Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumif anyone is interested -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100269819460-plus guns going back to 3 members of Hutaree militia
Now that they've been vindicated, three Hutaree militia defendants are getting their guns and ammunition back.
The court concluded that they are entitled to get their 60-plus guns back, along with hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition.
U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts filed an order Tuesday that would allow Thomas Piatek to get his weapons back. That includes 41 guns -- shotguns, rifles, handguns and an AK47 -- along with more than 100,000 rounds of ammunition.
The weapons and ammo were seized from his Indiana home during an FBI raid in 2009, which led to his arrest. He was imprisoned for two years on charges that he helped plot an anti-government revolt.
Piatek's lawyer Arthur Weiss said his client will never get those two years back, but rightfully will get his weapons back.
"Since they didn't engage in criminal activity, their lawfully maintained weapons and ammunition should be returned. The government has no basis to keep law-abiding citizens from exercising their Second Amendment rights."...
http://www.freep.com/article/20120516/NEWS01/205160439
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)...then the gov't should make a offer.
Say, $45,000 for the 60 guns and $25,000 for the 100,000 rounds of ammo.
Ballpark figures, of course.
Unless you think the government should just take $70,000 worth of these people's property?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So just to be clear, you are happy that a bunch of rightwing racist radicals have been rearmed?
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Are you happy that these fuck nuts are getting their massive arsenal back?
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Last edited Fri May 18, 2012, 04:11 AM - Edit history (2)
Protecting the freedoms of unpopular people is a good test of how seriously you believe in those freedoms. I don't want terror suspects tortured in Egypt, I don't want the Illinois Nazis banned from demonstrating, I don't want the police to search an ex-convict's home without a warrant, I don't want a gang member beaten for refusing to incriminate himself, and I don't want acquitted militiamen to have their property stolen from them.
EDIT: I forgot about Skokie when I was writing this post...I was thinking of the guys from the Blues Brothers!
GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)Yes, that must also apply for those groups that we don't like.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)it seems John Adams is turning in his grave.
This however is no Reason why the Town should not call the Action of that Night a Massacre, nor is it any Argument in favour of the Governor or Minister, who caused them to be sent here. But it is the strongest Proofs of the Danger of Standing Armies.
John Adams, on the third anniversary of the massacre[52]
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Seems I need to remind people of this on a regular basis:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=118&topic_id=181522#182329
Response to Reply #129
144. Guess what? Civil rights aren't just for "our sort of people"
Edited on Sat Aug-02-08 02:04 AM by friendly_iconoclast
There is a very long history in American jurisprudence of people defending the civil rights of
people they wouldn't have over for dinner. Or who wouldn't have *them* over for dinner.
From John Adams (accused British soldiers in the Boston Massacre), to
the ACLU (Illinois Nazis vs. the city of Skokie), to Sabin Willett (prisoners at Guantanamo).
I wouldn't defend Razzano as a person. I would, however, defend his rights no matter how odious his ideologies.
See: Goose and gander, sauce for.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I have said absolutely nothing about legal or constituitional issues.
Somebody else brought up Skokie. Was I happy that fucking nazis marched down the streets of Skokie? No. Nor am I happy that funcking nazi nut jobs got their arsenal back. Why would anyone be happy about that?
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)I certainly don't sympathize with them at all, and the second-to-last sentence of my (edited) previous post applies to the Hutaree (Hutarii?) as well:
"I wouldn't defend Razzano as a person. I would, however, defend his rights no matter how odious his ideologies."
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)That news brought a smile to your face?
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)That is, if the government had confiscated property belonging to acquitted citizens on the basis of their political beliefs?
hack89
(39,171 posts)bring a smile to your face? The Patriot Act must of had you grinning for weeks.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)why can't I assume you support authoritarian government policies?
You tell me - do you think the government should have kept the weapons? If so, what would permit it?
Or are you like me - I don't support heavily armed RW militias but think that due process concerning civil liberties is even more important?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Armed nazi militias do not make me happy. Nazis marching through Skokie, or Munich for that matter, don't make me happy. How you get from there to "you think we support right wing militias" is an interesting exercise.
My emotional reaction to these assholes getting their arsenal back was and is "fucking fabulous".
hack89
(39,171 posts)why didn't you accept at face value that what he was happy about was the proper application of due process by the government?
krispos42
(49,445 posts)But that's my opinion, not something I want for government policy.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)aikoaiko
(34,185 posts)That's that in American legal system. Not perfect.
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)(Meant to post here in the first place...)
In principle, I like militias, but in practice the members thereof creep me out. It's one thing to arm and train for the common defense and a sense of civic duty, but another when the movement seems to be dominated by paranoid conspiracy theorists. But rights is rights, and if they're acquitted they oughta get their property back.
spin
(17,493 posts)to own a large collection of firearms and a large quantity of ammo.
Firearms are often an excellent investment. We have just recently had a shortage of ammo for many common calibers and the price of ammo has been skyrocketing. It makes sense to buy ammo when it is cheap and available. Stored properly it will last for decades.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Oh. Wait a minute.
Then again, we all know you prefer rule-by-fiat-de-hoyt.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)for when the Reptilian shadow government orders Obama to activate the chemtrail mind control device. Only they're immune because they don't drink municipal water contaminated with the mind drugs disguised as fluoride.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,483 posts)...for the black helicopters and the spider-bots.
ileus
(15,396 posts)I was a member of Chemtrail Central for a while....
"They're spraying us hard today!"
Tejas
(4,759 posts)Please repost it if it's not too much trouble, I like to stay abreast of terrorist activities.
ileus
(15,396 posts)It's the least they should pay for false imprisonment.
41 firearms.......Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what an arsenal.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)Now they can spread their cheer and joy unhindered.
Fucking morons.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Seems that Mr. Stone had an unregistered/taxed machine gun. He is still facing that charge with the locals. Will the feds push the NFA violation? Not counting on it.
They may be morons, but looks more like victims of entrapment. The BoR is for everyone, even people we don't like.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)I doubt they're done with their mission.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)they don't look smart enough to be criminal masterminds.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,169 posts)Thanks anyway.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)One of them even wants posting privleges in Gun Control & RKBA restricted to "more equal" DU members...
Meiko
(1,076 posts)Usually the government just steals it when they don't like you.