A question for anybody in physical or occupational therapy, please. If you have a client

[niyad]

(90 years old, frail) who Is indicating that she cannot walk right now, is it normal protocol to yank her upright, to scream at her, to bump her knees forward to get her to move? Is this some new form of treatment with which I am unfamiliar? Or is this behaviour something that needs to be addressed? Am I overreacting to be horrified?

Thanks in advance.

[hlthe2b]

1. What the hell? If you witnessed that you need to make an official complaint. That is elder abuse.

[SheltieLover]

3. Absolutely!

[niyad]

5. I was already planning to, but needed to confirm that I was not losing

my mind.

[Quakerfriend]

12. I've worked in rehab & some

therapists are very inappropriate.
I myself have reported them.
Simply ask if your loved one can be followed by a different therapist. You can also ask for a specific therapy schedule- say early or late morning etc.

If a patient refuses therapy eg, because they are feeling tired OR want to sleep they will be cut pretty quickly.
Also, in order to continue they must make signs of steady progress or insurance co. will want to cut them.
This is sometimes the reason therapists can be more ‘aggressive’ with a patient- they are trying to get them going knowing they are about to be cut.

So sorry for you and your loved one…. I wish insurance companies would allow those undergoing rehab more time.

[hlthe2b]

14. For a family to not complain but merely ask for another therapist means that person will abuse

others...

This MUST be reported. If they are afraid of the institution's administration retaliating, EVERY state that receives Medicare and Medicaid (i.e., all of them) must respond to such reports.

Here: State Resources -- National Center on Edler Abuse:
https://ncea.acl.gov/Resources/State.

At the link, click on the state or territory below to see a directory listing of state reporting numbers, government agencies, state laws, state-specific data and statistics, and other resources.

If the situation is serious, threatening, or dangerous, call 911 or the local police for immediate help.

You may also contact Eldercare Locator on weekdays for state-specific information at 800-677-1116.

[niyad]

16. Thank you so much for this information. Bookmarking, adding to my phone.

[Quakerfriend]

19. Oh, I totally agree!

Yes, be very specific about what was witnessed too.

[Dorian Gray]

24. Ditto

If this happened to you or a loved one, I am SOOOOOO sorry. If you witnessed it, please take note of time/place/name and report it. This shouldn't happen.

[redwitch]

2. You are not overreacting!

I am horrified just reading about it!

[niyad]

6. I am still shaking.

[elleng]

4. NOT possible. COMPLAIN. Remove from that service.

My daughter's the o therapist, does children, but I'm sure she'd agree, LEAVE that abuser.

[niyad]

7. Thank you. I was pretty sure this is not normal protocol, but it has been a while

since I had any involvement with PT or OT.

[KT2000]

8. they sent my sister to PT

she could hardly walk. The therapist quickly said, there is something else wrong here, get to the ER which she did. She had a tumor on her spine - Stage 4 lung cancer. The takeaway is that a good therapist is part of the healing community, not the torture community. Report this person please.

[elleng]

9. Absolutely.

[niyad]

11. I know that PT and OT are part of the healing teams., and I bless them. Have two friends

In two different PT programs right now, working wonders. That was why I was so shocked.

[Irish_Dem]

10. As someone who keeps breaking bones, I have been a PT patient for many years now.

With different PT companies and physical therapists.

Some PTs are more like cruel drill sergeants who scream and yell to the point I have been in tears.

This is abnormal and abusive. And potentially dangerous.

When I looked for new PTs I speak to the manager and state I will not put up with anyone yelling, bullying or putting his hands on me harshly.

I don't mind working hard, don't mind some pain, or being uncomfortable. But I am not going to be yelled at and used as a punching bag.

1. I suggest you report his therapist to management. This needs to be addressed.
2. This therapist is especially dangerous given this patient is frail and 90 yrs of age.
3. You are not overacting at all, it is horrifying.
4. The family needs to ask for another therapist. Ask for someone kind and gentle.

[niyad]

15. Thank you for sharing your personal experience. I did not know that one can

request a specific personality type, although I should have.

[Irish_Dem]

18. They should know better, a 90 yr old frail person is not training to be a football linebacker.

They should have known what kind of treatment plan to use. And what kind of style to use.

This is a person who needs gentle manipulation or exercise. And someone kind and patient.

One time I was in a rehab facility for 6 weeks with patients older than myself.
I was shocked to see the older patients treated badly like you describe because they could not complain.

Get a different therapist or different PT company. Let them know what you expect.
And then keep an eye on things.

There are wonderful PTs who have literally enabled me to walk today.
I have had enough fractures that my ability to walk was in question.
I credit the PTs for getting me back on my feet and I now walk two miles a day.
And the PTs were pleasant, positive, encouraging.

Yes I know they can be tough taskmasters, and keep prodding me when I want to give up.
And sometimes it hurts a lot. But if you trust the PT and you know they are on your side you are OK with it.
But as I am a younger than the patient you describe.

[Frustratedlady]

13. Absolutely not!

I'm presently receiving Home Health including OT and PT. No way would they get away with that kind of treatment or even think of doing such horrible things to their client(s). All of my therapists are helpful, considerate and kind.

I'm not sure who you should contact, but do so asap. They should be registered in the county or hospital and should not be allowed near a patient if that is the way they perform their therapy/treatments.

[niyad]

17. Thank you so much.

[Irish_Dem]

20. I know, this story pisses me off so much.

Good PTs and OTs can be a godsend. I hate it when they are worthless and cruel and actually injure patients.

BTW I really liked my OTs. They helped me so much in terms of day to day living.

[Ka-Dinh Oy]

21. A physical therapist pushed my ex to hard to do the therapy and caused him to rebreak his hip.

The the insurance he is on would never let him sue. Sad thing is he has pretty much given up on life because of it.

I can not remember the name of the insurance but it is the worst insurance that anyone in Washington state can have. He is on disability and having no money to do anything about it is out and more than likely there are no lawyers that would come within a mile of it.

My personal problem with some was that they did not do enough.

[Trueblue Texan]

22. Doesn't sound like professional behavior...

Sometimes we can speak sharply to patients if they are doing something unsafe and we need them to listen to us immediately to prevent an injury or fall. Sometimes our words can sound clipped and very abrupt in the case of a dementia patient who struggles with verbal processing: the fewer the words to process, the less difficulty the patient has following directions--also we can get loud with hearing impaired patients. Sometimes we even stand in front of the patient and block their knees with our own knees to help support them when we stand them up. All of these techniques are established therapeutic techniques.

But we absolutely would never bump the backs of the knees from behind to get her moving faster. Sometimes with Parkinson's patients, you thump the muscles to stimulate them to move, as when the patient "freezes" as often happens in those patients. But all of this is done with respect and the patient and/or the family should be educated by the therapist so they understand the purpose of these types of strategies.


It sounds like it may be a situation of abuse. I'd talk to their supervisor immediately. If you don't get results call the state adult protective services.

[csziggy]

23. No, that is not acceptable at all - report the therapist

After my mother died at 97 with severe Alzheimer's the manager of the home health care company sent me a video of Mom with a physical therapist. Mom had fallen and cracked her hip and once it healed needed help getting back on her feet.

The therapist not only had to deal with this frail 96 year old but with the fact that she could not really understand much any more. He was amazing - gentle, patient, but persistent until he got her on her feet and moving at least a little.

If I had seen what you described, I would have gone after that therapist, even though it would have been long after the fact.