Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumFast and Furious Scandal: New Details Emerge on How the U.S. Government Armed Mexican Drug Cartels
via ABC/Univision News (video at link):
http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/fast-furious-scandal-details-emerge-us-government-armed/story?id=17352694#.UGyCWNWwUbG
Sept. 30, 2012
On January 30, 2010, a commando of at least 20 hit men parked themselves outside a birthday party of high school and college students in Villas de Salvarcar, Ciudad Juarez. Near midnight, the assassins, later identified as hired guns for the Mexican cartel La Linea, broke into a one-story house and opened fire on a gathering of nearly 60 teenagers. Outside, lookouts gunned down a screaming neighbor and several students who had managed to escape. Fourteen young men and women were killed, and 12 more were wounded before the hit men finally fled.
Indirectly, the United States government played a role in the massacre by supplying some of the firearms used by the cartel murderers. Three of the high caliber weapons fired that night in Villas de Salvarcar were linked to a gun tracing operation run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), according to a Mexican army document obtained exclusively by Univision News.
Univision News identified a total of 57 more previously unreported firearms that were bought by straw purchasers monitored by ATF during Operation Fast and Furious, and then recovered in Mexico in sites related to murders, kidnappings, and at least one other massacre.
As part of Operation Fast and Furious, ATF allowed 1,961 guns to "walk" out of the U.S. in an effort to identify the high profile cartel leaders who received them. The agency eventually lost track of the weapons, and they often ended up in the hands of Mexican hit men , including those who ordered and carried out the attack on Salvarcar and El Aliviane, a rehabilitation center in Ciudad Juarez where 18 young men were killed on September 2, 2009....
I can't wait for the first apologist to tell us F&F was "well intentioned"...
moobu2
(4,822 posts)to supply guns to drug cartels do they could kill people?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Some big fish at ATF need to 'resign to spend more time with their families'/be fired over this.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)Where you find the most unusual "Democratic" posts.
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)You feel we should support gross incompetence just because the person who appointed you has a "D" after their name? Party before country should be your signature.
bongbong
(5,436 posts)> Party before country should be your signature.
We know that you put guns before all else, and your sig reflects that.
Reasonable_Argument
(881 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)bongbong
(5,436 posts)Did you ask me, in not so many words, if guns were like rainbow colored unicorns? Or was it a question about the flowers-n-candy nature of guns?
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)(1) BATF/AG wanted to trace where the guns were going in order to ensnare major traffickers, but were wholly incompetent for the task;
(2) BATF/AG wanted to demonstrate how "porous" the borders are regarding gun smuggling to Mexico in order to give "credence" to calls for shutting down or restricting gun sales near the border, something which the Administration has favored; and
(3) BATF/CIA others wanted to divert guns to La Sinola cartel, as the other cartels were on the brink of bargaining power with the Mexican government for power-sharing, hence arming the other side would somehow weaken the competition's hold on power.
The last one is speculation, as for now. The second is a possibility for reasons stated, and also because gun-controllers are in dire need of some kind of "victory" upon which they would inevitably push for more and more restrictions. The first is most likely the case.
I don't expect the AG to hold power after the election no matter the outcome. And he shouldn't.
former-republican
(2,163 posts)The report lacks any sense of reason . We are to believe that everything about the operation just made it shy of Holders desk.
He didn't know nothing.
Yet the rest of the justice dept knew about it.
Holder is either completely incompetent at his job or he lied.
Either way he should have been fired or brought up on charges.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Republicans have been screaming about the Univision piece. Since when do Republicans and their NRA buddies give a shit about Mexican teenagers?
Holder has been cleared by the Inspector General's report. There's nothing here, but that won't stop the cons from screaming.
Dooshbags.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I agree that the Pubbies ire is selective. However, this raises a question:
Why didn't more of "us" give a shit about these same Mexican teenagers?
A lot of people here were more interested in downplaying F&F than in addressing the bloodshed it helped enable.
"Failed sting" was the usual anodyne phrase, iirc...
DWC
(911 posts)Doesn't matter who did it.
Anyone who commits acts outside the Law is a criminal. In a Nation of Laws, that fact applies to all including elected and appointed officials whatever their political affiliation.
This video shows the horrors Fast & Furious has visited on citizens in Mexico. Those human beings don't claim Democrats or Republicans did this to them. They claim America did this to them - and they are right. This shame belongs to our entire Nation.
The Fast & Furious operation violated US Federal and International Laws and those in our government that were involved should be punished to the full extent of the Law.
Semper Fi,
former-republican
(2,163 posts)He didn't know nothing.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)"Why didn't more of "us" give a shit about these same Mexican teenagers"
The failure of enemy-creation (yours seems to be the NRA/GoP) to absolve one of responsibility.
"Why didn't more of "us" give a shit about these same Mexican teenagers"
One way of taking responsibility is to drop this meaningless gun-control/prohibition "outlook" (it is hardly a movement), and to work rapidly and dutifully to ending another prohibition: Currently-illegal drugs.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)... (for example) during the Bush years, we'd STILL be hearing about it here at DU- and rightly so.
But because: a) it concerned guns, and b) it was "our guys" that did it, only those who pointed out that Fast and Furious was a world-class fuckup even
mentioned the victims. The rest of the commenters were apparently thinking "Mustn't admit that the Republicans might actually be correct on this..."
Response to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)
friendly_iconoclast This message was self-deleted by its author.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I wonder why?