200 former senior security officials present plan to end impasse

[Israeli]

IDF generals and Mossad, Shin Bet, and police equivalents call for freeze on settlement building, acceptance of the Arab Peace Initiative, and recognition that East Jerusalem should be a part of a future Palestinian state; the former security officials also urge the completion of the security fence.

Associated Press
Published: 05.28.16, 09:26 / Israel News

A group of more than 200 military and intelligence officials criticized the government for a lack of action in resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on Friday and issued a detailed plan they say can end the impasse.
The report's publication closely follows the appointment of Yisrael Beytenu Chairman Avigdor Lieberman as defense minister.

With peace talks in a deep freeze the plan by Commanders for Israel's Security on Friday called to "preserve conditions" for negotiations with the Palestinians. It urges a combination of political and security initiatives together with delivering economic benefits to Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem simultaneously.

It calls for a freeze on settlement building, the acceptance in principle of the Arab Peace Initiative and the recognition that East Jerusalem should be part of a future Palestinian state "when established as part of a future agreement."

The group's chairman, Amnon Reshef, a former IDF general, said the plan "refutes the fear mongers" who claim there is currently no Palestinian peace partner or that conditions are not right for negotiations. He said such an argument, which is common in Israel after years of conflict and failed talks, "should not serve as an excuse for passivity and inaction."
Reshef warned "the current status quo is an illusion" that endangers a two-state solution to the conflict.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4808802,00.html

Yes !!!
Lesson to Bibi ........never a good idea to piss off the Army top brass , they can bite back

[Bad Dog]

1. Good luck to them.

It's about time for some pragmatism. Will it affect Netanyahu though? He seems to be moving further right with each passing day, and the settlers are key to his remaining in power.

[Israeli]

2. For sure it will affect him .....

....not much he can do about it tho ....'Breaking the Silence' group he can try to demolish , he wont succeed with that either , but this group will just laugh straight into his face .

BTW ...its not just the settlers , its the religious right wing in general .

[Bad Dog]

3. Is it likely to affect the outcome of the next general election?

He seems to have weathered the storm of a less than enthusiastic Obama, and inviting Austria's far right leader over for a cosy chat doesn't seem to have damaged him.

[Israeli]

4. That is impossible to say ....

....next elections are a long way away and now with Lieberman he has strengthened his fragile coalition . .... but ....anything can happen between then and now .

Ever since the soldier shot dead the Palestinian in Hebron Bibi has made one wrong move after another ....turning against IDF Deputy Chief of Staff Maj. Gen.Yair Golan was his biggest yet .
Golan has a huge following over here .

Best bet is to have patience and just sit back and watch ......

[Bad Dog]

5. I hope it was a mistake.

And I accept you know more about the situation than I, but Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland sees it as Netanyahu riding a tide of popular opinion.

The first clash came when an Israeli army medic shot dead a Palestinian – who had attacked a group of soldiers with a knife – as he lay injured on the ground, posing no threat. Ya’alon led the military brass in denouncing the medic for his lethal indiscipline, for acting out of revenge. Bibi did too – at first. But then he saw that Israeli public opinion was rallying behind the soldier, so he switched sides, even telephoning the killer’s father to demonstrate his sympathy. Ya’alon was appalled. Ya’alon is no peacenik. But he holds to a military ethos that believes might has to be constrained by the rule of law.

Then, a fortnight ago, the deputy chief of staff of the Israeli military, Yair Golan, spoke at a Holocaust Remembrance Day event and lamented what he felt were alarming resonances between the “intolerance” and “fear-mongering” visible in contemporary Israel, and the Germany of the 1930s. Golan was widely condemned, including by Netanyahu. Doubtless Ya’alon disagreed with Golan’s sentiments vehemently. But he defended the general’s right to speak out, believing that this too is an essential part of the duty of a soldier in a democracy: to voice the misgivings of his conscience.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/20/israel-turned-right-netanyahu-brutal-reshuffle-obama-last-push

[Israeli]

6. It was a huge mistake ....

"sees it as Netanyahu riding a tide of popular opinion."

A tide of right wing popular opinion Bad Dog.......come on , seriously , when Bush was in power were all Americans in agreement with him ???

One day the tables will turn for us too .....we need our own Obama , we had one once ....Bibi was part and parcel of Rabin's assassination , those of us on the Left have long memories ...he is not loved by all or even by most ....and he knows it .

[Bad Dog]

8. I don't know about Bush's popularity in America.

I'm not American, but I do know he won a second term following an illegal war. It seems that Israel has moved further to the right since Rabin's assassination. I appreciate that left wingers do have long memories, but since the assassination you've had your population changed with the influx of a bunch of right wing Russians.

One would have thought alienating Obama would have been a vote loser, but Netanyahu seems to have done quite well out of it.

[Israeli]

10. Sorry .........

I just took it for granted you were American .....where are you from ?

For sure we have moved further to the right since Rabin's assassination.....thats not to say we cant move the other way again ......probably more Centrist than Leftist but anything would be better than this bunch of racist fascists that we have now .

Not all Russians are right wing .......not all Russians are like Lieberman .

The biggest population/political changer was the influx of right wing religious Americans after the six day war .........and they keep on coming .

" One would have thought alienating Obama would have been a vote loser, but Netanyahu seems to have done quite well out of it. "

Of course he did ....our religious right wing hate Obama , Bibi panders to them constantly .
If he didnt he wouldnt last long .....thus the change of heart with the soldier in the Hebron shooting .

[Bad Dog]

16. As a rule of thumb about nine out of ten people one talks to on the internet are American.

It's an easy mistake to make, and one I've made myself. I'm English. Like you we could do with a swing to the left, although if Cameron can fuck a dead pig and get away with it, it's hard to see what could get him kicked out.

[Israeli]

22. Ah English ....

.......not really up on your politics but I wish you all the best with your wish for a swing to the left.

Cameron did what ???? !!!!!

[Bad Dog]

25. He denies it, but lots of people believe he did it.

Including me, those posh types get up to all sorts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piggate

The town of Lewes commemorated the event on bonfire night.

[Israeli]

23. I love it when you try to teach me Mosby........

......

" They and the Mizrahi parties (shas, likud) form the right wing core. "

Any reason you missed out....

Naftali Bennett's The Jewish Home party or Yaakov Litzman's United Torah Judaism ???

You know what I take from your post .... a) that you are Ashkenazi and b) you dont like it that " " Russian "Jews" are not really Jewish. " .....so what Mosby ???

They live here , pay their taxes serve in the Army .....like everyone else ....only the religious and traditionalists give a damn whether they are Jewish or not .

Also you are wrong ....the second generation of Russian voters have moved away from their parents politics ....many young Russians have moved to the Center and some even to the left .

[Israeli]

29. You know you should really read what I posted again Mosby ....

....because I never said " that the second generation of russians are moving to the left ".

I said ...." many young Russians have moved to the Center and some even to the left ."

You got involved responding to my post #10 , which was :

" Not all Russians are right wing .......not all Russians are like Lieberman . "

You have a problem with that ???

" Are you aware that there are extreme RW skinheads in Israel now? Guess where they came from? I'll give you a hint, it's not New York. "

I'm aware Mosby .....you sure you dont want to insinuate again that I am not Israeli ???

Actually the second generation are integrating very well into Israeli society......the same with the Ethiopians ....takes time Mosby .

[oberliner]

27. Why are you so snarky on here?

I don't understand it.

[Israeli]

31. Neither does KD oberliner.......

Seriously .......you want to know why ?

Because since the day I joined this group you , KD and Mosby have insinuated that I am not Israeli ......or if I am Israeli then I am not Jewish .....which makes me either Arab or Russian.
I'm neither oberliner.........I'm second generation Sabra with fourth generation grandchildren .

When you guys stop being "snarky" with me .....I might just stop being "snarky" right back at you .....what goes around comes around oberliner.

[King_David]

17. Good posts

Almost all of them in this thread.
Is someone using your account?

[Israeli]

32. I'm perfectly aware that you cannot respond to me in this thread KD ....

....but ...

......your need for attention seeking is seriously breaking all bounds .

[Scootaloo]

7. Well, that's gotta sting some tail feathers of the chickenhawks around these parts

[oberliner]

28. How so?

This all seems totally reasonable.

[6chars]

9. clutching my pearls in shock

no, this is pretty much what a lot of pro-Israel people think. I part ways with those who think that if Israel does not do all these things, i.e., if it adds apartments somewhere, it is fine for terrorists to kill Jews, Hamas to fire rockets at Jews, the UN to pass resolutions saying Israel commits genocide, that kind of thing.

[aranthus]

13. It's the standard liberal position

as opposed to the stand of Leftists who want to impose right of return and thereby make Israel disappear. I wonder what the report says about dealing with right of return as the Saudi Plan is vague.

[Little Tich]

11. Perhaps a two-state solution is possible after all...

This is definitely a positive development.

[Israeli]

12. Not with Bibi in charge ....

.....not a hope in hell Little Tich.

BTW ....did you notice the sting in the tail ???

It calls for a freeze on settlement building, the acceptance in principle of the Arab Peace Initiative and the recognition that East Jerusalem should be part of a future Palestinian state "when established as part of a future agreement."

[Little Tich]

15. I know that Netanyahu is a master obstructionist, but does he have the power to resist 200 senior

security officials?

Yeah, I saw that part about East Jerusalem - it should indicate that the plan is serious, and that the Arab league finally has a potential counterpart to negotiate peace with. I just don't know what it would take for the plan to go from a non-sanctioned initiative to an actual peace proposal.

[aranthus]

14. The head of this group is a serious military hero.

His name is Amnon Reshef. He commanded the 14th Armored Brigade in the Sinai during the 1973 war.

[azurnoir]

18. Interesting as it calls for some the very same things that we are told "Leftists"

wish to destroy Israel with

[aranthus]

19. Not true

Maybe it calls for some things that Leftists demand, but not things that most DUers would say will destroy Israel. And it doesn't call for right of return, which the one thing that Leftists want that will destroy the Jewish state. But you knew all that already.

[King_David]

21. You are definitely not of the same mindset of these....

Pelease.

[Israeli]

24. No kidding ........

Establishing Jerusalem as the capital of the two states, with East Jerusalem (including the Haram al-Sharif) serving as the capital of Palestine and West Jerusalem (including the Western Wall) serving as the capital of Israel. The city is to be united on the physical and municipal level, based on mutual agreement.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/about/aims/

[geek tragedy]

33. Too bad there's no way the Israeli public would ever buy into this.

But I applaud them for trying.

[Israeli]

34. That's a sweeping statement geek tragedy......

................what do you base it on ?

Now if you had said .." there's no way that that this Israeli government would ever buy into this "........I would agree with you .

Your tarring us all with the same brush .

Which Israeli public ?

We dont count ???????...........

In Tel Aviv, thousands protest Israel’s ‘fascist’ incoming defense minister

2,000 demonstrate against appointment of Liberman; Joint List chairman says only a joint Jewish-Arab effort will topple Netanyahu government

BY TAMAR PILEGGI May 28, 2016

An estimated 2,000 people poured into central Tel Aviv on Saturday night to protest Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s pick of Yisrael Beytenu head Avigdor Liberman as Israel’s new defense minister in last week’s coalition shakeup.

Carrying Palestinian and Israeli flags, protesters marched towards the Tel Aviv Likud party headquarters on King George street chanting: “Liberman [is a] racist and a fascist,” and “Liberman is the minister of war.”

Protesters waved banners denouncing extremism, racism, and violence in Israel, as well as signs proclaiming “Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies” and “Israel, Palestine, two states for two peoples.”

The rally, organized by the Joint (Arab) List, the left-wing Meretz party, and the left-wing Peace Now organization, was held under the headline “Building the opposition: A new way for Israel.”

Citing police estimates, Hebrew media reports put the number of demonstrators at around 2,000.

The marchers were joined by leftist members of the Knesset, including Meretz leader Zehava Galon and Joint List chairman Ayman Odeh.

“It’s exciting to see thousands of Jews and Arabs coming together to tell the Netanyahu government that Liberman, its defense minister, is illegitimate,” Galon told the Maariv news website during the march.

“The most racist and corrupt man received the portfolio from Netanyahu for his own political survival. Now we’re telling him: ‘Enough, get the hell out,'” she said.

“We believe that only a joint Jewish-Arab effort can beat this,” Odeh said. “We reject the assumption that all Jews hate Arabs and all Arabs hate Jews. This struggle against racism must be shared one.”

Pointing to nationalist trends, Odeh said his Joint List “is setting up the democratic camp.”

“Liberman wants to damage civil society, the Supreme Court, the [left-wing organization] Breaking the Silence, and specifically the Arab sector.

“We are together in this, Jews and Arabs, and we will overcome him,” Odeh said. “We will present a real alternative that will be able to topple this right-wing government.”

Source : http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-tel-aviv-thousands-protest-israels-fascist-new-defense-minister/

[geek tragedy]

35. When the Israeli public votes Netanyahu out of office, then I will believe that they're

up to this.

There are a great many progressive, principled people in Israel--such as yourself.

Just not enough.