Question.

[boston bean]

I'm sorry to have to do this, really. But maybe I am doing something wrong and you will be kind enough to let me know.

I posted this article in GDP this morning:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251419087

A direct response to that OP was posted shortly thereafter, which states that posting this is feigning concern and ultimately race baiting, ie s"tarting a flame war using race as a fulcrum":

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251419178

I am a white woman, who is sensitive to social justice issues, however I am an imperfect human being.

So, I ask you, if you feel that my posting the article was race baiting, and if as a white woman, I was stepping over the line in posting the article.

I will happily delete this if members in this group do not feel it fits the SOP of this group.

[OilemFirchen]

1. You posted an article from a respected publication.

You didn't editorialize. Only recently has that simple act become an offense. Asking questions, no matter how benign, is also now an attack. There is a tent of transparent skin covering this website.

Here are the jury results of that OP, BTW. Compare them to 1SBM's hide:

On Wed Jul 1, 2015, 07:01 AM you sent an alert on the following post:

Is it "race-baiting" to feign concern for Bernie's support among African-Americans?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251419178

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

"Race-baiting" as it pertains to minorities lodging legitimate concerns is a right-wing construct. Applying the term to minorities who "feign" concern is deplorable and has no place here. There is a useful discussion to be had on this subject. This disgusting accusation is not helpful to that discussion.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Wed Jul 1, 2015, 07:07 AM, and voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Dancing on a razors edge, some one is bound to get cut. But where exactly do you say "stop".
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Go ahead and make your point in the discussion. Bernie Sanders record on race is pretty clear.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I disagree with alerter. Voice your opinion in the thread rather than trying to censor the OP's opinion. This is a discussion board.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Divisive politics is the name of the game for quite a few on both sides of the political spectrum. If other members can express concerns about racial issues and Sanders (even when they are flamebait), I think it is more than OK to allow a post to ask if some of these types types of threads are in fact race baiting. As a POC, I am fine with this post.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This wasn't aimed at the AA group as I read it.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you.

[Spazito]

2. Wow, just wow...

If that jury decision doesn't say it all, I don't know what does.

There was a time when that OP would have been removed but that time is long past sadly.

[boston bean]

3. only one vote to hide it.

And in stark contrast to how this community votes in other cases.

Thank you for answer. Much appreciated!

[luvspeas]

4. I took a look at the thread...

I would say that posting an article in and of itself is just posting an article. You might want to take a look at your responses to the comments and see if that is where you might be having problems.

There is just generally way way to much debate around here lately that leads no where. After a while your post appears to be a thinly veiled attempt to discredit Sanders in support of some other candidate. People are getting mad around here in general over the sniping and convert bullshit to discredit one of two very strong candidates for the democratic nomination for president. People do not like it when they think you are using a culture or a demographic that a lot of people (not all and not collectively) on DU seem to care greatly about only when it serves to provide a jab at something unrelated to the issues affecting the group referenced.

My point is that you do seem to have another reason for your posts than concern for POC being represented by a particular candidate. You seem to have a greater concern for one-upping a particular candidate than you do for seeing that a community's representation is taken into consideration.

It's pretty apparent by your response to the jury that you are way way way more concerned with being right (and you already seem to think you are right) than you are with imparting information. sorry.

[boston bean]

5. That is really good food for thought.

I will take that into consideration.

Thank you for the response.

[OilemFirchen]

6. Showing solidarity with PoC is meant to "discredit" a candidate?

There concerns are "unrelated" to their "issues"?

A few more rules to add to the list.

[luvspeas]

8. these are hard issues to address so allow me to provide more detail...

The article in question is about Sanders dearth of support within a certain demographic. Of course, that in and of itself is a concern related to that demographic's social issues (i.e. being heard, being considered, being represented). The problem comes in to play when the poster or others on the forum use the concern to further the agenda of a different candidate without being more concerned about the need for a constituency's representation.

So to put it bluntly...Bernie sucks and that means Hillary's great because POC like her better. No mention of why it is important for POC to be heard and represented.

[OilemFirchen]

12. RIght.

My point is that you do seem to have another reason for your posts than concern for POC being represented by a particular candidate. You seem to have a greater concern for one-upping a particular candidate than you do for seeing that a community's representation is taken into consideration.

The article, for the thousandth time, addresses concerns that the Sanders' camp itself has with the way this issue has been addressed. That seems like a legitimate discussion.

But that's just me.

[luvspeas]

15. but unfortunately the discussion never really goes that way...

it always seems to dissolve into a back and forth about one candidate being better than the other to the point where everybody's insulting one another.

That's why I said posting the article in itself is fine. It's the discussion that takes place after around here that's a problem.

[BainsBane]

7. Yes, but when members of that demographic have raised those same questions

They have been shouted down, implied they were the racists, and had posts hidden.

[boston bean]

9. maybe I am a bit to vociferous

with my defense of the community, where it comes off as speaking for them.

It is something I need to take into consideration.

I asked this question in all sincerity and will listen and take to heart all responses.

[luvspeas]

10. I've seen that

I haven't been on in a while and so I am just discovering this. One thing that happens almost unconsciously is that people refuse to believe it.

But the entire problem appears to me to be more about people wanting to discredit Hillary or Sanders by any means necessary. It's getting pretty crazy and the lurkers on the right must be laughing all the way to the diebold machines.

[BainsBane]

11. Well, if that is "the entire problem"

The Sanders discreditors have a LONG way to go to catch up. I disagree, however, that the political fortunes of politicians outweigh concerns about racial inclusion. I actually see the discussions of individual politicians as symptomatic of deeper divisions among the left and American society more generally.

[luvspeas]

13. I hear you that it's not the entire problem

that was a poor choice of words. I think I meant that the core of the problem here (with the problem being DU has become a cesspool of sniping about "HillBern"-I just made that up). I think you are absolutely spot on that inclusion is a huge problem in political process. Super huge. I just think that this overwhelming tsumani of concern for HillBern's support of marginalized groups (or lack there of) is being used more to justify the candidate and not due to an outpouring of concern for the issue you bring up better than I did.

[BainsBane]

20. Yep, that I agree with. 100 percent

[randys1]

14. Yes, when AfAm express concerns they are usually told that those concerns are not

legitimate.

Then if they decide to only discuss it within their "group", certain folks follow them there and censor them in juries.

God forbid if a white guy like me tries to help or support them, as I have been targeted as well and assume I dont have long to live here.

[luvspeas]

16. oops.

Oops. It sounded to me like you were saying that you followed people into the AA form and they didn't like it even when you were trying to help. I am so sorry. I think this is why these conversations are really hard for everybody. they require a bit of trust and the ability to restate and say you (I) fucked up. I do stand by my final statement:

That might not make you liked by anyone and no one might support you but you would be doing the right thing.

[randys1]

17. What? I am here all the time, did you misread my post? I post in AfAm all the time

I followed nobody anywhere, they are following me and us here

[luvspeas]

18. read again..yeah I did misread...

I thought you said you followed them. sorry.

[BainsBane]

19. Or that THEY

are racist for even asking.

[randys1]

21. So much is in our way as liberals. Teaparty cares about two things only, pocketbook

and hate; they need to vote for someone like Reagan or Cruz etal who tell them it is normal to hate all non white christians.

Even though Cruz is not white, is he? I forget.

Anyway, on the so called left there are those who give lip service to social issues but really are just libertarians who also mostly care about pocketbook issues.

So we are fighting against this shit on both sides.

Then there is the "Woman Problem" - sure, some Women have acquiesced to the "stronger sex", aka men-many of whom are assholes and not at all stronge; but the other Women who wont just sit back and do nothing, who want rights to their own bodies, etc. They are a problem for some.

So Women, some of them, and white liberals like myself, are in a minority with minorities, it seems.

[randys1]

22. I just want a safe place to discuss rampant racism in America and my two

political favorites, Hillary and Bernie.

Actually, reading about O'Malley, I like him too.

But in some places, discussing positive things about anybody but Bernie is simply going to make you a target, big time.

I love Bernie, but I need a safe place to discuss that.