African American
Related: About this forumQuestion on how best to deal with some recent posts
There are a few people pushing hard to dismantle the movement that is finally addressing racism in our society. I am sure you've seen them. Now, even posting nearly four year old videos of horrific killing of a white man, without anything indicating how old it is or the public outcry at the time.
Every time a post goes up about or related to Black Lives Matter, something goes up to take away from it.
It negates the every day, constant struggle of people of color. It minimizes the facts that a black man in this country is 4x more likely to be shot by cops than a white man. It degrades the fact that to be 4x more likely, when black people are only approximately 12% of the population, that is an astronomically high percentage of abuse on black people and other people of color.
I don't know what is the best way to address this. I have not commented, but once, on those posts. I and others have posted to contradict them. Others have responded on the posts, trying to explain what this does, almost always without it making a difference. I don't believe ignoring completely does any good. It is ignoring this subtle racism that has been part of the problem. I don't believe responding on the post is good because it brings attention to the post.
It amazes me that people on a liberal, progressive site don't get it. Unlike the trolls on twitter and Facebook, who are so overt that they only help the cause, these are the kind of things that hurt.
How do you think this should be handled?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Or are they just smarter trolls?
marym625
(17,997 posts)But I don't know. Sigh.
JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)They are very good trolls.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I hope not.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)yet I feel that people who care really won't be distracted or influenced by the discounters, deniers and people throwing in obfuscatory BS to muddy the waters. People who really care, think. And it doesn't take much thinking to detect the agenda of people like you mentioned. I will answer them to let them know their game is known, but I never take their bullshit personally, they are only fooling themselves and others that are looking to be fooled. Just my opinion. How to handle them? STICK TO YOUR PRINCIPLE AND THE TRUTH. It defeats them every time.
marym625
(17,997 posts)I believe that is the best way to handle it. But I don't think they understand, or at least admit, the defeat. Unfortunately.
Thank you very much
heaven05
(18,124 posts)in people like myself, you and others JUST letting them know their BS is apparent. They don't have the ability to recognize BS because they have fooled themselves, long ago, into believing their 'cause' is right. Spew BS long enough, it will start being the truth to the BS spewer. Let them go to their grave believing what they may because you are right, they are incapable of admitting their ignorance. The truth is ALWAYS the winner and the truth AIN'T relative...........
marym625
(17,997 posts)Thank you
ellenrr
(3,864 posts)that there are many people on here (du) and I hope that my comment might open the mind of some person who is not totally biased.
for the one who is totally biased, I don't think that anything gets by the barriers to truth.
Number23
(24,544 posts)It means alot.
And I was absolutely thrilled by the epic ass whupping given to one of the main agitators who exhibits exactly the type of behavior that you referred to in your OP. Short of getting them to change their minds or even better, shut the hell up, large numbers of DUers letting them know that we see their shit and are tired of dealing with it was IMMENSELY satisfying.
marym625
(17,997 posts)That means a lot.
I was amazed that one actually said that they see the light and it's wrong to have tried to usurp "Black Lives Matter." Unfortunately, just today (or maybe last night) they did it again. Smdh
Looks like someone else finally stfu. Hallelujah!
marym625
(17,997 posts)Not a beat down, though did that again a couple times today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025926869
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)intentionally try to piss you off, and know when to say goodbye to whatever back-and-forth argument they keep dragging on for days...I really fell into this trap during the Zimmerman thing, but never again..
Also learn the universal trolling playbook, so you can spot these tactics earlier and save your sanity...Because we don't have dedicated mods anymore trolls have been running unchecked the past few years...Don't bother trying to alert on them, because even when they get banned (which takes forever now), they come right back in an hour with an alt account...I got one of the Zimmerman trolls banned probably 20-30 times until I gave up -- He was really easy to spot since all his posts and talking points were cut-and-paste...
Back in the early days of DU we'd regularly have an occasional "how to spot a troll" thread, but they became too brutal for some posters' delicate sensitivities...It's long past time to bring that practice back...
steve2470
(37,457 posts)maybe here in AA ?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)I feel white narcissists are diverting these actions both online and in real life by showing up and pushing their own agendas.
They are cheering but I feel they are just along for the ride. A ride they've not been forced to be on their entire lives the way black people have.
They hide behind the agony that's been inflicted, as it's not their blood that's been shed for centuries.
The voices we need to listen to and learn from are the ones who have the most at stake in this. And they don't need us to tell them anything.
JMHO.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)but searching DU-2 and DU-1.5 is kind of sketchy for some reason...I also hate looking deep in the archives, because I always see so many DU names I knew and loved in the past, and I still miss them today...
But these are a start:
Why the Trolls Will Always Win
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016104399
How to eat an Internet troll (Mark Morford)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024525837
4 Darknesses: Internet being Manipulated, Deceived by Western Intel Trolls by Juan Cole
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024561480
(Note: Even though this is a story about the NSA/GCHQ, at the end of the day all they're doing is using established trolling techniques to their advantage)
Professional Trolls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1438787
Who was the first tomb-stoned DUer that you can remember?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x7356577
OK, that was an epic troll. It deserves some sort of award
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025535599
If you don't think there is a strong concerted effort to Troll liberal sites like DU.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023896499
The 10 Kinds of Trolls You Will Encounter When Talking About Mike Brown
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025416337
DISCUSSION: When freepers spend time infiltrating DU, we win.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x626658
JustAnotherGen
(31,780 posts)Hekate
(90,540 posts)I'm following links tonight from an OP by Tobin: "I don't know what the hell is wrong with DU." Anyhow, one link leads to another, and I ended up here.
I also remember Ye Olde Days at DU, when troll-spotting was a sport, and ridding the site of them was a duty we all shared. Someone observed once that Internet trolling and its effects were an observable phenomenon, and that left unchecked, trolls ALWAYS degraded a site to their own level.
Wtf is wrong with DU, indeed.
randys1
(16,286 posts)I have learned abut the yellow highlight of most recent 10 posts and marking as read, but it should be easier.
There should be a button for newest posts, period. Since the last time you logged on, but I dont see one.
And I dont know what comes with a paid subscription here, but with juries loaded with rightwing racists lurking and waiting to be on a jury so they can hide any post of any liberal, why in the hell would I pay when they can kick me off so easily?
Unless you get special treatment on that when you pay.
What also makes me angry is you can find a dozen LARGE message boards for rightwing idiots, but almost none of any size for us.
There are more of us than there is them, what is wrong?
marym625
(17,997 posts)I'm learning this. I just never expect it here. But I have become pretty used to checking profiles before responding to something that seems off.
Thanks very much
yorkie77
(87 posts)I read a post by Jim Wallis on Huffington Post, but I could not respond on HP because I refuse to do Facebook. He is calling for churches to get involved, and my church did so yesterday.
But there are other places where the problem needs to be addressed too: colleges. Out and out racist remarks are indeed made at sporting events at elite colleges, and those comments are not always dealt with by the administration. How tragic is that. The students who may go on to become leaders in our society think they can yell racist remarks and that's ok?
Let's call for a movement to have colleges address this too, perhaps on MLK Day.
marym625
(17,997 posts)But a bunch of churches had movements here yesterday.
Berkeley had no issues with their first protest, which was largely white protesters. Saturday, when the Black Student Union marched, surprise, tear gas and rubber bullets.
I agree. We should try to start something. Great idea.
yorkie77
(87 posts)I am in NYC
The school with the racial incident I referred to is in the North East.
I heard there were lots of student protests last week in New York State over the recent decision, but we have a bigger problem than that. It is not just the grand jury decision.
This racial bias topic has lots of college students who are upset about racial issues who want frank discussions, but there are lots of other colleges that need to address these issues to open up the eyes of their students and administrations
What can we do? Can we get a groundswell to make frank discussions about racial bias happen on college campuses?
marym625
(17,997 posts)So I don't know. But I think what is going on in Berkeley may start some conversation. I hope.
JI7
(89,239 posts)i think many do think blacks and other minorities are being too sensitive at times. they wont say it outright but you recognize it from many things. and when you see the different standards given to different people.
Just amazing.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Hopefully this thread is helpful.
eta: hmm spoke too soon, pretty short thread which was locked
marym625
(17,997 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)marym625
(17,997 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)the past few days in sheshe's thread(s), especially points 1,2 and 3
1. They re-frame the OP's topic/debate
2. They post a series of straw man arguments
3. They use the "persecution" defense when called on their BS
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=3283700&mesg_id=3283736
steve2470
(37,457 posts)sheshe2
(83,637 posts)8. Rinse and repeat
8. Rinse and repeat
8. Rinse and repeat
8. Rinse and repeat
8. Rinse and repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
And Repeat And repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat And Repeat
ad nauseum~
the first one was so true back in the day. like 90% of the trolls always had some word associated with liberalism in their nickname: blue, liberal/progressive/democrat, peace, justice, etc etc.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Sort of a "I'm oppressed too" meme. Or a "I am so mad cause I have a stake in this too, we are being repressed too" thing.
They are unable to accept they have a stake in this just as human beings. That the outer cover which attracts so many bullets is such a small part of who we actually are.
The problem is that the outer cover does attract a disproportional amount of bullets, and beatings, and stops, and road side checks, and tickets, and taserings, and ad nauseam. This deserves an added level of awareness.
Black Lives Matter
Let's stop all of the killings, Let's pay special attention where the need is greatest.
XemaSab
(60,212 posts)but equating the struggle of women with the struggle of AA's with the struggle of the working class with the struggle of battery hens with the struggle of the 99% with the struggle of white men with the struggle of GLBTs with the struggle of immigrants...
The comparison breaks down.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)First deal with the struggles that kill.
Than with the ones that maim.
Then the ones that suppress.
Etc