"Queers for Palestine?". Maher mentioned them in his "New Rules" in search of sanity

[question everything]

Cross posting from GD

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218610904

What? was my first reaction. Gays are frowned upon even persecuted in Muslim cultures. When the secular president of Iran visited here some 15 years ago and appeared in front students and was asked about gays in Iran, he replied that there were no gays in Iran and the students just laughed.

So I went searching and found an interesting essay in a site called Queer Majority.

“Queers for Palestine and the Death of Irony” by Armin Navabi

(snip)

On the surface, “Queers for Palestine” attempts to meld LGBT advocacy with Palestinian liberation, a juxtaposition that has precipitated a whirlpool of ridicule and criticism due to the fact that LGBT rights scarcely exist within the Muslim world, and the Palestinian territories are no exception. The slogan has been widely satirized with variations like “Chickens for KFC” or “Blacks for the KKK”, which highlight the basic lack of awareness of just how incompatible the values of the Western left are with the Islamic right they so readily champion.

The reality of the situation could not be more stark. Though it has much room to improve, Israel is at the forefront of LGBT rights in the Middle East. In Israel, LGBT people are visible members of society with legal protections, civil rights, and a plurality of public acceptance.

Palestine, by contrast, is quite a different story. The UCLA Williams Institute’s 2021 global report on LGBT acceptance rated Israel 44th out of the 175 countries/territories examined. Palestine came in at 130, behind Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Georgetown University likewise placed Palestine 160th out of 170 countries on their women’s peace and security index, in good company with most of the region. Amnesty International’s 2020 report on human rights highlights the criminalization of male same-sex relationships in Gaza, punishable by up to 10 years' imprisonment, with a conspicuous absence of legal protections against anti-LGBT discrimination or harassment. This lack of civil rights has led hundreds of gay and bi Palestinians to flee to Israel to escape persecution. One such refugee, Ahmad Abu Marhia, a 25-year-old gay Palestinian man, was living under asylum in Israel. In 2022, he was kidnapped and beheaded in the West Bank city of Hebron. His murderers uploaded footage of the killing to social media.

(snip)

Another disconcerting element of “Queers for Palestine” is that it popped up in prominent left-wing anti-Israel/pro-Palestine rallies in the immediate aftermath of Hamas’s terrorist attacks, before Israel had the chance to respond. As such, there is no way to interpret this slogan and the surrounding leftist fervor except as a signal of support not merely for Palestine, but specifically for Hamas, the jihadist movement with the explicit aim of eradicating the state of Israel. It's imperative to understand that Hamas, as detailed in its 1988 Covenant, is propelled by a fundamentalist Islamist ideology with the goal not only of eliminating all Jews but also conquering the world — just like ISIS. Senior Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar was recorded saying, “The entire planet will be under our law, there will be no more Jews or Christian traitors.”

More..

https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/queers-for-palestine-and-the-death-of-irony

[Deep State Witch]

1. I Have a Trans Friend

Who constantly posts "Free Palestine" memes (probably generated by Iran). I love him dearly, but I don't like being told that I support genocide when I tell him that people like him would be executed in Palestine.

[nocoincidences]

2. I have the same questions

about American women supporting Hamas.

That is so seriously f**ked up that I don't even have words for it.

[nycbos]

5. That's the point.

Some people are beyond logic.

[nycbos]

3. Chickens for KFC

[nycbos]

4. Watch the full clip

&t=2s

Not only are their "Queers For Palestine" put one on the far left are cheering on the Houthi terrorists.

[question everything]

6. Thanks

[nycbos]

8. Team Sanity

[vercetti2021]

7. As someone who is trans

Na I don't like any religion that wants me dead. Sorry for the people there but fuck your religion

[SouthernDem4ever]

9. Anyone who values personal liberties and freedom

would not be advocates for Palestine, or any other government that want's religious control over everyone.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. They are the leftist version of "Log Cabin Republicans".

I saw an article recently (and I can't fucking find it, I thought it was on LGBTQ Nation, but noooooo!), where these dipshits are not planning to vote for Biden (or are considering 3rd party, same diff). This bullshit has gone beyond cutting one's nose off despite one's face, this is SLITTING ONE'S OWN THROAT., and the throats of everyone else like them, as well as multitudes of other minorities. They are beyond the category of "useful idiot", they are just small-minded, ill-informed, performative asshole bigots.

ETA: Anti-Semitism has become more en vogue in the GLBT community over the past several years and it is disgusting.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. Let's look at the logic here

Muslims and Islamic people are generally/statistically anti-lbgt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_and_Islam

Even in the US where Muslims are far more accepting there is a very slight majority view opposed to
LGBT rights.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/muslim/views-about-homosexuality/

They even united to remove the pride flag in one Michigan city:

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/06/15/michigan-lgbtq-pride-flag-ban/

Does this mean that LGBTQ people should be opposed to Muslims rights and civil liberties?

Of course not!

But Bill Maher, who is a giant transphobe (just Google “bill maher, transphobia”) and misogynist, and the author of that article use the same logic to say just that.

This totally ignores that many of the Palestinians getting killed are themselves LGBTQ. It ignores that Israel blackmails lgbt people to spy for them or threaten to out them to their families. That same-sex marriage and trans rights really aren’t things in Israel. That one politician called himself a proud fascist homophobe. That in 2005 fundamentalist Jews, Muslims, and Christian united to rally against lgbt rights in Jerusalem?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/av8b5j/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Israel

https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-my-voters-dont-care-im-a-homophobic-fascist-but-my-word-is-my-word/amp/

https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/christian-jewish-and-muslim-clerics-unite-to-prevent-jerusalem-gay-parade

Even worse, the article conflates opposition to the military action of Israel or support for the people of Palestine with support for Hammas which isn’t true. It is bad faith argument at best and rainbow washing at worst. It is also arguably bigoted against lgbtq people suggesting that the only reason one of us would support a cause is if they support us first. It is also harmful to lgbtq rights on both sides. It makes Palestinian lgbtq people look duplicitous to other Palestinian people further solidifying lgbt opposition in the region while at the same time giving support to Israel’s right wing who want to curtail lgbt rights in general.

This is the view of multiple lgbtq people, groups, and advocates:





https://xtramagazine.com/power/politics/pinkwashing-israel-war-in-gaza-lgbtq-259565

https://truthout.org/articles/lgbtq-voices-are-increasingly-speaking-up-for-palestinians-despite-backlash/

https://www.them.us/story/lgbtq-solidarity-palestine-saed-atshan

…

Ultimately I rather not have this conflict brought into the lgbt room AT ALL as right now we are facing the possible rise of the most hateful and bigoted Republican Party ever. A party who want to commit full out genocide of trans people and the revocation of all lgbt rights in general. A party who could possibly turn this country into an authoritarian hell hole via project 2025

https://www.advocate.com/news/project-2025-republicans-maga

Not is not the time to divide ourselves!

[question everything]

12. I am not sure to which "article" you are referring. If the OP, it was not written by Maher

but by Armin Navabi and published in "Queer Majority."

I am not gay but was taken aback by the existence of such a group.

I don't doubt that there are gays in Gaza but they hide their identities.

it is known that Muslims do not view gays favorable; If you will read the complete article you will find images of gays being hanged in Iran.

You seemed to have put extra effort to defame Israel - nothing new on these pages - and started with a reluctant acknowledgment that, yes, Muslims are anti-gay.

Yes, gays, like others, should follow their desire to condemn anyone they want, but to support Palestine which, these days, mean brutal, sadistic Hamas is a bit bizarre.

[LostOne4Ever]

13. The article I was referring to was the one by Queer Majority

Nor was I claiming Maher was the author said article. I specifically said “Maher and the author of the article” to show they aren’t the same person.

The very title refers to a new rules segment on Maher’s show so I felt it necessary to reply to that as well.

I did not defame Israel as everything I said is factual and its reputation is not been harmed. Rather what i did was point out that it is not perfect on lgbt rights and its treatment of lgbt Palestinians has been anything but exemplary. Especially from the point of view of LGBT Palestinians.


I read the entire article before commenting.

SOME Muslims are anti-lgbt. Not all. There are many who are allies. Just like many Christians are anti-lgbt but some are allies. This is another problem with the types of articles like the one you linked, they can be used to promote Islamophobia.

I specifically used the term “statistically” to avoid the association of Muslim= anti-lgbt bigotry.

Muslims are not the enemy. Palestinians are not the enemy. Bigotry appropriating religion to support massacring innocent people is the enemy. While how to respond to that bigotry is a complicated issue the solution is not more bigotry.

Yes, gays, like others, should follow their desire to condemn anyone they want, but to support Palestine which, these days, mean brutal, sadistic Hamas is a bit bizarre.

No supporting Palestine does not mean supporting Hamas. No more so than saying that opposing Dubya’s War and supporting the Iraqi people was supporting Hussein or Bin Laden.

People can refer to “support Palestine” to mean they oppose the massive civilian casualties caused by the military action or the treatment they have received from the government of Israel. It can mean thinking that the people should have the right to a state. That does not mean one supports Hammas. No more than saying that Florida deserves to have their own state government means supporting DeSantis.

Supporting the innocent people getting killed there and the right to a state is what is meant by saying things like Queers for Palestine by most supporters.

This is a bad faith argument meant to divide the lgbt community here. We can not afford to allow ourselves to be divided at this time. Dems HAVE to win and keep winning the White House/ congress until the Supreme Court is returned to some sense of balance.

Otherwise we are risking Project 2025 just so that you can cheer leader your side in the I/P conflict. I am NOT going to engage any further if that is your goal. There is an entire I/P group for that.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. There is no logic in your wall of words; only excuses and misdirection.

When "Queers" are marching with banners like the one in the OP, then this IS the group to have those discussions and they, IMO, are DISGUSTING. If they want to protest Israel; fine; but do it as a collective, especially given the regime they are supporting. The cartoon is fucking insulting and nothing more than a false equivocation. SHAME!

"Not is not the time to divide ourselves!"

Perhaps we aren't the ones to which you need to communicate your feelings and concerns, because the ones here aren't actively supporting an anti-LGBT group in the name of "humanity."

[LostOne4Ever]

15. Palestine is region not a group

There are queer Palestinians. They are getting hit by bombs just as much as the cis-het ones. There are pro-lgbt Palestinians. They are severely oppressed but they exist.

You are broadbrushing an entire region and it’s people and conflating Hamas with Palestine. LGBT people who support Palestine (which the majority of them mean they oppose their treatment by Israel and Palestine’s right to statehood) is not the same as supporting an anti-lgbt group. Is saying that the people of Texas deserve democracy the same as supporting the Republican Party? Regions and the people of the region are not the same as individual groups.

What false equivalency is the cartoon making? No where does it say Palestine and Israel are the same. It is defending lgbt people for supporting Palestine. It is pointing out that lgbt Palestinians are also getting hit by bombs. That is literally it. It is also by a stalwart LGBT advocate.

I get why you are reacting negatively but you are adding context that is not there. You are one of the most passionate advocates for Equality for LGBT people of all stripes on this site. Surely you can see how this is only meant to divide our community.

The article in question is meant to divide and it is succeeding.

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Not wasting my time on these Log Cabin assholes. n/t

Last edited Mon Jan 22, 2024, 04:53 AM - Edit history (1)

[LostOne4Ever]

17. BTW, Queer Majority is a rightwing anti-trans site

It is run by a straight guy who is trying to angle it as another LGB alliance type of group:

https://clareflourish.wordpress.com/2023/06/20/queer-majority/

“Queer Majority” is an anti-LGBT site. It publishes long essays purportedly of interest to queer people, and attacks trans rights. In its first “issue” in 2018 it had an essay rejecting “gender ideology” and claiming nonbinary is a sexist concept reinforcing gender stereotypes. In reality, nonbinary is a way of liberating from them.

From its about page its attack begins to be clear. It says there is majority support for LGBT rights, but LGBT “extremists”, a “vocal minority of radical activists”, support “authoritarian” policies. It wants “liberal values” not “needlessly divisive identity politics”. While it says it is for LGBT rights, it does not mention trans, only gender nonconformity.

Its straight editor writes that Queer is Cool, despite having grown up as a Bush-supporting conservative from a conservative religious background. He says “haters” compared him to William F. Buckley. He opposes identitarianism, which he says makes writers not objective, and calls the word “demisexual” unintentionally amusing.

That essay linked to one called “Victimhood is one helluva drug” attacking trans man Chase Strangio. The writer, Ben Appel, says children presenting at gender clinics would grow up to be LGB not T if given proper emotional support- as if psychologists at those clinics don’t consider the possibility, and give PBs out like sweeties. Strangio, attracted to men, felt seen as a man when he was called a “faggot”. Appel calls that insensitive. “Strangio doesn’t know the gay male struggle.” Similarly, I welcomed the words “slut” and “whore”, because they affirmed my womanhood even as they insulted me.

Just read the about statement:

https://www.queermajority.com/about1

In the liberal world, a clear majority of people support LGBT rights. However, many are turned off by extreme rhetoric that supports authoritarian policy proposals. They are alienated by a vocal minority of radical activists who falsely claim to speak for the LGBT community. In this respect, QM stands up for that silent majority against extremists of all persuasions.

…

Together, these three meanings represent QM's vision. Everyone, including cis straight people, benefits from sexual and romantic liberty. Exclusive homosexuality, like exclusive heterosexuality, is just one part of a wide, dynamic, and inclusive spectrum of human sexuality. These rights must be preserved, and they should be spread worldwide - so that people everywhere can live a free and fulfilled life. This will be achieved by standing up for the liberal values that make such progress possible - not by perpetuating endless discord through needlessly divisive identity politics.

So many rightwing buzz words.

It even has an article promoting the extremely transphobic and debunked Autogynephilia theory by Ray Blanchard:

https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/the-forbidden-knowledge-of-autoheterosexuality

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Autogynephilia

https://juliaserano.medium.com/autogynephilia-and-anti-trans-activism-23c0c6ad7e9d

https://www.transgendermap.com/politics/psychology/ray-blanchard/?amp

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ray_Blanchard

Another article blaming trans activists for the rise of rightwing hate:

https://www.queermajority.com/essays-all/crossing-the-line


Here they are defending gender critical Feminists… better known as Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists/ TERFS!!!


This is site TRYING to divide the LGBT community.