Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumDon't let Netanyahu's win fool you: Israel shifted to the left
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... In the last elections, the combined strength of the right-wing parties Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu, Habayit Hayehudi, Shas and United Torah Judaism was 61 seats. In these elections, these same parties together dropped to 57 seats. In the last election, the center Yesh Atid and Kadima tallied 21 seats, the same number as the center received in this election (this time split between Yesh Atid and Kulanu). In the last election, the left received 38 seats, and in this election rose to 42 (if one counts Hatnuah as left, given that this year it sat in the center-left Zionist Union). Admittedly, drawing clear distinctions between left, right and center has grown ever more complicated in recent years, and complexity is elided in this back-of-the-envelope analysis. Still, these elections, though they are being described as a landslide victory for Netanyahu, actually saw a shift to the left.
And that is not all. These elections also saw the emergence of Herzog as the undisputed leader of the left, which has wanted for leadership ever since Ehud Barak's disastrous tenure ended 14 years ago. Herzog continued a process of rebuilding begun by his predecessor, Shelly Yacimovich. These elections also saw the emergence of the Joint List, under the remarkable leadership of Ayman Odeh, and a Palestinian-Israeli electorate that seeks, more than ever in the past, to join Israeli political discourse in a meaningful way. These elections also repudiated the xenophobic hate-mongering of Eli Yishai's Yahad party. To conclude from Wednesday's elections that the nation must be replaced and that Israeli politics is broken beyond repair, is to misunderstand them.
All this matters, because concluding from the elections that the electorate is hopeless dismisses and disparages precisely the people we need to persuade to bring the change we seek. Many have accused Netanyahu of schnoring votes by manipulating the fears that Israelis feel: fear of Iran's ayatollah's, fear of the Islamic State group, fear of bloody chaos in Syria, fear of Hamas in Gaza, fear of a Europe in which we are told it is no longer safe to travel in T-shirts with Hebrew lettering, fear that the leadership of the Palestinian Authority is playing us. He did, disgustingly, and it is right to blame him for that. But it is wrong to blame Israelis for fearing these things. Instead of dreaming of replacing the nation, what we on the left need to do now is listen, understand, and create a new leftist politics that addresses the real and justified concerns of Israelis, for security, for decent schools and hospitals, for a living wage and all the rest.
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http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.647797#
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Netanyahu's last minute uber-right tactics won. There is a reason for that--a receptive populace.
This piece is a propaganda effort to paper over the continued rise of the right in Israel. It's just like Netanyahu claiming after the election he is really for a two state solution. Fortunately, outside of Israel, people aren't buying this crap any more.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Have you ever been to Israel?
It is one of the most left-wing countries in the world.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)if the former, then yes, "the left" gained, since 'the left" consists of every party more moderate than Likud.
If the latter, then Meretz and Hadash. In this election, technically just Meretz, since Hadash got folded into the JAL. And Meretz actually lost a seat.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)But let's take Netanbigot's quote and change some of the characters to see how racist this really is.
Black voters are coming out in droves to the polls
Left wing organizations are busing them out.
Get out to vote, bring your friends and family, vote Republican in order to close the gap between us and the Democrats.
With your help and the help of God,
We will build a nationalist government that will protect the United States of America.
Let's face reality-based reality, and not hasbara 101.
Israel is a bigoted, apartheid state, and a majority of its citizens just voted for right wingers.
Come back to reality, ober.
android fan
(214 posts)Palestinians are not Israelis.
They can work for Israelis if they chose to do, but they aren't Israelis by any means.
And yes, they can apply to become one.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Israel is the rogue state that continues the apartheid blight, and I only report on it.
Israeli
(4,161 posts)we were once oberliner........not any more .
Mosby
(16,395 posts)The right lost votes compared to the last election, and the left gained votes.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)And the right moved farther to the right.
Mosby
(16,395 posts)Bibi still has to put together a coalition and he can only do that with non-right parties.
Israeli
(4,161 posts)...." the right has moved farther to the right. "
" Bibi still has to put together a coalition and he can only do that with non-right parties. "
Its a done deal .
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4640975,00.html
Netanyahu will have up to six weeks to put together his new coalition.
Two far-right parties - Bayit Yehudi, which won eight seats, and Yisrael Beytenu, with six - have already pledged their support for Netanyahu in consultations with Rivlin.
In addition, centrist Kulanu, with 10 seats, ultra-Orthodox Shas, with seven, and United Torah Judaism, with six, have also backed Netanyahu, whose Likud has 30 legislators of its own.
Although the horse trading for cabinet positions has yet to start, Likud announced that Netanyahu will name Kulanu's leader, Moshe Kahlon, as the next finance minister, replacing the centrist Yair Lapid, who has refused to join the new government.
android fan
(214 posts)Likudniks has a very very thin line, and Bibi has to submit the coalition for approval which each MK has to affirm its vote, and it's likely he won't have enough.
FBaggins
(26,778 posts)His hand has actually been improved. It's almost impossible that he won't get a coalition at this point.
He already has 67 seats that recommend him as the next PM.
The numbers sure do Mosby....
Likud got the most votes of any party in Israeli history, 985K, beating Likud 2003, which got 925K.
The OP you posted did you read all of it ?
The morning's gloom reflected not just the disappointing realization that we must go on living with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's noxious and unsteady leadership, but a deeper dismay that there is no longer a place in Israel for the ideals and values that matter most to us. Waking up to the news that Netanyahu controlled six more seats in the Knesset than Isaac Herzog, many on the left took the election results to mean that something is truly broken, possibly beyond repair, and that "the nation must be replaced," as Haaretz's Gideon Levy put it.
Noah Efron's attempt to booster moral amongst the Left ....
What needs to be replaced is the entitlement that allows some leftists to complain that the country has been taken away from us. What needs to be replaced is our a-pox-on-thee despair. What needs to be replaced is the impatience that leads us on the left to see every election loss as final proof that our democracy is a sham, our past is a lie and our future is lost.
....is falling on deaf ears .
Netanyahu won ...Israel is about to shift more right than it was before these elections .
The Left did not gain votes Mosby......the true Left lost .
Its The End of the Liberal Zionist Façade ...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/03/20/the-end-of-the-liberal-zionist-facade/
It is now extremely likely that a spate of anti-democratic laws that had been shelved will soon resurface. These include laws that monitor and limit the financing of human rights NGOs, restrict freedom of the expression, reduce the authority of the Supreme Court, cancel the official status of Arabic, and, of course, bring to a vote the nation-state law. This bill, which was originally drafted by a Likud member, defines Jewishness as the states default in any instance, legal or legislative, in which the states Jewishness and its democratic aspirations clash. This means that Laws that provide equal rights to all citizens can be struck down on the pretense that they violate the states Jewish character. Moreover, this law reserves communal rights for Jews alone, thus denying Palestinian citizens any kind of national identity.
There is, however, one clear advantage to the election results: clarity. At least now there will be no liberal Zionist façade, camouflaging Israels unwillingness to dismantle its colonial project. The Israeli refrain that a diplomatic solution with the Palestinians cannot be achieved because the Palestinians lack leadership will ring even more hollow. Finally, the claim that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East will exposed for what it is: a half truth. While Israel is a democracy for Jews it is a repressive regime for Palestinians.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)respect international law on the topic of the OPT?
Herzog and Livni were not going to go that route, so what is liberal minded there?
android fan
(214 posts)for starters?
First and foremost on Israel's agenda is peace. They can co-exist with Palestine. They just have to find the path to peace.
Oh, and how about free and fair elections for the Palestinian Authority? Abbas is overextending his stay in the PA leadership role...
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)my question, btw. An agreement that does not result in a viable state for them will not bring
peace.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that are on the record opposing negotiations for a Palestinian state.
Including the supposedly moderate Kulanu and its head Kahlon, who have ruled out negotiations with Abbas (as if someone better will come along) and instead view the current situation as already having achieved a "two-state situation."
So, the plain fact is that Israel voted against negotiations for a Palestinian state.
67 votes for the apartheid right is still 67 votes for the apartheid right.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Neither UTJ nor Shas are on the record opposing such negotiations. And Yisrael Beiteinu is explicitly on the record supporting the creation of a Palestinian state.
Every single poll of Israelis show that the majority supports a two-state solution.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)it has no meaning, except in the negative.
Avigdor Lieberman favors it so long as it means he gets to ethnically cleanse Israel of Arabs, for example.
Yes, Israelis support the two-state solution, so long as it doesn't mean negotiating with the Palestinians with the goal being a sovereign Palestinian state with control over its own borders, airspace, immigration, power to make treaties, and ground water.
And, of course, they don't want to deal with it now.
It's something Israelis say they favor in order to avoid getting in trouble with the US and Europe.
As was perfectly illustrated by Putinyahu last week.
Bibi's economic record is a disaster. So why did they keep him?
Because they want him handling the Palestinians and the Iranians and the US.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Shas also supports a Palestinian State as long as Jews who left Arabs countries are compensated for the property they left behind
and United Torah Judaism has no opinion either way
Shas demands and endorses a compensation package for those Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews that were forced to leave their host countries and their property behind, making it a condition for its being willing to accept any peace deal with the PLO and bilateral peace agreements with Arab Countries.[citation needed]
Shas opposes any form of public expression of homosexuality, including Gay Pride parades, especially in Jerusalem. Shas MK Nissim Ze'ev accused the homosexual community of "carrying out the self-destruction of Israeli society and the Jewish people", calling homosexuals "a plague as toxic as bird flu".[13] However, it officially condemns any form of violence against gays and lesbians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shas
United Torah Judaism (Yahadut Hatorah - UTJ) is a coalition of two ultra-Orthodox parties, Agudat Israel and Degel HaTorah, which submitted a joint list in the 1992 election, in which it won four Knesset seats. In the 1999 elections, UTJ won five Knesset seats. UTJ wants to maintain a status quo relationship in regard to religion and state issues. UTJ has no opinion on the issue of increasing settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Torah_Judaism
It takes a strong line towards the peace process and the integration of Israeli Arabs, characterized by its 2009 election slogan "No loyalty, no citizenship".[16] Its main platform includes a recognition of the two-state solution, the creation of a Palestinian state that would include an exchange of some largely Arab-inhabited parts of Israel for largely Jewish-inhabited parts of the West Bank.[17] The party maintains an anti-clerical mantle and encourages socio-economic opportunities for new immigrants, in conjunction with efforts to increase Jewish immigration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yisrael_Beiteinu
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)started negotiating for a Palestinian state indicate that his support for a Palestinian state is less than sincere. He also wants to re-occupy Gaza.
Shas has a long history of really, really nasty bigotry towards Arabs. Worse than Lieberman even.
samsingh
(17,602 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Their version of George Dubya and teabaggers won.
aranthus
(3,385 posts)They're just hateful and looking for a hook on which to hang Israel. How many of these people excused the election of Hamas?
LeftishBrit
(41,212 posts)but until the voting system is reformed, it won't translate itself into anything practical in terms of government.
The UK is IMO going down the drain because of a lack of proportional representation, and Israel because of an excess of it.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/mwh/germany/weimarstrengthweakrev_print.shtml
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Or pre-Nazi Germany.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Response to Mosby (Original post)
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