Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumAt age 19, monthly one-gun purchase limit is gone
RICHMOND, Va. After 19 years, the one-handgun-a-month law that ended Virginia's reputation as the East Coast arsenal for criminals has passed quietly into history.
The law, a legacy of former Gov. L. Douglas Wilder, faded into oblivion at midnight Sunday, the moment the Republican-run General Assembly appointed for its permanent repeal.
Now, rather than being limited to just one of the latest models from Glock, Sig Sauer or Smith & Wesson per month, you can walk out of a licensed Virginia gun shop with an armload if you have the money and can pass an instant background check.
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/f55c8b3f948b40ea99a912dc9da9bf7f/VA--South-Portico
Remmah2
(3,291 posts)nt
Response to Remmah2 (Reply #1)
Turbineguy This message was self-deleted by its author.
they get them from the ATF.
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)Original version with no edits.
4. But people who work for Mexican drug cartels can.
It's important that drug dealers have easy access to weapons.
Why do you hide so, scared?
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Turbineguy
(37,395 posts)just decided that there is really nothing for me in this forum. I have nothing to contribute and nothing to take away. I have fixed my profile so this forum will not show up on my "latest threads" page.
permatex
(1,299 posts)and the problem with this is...............
The only people this law impacted were honest citizens not the criminals.
Another win for gun rights.
Where oh where is that backlash I heard about?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I think after a few, it's time for a psychological evaluation.
permatex
(1,299 posts)honest citizens being able to buy more than one firearm a month is.............
So what if it's a serious addiction? What you think has jack to do with what?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)confederate flags are a few closely related examples.
permatex
(1,299 posts)Legal is legal no matter what it is. The only people this now, thankfully, defunct law impacted were honest citizens. The criminals didn't give a hoot about 1 gun a month.
Tejas
(4,759 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)assuming they only have two feet are perhaps a bit unhinged.
That's certainly not something I would waste my money on.
Then again I would never consider using the law to stop them from doing this.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)compound dwellers, bigots, and maybe a few misguided liberals.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)But I suppose if I knew my argument were completely devoid of supporting evidence I might tend to lash out in such a way as well.
Please provide stats that people who buy 2 guns per month are significantly more dangerous to society than those who buy 1 gun a month.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)This is politics, we are talking about whether more and more guns are good for society, now and long term. I personally think more yahoos -- and yes the vast majority of gun lovers and toters are Tbag bigots (not necessarily those here) -- carrying guns is not in our best interest.
The gun culture would have us just sit quietly and watch another 100 million guns added to the pot during the next decade.
Sooner or later, we are going to have to bite the bullet and deal with this junk.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)saying it's clear to you is irrelevant.
Creationism is clear to some people. As is the causal link between vaccines and autism.
And I have no doubt that to *you* the link is clear.
But I was more interested in reality. Is the link also clear in the real world (ie: outside of your imagination)?
If so, provide evidence. If not then preface your statements with "these statements are not backed by a subjective reality and are the sole opinion of Hoyt, no one else".
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)I can predict a logical future with ever more guns. Fortunately 95% of population are not gun obsessed, and they don't need to carry into public.
Besides, we can't prove God exists or not, but I'm pretty sure of answer/facts.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Actually you find the mere mention of them to be unpleasant.
Fascinating. This is some impressive projection.
Tell me about your mother . . .
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)facts are irrelevant, what you *feel* to be true is the only reality.
I don't suppose you'd accept anyone else's feelings as proof if they contradicted yours would you?
permatex
(1,299 posts)all you have are,(cue music), feelings, nothing more than feelings. Why is it when you are asked to provide proof of your statements, you launch a distraction, why is that?
Is it because you are so devoid of logic and fact that that's all you have left?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)permatex
(1,299 posts)they are just tools that can be used for good or bad, nothing more, nothing less. Now, how about the proof I asked for?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Mine may not be better in your opinion, but more guns, more carriers, more supporters of koresh, weaver, and more, are clearly not in society's interest.
I suppose you would have said Newton, Columbus, etc., had no stats either back in their day.
My proof lies in poll after poll that shows support for more gun control laws are at an all time low, my proof lies in the fact that we now have 49 states, soon to be 50, that have some form of conceal carry laws, my proof lies in the FBI stats that show violent crime is at a 20 year low but yet gun ownership is rising.
Whats your proof? I mean besides your feelings and opinion.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)lax pollution laws, etc. They are wrong too.
That's not proof of whether something is good for society.
permatex
(1,299 posts)All you have is deflect, deflect, deflect. I guess when faced with fact, thats all you have.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)This . . can't . . . no. . . a human being could not possibly have made this thought.
Are you a random word generator?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)because there was no "proof" the world was round or there was gravity.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)you are the flat earther in this analogy.
You are the one insisting on some TRUTH (!) in absence of evidence.
You really don't think there is evidence that the earth is round or that gravity exists?
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)They need to beef up testing for permits.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)You are repeatedly ask to prove your claims. You scoff at the notion and say that if there's no proof of gravity or that the earth is round why should you have to back your feelings with evidence.
I point out that there is evidence for both those things and you go off on some even more bizarre tangent.
Are you feeling ok? Maybe take a break from the internet for a while. Go for a walk or something.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)guns, so that proves they are good.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)on the side of those who would restrict our freedoms.
Prove that the 2nd amendment is a threat.
And no I never mentioned right wingers. What are you talking about?
Clames
(2,038 posts)Bunch of keyboard commandos that do little besides complain and insult. Don't spend money, don't write letters, don't do anything substantial which is why anti-gun groups have such dismal membership.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)someday. I know the tbag gun club won't, but some of you just might accept the obvious truth.
permatex
(1,299 posts)You?
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)rl6214
(8,142 posts)NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)I despise the Nazi swastika(there are many other swastikas used by different cultures with different meanings), but I'm not trying to warp the meaning of the first amendment to allow the government to restrict its use.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)We need to treat guns like cigarettes and change people's attitudes toward the dang things. Glamorizing guns is not in our best interest, well unless one profits from guns (and many do).
permatex
(1,299 posts)Support for new gun control laws are at an all time low.
And who determines whether glamorizing guns is or isn't in our best interest? You?
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)There are some pretty clearcut cases where that does take place, but I don't think encouraging the responsible carry of handguns is glamorizing them.
permatex
(1,299 posts)was just mocking him.
NewMoonTherian
(883 posts)we'll get along. I don't agree, but we'll get along.
atreides1
(16,103 posts)I support the Second Amendment and the all the others as well...I'm an NRA member, though with pasty asshats like Lapierre, Chris Cox, and Ted Nugent...i've decided not to renew my membership...not much use for an organization that deep down is an advocate for a one party government...history has shown that those types of governments become ditatorships!
But given that most humans only have two hands, why would anyone need more then two guns?
And an addiction of any kind shows a lack of inner strength, evne if it is legal!
permatex
(1,299 posts)You think that because humans only have 2 hands, we shouldn't have more that 2 guns?
You can't be serious!
I enjoy owning and shooting all types of firearms, so what? It was a tongue in cheek comment when I told Hoyt that I was addicted to guns, I didn't think anyone would take me seriously.
Stunning.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)permatex
(1,299 posts)considering I've only been here for a week or so.
Define addicted to guns, if you mean that I enjoy firearms, then, thats all it is, an admiration for fine tools, I also enjoy working on my classic car restoring it with my tools, does that make me addicted to hand tools I use to work on said vehicle?
If thats what you think, then so be it.
Clames
(2,038 posts)How many wrenches, saws, knives, flashlights, hammers, shovels, and rakes do you have? Do you have more than one car or bike?
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)you have to demonstrate that some real harm comes from people buying more than one gun a month (and you not liking it doesn't count as real harm) and that a ban like this would be effective in preventing said harm.
That's how it works.
So provide evidence.
Clames
(2,038 posts)...the one-handgun-a-month law that ended Virginia's reputation as the East Coast arsenal for criminals...
Law didn't change a damn thing when it was enacted and it won't change anything with its demise. Cue the whining from the anti-gunners in 3....2....1...
Callisto32
(2,997 posts)Lol.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Virginias gun laws were strengthened in the early 1990s by the passage of the one-gun-a-month law and by 1994s Brady Law establishing background checks on gun purchasers. Before then, Virginia had gotten the reputation of being a great place for out-of-state gun dealers to purchase cheap guns to sell illegally in other states. This process, known as straw purchasing, led to guns purchased in Virginia being used in criminal acts in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, DC, and New Jersey. At one point, Virginia gun dealers were found to supply more than 40% of guns seized in crimes in New York City.
In a statement issued by Delegate Morrissey(D) following the House vote, he said, this is a very sad day for Virginia. Governor Wilders signature piece of legislation that limited a purchase to one handgun a month has been overturned. Morrissey went on to say, Before this piece of legislation passed in 1993, Virginia was known as the Straw Purchase Capitol of the East Coast. The repeal of this law has set Virginia back almost 2 decades.
http://www.vahousedems.com/p/salsa/web/press_release/public/?press_release_KEY=819
Clames
(2,038 posts)Operative word there is "effect". Try again.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)"The restriction had an immediate impact on Virginia guns found at crime scenes out of state. According to the Journal of the American Medical Association and ATF records of traced firearms used in crimes, 41 percent of crime scene guns found in New York City in 1991 originated in Virginia. Two years after the restriction was put in place Virginia guns only accounted for 15 percent of total guns used in crime there.
The net effect of the restriction did not hold up over time, however, and by 2006 Virginia was once again a top supplier of guns used in out of state crime. Colin Goddard, a survivor of the 2007 Virginia Tech mass shooting and spokesperson for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, notes that guns trafficked from Virginia are caused by ever increasing exceptions to the one-handgun-per-month restriction.
Lobby groups like the NRA started taking away pieces of the law until they could claim it was redundant. The law did not apply to private sales, collectors, and not if you had a concealed handgun permit, said Goddard in a telephone interview. Basically everyone was exempted except gun traffickers.
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/jul/03/guns-south/
Clames
(2,038 posts)In other words, those who slept through math class. Those of us who didn't sleep though our math classes (many, many of them in my case) learned that such spikes or drops do not hold much value especially when establishing a trend in the data points. Errata does interesting things. Also, you can blame the NRA for weakening the law all you want. Fact is (and you'd know this if you troubled yourself to actually READ the law) is that most of those exceptions where already in place. As was cited in the report linked by DanTex (something else you have failed to read) there was notation about certain applications that applied to private buyers, collectors, and others.
Try again. But please do some reading this time.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Your denial of the effect of the law after 2 years is laughable.
Clames
(2,038 posts)Fact:
Since the implementation of the thirty-day prohibition on mulitple handgun purchases in 1993, purchasers are required, under 18.2-308.2:2(Q), to apply for a Multiple Handgun Purchase Certificate which authorizes the purchase of more than one handgun in a thirty-day period. To receive a certificate, the purpose must be for lawful business use, lawful personal use, inclusion in a collector series, a bulk purchase from an estate sale, or for similar purposes.
Your clinging to the the notion that it was the NRA that later weakened the law when it had such exemptions from its onset is laughable. Sad too. I deny that anyone can conclusively PROVE that it was the law, and only the law, that caused such a decline in the TRACING of guns to Virginia (the report states that it is not known if there was an impact of trafficking volume due to listed limitations). Sorry, your technical ignorance on this subject will continue to trip you until you actually start doing your own research and cease parroting the shoddy work of anti-gun organizations who have no interest in objectivity.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)The plurality of DC crime guns were from Maryland, while most NYC are from New York. Since the average crime gun is over ten years old, they are not being bought and sent to the black market new, esp. when you consider the black market price for a gun is less than retail.
BTW, multiple handgun purchases are still reported to the ATF. Has been law since 1968.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)After passing the law Virginia dropped from #1 to #8 as the source of crime guns on the East Coast. Yet again, the facts and statistics are one side, and the gun loons on the other!
where have I heard that before, oh yeah, over at MikeB302000 website. How original.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Clames
(2,038 posts)"gun loons", "gun nuts", "gun lovers", "gun sympathizers" (wtf that means anyway)....list goes on. Very predictable.
permatex
(1,299 posts)don't forget "gun religionists".
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Gun Militant
Haven't heard that one since she was tombstoned though.
Clames
(2,038 posts)The Virginia Department of State Police report confirmed that only 8% of the applications for multiple handgun purchases have been denied.
So basically there is no evidence that this law had any real, long term impact (considering it was commissioned and based on only 2 years, at the most, of evidence) over the course of its existence and you can only point to one rather old report. Seems that the anti-gun parrots have tripped themselves up again in their rush to attach numbers to anything they can to support their cause. I keep seeing that Virginia was responsible for 40% of the guns traced back but the only figure I can see is a 39% that was assigned to S.C. that was referenced in this report.
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)Lobby groups like the NRA started taking away pieces of the law until they could claim it was redundant. The law did not apply to private sales, collectors, and not if you had a concealed handgun permit, said Goddard in a telephone interview. Basically everyone was exempted except gun traffickers.
http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2012/jul/03/guns-south/
Clames
(2,038 posts)...the law already did not apply to private sales or collectors from the day it was put into practice. Hence the provision for an application process.
The report cited also said Virginia dropped from #1 to #8. Yet...
Virginia is the number one out-of-state source of crime guns in New York, and one of the top suppliers nationally, said Bloomberg. If they care about innocent people and police officers being shot, they should be strengthening laws as we have done in New York to keep guns away from criminals, not weakening them.
Seems someone is cooking the numbers and it isn't who you wish it would be...
Dr_Scholl
(212 posts)Bloomberg needs to STFU and stop embarrasing himself.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)The number of illegal guns trafficked from Virginia dropped dramatically after the law was passed. This is an example of what scientifically literate people call "empirical evidence". The report is "old" because the law was old. The low denial rate doesn't account for would-be gun traffickers who were deterred from even applying for a waiver. In fact, it shows that legitimate gun owners were not unduly affected by this. Etc.
Do I really have to explain this stuff? Seriously, now matter how low my expectations are, the gungeoneers always seem to find new depths of ignorance that I never imagined were possible.
The stated the number of guns TRACED dropped. It specifically states there is little to imply that the law impacted the actual numbers trafficked due to secondary markets. Do I really need to spell out plain English in black and white for you? Obviously you didn't even read the report YOU CITED.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)The person who takes issue with this in the report is Dr. Paul Blackman, lobbyist and researcher for the National Rifle Association. Gee, what a shock, the NRA lobbyist disagrees with the study! LOL.
Please tell me you are not really this clueless. That you are able to distinguish the conclusions of the study from the comments of a gun lobbyist.
On edit, here's another fun sentence from the report:
Well, whaddyaknow! The DU pro-gunners aren't the only gun nuts that make dumb arguments that they can't back with any data!
Clames
(2,038 posts)You specifically stated "trafficked". The report you cite specifically stated "traced". If you have difficulty understanding the difference then I suggest you enlist the aid of a Webster's dictionary or Google the terms.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)This is you one post ago:
This is me pointing out that the study concluded that the actual amount of gun trafficking was significantly impacted by the law, and the only person who tried to deny this was the NRA lobbyist:
And this last post is you trying to run away from your dishonesty/ignorance. Sorry, it didn't work.
Clames
(2,038 posts)The study YOU cited specifically states that it is unknown how the law impacted trafficking due to secondary sources. Just proving your ignorance and the fact you didn't even read that study.
S_B_Jackson
(906 posts)"all our guns are coming from Virginia".......it's repeal won't change Mikey's tune.
gregoire
(192 posts)That's what this issue is really about. Most of the violent deaths in NYC are the fault of gun owners in VA. Now VA is going to murder even more.
permatex
(1,299 posts)pull the other one, it's got bells.
What a stupid statement.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)You need to contact defense lawyers in New York ASAP. I see *many* appeals in the future:
"Your Honor, my client deserves a new trial. His conviction was based on a false premise; the murder was actually committed by a plumber from Front Royal, Virginia..."
By remote control, one presumes...
gregoire
(192 posts)and their products were illegal then your analogy would hold water. Instead we have violent people buying guns then giving or selling them to people in NYC that they know will cause crime. Those idiots in VA know exactly what they're doing.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)and why are illegal guns so much below retail on the illegal market?
SkatmanRoth
(843 posts)Completing a silverware purchase for a bridal registry results in an obese newlywed and guilt resides with who?
ileus
(15,396 posts)Ruger SR22
http://cdn.gunsamerica.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/gun+wi+case+and+accessories1.JPG
My wife want's on now.
permatex
(1,299 posts)for about $1800.00 if the little lady of the house will let me.
ileus
(15,396 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)Why would you celebrate a law that didn't apply to a class of citizens?
If this law was meant to help curb straw purchases why did it not apply to all Virginian citizens?
Let's face it...this was feel good law that did nothing for anyone but hassle honest Virginian citizens.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)no I did not know that.
now you've done it, introduced fact into their fiction.
rl6214
(8,142 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
OneTenthofOnePercent
(6,268 posts)Not to mention that different guns serve different purposes. It's not like one gun can "do it all"
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Or how many shoes can one person wear at a time?
Does it matter? Shall we limit people to buying only one pair of shoes at a time because it isn't practical to buy more?