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Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:01 AM

 

"Gay, transgender movements need a divorce: Column"

Most INFURIATING article I have seen in some time.

Gay, transgender movements need a divorce: Column

Make no mistake, the gay community needs to file for divorce with the trans community. They are no longer working toward the same goals, and South Dakota is Exhibit A. The issues facing the transgender community today are wholly different and separate from those facing the gay community.

Unlike members of the trans community, who are working against their biology and trying to change who they are physically, gay or lesbian people are trying to be nobody but themselves. They are not seeking surgery or hormone treatments.They love the same gender; they donít want to be a different gender.

That is a great distinction in the post-Obergefell world. In order to achieve marriage equality, gay people were not trying to upend the social construct of marriage; they were trying to obtain participation rights. Huge difference.

For centuries, marriage in the West had been between two people and premised on the notions of monogamy and stability. It is true that marriage had evolved over the years ó from the movement away from arranged marriages to the acceptance of interracial marriages ó and same-sex marriage was part of that evolution.


I am not Transgender, but i am gay. I will NEVER abandon or leave behind our Trans allies! To even suggest so is fucking disgusting beyond belief! Our rights would be NOWHERE today without the out front and center support the Trans side of our community has done on the front lines!

Any person who identifies as G B or L and would abandon our T's is completely undeserving of the advances in equal rights that our "T"'s have been SOOOO much a part of helping us achieve.

NO COMPROMISE ON EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ANY OF OUR SEGMENTS!!!!

Equality for Gays
Equality for Lesbians
Equality for Bisexuals
Equality for our Transgenders

I, for one stand in solidarity with you.. period.

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Arrow 16 replies Author Time Post
Reply "Gay, transgender movements need a divorce: Column" (Original post)
Amimnoch Feb 2016 OP
monicaangela Feb 2016 #1
enlightenment Feb 2016 #2
Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #3
Amimnoch Feb 2016 #6
TygrBright Feb 2016 #4
Amimnoch Feb 2016 #5
TygrBright Feb 2016 #8
Amimnoch Feb 2016 #9
TygrBright Feb 2016 #10
Iggo Feb 2016 #7
Meldread Feb 2016 #11
Old Union Guy Feb 2016 #12
LostOne4Ever Mar 2016 #13
Amimnoch Mar 2016 #14
Behind the Aegis Mar 2016 #15
beergood Mar 2016 #16

Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 11:16 AM

1. Good for you Amimnoch

When it comes to equal rights for all, we should be for just that. Equal rights for all. I don't distinguish between gay rights, rights for minorities, human rights of any kind. We need to support all who find themselves an object of discrimination.

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:30 PM

2. "Working against their biology"

I read the entire piece, to be fair, but that comment sums up the issue the author has - ignorance and bigotry rolled up in a conservative mindset and tied with a rainbow ribbon (based on the description of the author at the bottom of the editorial).

This isn't a new argument, however. My son (who is trans*) told me years ago about running afoul of a leading figure in the San Francisco gay community - a political activist who flatly rejected the idea that my son could "ever be male".

When my son moved to the UK and started working with an LGBTQ charity there, I asked him if it was associated with Stonewall - the leading advocacy group in the nation. He said no; because Stonewall believed that supporting "T" undermined the political advancement of L, G, and B. They have somewhat changed their tune of late; some progress, at least.

Is there a difference in the drives and needs of LGB and T? Sure. Should it be used as a political football? Hell, no. Unfortunately, there is in any group a strong element of "we worked hard, don't ride our coattails" - whether it is a deserved response or no - and that drives a lot of this desire to toss the trans* community under the bus.

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 12:52 PM

3. Bigoted shit stirring conservative Joseph R Murray 11...he's a nasty piece of work.....

 

He was a staff attorney for the American Family Association and served on Pat Buchananís 2000 presidential campaign. Then he 'changed' and started baiting in this fashion. He is constantly critical of LGBT politics.

He is as full of hot air as his past is full of creepy alliances and AFA and Buchanan were both very well known anti gay forces when he worked for them by choice. By choice.


LGBT are a family and that is how it is, if Joe does not like it he can go back to the AFA or Uncle Pat.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 02:19 PM

6. Damn skippy. We can expand our umbrella to include more, but we don't

 

take anyone out from under it.

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:51 PM

4. Fuck 'em. They will NOT divide us.

Certainly not with such transparent, ignorant, bigoted shit-stirring.

As a "B" (in my case I always say it stands for "bonobo" do I occasionally encounter some 'tude? Or get a little flak from those with a "more oppressed than thou" mindset? Well, yeah, sure.

Just because I get a little crap now and then from family members, doesn't mean we're not still a family.

FUCK you, Murray.

WE ARE ALL QUEER. AND IT'S A DAMN' FINE THING TO BE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

Deal with it. We're all around you. We're everywhere. We're not in the closet anymore and we're never going back. We have rights, we have voices. We're not gonna sit down and shut up.

So, my recommendation is that you print out a hard copy of this terrified weasel-yammer. Then fold it, until it's all corners.

Then use it for a suppository.

disgustedly,
Bright

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #4)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 02:08 PM

5. Just to be clear:

 

So, my recommendation is that you print out a hard copy of this terrified weasel-yammer. Then fold it, until it's all corners.


I'm assuming you're addressing that to the author of the article and not the OP, right?

I'm 100% with you.

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #5)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 03:09 PM

8. Yes, exactly. Sorry, should have made it clearer. n/t

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Response to TygrBright (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 04:49 PM

9. NP, I'd figured that's what you meant.

 

I just wanted to make sure you didn't misunderstand the post and think that was my position.

It absolutely is not!

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Response to Amimnoch (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 05:12 PM

10. Totally get it! And thank you for posting.

Yanno what the upside of this is?

It's classic goal-post moving.

They're conceding they can't force all the skeery GAY people back into the closet, so they're trying this obvious and pathetic bit of pond-scummage.

appreciatively,
Bright

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 02:26 PM

7. Obvious attempt to divide and conquer is obvious.

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 07:05 PM

11. This is absolute trash, and the author is trash as well.

Here is all we really need to know about the author of this piece:
Joseph R. Murray II is a lawyer, conservative commentator, former campaign official for Pat Buchanan, and author of Odd Man Out. He is also gay.


He's a traitor and an enemy within.

Now to address his central point directly:
The issues facing the transgender community today are wholly different and separate from those facing the gay community.


This is absurdly false. Everyone united under the rainbow flag, every member of the queer community, faces discrimination that arises from sexism and patriarchal culture. It all comes down to enforcement of gender roles and gender norms.

I am shunned and mistreated because I am a man who loves other men sexually and romantically. Society and culture says that men must only want sexual and romantic relationships with women.

My trans sister is shunned and mistreated because she was born with certain body parts that society and culture assign as male.

Queer men and women who do not perfectly conform to the traditional notions of "masculine" or "feminine" in dress, act, appearance, or identity are routinely shunned and mistreated as a result.

All of this boils down to attempts to enforce gender roles and gender norms onto society. The abuse and discrimination a trans person faces may appear different on the surface, but everything underneath is the same.

I will never throw my trans brothers and sisters under the bus. If the gay community as a whole attempted to do this, I would abandon it. They would be traitors to everything we are fighting against.

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Mon Feb 29, 2016, 09:32 PM

12. From the point of view of our enemies, there is no difference.

 

In a world without bigots, gay men, lesbians, and assorted other sexual minorities could all just go separate ways pursuing their own interests.

We do not live in such a world and will not get there by infighting.

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:05 PM

13. The "T" MUST stay, it is the bigoted log cabin conservatives that need to be removed. nt

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 04:11 PM

14. Seconded!

 

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #13)

Tue Mar 1, 2016, 05:10 PM

15. Agreed.

Being "inclusive" is not the problem, it is "excluding" which is the problem.

In the Oppression Olympics, the only winner are the oppressors!

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Response to Amimnoch (Original post)

Wed Mar 9, 2016, 05:10 PM

16. they've accepted losing the gay rights issue.

all they have left is being anti-trans.

as long as we stick together, they'll lose this fight as well.

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