No-knead rye bread - a flop and a success

[eleny]

I made a no-knead rye yesterday but it never rose like I hoped. I follow Steve's method for turbo bread at his YouTube channel, Artisan bread with Steve. I subbed one cup of rye flour for the white, as usual, and even added more water and yeast like I usually do. And a handful of caraway seeds. It always worked before.

It made a tasty loaf but it's too dense to use as a sandwich bread.

Yesterday I used refrigerated Fleischmann's instant yeast that's well within freshness. The bread is good and achieved 200 degrees internal temp but I hoped for a less dense loaf.

So today I opened a package of SAF Red Instant and used the same amounts of the other ingredients as yesterday. I also took the time to use a thermometer to make sure the water was between 100 and 110 degrees. Today's loaf rose higher during the first and second rise plus I got an oven spring.

I'm surmising that the water temp was a little too warm yesterday and some of the yeast died.
It pays to take the extra minute to take the water's temp.

[SheltieLover]

1. Thanks for sharing

I wish I could make bread. I live in TN & everything literally tastes like a biscuit. 🙄😏

And they are proud that "Italian" bread tastes that way. 😜

Yours sounds wonderful!

[eleny]

6. You're welcome and btw - you can do it!

My family only made bapka during the holidays and I only got to watch my grandmas have at it. But now this no-knead method makes it so easy and you still get the full flavor that traditional kneading provides. Time on the counter overnight for a slow rise makes the flavor happen.

[SheltieLover]

9. Do you refrigerate it overnight?

No knead sounds wonderful! 😍 TY!

Oh, as an aside, for your cabbage rolls & chops...

Chop cabbage fine. Use dry mix Ital dressing (4 seasons or Kroger Zesty Italian), mix with cider vinegar, olive oil, chopped onions & green peppers. Omg so good!

Enjoy! 😁

[eleny]

12. More great ideas for chops!

Adding green peppers to any dish changes it a lot. New twists on a traditional dish is a good thing.

The no-knead dough is left on the counter overnight because it only requires 1/4 tsp of yeast.
If you use the turbo method then it only rises for 1.5 hours because you use more yeast.

Check out Steve's YT channel if you get the urge to try it. He's so calm and gets right to the point and he lists the ingredients in the video.

[Phoenix61]

2. I haven't baked any bread in a long time

but I make yogurt on a regular basis. You heat the milk to 180 then let it cool before you add the starter. I’ve killed a batch or two because I got in a hurry and added the starter too soon.

[eleny]

7. I think that yesterday I got overconfident and rushed things

My mom used to make yogurt in a crock overnight. She's add some older yogurt to some milk in a covered bean pot and leave it on the stove near the pilot light. The next day or so it made a yogurt that was the consistency of junket. Then it was chilled. Old school yogurt.

[rzemanfl]

3. I have a similar issue with our bread machine.

I always take the temperature of the water.
Maybe I should mix outside the machine, let it rise some then put the dough in the machine.

[eleny]

4. I haven't used my bread machine in many months sicne I disovered the no-knead method

Bread machines are great since you add everything to it, press a button and walk away.

But since you're considering doing some extra steps, let me encourage you to try no-knead. You literally add everything to one big bowl, mix it up, cover it and leave it alone for anywhere from 1.5 hours to overnight. Dump it in a bread pan and let it rise again for half an hour, then bake.

I was never a bread baker except to use my old DAK machine and then a Sunbeam. Both worked well here at high altitude. Kneading the bread by hand put me off since I don't have the confidence that I'll do it right in this arid climate. So no-knead intrigued me and now I'm hooked. The flavor is all there just like the traditional method provides.

I'm interested in hearing about your results if you add it to your machine after the first rise. Does your bread maker allow you to program it differently? My Sunbeam is so low tech that it can only start from the beginning.

[soothsayer]

5. I always test the temp with my elbow

Have yet to kill any yeast. Love working with yeast. Best rye bread I ever made had a mashed potato base. I gotta try that again. If you find a recipe, try it!

[eleny]

8. I found some recipes on the web, thanks

One even has buttermilk in it and I've got some in the fridge. It doesn't even require a starter. Oh, happy day!

[fierywoman]

10. I always test on the inside of my wrist, like for a baby's bottle.

[Major Nikon]

11. The most common thing I see people doing wrong is not giving enough time to ferment

In my experience all white flour will triple in volume while whole wheat flour will at least double. If you use a graduated poly tub to do your mixing and fermentation, it makes it easier to judge those volumes.

The next most common error is under or over proofing. The finger dent method insures a proofed loaf is ready for baking.

Whole wheat bread is just going to be more dense because the sharpness of the bran is going to pop many of the CO2 bubbles used for leavening. The reason why commercial whole wheat is so much lighter is because dough modifiers are often used.

[eleny]

13. Thanks, MN

I use a large glass bowl and have learned how high the dough has to get for it to be double. But I like the precision of a graduated tub.

I mostly cook for just us two here and make one loaf at a time. Do you think a 6-qt bucket would be more than enough room for a single recipe?

[Major Nikon]

15. I use a 6qt bucket for 2 loaves

My typical dough mix is 1000g of flour and 700g of water, which sounds like a bit more than what you're doing. White flour will rise to about the 4 liter mark and whole wheat usually makes it to around the 3qt mark.

You can certainly use a bowl and with experience you can judge volume just fine. It's just that the graduated tubs take all the guess work out of it. They are also taller than a bowl so it makes mixing easier and with less mess. The lids are generally sold separately, but if you get one it saves from having to use cling wrap.

[eleny]

19. Thanks for the proportions

The recipes I've been using call for 13 ounces of water and at most 14 ounces for a single loaf. But I've increased the amount of water and achieved better results. Just mixing it up initially there was too much dry flour on the bottom of the bowl that wouldn't incorporate well. Then I figured that bread dough is forgiving and began adding more and more water a little at a time.

At first I was very mindful of making adjustments for our high altitude and arid climate. But then I stopped worrying, added more water and used the baking time and temp for sea level. I was finally able to achieve the 200 degree internal temp with a great crust. The adjustments I was making resulted in breads with too dark crusts and slightly gummy centers even after cooling completely. It's odd that when I abandoned making changes for my location I could finally get a loaf of bread that was baked all the way through. No more slightly gummy centers even if we slice into a loaf soon after it comes out of the oven. So I'm for trying any advice. After all, it's just dough made with a few ingredients.

Months ago when I was just getting started I misread a recipe and added the equivalent of two packets of yeast for a single loaf. I had to watch that bad boy because it was ready to take over the kitchen. But I saw it through and it made a loaf in record time. It had an astonishing oven spring. It baked perfectly and resulted in a delicious white bread.

[Major Nikon]

20. In my experience 70% hydration works best for dutch oven bread

I do everything by weight, but with yeast and long fermentation times unless you have a scale that can measure in tenths of a gram it's hard to get your yeast quantity.

Here's a recipe I think will work out well for what you are doing. Use a scale for everything but the yeast.

570g white A/P or bread flour
400g water (approximately 100F)
12g salt
1/8-1/4 tsp instant yeast (if you don't have instant or rapid rise yeast you will need to proof it with some of the water and about 1/8 tsp sugar)

Ideally the fermentation time should take about 12 hours to triple, but this depends on how warm your kitchen is. Adjust the amount of yeast in subsequent loaves to achieve close to 12 hours. Long fermentation times means you don't need to knead the dough.

Proof for approximately 1.25 hours until it passes the finger dent test

Preheat oven and dutch oven to 450F. Bake covered for 30 mins and uncovered for about 20 minutes or until it is as dark as you like.

[locks]

14. Thanks

For years I've tried to find the Swedish Rye my grandmother made but no recipe I've made was the same. It was perfect, sweet and best when it was still warm. Could be that I'm old and lots of things don't taste like they used to.

[eleny]

18. It could be

I noticed the same about our taste buds. Our sense of smell becomes diminished so our ability to taste follows.

For a few years I tried to replicate my mother's lima bean soup recipe. My soups were good but something was missing. And then one day I remembered how she would add one can of condensed tomato soup to her large pot of lima bean soup. So I made a pot with some of that canned soup added in proportion to how much I was making and there was mom's soup exactly. It was subtle but it made the difference.

So keep trying. I read one Swedish bread recipe that called for some fennel seeds, orange zest, brewed coffee and white sugar instead of molasses and brown sugar. Very different additions to most other recipes I found.

[Warpy]

16. Dense caraway rye bread, sliced super thin

and spread with either butter or cream cheese and garnished with sprigs of dill, thin slices of cucumber, thin slices of red onion, smoked salmon, or carefully cleaned watercress---food of the gods.

I was always thrilled when the rye bread flopped and came out dense.

[eleny]

17. Those little square sliced rye breads were always a favorite

Not the teeny ones but the slices are maybe 4" square. Smoked salmon and rye is a heavenly combo.

I was just trying to achieve a sandwich slice where the bread is softer. But we'll still enjoy the dense loaf.

[trof]

21. Steve has a great youtube channel.