it in the evening. And he did--to an enormous, cheering crowd of 15,000 people.

That's a huge platform for our messages. There's more to do and learn for sure, but is any one of us perfect? The most we can ask for is for someone who listens and cares deeply, who is trustworthy, and who will do what he says. I know I learned a lot in my campaign and I will continue to grow from listening to people's voices. I believe Bernie Sanders is growing too--and I hope (and yes, believe) that we'll look back on this and see his emergence as a leader who brings our movements for economic, racial and social justice together in a powerful way.



I'm thinking back to the times I have judged a candidate based on his/her supporters, mainly Tea Party people. In those instances, the candidates were egging on the racist, bigoted, ugliness. The candidate was, for the most part, in alignment with the crowds' views.

But Bernie isn't racist or bigoted as far as I can tell (not that I'm saying he has many followers who ARE). He has a lot more to learn for sure now that he's on a national stage, but I do see him shifting toward a focus on racial justice. He's definitely moving in the right direction for those of us fighting for racial, social and economic justice. (I admit that I'd prefer a black, gay, Muslim woman be the candidate who carries the message of justice, but she isn't here...yet.)

Hopefully he will offer a very specific platform regarding criminal justice reform soon, if he hasn't done so already. That is very specifically what #BLM is asking of these candidates. (Honestly, I'm not following any candidates' every step at this point.)

Now, as for his supporters, here are my thoughts:

I don't think it's helpful to judge a group of people based on the actions of a small percentage, whether it is Bernie supporters no longer supporting #BLM (and some actively dissing it), or #BLM supporters being against Bernie Sanders and all of his supporters.

This is an instance where focusing on the candidate's message, which isn't reflective some of his/her supporters' actions and messages, may be wisest. This all gets too nasty on DU, just as it did in the 2008 primaries. I have to keep reminding myself that DU is usually not reflective of the larger citizenry.

I admit that I have personally witnessed and been surprised by the number of my friends (outside of DU; I haven't engaged here enough lately to really have a good feel for anyone any more) who support Bernie yet seemed willing to throw #BLM under the bus after Seattle. In fact, I've had the thought that, given how quickly and aggressively they voiced their denunciation, it does feel as though they were waiting for a reason to do so. And these are people who I previously thought were aware of the state of white privilege in this country and why the message of Black Lives Matter is critically important. People are literally dying every day because of the color of their skin. I get the frustration by the AA Group in getting white DUers who truly feel they are liberal/progressive to also see their often subconscious bias and unnecessary defensiveness. That whole white fragility thing.


So, I don't know. I'm going to keep paying close attention to not only Bernie's message, but his supporters so that I can get a feel for his base. I consider myself in his base but, again, I absolutely support the message of #BLM, even if it manifests in a way that is too messy or uncomfortable for some people. I hope there are more of me out there than not. Even if there aren't, I am going to try not to let that affect how I'm perceiving Bernie's message and platform. The same holds true for the other candidates, btw. I want to see a lot of diversity in all of those crowds and for the candidates to be putting racial justice front and center in a solid way with a clear plan for how they would act upon it.

This MLK message (per riversedge on a GD thread) is spot on, imho.






 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
212. Agreed ...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:59 AM
Aug 2015
The arrogance and entitlement by far too many Bernie supporters, with him doing nothing to rectify this, makes him an unacceptable candidate and not just in the primary. This is NOT just on DU. Bernie supporters are attacking BLM on Twitter and have been doing so since Netroots.


I wrote awhile back about a gathering I attended of Black professionals, all of whom are politically and socially active. One of the consensus comments made was, it is difficult to think about working with Bernie supporters, as it is; they will be intolerable in their arrogance, should Bernie gain the Democratic nomination.
 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
164. Some of those hides are terrible
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:13 PM
Aug 2015

Borderline censorship. And she's lost for three months because her fifth hide was back on July 23.

Big loss for the forum

Lil Missy

(17,865 posts)
165. How disingenuous to suggest bravenek was shut down because he/she is non-white.
Sun Aug 9, 2015, 10:48 PM
Aug 2015

The same rules apply to everyone. And believe it or not, most people never get any hides!

One hide may be a bad break - 2 a fluke, but you have to be doing something wrong to get 5 or more.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
216. "The same rules apply to everyone. And believe it or not, most people never get any hides! "
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:18 PM
Aug 2015
" How disingenuous to suggest bravenek was shut down because he/she is non-white.
The same rules apply to everyone. And believe it or not, most people never get any hides! One hide may be a bad break - 2 a fluke, but you have to be doing something wrong to get 5 or more."




It has nothing to do with bravenak's hue and her deigning to run afoul of Democratic Underground orthodoxy.


In this very thread a host of this group got a hide for asking an unwelcome guest to leave the group:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/118720489




I find your attack on my character, calling me disingenuous, deeply...deeply...deeply offensive.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
218. I will respond to my own thread because I am still steaming
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:05 PM
Aug 2015

My buddy used to work in the Human Resources department for the city of Orlando. One of his responsibilities was to look for patterns of discrimination in hiring and firing. When a minority group was less likely to be hired or more likely to be fired there was prima facie evidence of discrimination and the burden was on the city to rebut that assertion. Just a cursory review of the hides the African American posters and their allies here have accumulated suggest certain posters from certain groups are being singled out for disparate treatment.

All one has to do to test my hypothesis is click on their profile page and see the number of hides they have accumulated.


slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
170. "... And look at those white ass crowds. Just look.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:48 AM
Aug 2015

"bravenak This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

130. Hillary is not doing those type of events.

And she trys to neet with members of the group personally and makes a big to do over offering her full support.
Nobody is going to assuage the feelings of Bernie fans. They don't asuage ours, so why do they expect anyhing? They have been nasty and rude for a while now. That is probably why Bernie is the ONLY one still getting heckled. They fans of the other two do not act like that. Omally fans did not race atound to find enough white voices to drown out the black voices. That is all Bernie folks have been doing lately (not all, but enough that I find it shocking). Even tea party folks were nicer to me personally. That is scary. And look at those white ass crowds. Just look. That shit scares me too. Not only are they white but they seem to hate black protestirs and talk crap about them all the live long day. It scares me. I don't want a crowd like that having power over me.
A Jury voted 4-3 to hide this post on Sat Aug 8, 2015, 10:12 PM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."



bravenak This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

"75. Not all. But I'm sure some were. I notice it in his supporters.

The only supoorters in this campaign season to constantly malign black activist and harass black folks are his. Talk down to us. Whitesplain black poverty to black academics. Expect us to genuflect. Really. I notice it constantly. They barrage black people with MLK quotes like we're such idiots that we can be swayed by quotes and promises of retribution if we do not behave. Yep. I got my SNOOTFULL of the white supremacists supporters. They were mistaken to apologize but they probably got harassed into it by white people.
A Jury voted 5-2 to hide this post on Sun Aug 9, 2015, 12:24 AM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate."


What scares me are those on DU that continue to drive a wedge among members based on the color of a person's skin, that is not productive IMHO. Bravenak shut herself down.

Who does this benefit, not the majority of people IMO.

I served on a later jury and voted to let it stand, juror #3.


"AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message

On Sun Aug 9, 2015, 01:54 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Yeah. Some are. Not surprising looking at his crowds.nt

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1171059

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

he is claiming Bernies supporters are white supremacists just because of the way they look.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 9, 2015, 02:12 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If this poster wants to go on record stating that many Sanders supporters are white supremacists then let everyone see this poster's view, although I disagree and believe that driving this racial divide does not benefit the majority of people. Unfortunately some people want others to pay more attention to the color of a person's skin and not their views on important issues, that is a mistake IMHO.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Based on one post, no. But based on the pattern in the poster's comments here I think it's time for a cooling off period.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I believe in free speech. Also, the slander is generic. It doesn't hurt any person in particular. The comment is wrong, of course, but not bannable wrong. And it is informative in the sense of revealing something about the commenter.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future."


lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
171. Bravenak is a dear online friend.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:57 AM
Aug 2015

Heaven05 is another poster who I admire and respect very much. I'm saddened that their voices have been curtailed here. I've found them both compassionate, smart and witty. It's hard for me to put into words how much this pisses me off, as I respect both their contributions here so much. I would often come here just to catch up with bravenak and we would sometimes laugh and laugh. That's a really healthy thing. In addition to sharing thoughts with online friends here, laughter is my favorite thing here. I value and cherish this group so much. It's my favorite place here at DU. I feel I've gotten to 'know' each person who posts here frequently. And recognize each as a unique and talented individual person, with great accomplishments, wonderful insight. Not just as some generic blip on a computer screen.

Please don't come into this group to trash or criticize posters here. It's disrespectful. Don't alert on or vote to hide posts here that are supportive of a group host or active participant here. Please read a lot of threads here before posting here. Please learn from our black brothers and sisters here. You don't have to agree with every single thing said. But if you don't agree, you don't necessarily have to post to chime in with your contrary opinion, particularly if it's already been expressed by a bunch of posts similar to yours. Allow people the room to breathe. Room to express themselves. If you're on a jury please consider posts if losing that poster's voice is something you really want. We cannot and should not be an echo-chamber here. This group is an oasis. Please read a lot here. It's a really unique and special group. In my opinion, the best DU has to offer!

joshcryer

(62,277 posts)
174. Number23 got locked out of this thread for doing host duties.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:42 AM
Aug 2015

Literally that's all they got a hidden post for, telling someone this was a group and not a forum.

What a crock of shit.

ananda

(28,879 posts)
182. The whole moderation/jury system needs to be changed!
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:15 AM
Aug 2015

See, anyone can join DU and alert posts and be on a jury.

You get enough rightie trolls and ....

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
183. When I learned of this, I went and looked at all of the hidden posts.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:49 AM
Aug 2015

None of them should have been hidden, in my opinion. I was not called to any of those juries, but would have voted to leave every one of those posts.

Something is wrong here, and it's something ugly. Apparently there is an ongoing attempt to shut down discussion and remove some PoC from making their opinions known.

Disgusting!

valerief

(53,235 posts)
186. In other words, Business As Usual by the paid disruptors brought to you by Koch
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 09:56 AM
Aug 2015

Brother/Walton money.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
188. I doubt that very much.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:22 AM
Aug 2015

These attempts to silence black voices are coming from somewhere altogether different, I believe.

valerief

(53,235 posts)
193. Sorry, but I'm not trying to be difficult. I just don't get your point.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:38 AM
Aug 2015

I still enjoy your posts and will continue to rec the ones I understand.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,716 posts)
194. I would respond in kind but I don't want to get a hide because the jury system is tainted.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:39 AM
Aug 2015

I would remind you that you in a protected group!

valerief

(53,235 posts)
195. Funny, I never look at the group. I usually respond to posts I see in Latest Threads.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:42 AM
Aug 2015

After my last hide (which made no sense, btw), I stopped participating in juries. I know that's self-defeating, but I can't fight every paid disruptor on this site. Too many of them.

wyldwolf

(43,870 posts)
209. This 'paid Koch/Walton disruptor' shtick is getting real old.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:35 AM
Aug 2015

Must 'progressives' fall back to that tired meme?

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
196. Not only that, keep in mind that BLM is literally fighting a life or death campaign. Folks are dying
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:42 AM
Aug 2015

actually, excuse me, people are being murdered by the uniformed representatives of the state, and white progressives on DU are hiding the posts of BLM supporters because they got a little rude or heated in their criticism of those folks' sacred cow.

That's how disgusting this is.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
197. Exactly. On the very anniversary of Michael Brown's
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 10:48 AM
Aug 2015

assassination by cop, attacks on those who insist that such things end are truly disgusting. The death toll climbs, but goes unaddressed by some people running for office. When people demand that it be addressed, the "outrage" at those who are insisting that PoC not be slain by the state emerges.

I have changed my mind about whom to support in the Primaries due to this.

Quayblue

(1,045 posts)
202. exactly
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 11:07 AM
Aug 2015

Some thousands of people get screamed at and that's more concerning. I honestly think BLM was never supported by most of these folks to begin with. Too much concern about black folks lives, not enough attention for them. They just needed the one straw to break the back; this latest episode was enough to definitely "choose" the side they were on in the first place.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
213. To be fair, it's just not PoC being "targeted" ...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 12:03 PM
Aug 2015

white DUers that supports PoC making our opinions known are at risk, as well.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
222. I saw your OP ... Expect to be "Bravenaked" ...
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:17 PM
Aug 2015

(he, he, he ... I didn't think making her name a verb would have that result ... he, he, he ...)

Some here think this conduct is limited to, and effecting, only DU and the internet ... they couldn't be more wrong!

I wrote about a recent gathering of 50+ Black Professionals, who are both politically and socially active. One consensus thought was a question of with the arrogance and condescendence of Bernie supporter towards African-Americans, now, during the primaries; can one imagine the level, should Bernie prevail as the Democratic Party's nominee ... once they, and their conduct, is seen as validated?

I don't think it'll be pretty for the Democratic Party, as they all agreed they would vote for Bernie; but, they also, really, questioned whether they could/would work along side of his supporters.

MineralMan

(146,336 posts)
225. LOL! At my age, it would take true bravery to be naked.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:29 PM
Aug 2015

It's not just DU, of course. What I'm seeing doesn't bode well for Sanders' campaign at all.

I won't be trashing Senator Sanders on DU. He's not the problem. Nor will I be making attacks on any individual DUers. I don't do that.

My highest priority in 2016 is to get a Democrat elected as President, with the secondary goal of regaining a majority in the Senate. It's a long-range approach that has been what I've always done.

I'm bailing from support of Sanders, because I think his followers are going to help ensure that he cannot possibly win in the General Election. Sanders is not the problem. He is a good man who would support all of our goals. The problem is making sure that no Republican wins as President. That, to me, is the overriding goal in all of this. Republicans will most certainly not govern in a way that furthers the cause of PoC or anyone else.

I'm not concerned about getting attacked on DU. Not one bit.

cstanleytech

(26,331 posts)
223. Can you clear that up a bit?
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 02:23 PM
Aug 2015

What part is ridiculous? That everyone including hosts have to obey the ToS of the DU?
Or are you saying that the jury system is ridiculous for the DU? If your problem is with the jury system then suggest some ways improve it, I am sure skinner would be willing to listen if you have some actual good ideas that would improve the system.
Personally I think the system works ok for the most part, I will grant you that its not perfect but it does help alot to filter out posters whos intent is purely to cause problems on the DU.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
227. I was referring to people using the jury system to specifically target people.
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 03:10 PM
Aug 2015

The system's inconsistent. That being said , I really don't know how Skinner would improve upon it.There are always going to be people who hide something because they don't like the poster .

cstanleytech

(26,331 posts)
228. I thought it tracked who alerts and flags it for review if to many are detected?
Mon Aug 10, 2015, 06:20 PM
Aug 2015

But even if it doesnt do that dont people just have to use common sense and follow the ToS to avoid getting a post hide?

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
231. Sorry I missed this thread.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 08:13 PM
Aug 2015

Well said.
The grave dancing is pathetic.
Bravenak is one of my favorite posters here.
I'm sick to fucking death of the alert stalking, especially of Black DU members.

Raine1967

(11,589 posts)
233. I already miss her voice and want her back.
Thu Aug 13, 2015, 09:20 PM
Aug 2015

and when she returns: I have her back.

I don't like what I am seeing, and I know I am not alone. Something is not right, indeed.

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