Anyone take a dive into Black Money Love from Turkey on Netflix?

[eleny]

I looked for something to keep me away from the RNC convention this week. So I looked for something with a bunch of seasons and found this series. From Netflix:
"After a cop's fiancée and a jewelry designer's father are found dead together, the two bereaved ones face a perilous aftermath of a theft gone wrong."

Netflix is airing Season 1, so far, that has 164 episodes. Season 2 has 54 and isn't available yet. Each episode is about 40 minutes so they really leaned into it. It only aired in Turkey 2014-2015 and was produced during those two years according to Wikipedia.

Well, I leaned into it, too, and managed to watch many episodes since last weekend. I didn't watch a single second of the RNC lie-fest nor the running commentary.

I like the scenery, especially when some was filmed in Rome. I'm also exploring some Turkish recipes to try. And, checking out some cultural norms since I know very little about the country.

[bbgrunt]

1. it's a very interesting show

I beg to differ with Wiki, however: it has been a major export from Turkey to most of South America, Europe, and the rest of the world. Its lead actor also won an international best actor award in Seoul against Terrance Howard (Empire) and Adrian Brody (Houdini) for his role in the show.

Both seasons are included in the Netflix offering. It was originally shown in weekly 1.5 hour episodes. Netflix broke them down into 45 min segments.

The characters are great and well played. It is much more than a simple crime show. I guess you can tell that I really liked it. The only thing for most Americans might be the obvious male patriarchy and chauvinism displayed by some of the characters which is more prevalent in Turkish culture. This series, however, is based in Istanbul which exhibits a much wider variation of that tendency.

It provides a wonderful intro into Turkish culture, life, customs, and class divisions. It's plot is fast paced and intricate. The lead actors are international stars.

Actually, the Turkish "soap opera" or tv series is a big industry and you will find several very good ones on Netflix.......The industry has been credited with giving the tourism a sector in Turkey with a real boost. In fact, I have tried to learn some Turkish, but my brain isn't very plastic any more. It's a lot harder than learning Spanish in my 20's!

Anyway, I'm glad to hear someone else is enjoying it! It is definitely a great escape from the election stuff and the crassness of much of Hollywood's offerings.

[eleny]

2. Thanks! Now I see why some epsidoes pick up exactly where they left off...

... and some episodes replay cenes to give the viewer a mini refresher.

I have to admit something. By episode 50 I wondered if I was devoting too much time to a story that might eventually disappoint. I could be spending more time sewing and painting instead of being glued to the tv screen. So I went looking for a synopsis of the last episode. I never do this. But 164 episodes? Yeah, I went there.

I found a very misleading synopsis that didn't go into much detail but said it was a weird ending. They gave their example of why they came to that conclusion and I was down in the dumps. Why go through all those many hours just to have it fall flat? It didn't make sense.

And then I found the YouTube video of the complete final episode. I skipped forward here and there and then took the plunge to watch the last 5 minutes or so. It wasn't weird. It was perfect. They couldn't have written a better ending for those two characters.

Like you said about the chauvinism and the patriarchy, it's off putting. But this series tests that business time and time again. Btw, so far I adore Omer's mom. She's a contrast to Elif's who is a major piece of work. 'Nuff said about that. Since I'm rambling now, how about Elif's older sister? That actress acted her ass off. When she was in a scene you couldn't notice anyone else. The way she walks into a room in those major high heels is epic. Kudos.

So I'm planning to stick it out and watch the whole series. I'm so glad Netflix has it all.

P.S. If you can suggest any other Turkish stories on Netflix that you liked best I'd like to know the ones.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

3. Is it subtitled in English? If yes, even more exhausting

To binge? Never had seen Downton Abbey, so binged on that. Loved it. I was speaking very British when over

Now we are watching Poldark on Amazon Prime. Set in Cornwall post-revolutionary war. must say, it's jolly good.

Biggest observation. Long ago visitors were met in driveway by all residents and servants. Again when they departed. How did they know exactly when they'd arrive!

[eleny]

8. At least the subtitles stay on the screen long enough to read them

I've really enjoyed some Scandinavian dramas but the cc can flash and disappear in a second. At least with this story you can read what they're saying and get to see the action, too.

About Downton Abbey. Hey, if I had to spend most of my time in that place with hardly any contact with the world I'd spend a lot of time hanging around outside waiting for guests!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

10. Lol!! So aren't the " too fast to read" subtitles beacsuse

The script writers/directors screwed up and sped up dialogue?

[eleny]

11. I'm not getting that impression

Sometimes it's a lengthy bit dialog and the cc flashes on and away. I just think they don't know what they're doing. And it happens in some of my favorite series like Bordertown that takes place in Finland. So I just scroll back and try to freeze the screen so I can read it all.

I prefer hearing the actual voice of the actors. Too often the dubbing sounds tinny. I think it started when I was a kid and we didn't have the choice of dubbing or not. PBS would air the samurai movies and I got used to reading the dialog. Then when the Godzilla movies came out the dubbing was the butt of jokes.

[Fla Dem]

17. I just find that Scandinavian folk speak really fast.

So if it's a conversation it can goes back and forth really fast and the sub-titles have to follow it.

Just finished a 5 season Danish series "Rita". When she's in an animated conversation it was tough to read the dubbing. My pause button got a workout. But it was a good series.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

4. PS. Still our Netflix fav. "Manhunt" Australian TV show

About two completely different woman who meet at a bus stop and end up traveling the entire country evading the law. Sometimes funny, action packed mystery. Actors really enunciate so no cc needed

[bbgrunt]

6. I think it is called "Wanted" on Netflix and

I agree it's a jolly good romp.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. Yes, 'WANTED"- big duh on my part. Any other Netflix hot tips?

[eleny]

27. I've got to check this out

it looks like a great change of pace, thanks!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

29. Hope you like it!

[bbgrunt]

5. ha! you did well!

I have to admit that the writers seem to take delight in throwing every possible obstacle at the two main characters and at times it seems to be more than necessary, but such is the world of these Turkish "dizis"--they don't usually go on forever like "As the World Turns" or other American soap operas, but they certainly aren't as concise as a simple movie.

So if you enjoy the characters, it gives you ample time to really get to know them and watch their development. I agree that Asli is quite the character--and so are Tayyar and Metin and even Nulifer although she was the most annoying character for me (but well played). I thought it was interesting how important extended families seem to be in that society and how they manage to put up with even the most annoying personalities (like Melike and Fatma) and marriages join families together much more than in our culture. It seems children consider themselves orphans when they lose their fathers but not their mothers.....so the patriarchy is strong. I also enjoyed seeing all the random cats and dogs stray in and out of scenes.

I also have to admit that I became a huge Engin Akyurek fan after watching this in spite of his apparent hot headed intensity in this role. In the end, he becomes somewhat tamed by Elif. He also plays a leading character in another Turkish serial that is world famous called "What's the fault of Fatmagul?" about rape. It is another well-done story but even longer than "Black Money Love". You can find it
https://raindizi.com/fatmagul-episode-1-with-english-subtitles/
But if you watch it you will probably not recognize him at first since he is somewhat of a chamleon in the different roles he plays.

In terms of Netflix, just type "Turkish Series" into the search box and you will find there are lots of choices available. Among these, I also enjoyed "Winter Sun" and "Intersection". I obviously have had a lot of spare time during this isolation of the pandemic. Enjoy if you have the time!

[eleny]

9. Yes, about the family ties that develop

Taking in people like would never happen here.

I'm so glad you mentioned the dogs and cats. Even the distant barking out of the blue feels right. In a recent confrontation scene that takes place in a fairly remote place, the characters finish their argument, part ways and a chicken waddles it's way in between them. Nobody bats and eye.

I like the subtle way they handle the class distinctions now and then. The wealthy family and the working class one each live in houses that are elevated to a more or less degree. The wealthy family has an elevator to take a short hop to their home while the poor climb a long stone staircase to get up to theirs.

Two other things. First, have you ever seen so much crying in any tv show or movie? The weeping is epic in BM/L. I'm up to episode 71 and I think maybe only one or two main characters hasn't cried. Second, people are always eating. It's great. If it's not a huge family meal it's street food. And don't get me started on the gallons of tea these folks drink. No matter that they use small glasses.

[bbgrunt]

12. wow, you're just chugging on through

I know it's hard to find a point to pause....

I like your observation about the differences of the houses. It's just one of the many distinctions we see. I think a lot of the differences show up in the oppression of the women. The rich women, although facing the same patriarchy, seem to have more license in challenging it, where the poorer women seem to not only be shackled by it, but end up helping to enforce it.

One of the refreshing things about this particular show is that Elif is allowed to take the initiative in pursuing Omer--although she has to pull back until he is forced by jealousy to react.

I think one of the things that drew me to these serials was the emotionality (yes, even the crying--except for Nilufer). Maybe it's the isolation of being older along with the pandemic, but all the emotions really fulfill a need that doesn't get satisfied by most movies and/or political analysis. The constant crazy mind-fucking by all media is making me lose confidence of ever finding any reality in rational analysis. So I take refuge in fictional stories for now---although after watching this one, the effort to get rid of Tayyar seemed very analogous to the efforts to get rid of trump.

And they do drink a lot ot tea! (I can't understand the small glasses either)

If you'll forgive me linking a fan made video, you might find this an interesting take on the series:

&list=PLnlLJVQXId1wgqduk0jnkMeP0RPkOPPGe&index=67&t=14s

[eleny]

13. Just finished Saturday evening - Random thoughts

Enforcing patriarchy - women teach it to their kids no matter the class strata. Taught and reinforced. It's why I appreciate the struggle between Elif and Omer. Right off the bat she's digging in her heels and he's acknowledging the benefits despite that they're in his wheelhouse.

But Palen takes the spotlight over and over. Arda most often respects her wisdom and direction. The women's observations and solutions aren't dismissed. So superiority goes back and forth between the genders in this story. It's no small thing that O keeps asserting that E enroll in the academy. She's got what it takes to be on his level as does Palen.

No wonder it was so popular in Turkey. Sometimes it felt like a tennis match that ended in a draw. A very good thing, imo. My husband and I have been together since 1976 and we're still playing that tennis match we started.

I still like the ending a whole lot. The producers left things open for more. But they don't really need to return to this story and perhaps jump the shark some day. We get the picture. I'm curiously drawn to the setting of the ending. This series didn't explore very much of Turkey or even Istanbul. Given the number of episodes I thought they might. There were a lot of scenes in gritty spots. No travelogue like Winter Sun is right off the bat with the fishing village. It's okay by me. There was enough contrast with the area of Elif's family home to give us a sense of a city in transition.

It's a very secular show. I don't recall a single inevitable glimpse of Hagia Sophia. Although it's a Turksh production it was distributed elsewhere. The only time I noticed a mosque was when the camera panned over the town in the last episodes. Most of the prayer references throughout were by Omer's mom who is iconic, imo.

Tayyar as Trump has me nodding and chuckling! Bad guys have a way of hanging on. A combination of smarts and cunning makes a strong glue. Btw, I don't think we'd ever see Omer's solution on U.S. network tv in prime time.

The wrap up of the characters was a little rushed. Given how many episodes, they could have taken there time. But since they spent most of their precious last minutes on *the relationship* I'm willing to forgive any and every writing sin.

Btw, about the friend I mentioned a while back. The one I thought would never put up with how this story progresses – she's into it. She only recently asked if it progressed as slow in the future as it is right now around episode 15. I remembered also wondering about that back then. There was a little slump early one. But she's continuing now that she knows that it's only that first slow climb of the roller coaster ride that is BML.

Oops. I thought I was done. I'm grateful for the introduction to Turkish poets.

[bbgrunt]

14. some great observations

and congrats on finishing the whole series.

I think the interesting thing about some of these Turkish series is how the role of women is portrayed. I'm not clear on how much is an idealized picture vs. real life, but it seems that women have a much stronger role in Turkey than in some other predominantly Muslim countries. For example, baby girls are shown to be adored (rather than an economic burden) I suppose because they become their fathers' adoring minions. (ugh--bad thought: Ivanka) And historically Turkey has been a secular society

The roller coaster between Elif and Omer was quite interesting and personally instructive in seeing how such a relationship could be balanced and loving at the same time. It's a battle that never really ends! The Pelin/Arda pairing was really unexpected for me since it seemed improbable to highlight a woman who had no ambitions for love and marriage in such a family oriented society....but, in the end, she (like the fat girl in movies who loses weight and finally becomes popular) succumbs.

Yes, Elvan was iconic, and the most serene character, but I found myself getting irritated at her insistence that everything was the result of fate. I suspect that is my ingrained "American" ambition and striving coming through.

There appears to be a distinct difference between stories set in Istanbul or Izmir and other stories set in more tribal areas (Mardin, eg) that are much more provincial. But in both cases, most of the stories are more secular than one expects although certain patriarchal characteristics are always present.

I'm glad you enjoyed it and I've really enjoyed reading your observations and discussion about it. Too many, I think, are put off by either dealing with subtitles or the more intense and passionate presentation of material (and masculinity) to appreciate the finer aspects...... I hope your friend gets as much enjoyment from it. Maybe we can start a club.

So thanks, and if you're interested in expanding beyond Netflix, there are several websites (although they change frequently) that specialize in English subtitles of Turkish serials/movies. One is:

https://raindizi.com/

And finally, I do love how they emphasize smell as an aspect of attachment!

[eleny]

15. Scent of a Woman! (Beware Spoilers)

I'm so glad you mentioned how important personal scent is to these people. From lovers to those who lost someone to death. Even Huseyin's wife smells her husband's clothes in longing after all he did.

As far as Pelin goes, right from the start I saw her as the engineer of the Pelin/Arda train and never a caboose. She expressed that she wanted to hook up with him from the beginning. But he was married and she drew a deep line in the sand. Their friendship was long standing. Anything closer was always on her terms. She really is a rock and so often the conscience of their loyal little circle.

I never got to the point of irritation with Elvan's character. But now that you mention it I do agree that it could be downright syrupy for some viewers. One observation – Elif carries the words “unconditional love” on her back but Elvan winds up living them, even eventually for Huseyin.
I just finished Winter Sun and noted the unwavering mother figure in that story, too. So it's either that we need to expect her in Turkish stories or Winter Sun is a clone of BML. Can you tell I didn't like WS, lol?

About the difference between Istanbul and rural Turkey. There's a film that Engin A. starred in that took place in a rural town, If I Were A Cloud (Bir bulut olsam). Weeks ago I read a summary and it was pointed out how modern Istanbul is but that in the rural areas mores, folkways and thus practices can be medieval.

That probably touches on your observation about how Turkish daughters are portrayed. Something just came to mind since I've started to watch BML again. At Elif's birthday party her father notes how Elif is his only daughter who supports herself. She's his special one. But then we learn how he used her. I haven't thought all this through but Turkish tv producers and film makers sure have.

I hope Netflix gets to air more Turkish films. Maybe it's time for an email requesting specific ones. Eksi Elmalar (Sour Apples) sounds like a good one that's available on Netflix right now. Have you seen it? The synopsis, “In an eastern Turkish town, suitors knock on the door of the mayor and father of three beautiful daughters who choose to follow their own paths.” I'll give it a peek soon.

Btw, I went to Raindizi and tried to open a random film to see how it plays. Norton security blocked it due to a malicious intrusion attempt. I'll have to see what's up with that before I tell Norton to quit blocking. But it looks like a good source for movie titles to research and request on Netflix.

Watching BML again is kind of fun. I fast forward through all the crying. At least they always drink a lot of water to replenish. Water most often is the first solution to any problem for these people. One fun thing I noted was that Elif and Omer's first real contact was a shouting match. She's yelling at a baffled Arda about the girl being after her father's money, Omer hears her from the hallway and bursts in yelling. It only escalates from there. So right off the bat we know where those two are going. Funny how soon I forget details.

I'm an Outlander fan. After watching the series and reading the books I was so into it. I don't know if BML grabs me exactly like Outlander did. But it feels close.

[bbgrunt]

16. Oh, be still my heart!

Last edited Thu Sep 10, 2020, 09:47 PM - Edit history (1)

You mentioned a summary of BBO (Bir Bulut Olsam) which is my absolute favorite and source of my Engin devotion! Unfortunately, it is nearly impossible to find with English subtitles, although there are some with Spanish subtitles (really challenging for my long ago lessons)

I refuse to sign up for facebook, but there is one page that carries most of the BBO episodes but recently has become somewhat inactive:

https://www.facebook.com/EnginAkyurekUniversal/app/205521576149308

some of the censored episodes can be found at: (although your Norton might rebel)

https://dizi4u.com/bir-bulut-olsam-episode-3-with-english-subtitles/

I can't tell you how impressed I am with your research and interest. I can't even get anyone in my immediate (limited) circle to watch BML much less discuss it. So I hesitate yet am compelled to include another fan link to a overview of BBO (probably best watched after seeing the series):

&list=PLnlLJVQXId1wgqduk0jnkMeP0RPkOPPGe&index=66&t=0s

In addition, here is a talk show discussing BBO with main actors and the woman who wrote it:

&list=PLnlLJVQXId1wgqduk0jnkMeP0RPkOPPGe&index=102

So I'll try to settle down now and respond to the rest of your post. I initially refused to watch Outlander because I generally dislike semi-fantasy. But I too became enthralled by it. It certainly was a very special and well-done, beautifully acted series. I can't remember now why I broke my barriers and began to watch it, but I was glad that I did. It really transported one's reality.

I agree that Winter Sun and Intersection don't live up to BML's standard, but I haven't tried Eksi Elmaler yet since I too, spend time rewatching BML at times, and searching to find other Engin titles and rewatching them. For example, Engin is currently starring in a series called Sefirin Kizi (Ambassador's Daughter) whose production was halted in April due to Covid, but started up again this week. It, to my mind, is a little over-wrought (especially if you don't like crying) but again, the same themes show up where the role of women and patriarchy are the main focus of the story.

I only bring up SK because there is a very lucid writer that has been analyzing much of the content and Engin's role, named Navid Shahzad whose content has been showing up on another facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Engin-Aky%C3%BCrek-the-ACTOR-1514950665469546/notes/?ref=page_internal

Engin plays a character called Sancar Efe and his love is Nare. Shahzad has also written a book called Aslan's Roar (available on Amazon and on my xmas gift list) about the rise of the Muslim Hero through the use of media. I think this might be part of the Turkish media strategy for making exportable media that is more secular.

Anyway, in reference to Pelin--I was probably a little harsh and wasn't clear that she had been after Arda from the beginning......being a single professional myself, I get overly sensitive about societal pressures to marry and have children. And I love that scene where Omer breaks into the room when Elif is being interviewed--and then barges back in after having been shooed out--then stomps out hitting the door.

So I'll check out sour apples. I hope you get a chance to enjoy BBO!

edited to add:
1 The music in BBO is divine

2 I don't use Norton or any protection except what came with my windows 8.1 and haven't had any serious problems with the raindizi site. Sometimes things are a little slow and things freeze up, but I've watched a lot without problems using mozilla/firefox

[eleny]

18. Two thoughts with spoilage

First, thanks for the videos! I had to watch the first one with the synopsis of BBO. I'll be writing to Netflix letting them know how I appreciate the current Turkish offerings and include a wish list. BBO looks really good. My Spanish sucks! I took it in school and used it in my career. But reading fast paced closed captioning won't work. Hopefully Netflix will bring more attention to Turkish film & tv.
..........................

While watching BML for a second time, last night I realized that Melike doesn't annoy me this time around. I look forward to her mouthing off. Being stuck between two vastly different generations makes her important to me now.
...........................

I've been wondering why I mentioned Outlander. I got to thinking about Elif and Claire. Early on I viewed Claire as an epic hero character. I never got any feedback about it in the online Outlander group I belonged to back then. But I've held to that view. And then I realized that Elif fits the bill.

As in Outlander, the male lead is never a sidekick. In fact, Omer is the first person we see when his head pops up from behind that fabulous ancient wall ruin. He's definitely on a journey of his own and darkly dispenses Tayyar. He's our antihero. His characteristics fit that bill. Claire and Elif are both in the pantheon of the modern female hero sisterhood. Elif's journey affects the outcomes of her sisters. Without the Elif hero journey lens the outcome for Nilufer annoys me, at best. But now it makes sense. The whole story makes sense. Elif and Omer as yin and yang is appealing.

Btw, do you know where the opening scenes in episode one of BML were filmed? The atmosphere is extraordinary.

Since both series were produced by Ay Yapim I'm going to have to give 20 Minutes more of a look on Netflix. I started it the other night but went back to BML. I wasn't ready to commit to almost 60 episodes yet.

Oops, forgot something. In episode 25 Huseyin, mom and Omer are eating supper. H tells Omer that Omer will be able to transfer from Van to Istanbul. Mom throws out her arms to her left and right to pull each son into a hug when Huseyin winces in pain from his recent shoulder surgery. Omer cautions mom to be careful with Huseyin. Then he smiles at Huseyin and says, “You'll be a cripple!”.

Epic guide to the antihero
https://thewritingkylie.com/blog/the-epic-guide-to-character-creation-part-4-antihero-archetypes
The Epic hero
https://www.storyboardthat.com/articles/e/epic-hero

[bbgrunt]

19. well, this is in response to your later post--(two thoughts with spoilage) to counteract

unnecessary squishing of post widths.

Speaking of anti-heroes, BBO is definitely in this mold as well as the current SK series. As for the heroic female sisterhood, Elif surely fits the category, but I'm not clear on why that helps justify Nulifer's result. Perhaps if I imbibe a bit, it will be more apparent to me....not an insinuation about your observation, but my ability to connect dots.

Also, the initial footage of BML I believe was filmed in Van, although your later remembrance of the convo at dinner pointed this out....

I, as well, have communicated with Netflix but more specifically about Engin coverage. Surely they should have Fatmagul as well as BBO and a couple of his movies. Though I have watched many other Turkish series, I find most of them much less compelling and somewhat derivative. With the current rise of Netflix collaboration, however, (eg The Protector and Atiye) I am seeing the inevitable emphasis of commerce over art. This was already happening even without the Netflix collaboration since the commercial distribution of Turkish series has become big business in itself. Although BML did this to some extent, I will forever forgive it for the universal truths it so cleverly dealt with. Omer being totally incapable of understanding the "our song" concept was just perfectly played.

Well, I watched Eksi Elmalar. Nice costuming and scenery. I'll let you watch it before I give spoilers.

[eleny]

20. Nilufer's result - spoilers

I've been mulling her ending on and off for days now. I expected her to go it solo with the baby. But once I settled on Elif's hero role I looked at Asil. An unlikely pairing at first glance. I liked him a lot. Can't he be my neighbor? So open and accepting. He's the closest she'll ever come to finding what she needs.

And so Nilufer has to be getting what she needs, too. She was the baby and so spoiled. My first thought was that the relationship can't last. She's not wired for what he can give her. The bassinet scene began and I couldn't watch it.

Or maybe it was a gift from the writers to local viewers. Perhaps they were writing on the fly. After hearing from viewers they may have crafted an ending to satisfy those who wanted her wearing a baggy housedress and a baby off a nipple. I'll bet there were a lot of Fatmas out there waiting for Nilufer to "get hers".

Btw, spoil away! It can't ruin any of these stories for me. I'll watch EE tonight. After all the series watching it's time for a movie.

I'll include asking Netflix for Turkish art films when I write. Let them know that I'll watch the commercial stuff but expect them to seek out the thoughtful stories out there like BBO. It'll probably depend on their ability to get a copy with English subs.

Some last thoughts here. Can Elif accessorize or what? My girl even wears her bracelets in the shower. I really do love that character. High and mighty Omer pushes her away, she says, "Okay, fine." and he's lost. Rinse - repeat. The old culture has him in its clutches. But he took a deep dive into the Golden Palace of the Himalayas and came up with his eyes twinkling. There was no doubt that Tayyar's days were numbered.

[bbgrunt]

24. yes, I thought Asli's pairing at the end

was perfect except for the fact that he was so detached from her that he was willing to start a new life with Elif in Rome. A little weird, but then, Asli was unique herself. Maybe all she really needed was a distance relationship.

Nulifer made the break with her sisters in a long battle for independence and validation she only found with Fatih.....so how they end up is probably appropriate although fugitives in their own city without any means of support doesn't bode well for the long run.

Your diminished annoyance with Melike on second view is probably partially due to her redemption after being unshackled from the emotionally and physically abusive relationship with H. and being allowed to take charge of her own life and engage in something productive. Besides, she was really generous with Omer in the end--telling him to worry about himself and not his family duties.

I understand that there was a lot of controversy over the final episode--not sure exactly because it was mostly in foreign social media, but it had to do with Elif's ultimatum. Omer was being a dick and not willing to even broach the subject of leaving police work to enjoy a more normal life although that had been a focus throughout the series. I think there were a lot of Fatmas out there insisting that Elif was duty bound to follow his directives rather than force him out of that life path. The final joyous scenes of "you can't choose your family" and independence from historical family ties was viewed by some as very corrosive to the social order. (as it definitely was, for better or worse)

It's interesting that one of the things I found so intriguing about Turkish society (the family connections) is one of the things that this series ultimately denigrates. However, the negative patriarchal influences are kept intact through such family structures. So just like the push and pull of the relationship between Omer and Elif, there is a constant push and pull between family and individual independence.

I'm in Elif's camp, and wish I had her spidey sense of when and how to choose the battles to fight....and she certainly did know how to accessorize! Btw, I love this description:

High and mighty Omer pushes her away, she says, "Okay, fine." and he's lost. Rinse - repeat. The old culture has him in its clutches. But he took a deep dive into the Golden Palace of the Himalayas and came up with his eyes twinkling. There was no doubt that Tayyar's days were numbered.

[eleny]

33. Quick note of full disclosure!

The Golden Palace reference was from the Neil Simon play and movie of the same name, Brighton Beach Memories. One of my absolute all time favorites with Bob Dishy and so many other terrific actors. The writing and ensemble of actors are treasures.

I should have mentioned this as soon as you commented about it but got lost in our story discussion. He's a Brooklyn born kid like I am. And for other obvious reasons, you just don't take credit for what the master wrote!

[eleny]

21. P.S. What's the SK series? nt

[bbgrunt]

22. SK refers to Sefirin Kizi which I mentioned in an earlier post

It is currently running on Star tv and can be found with english subtitles at the dizi sites previously linked. It is heavy drama but tackles the same themes in almost an overly-wrought way (at least for most american tastes). It is actually very compelling and engaging for me. The second season has just started, the first season has 17 episodes.

Your very engaging writing style reminds me of the author I previously mentioned, Navid Shahzad who discusses Engin and his roles so lucidly. For example, she recently wrote of the 2nd season of SK:

"‘The New Season: Wonders and Possibilities’ by Navid Shahzad
Engin Akyürek - the ACTOR·Saturday, September 12, 2020·13 minutes
Every now and then, we hear a voice that stirs us, see a hero that leaves us breathless like Rhett Butler does at the end of the iconic movie Gone with the Wind (1939). A 21st C character like Sancar is the kind of hero that viewers have learned to cherish without necessarily revering him, since Akyürek plays him in a nuanced yet deliberately realistic manner. Bristling with intelligence, Sancar is as chaotic as a thunder storm, as unpredictable as the weather at sea and endearingly awkward at times, yet he always remains thrillingly alive and vibrant. Such is the energy exuded by the man that he can never enter a room quietly or without being noticed since he alters the very dynamics of every situation. Akyürek’s success lies in playing Sancar like a larger than life character hungering for love and reunion with his beloved, towering above the rest of the male characters despite his very human failings....."

I don't know how heavy your interest goes in this direction, and I don't want to bore you with the Engin stuff, but I'm doing the required imbibing and can't help myself.

I'll get back to Nulifer later.....

[eleny]

23. "Engin stuff"? Never boring

Although the ensemble cast of BML work together beautifully, his scenes are magnetic. About his acting style a friend of Spencer Tracy's, "...pinpointed his acting style as one of "selection", stating that he strove to give as little as was needed to be effective and reached "a minimum to make the maximum."". The Turkish way of using long silences and eye to eye combat or love making gives their actors the time it takes to develop that ability. Tayyar's silent yet manic jaw clenching, for example, is an astonishing scene stealer.

Switching topics..... I've checked out rain dizi's safety and found no problems noted except some content for children may be ill advised. So I opened Fatmagul. Just before that I looked for a summary of episode 1 of Sefrin Kizi since it's available on YouTube without English subtitles. But then I also found it on the rain dizi site and am saving it for later. Rain dizi is a feast.

Do you access rd on a tablet? I read that it's not optimized for phones or tablets. I only have an HD Fire tablet. But I routinely use a pc since we like a big screen. I did a lot of digital artwork and a big screen was a priority. My husband builds or pc's so they're powerful. Looks like I'm needing a new monitor and am glad. I can go bigger this time. Just in time for rain dizi! Also, last night I checked out the YouTube app on our tv and what a thrill. I can watch Turkish movies with English subs on much big screen. The sweeping vistas - Squee!

Do you think we should start a separate thread for each movie or series? Like you said these postings will get skinnier. This forum still feels like the right place since so much Turkish fare is streaming online.

[bbgrunt]

25. For Sefirin Kizi there is

another related website that also includes episode 18 that the others haven't yet posted:

https://serial4u.net/sefirin-kizi-episode-6-with-english-subtitles/

I'm not sure how these sites are run or organized, but they seem to be connected with something called promix tv. They also tend to appear and disappear so it's handy to have bookmarks to several different connections. Also, the episodes sometimes somehow get corrupted and you have to try their different servers to see an episode. All very mysterious. I donate minimal amounts to keep my conscience clear.

There are a lot of other sites that try to get you to enroll or pay a monthly premium, but I've not really engaged with those.

One last thing about SK--I would encourage you to read the Navid Shahzad explanations about the background of Efes and Agas and other elements of this drama to help with some of the cultural background of the story. (they can be found at: https://www.facebook.com/pg/Engin-Aky%C3%BCrek-the-ACTOR-1514950665469546/notes/?ref=page_internal

I do own a tablet and a smart phone which I never use. Strictly granny mode here. I have a desk top with a wonderful 27" screen which allows me to enjoy all the scenery. Don't have a tv.

I like your insight about acting and Turkish video style. And Tayyar was, along with the rest of the cast, really great. The thing that puzzled me about Engin was that I found myself enjoying his hot headed roles and I consider myself a natural born feminist to the core. I think it's partly the lead roles he chooses and their underlying feminist messages, but lord, I do love seeing him punch out the deserving and tearing up a room, and then be able to show such delicate emotional intelligence and nuance.

By the way, here is the fan made overview of Fatmagul:

&list=PLnlLJVQXId1wgqduk0jnkMeP0RPkOPPGe&index=68&t=52s

[eleny]

26. So the female lead in Fatmagul is also the lead in the current Netflix series, The Gift

I'm looking forward to seeing Fatmagul now that I've taken the leap to use Raindizi.

Btw, I like Omer's table kicking and John Wayne style punching, too. My husband isn't a violent guy. But he's remarked that, “Some guys only understand a rap in the mouth.” I don't ask.

And then there's Ege The Undeserving in BML. Omer warned him about his temper but Ege had to learn the hard way that the water was wet. I'm still applauding his bravery. How can a character introduced in the last episode stay in my heart like this? The Ay Yapim production company knows what they're doing.

[eleny]

28. We've been talking about the ending a little - Spoilers

Last night it finally occurred to me that Elif did exactly what she'd been asking Omer to do. As he suggested she do when they argued at P&A's wedding. It escaped me the first time around. She gave up everything and started over while waiting for him. Living on a shoestring “...as it should be.”.

As for Ege, who runs the pension... three months after the final breakup it was time for family to make a sacrifice for her. Asli and Ege are a modern couple. Married only one month. But Elif was still a mess and they had to rush into Plan B with Omer at the gates.

…............................

Last night during one kissing scene I'm sure I saw Elif give Omer a little tongue. The public was wild for BML. But Turkish censors must hate this series. They've been seriously cracking down on funding production companies that push the boundaries of Erdogan's sense of morality. I hope it never vanishes from Netflix. And I'll encourage Netflix to steer clear of series and films where forehead kissing is as far as love making goes. Bad enough that couples in bed have the covers neatly tucked down between them. It's fine for Turkish tv to show people getting beaten to a mash. But kissing on the lips sends their boxers up the crack. Phooey.

One thing that nags me. When Omer shows up late to P&A's wedding and he and Elif have the final argument he never tells her he's late because he solved his father's 25+ years old murder case. He tells her he received a sign telling him why he's in law enforcement but never explains. That's too much like American soaps. Not that it would have changed her mind. But still, ugh.

[bbgrunt]

30. I see you are thoroughly enjoying the 2nd view

I originally thought the same thing about Elif giving up everything the way she wanted Omer to, but in reality, she did not give up doing the thing she loved:jewelry making and design. It's debatable how much wealth she gave up since the firm was falling apart in bankruptcy already. Of course, starting the book store together was a new direction for them both.

Perhaps it was just a part of their own little sparring game, but I was annoyed when, at the final proposal, Elif essentially said "you had me when you came to the door, but I wanted to make you work for it" It sounded a bit sadistic/cruel, but like you said, he came up with a twinkle in his eyes after visiting the Golden Palace, and was forever smitten.

As for Ege, it is amazing to have someone show up in the final episode and be so memorable. He was quite the empath and free spirit.

When Omer showed up late to the wedding and simply says he received a sign about why he's in law enforcement, I felt that was a signal for Elif to ask about it, but she didn't even bat an eye and just ignores it for her own complaint even though it should have been part of the discussion. I guess there are some things where discussion only blurs the resolve and it's time to fish or cut bait.

I too, am wondering how the culture war of Erdogan vs. the little economic engine of media exports will play out. I wish them well, but the regressive forces are out in full around the world.

[eleny]

34. I agree ---- Spoilers

She gave up the chance to help build the business back up since her new line for men was looking like a hit. But the finances were down the tubes with everything mortgaged. It got dumped in Asil's lap. But at some point Elif had to slough off all that responsibility that landed too heavily on her shoulders.

Totally agree with your observations about the argument at P&A's wedding. At some point you just don't have any more f's left to give. A long time ago I wrote a poem about how sometimes forgiveness is futile. It reminds me of Elif in the moment she realized that Omer would never quit the force.
"this forgiving you
a bungee jump in winter
icy chords snapping"

About the proposal scene. The final one! Elif will be Elif just like she was when they were dancing at their wedding. I chalk it up to her revelation that she's actually been waiting for him. We find her at the seaside on the brink of giving up. So she's back to needling him as they had been back and forth. I remember when Omer listened to Arda's revelation that teasing Pelin was the only way he could flirt with Pelin. A shadow crossed Omer's face, I think because he realized that was how he'd been treating Elif. So maybe that never ends between them.

Btw, I checked out the very tail end of the last episode on YouTube the other day. I loved how some of the cast and the crew at the seaside shoot were all filmed by a drone waving to the audience. I could make out the actors who played Palin and Arda. It was a treat that I don't recall in the Netflix airing.

[bbgrunt]

31. The lead in Fatmagul and the Gift

is Beren Saat. The interesting thing is that both she and Engin entered a media competition for acting and both won, so they have know each other since the beginnings of their careers. From what I understand, most actors (and probably actresses) were recruited from the modeling business. I think the competition may have been an effort to introduce talent more explicitly into the field.

[eleny]

32. I like her a lot

The Gift isn't turning out to be a pull for me this season. I like the archaeology but now it's gotten just a little more way out than I hoped. But she's another one of those expressive faces that does more with less.

I started Fatmagul today on Raindizi and got as far as episode four. Today was a day when I didn't have much going on and since I got up very early I dove in. This is not going to be a marathon watch. Small doses of their conflict will go a long way. I can see viewing an episode maybe once a week.

Another reason being that I switched to Sefirin Kizi and got swallowed. Is her face mesmerizing or what? It could be the contrast with everyone else's look. The scenery is great and the story grabbed me right away. You know how it is when you immediately care about several characters. You know you're hooked. Episode two and Sancar is another louse even though those eyes told a different story when *she* first showed up. The woman takes the blame so far. I only started watching the second episode since they put the hook in deep at the end of the first. I'll wait to say more if I have any questions. I'll start another thread about it. Hope you do, though, since you've seen it already. Engin A. looks older in BML than in this series. More worn around the eyes works for me. I'm glad SK could resume production. Even if each episode is 2 1/2 hours. Whew...

[bbgrunt]

35. All I can say is

If you are watching you tube videos about the show, you are almost there. (that means I am not alone in my attachment) Next step: fan videos and instagram and twitter hashtags. Referring to the drone shot of the final episode I think the BML series was a happy place to work for the most part.

I agree about The Gift. Lasted about 3 episodes for me. I too love the stuff about Gobekli Tepe, but the show is just another supernatural fantasy exploitation. Beren has one of those sweet faces that are hard to ignore, but she surprises with her fury outbursts at times.

Fatmagul is a whole different pace. I only watched the entire thing after running out of other Engin material. In the end it was very interesting to see how they handled Kerem's trauma as well as Fatmagul. Too much of the story dwelt on the slow demise of the Yasaran's empire and family. Her original fiance, Mustafa, really lost everything including his mind. And if you thought Melike was annoying, meet Mukkades!

Sefirin Kizi is hypnotic for me, so 2.5 hours passes quickly. I didn't like Neslihan (Nare) at first--I think I was being protective--but she really has proven her acting chops in this and is one of his best leading ladies along with Elif. She is one of the up and coming next generation female actresses in Turkey. Sancar's character is really hard to take in the beginning episodes, but like the other roles he takes, he enjoys coming from behind and creating a character that is authentic, flawed, and ultimately lovable.

I'm not sure that Engin looks younger in SK than in BML, but those unshaven flashbacks were rather startling for me. I do love his hairy face and am okay with the buzz cut, but he is so transformed with a shaven face that I have a hard time reconciling the transition. He may have looked a little haggard in some shots of BML, but he acted a lot younger than he does in SK. Whatever age I'll bite. He taught me how really sexy eyelids can be.

Btw, your poem is stunningly chilling.

I, of course will be happy to engage about SK or other Engin enterprises. Happy watching SK!