James Martin, S.J.: We need to build a bridge between LGBT community and the Catholic Church.

[UrbScotty]

As you know, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Catholics are called to treat the homosexual person with “respect, compassion and sensitivity” (No. 2358).

What might that mean? Let’s meditate on that, and on a second question as well: What might it mean for the L.G.B.T. community to treat the church with “respect, sensitivity and compassion”? Of course, L.G.B.T. Catholics are part of the church, so, in a sense, those questions imply a false dichotomy. The church is the entire people of God, and it is strange to discuss how the people of God can relate to a part of the people of God. So, in good Jesuit fashion, let me refine our terms. When I refer to the church in this discussion I mean the institutional church—that is, the Vatican, the hierarchy, church officials and the clergy.

Let us take a walk on the first lane of the bridge, the one leading from the institutional church to the L.G.B.T. community, and reflect on “respect, compassion and sensitivity.”

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2016/10/30/james-martin-sj-we-need-build-bridge-between-lgbt-community-and-catholic-church

[uriel1972]

1. Um...

When they stop saying I'm possessed by demons, unnatural, a bigger threat than nuclear war and so on.. I will consider it.

[UrbScotty]

3. I've been out for who-knows-how-long and I still haven't heard that one.

[uriel1972]

5. As for the last one...

https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-strongly-criticizes-gender-theory-comparing-nuclear-arms

Gotta keep up with the latest slanders my friend.

[UrbScotty]

6. More than two years old is latest? LOL

[uriel1972]

7. Hmmm perhaps not...

but you had some catching up to do it seems, if you hadn't heard that one

[UrbScotty]

8. Those who write off the Catholic Church as anti-LGBT seem to have some catching up to do!

[uriel1972]

9. Erm...

it's current Pope said whilst a cardinal that same-sex marriage was a plot by Satan... When and only when (or perhaps if and only if) it stops treating LGBTQI people as abnormal and unworthy of respect will I treat the institution with respect.

When it stops organising and/or funding campaigns against same-sex marriage, transgender people and other sexual minorities, then I will consider respect.

Oh the RCC grudgingly allows gay people in it's church, I acknowledge, but and it's a big but, because they can't marry their loved ones they can't have a sexual relationship without committing sin and I believe their are consequences for that in the ideology of the RCC.

It has hurt a great many people in the past over this, it does now and by the looks will well into the future. A big demonstration of institutional change on it's behalf is necessary to demonstrate the goodwill needed to build a relationship bridge.

Note I am well aware that individual and groups of RCC members are not anti-LGBTQI, but the doctrines of the RCC are.

[UrbScotty]

10. Which is kind of the point of Fr. Martin's book. Both the Church AND the LGBT community

need to actually try to have a dialogue.

[uriel1972]

11. In order for there to be a dialogue...

both sides need to be willing to talk. I am more than willing to talk, but the other side seems far to busy 'putting the boot in'.

[UrbScotty]

12. Have you tried talking to anyone?

[uriel1972]

13. No...

I'm too busy trying to avoid being kicked in the head.

[UrbScotty]

14. Thanks for proving my point. Have a great weekend!

[uriel1972]

15. Sorry,

Your possession of rose colored glasses doesn't obviate the need for me to protect myself...

You want to talk to people who would quite happily spend eternity watching you being tortured in Hell and perhaps help you on your way there then knock yourself out.

I will wait for some sign that they are willing to act in good faith before I expose myself to possible harm. I call that sensible, evidence based policy.

[UrbScotty]

16. You've proved your unwillingness to talk to anyone about it

...but you're more than willing to make broad-brush statements about one of America's (and the world's) predominant religions.

Don't do what you accuse others of doing. Minds work best when open.

Nonetheless, thanks for kicking my message and keeping it at the top of the LGBT forum!

[uriel1972]

17. Uh no...

I've made personal safety a condition of any talks... You know a flag of truce...

On the other issue of broad brush statements, I have known many Catholics and considered them good friends and good people, it is the INSTITUTION that I do not trust.

Would you say that you trust the Republican Party to engage in an open and honest dialogue? I know good people who vote conservative as well, that doesn't make the INSTITUTION trustworthy.

Open minds yes... but personal safety is the first issue... Not everyone lives in an open and supportive environment with family and friends you can rely on. I am not so fortunate to have that privilege.

[UrbScotty]

18. If they don't harm me - and they haven't - they won't harm you.

And my orientation is not exactly a state secret.

Other than being a white male, I'm hardly privileged. I don't have much money. I'm young. I'm not exactly outgoing.

But I'm still here.

[uriel1972]

19. Okay... be our ambassador then...

I set out my condition for a fruitful dialogue, which was a ceasefire. A not unreasonable request for peace talks.I also said some members of the RCC do not have our best interests at heart. Not really controversial, otherwise why do we need this dialogue.

You decided from those positions that I am anti-Catholic and Close-Minded. How do you expect to have dialogue with someone if you don't listen to what they say and try to empathize with their position.

As for the last message title... well I don't know what to say. So I wont say anything, apart from I am dropping out of this lack of discussion.

[lunasun]

2. One explained to me it s like how they welcome the struggling alcoholic

https://www.democraticunderground.com/113749515

[UrbScotty]

4. "Paprocki gonna Paprocki," as they say.

Lots of us would welcome you here in Michigan, though.