Man Kills Attacker at Northeast Dallas Convenience Store in Stand-Your-Ground-Style Shooting

[jpak]

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2012/07/man_kills_attacker_at_northeas.php

About 4 p.m. yesterday, a man who a witness said appeared drunk, walked into the EZ Trip Food Store above and, according to police, began harassing customers.

Specifically, he slapped one person repeatedly in the face before chasing them from the store. Upon his return, he began punching a second customer in the face which, it soon became clear, was a terrible idea.

The fight moved outside where the customer, who police have not yet identified, pulled out a handgun and shot his assailant. He then waited for police to arrive and was taken into custody without incident. Yesterday afternoon, he was being interviewed by homicide detectives.

<snip>

Witness told the DMN that the shooting was uncalled for, though it's a safe guess the shooter, who has a concealed handgun license, will walk. this seems the prototypical example of the situation covered by Texas' 2007 Stand Your Ground law which "abolishes the duty to retreat if the defendant can show he: (1) had a right to be present at the location where deadly force was used; (2) did not provoke the person against whom deadly force was used; and (3) was not engaged in criminal activity at the time deadly force was used," as summed up by the Baylor Law Review. All of which seems to apply in this case.

<more>

More legalized murder in the Wild West.

yup

[mvccd1000]

1. Much better to let the assailant go on and kill someone, I suppose?

You do remember the oft-posted DOJ statistics showing that more people are killed with hands and feet than with rifles, correct? In case you've forgotten, one punch CAN (and sometimes does) kill.

More legalized self-defense.

If you want to pick on something, pick on the failed mental heath or rehab programs that let this nut go out in public and start punching people.

[jpak]

4. In Texas - Drunk and Disorderly = Death Sentence

No jury required.

yup

[Remmah2]

14. Incomplete statement of facts.

nt

[GreenStormCloud]

44. Not D&D, A&B. (Assault & Battery)

Being drunk does not give him a excuse to beat people up.

[bowens43]

17. what a bullshit justification for cold blooded murder.

[oneshooter]

64. You want to know what is really going to piss you off?

In Texas if you are no billed, found innocent or not guilty you can not be sued in civil court.
In other words the family just lost the lottery, they can't sue and life insurance, if any, will probably not pay death benefits since he was in violation of the law, assault & battery, when he was shot.

So sad.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Common Sense Party]

66. Fine. Take the gun out of the situation. Drunk guy starts beating on innocent person

for no reason. Innocent person punches drunk guy, causing a fatal injury.

Still "cold blooded murder"?

[GreenStormCloud]

72. Shooter DID retreat, drunk chased him, still punching him. Not murder - Self defense.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Convenience-Store-Customer-Kills-Man-161549915.html

The second customer also retreated from the store while the man continued striking him, police said.

Once in the parking lot, the second customer pulled out a handgun and shot the man, Mitchell told NBC 5.


See what happens when you wait for more information.

When someone starts punching you, you retreat, and they chase you, when will you allow a person to defend themselves. After they are already dying?

[GreenStormCloud]

2. He has to prove more than that.

He also has to prove that he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.

[slackmaster]

3. Going on a drunken rampage and punching out strangers carries a risk of getting shot

I see no problem here.

[jpak]

5. If he was a diabetic suffering from low blood sugar - would this be justified as well?

Yes - in the Gungeon

Yup

[slackmaster]

6. I've never heard of a diabetic with low blood sugar punching people out

Have you?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

8. From wedMD:

Each person with diabetes may have different symptoms of hypoglycemia. You will learn to recognize yours.

Early symptoms of hypoglycemia may include:

Confusion
Dizziness
Feeling shaky
Hunger
Headaches
Irritability
Pounding heart; racing pulse
Pale skin
Sweating
Trembling
Weakness
Anxiety

Without treatment, more severe hypoglycemia symptoms may develop, including:

Headache
Feeling irritable
Poor coordination
Poor concentration
Numbness in mouth and tongue
Passing out
Nightmares or bad dreams
Coma

No, nothing there about punching or getting violent. Never seen it happen; my wife is type 1.

[slackmaster]

10. Sorry about your wife. I hope she has it well-managed. I know several diabetics, both 1s and 2s.

One member of my annual poker game has Adult Onset Type 1 Diabetes. His islet cells suddenly quit working at about age 40.

He got kind of weird during one tournament and had to excuse himself for the evening. The host is diabetic and knew how to handle the situation.

I can't imagine a diabetic becoming violent. I've seen them at both extremes.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

35. It's very well managed, it's just expensive.

I'm hoping that will improve now that ACA has been cleared.

[Simo 1939_1940]

32. As a person who is moderately hypoglycemic and who has experienced

low blood sugar on many occasions, I can report that the last thing I'd be motivated to do is anything that involves physical exertion - which would include launching a physical assault.

[4th law of robotics]

34. I don't think that comment was intended to be serious

it was merely trying to divert attention away from the actual story.

[GreenStormCloud]

45. Yes. When someone is threatening your life...

...you are not required to give them a medical exam to determine why they are being so mean before you can defend yourself.

[NewMoonTherian]

7. Yes. A mentally impaired person trying to kill you is still trying to kill you.

Self defense doesn't mean blowing someone away because they're a dick. It means stopping a violent attacker before you are killed or severely injured. I'm not saying this shooting was justified even under the current circumstances - it's too early to tell. I'm saying that the attacker's mental state has absolutely no bearing on justification of self defense. If a perfectly lucid person is trying to kill you, and you can prevent it without killing that person, you should.

[Remmah2]

9. Unfortunatly this has nothing to do with the facts of the case.

nt

[slackmaster]

11. It's just an extremely weak attempt at distraction, something jpak often treats us to

He has a knack for finding inappropriate analogies and "What Ifs"

[bongbong]

41. Yes!

Those "what-ifs" from the gun-religionists include "I need lotsa guns! What if somebody looks at me cross-eyed??? I'm SCARED!!!!"

at the total and obvious hypocrisy.

[GreenStormCloud]

46. So you downgrade the criminal's Assault & Battery to "looks at me cross-eyed"?

The shooter tried to retreat and the bad guy followed him and kept beating him.

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. Our late Canadian zampolit was *far* better at excusing criminal behavior then you'll ever be:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=129988&mesg_id=129988

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=129988&mesg_id=129996

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=275101&mesg_id=275101

[aikoaiko]

73. For bongbong getting repeatedly beaten = "look at me cross-eyed"

This is a good example of why you fail. Unless of course you're a false flagger seeking to make anti-RKBA look like idiots. In that case, you're succeeding famously.

[bongbong]

81. LOL

More nonsense from another interchangeable gun-religionist with his interchangeable Talking Points, personal attacks, and insanity.

Laughing is never more fun than at gun-religionists.

[aikoaiko]

82. Laugh away while you become the anti-gun poo flinger with a losing track record.

Its funny watching you.

[4th law of robotics]

29. What if, and stay with me here

the so-called drunken belligerent was in fact one "Rowdy" Roddy Piper who had come in to possession of some sun glasses that allowed him to see the terrible truth about the world: that in fact we are being ruled over by aliens forcing us in to consumerism and obedience!

Yes that's right and the people he attacked were in fact said aliens that only he could see.

He's a hero, killed by the aliens that only want to harvest our planet for resources.

Or your diabetic thing.

Both are equally plausible here.

[slackmaster]

31. If it were me, I'd offer Mr. Piper a piece of bubblegum

[AtheistCrusader]

57. From the standpoint of his victim, it doesn't matter what his problem is.

Could be medical.
Could be drug related.
Could be genuine nutso-rage.

Doesn't matter. The bar is that the victim is in reasonable fear for his or her physical safety. Cross that bar, and get your ass shot. It's a very simple thing, and all your bullshit hyperbole won't change it.

Don't want to get shot? Don't accost other people.

[rl6214]

69. I'm a type one diabetic as is my son and neither of us has ever punched anyone out when

we had low blood sugar.

That was a lame post.

[oneshooter]

77. Did you expect any better from the OP?

[rl6214]

80. No, not really.

[bowens43]

18. that is sad... I feel sorry for you.

[slackmaster]

19. As usual your only response is a personal attack

That's just how you roll, I suppose.

[Remmah2]

37. Then they whine and cry to the admins.

nt

[slackmaster]

48. I prefer public excoriation

Your reply is also a personal attack. What are you doing in this group? Can't you hold a decent conversation?

[Remmah2]

51. It's worse than Thanksgiving with my in laws.

At least they go home.

[ladjf]

21. You might see it differently had the drunk person been one of your children or a person who

you knew well. nt

[slackmaster]

24. You might see it differently if the drunk person had been attacking one of your children or a person

who you knew well.

[ladjf]

25. Both of our statements could well be true. My point was that had the drunkard been well

known to you, it's likely that you might have had some insight into why he/she was behaving
abnormally. In which case, killing them wouldn't have been you option of choice.

[4th law of robotics]

30. Every person ever killed has a mother who loved them

who will swear before cameras that "before he started eating people he was the sweetest boy, never did anything wrong. Would walk old ladies across the street and sang in the church choir".

Clearly nice people who have never done anything wrong are monsters.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

50. This is a rather interesting point.

This highlights the fact that our justice system ideally operates outside of close relationships. "Justice is blind," they say.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

79. We had something along those lines happen to us when we first moved into Wash DC

Short background: Home invasion robbery. One perp injured by me, the other shot by my wife. Was before DC banned handguns (long time back)

Dead perp's mother came with a "delegation" to discuss with me why I had felt it necessary to kill her boy (her words, not mine).

She had assumed we were white so when my African American wife opened the door the originally thought she had the wrong address. After being assured she was at the right house, she came in and sat down with my wife, while the "delegation" waited outside. They talked as mothers, something us guys will never fully understand. My wife told her what had happened and how she had no choice under the circumstances. The mother talked about her son, and over time was able to acknowledge he had strayed from the church etc. In the end, while still grieving, she got some closure and that was the last of it.

[AtheistCrusader]

58. I would probably be remorseful that my child, who I equipped to deal with the world

went so off the rails as to get drunk and physically threaten or harm someone so much that they were in fear for their life, or feared grievous physical harm, and shot my kid in self defense.

I would feel like a failure as a parent.

[DanTex]

12. Another bloodthirsty gun hero (with a CCW license).

You mean a drunk guy got rowdy and started picking fights with people? No way! That never happens!

Uh, wait, actually this happens all the time. It's one of the reasons that allowing guns in bars is a bad idea. What civilized people do is stay away from the drunk guy until the police show up. Unless some wannabe gun hero decides this is his chance for glory.

[Remmah2]

13. again, what does this have to do with the facts of the case?

nt

[DanTex]

15. Are you capable of writing multiple sentences? nt

[Remmah2]

28. An even further attempt at distraction from the discussion at hand.

This seems to be a common technique used by the prohibitionist. Distract from the fact.

[DanTex]

33. Hey, three sentences! Awesome! You were saying something about "facts"...

[Remmah2]

36. Do you have anything to add to the discussion?

Or is the intent to disrupt and misinform?

It's a crappy debate technique.

[bongbong]

42. Wow

Obvious projection, multiple times!

Congrats to the gun-religionists on their "debating" "rebuttals".

WOW!

[Clames]

55. And here you come adding your usual less-than-nothing to the debate.

[4th law of robotics]

27. Avoid drunk people . . . by staying out of quickee marts?

He wasn't in a bar looking for a fight.

He was in a convenience store and the guy came in and attacked at least one other person before getting to him.

[bowens43]

16. hopefully this jackass will spend a long time in prison (but I doubt it).

If he was carrying a gun he should be charged with premeditated murder. end of story.

[Clames]

61. You drive a car...

...that has the potential to kill someone due to your negligence. You should be charged the next time you drive somewhere? Sound like a sensible plan?

[GreenStormCloud]

63. Self-defense is NOT murder. N/T

[rl6214]

70. And another idiotic drive-by post

So now just carrying a gun is premeditation? What will it be next from you, just owning a gun murder charges should be filled on you?

[Jenoch]

83. How can the jackass spend

a long time in prison if he is already dead?

[PavePusher]

84. The poster you replied to....

was wanting the defensive-shooter jailed for murder.

Yes, there really is such vile fucktardery here on DU. It's quite shameful.

[Rabid_Rabbit]

20. So shooting someone

on a drunken rampage, assaulting people is uncalled for? Have people lost all common sense?
How about: It is uncalled for to go on a rampage assaulting people.

As a society we have become so cowardly and just run away instead of standing up for ourselves. Hey, I got away from him who cares if he beats, kills somebody else.

[ladjf]

23. So you would have shot the man because you thought that perhaps he might beat or kill

someone else. That would made you the judge, jury and executor of the drunk man. He might have had a mental disorder and was unable to get his meds or any number of other extenuating circumstances that could have been a one time incident.

[Rabid_Rabbit]

26. No I would not have shot the man

This was more a comment on society as a whole than on this individual case. But had the first individual not run away the man would have not felt empowered to continue assaulting individuals in the store.

[Oneka]

40. The next time someone

Is beating me , with his fists, at the local convenience store, I will be sure to ask him what extenuating circumstances are at play in his life, and queiry him, on whether this assault is a one time deal, before I defend myself.





Sorry, but my life and well being, are more important to me, than some asshole who is assaulting me , no matter what extenuating circumstances are happening in his life.
I have a wife who needs her husband, and a daughter who needs, and depends on her
father, those are the only extenuating circumstances that would matter to me in a similar situation.

[ladjf]

60. Perhaps I misread the post. I wasn't aware that the shooter was being assaulted. nt

[Common Sense Party]

67. It's in the second paragraph of the OP:

"he began punching a second customer in the face"

[Spoonman]

49. Judge, jury and executor

He might have had a mental disorder and was unable to get his meds or any number of other extenuating circumstances

If only Seung-Hui Cho could have gotten to his meds.

If only Jared Lee Loughner could have gotten to his meds.

[permatex]

53. Who gives a shit what the reason is

if I'm getting my ass beat with a real fear of my life in danger, you better believe I will pull my soon to be conceal carry gun and shoot to end the threat, not kill, but to end the threat, if the person dies in the process, well I would feel remorse for having to use deadly force to stop the attack, but, at least I would still be alive to feel remorse.

[AtheistCrusader]

59. Self defense isn't an exercise of extra-judicial power. It is just self defense. Try again.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

76. not this Individual's fault that society failed the Drunk. Society needs to put in place

better helping and coping mechanisms for our mentally disabled and emotionally handicapped Individuals. Perhaps this Individual will become an Advocate for such changes.

[4th law of robotics]

22. More like legalized suicide

slapping an armed man repeatedly is not a wise decision.

[hack89]

38. The drunk should not have followed the guy outside

The shooter made an effort to remove himself from the situation. The drunk in turn made a serious mistake.

[slackmaster]

39. That's exactly how I see it

The shooter did make an effort to retreat from the situation.

[GreenStormCloud]

43. The shooter tried to retreat.

From: http://www.the33tv.com/news/kdaf-north-dallas-store-shooting-leaves-man-dead-20120705,0,3423937.story

Police say the unidentified black male slapped a customer in the face that customer ran out of the store and the man chased after him. They say he then went back into the store and hit a second customer with his fist. This fight also spilled outside, but ended in gunfire.

So the first victim was chased by the thug after he ran away. It is likely that the CHLer saw that. Then the thug hits the CHLer. "The fight spilled outside." To me that sounds like the CHLer tried to get away but wasn't able to. He then ended the beating he was being given.

Why the guy was beating people doesn't matter.

[PavePusher]

47. The DO blog seems to have lied.

Linking through to the original DMN article, "Witness told the DMN that the shooting was uncalled for..." does not appear to have been reported.

You should vet your sources more carefully, jpak.

yup

[4th law of robotics]

54. Well there are different kinds of truth

there's "the truth" based on observable empirical evidence that accurately describes an objective reality.

Then there's "The Truth!" based on conjecture and supporting a particularly ideology.

Don't tell me you're going to trust your lying eyes?

[MicaelS]

52. Just so everyone knows the source of this article..

The Dallas Observer is one of those free local weekly tabloid type papers. Mostly ads with a little bit of news. And they definitely have an agenda.

The Dallas Observer is a free alternative weekly newspaper distributed around the Dallas, Texas (USA). At its inception, it was conceived as a weekly local arts and cinema review publication, with the credo "Advocate for Excellence in the Arts" on the cover. For a time during the early years, the paper switched to a biweekly publishing scheduling. Eventually, the paper reverted to a weekly schedule, and began concentrating less on the arts. While it is now known for its investigative stories of the local government, it also covers local sports stories, restaurants, events, and concerts.

The former Mayor of Dallas, Laura Miller, previously worked as a reporter for the Dallas Observer.

Village Voice Media owns the paper, along with numerous other alternative weekly newspapers in the USA.

The Dallas Observer is a member of the Association of Alternative Newsweeklies.

[Clames]

56. Seems like the usual type of highly suspect sources that the anti-gun religionists use.

Who needs facts when you've got emotion and a misguided sense of moral superiority?

[ileus]

65. I don't suppose he'll be beating anymore innocent citizens.

[Common Sense Party]

68. Why didn't the guy getting beaten by the drunk just respond to him in a strong, authoritative voice?

That solves the problem every time.

That, or a can of beans.

[Oneka]

71. Perhaps

A bycicle wheel, would have been more appropriate for this drunk.

[aikoaiko]

74. I'll wait for a few more facts to come out before passing judgment.

Its being investigated, as it should, and then we'll find out if it was justifiable or murder.

[sarisataka]

78. The attitude seems to be

by one side- we wait for the facts, unless it involves guns, then any blog is the gospel handed to me by Jesus personally and that is all I ever need to know.

If you wait for facts you are just a (insert anti-gun insult here)

[Tejas]

75. Shoot the witnesses too.

"Witness told the DMN that the shooting was uncalled for,"

So f***ing what? Execute the shooter on the spot due to the invincible opinion of these witnesses? If everyone is right, then let's execute the witnesses because the shooter said they were lying.