Israeli Opposition Leader: Iran Deal Will Bring Chaos to the Middle East

[geek tragedy]

Behold the 'sane' voice of the 'left' in Israel. Pretty much a carbon copy of Netanyahu.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/israel-isaac-herzog-iran-nuclear-deal/398705/

In a telephone call with me late last night, Herzog’s message was very different. The deal just finalized in Vienna, he said, “will unleash a lion from the cage, it will have a direct influence over the balance of power in our region, it’s going to affect our borders, and it will affect the safety of my children.”

Iran, he said, is an “empire of evil and hate that spreads terror across the region,” adding that, under the terms of the deal, Iran “will become a nuclear-threshold state in a decade or so.” Iran will take its post-sanctions windfall, he said, and use the funds to supply more rockets to Hezbollah in Lebanon, more ammunition to Hamas in Gaza, and “generally increase the worst type of activities that they’ve been doing.”

Herzog, who lost a race for the prime ministership in March to the Likud’s Benjamin Netanyahu, had mainly kind words for his archrival, and he even invoked an expression popularized by Netanyahu’s ideological guide, the founding father of right-wing Zionist revisionism, Ze’ev Jabotinsky, to describe what he sees as Israel’s next, necessary step: “We have to build an iron wall to protect Israel. There are clear risks to Israel’s security in this deal.”

Long story short, he's on his way into a coalition government with Netanyahu, and will be trying to torpedo the deal in Congress (while claiming not to) thus trying to start a war.

[geek tragedy]

1. more

When I asked Herzog if he would be lobbying Congress to disapprove the deal (AIPAC, I’m told, has invited him to do so), he said he wouldn’t. “I think it’s a bad deal, but I’m not going to lobby, I’m not going to tell senators what to vote. I think what I need to do is explain the weak points and have them understand our concerns. I’m taking the practical approach.”

Isn’t that a description of lobbying? “I don’t intend to hide my feelings. Most of the Israeli body politic is worried about the agreement, and people need to understand our worries. The world doesn’t fully understand the fact that we are left here alone in this neighborhood, that there is a Shia empire that is trying to inflame the region with a heavy hand. But I don’t intend to clash with the administration. We’re very glad for all that the Obama administration has done for us. We have respect for the United States, for this great ally and friend, and we don’t want to be in a confrontation or clash. But we have to let people know that we think this is a dangerous situation.”

[still_one]

2. Very sad state of affairs. Their argument is that the deal should include "everything". Really?

Preventing Iran from producing and aquiring nuclear weapons isn't enough for these pea brains?

The U.S has been following that doctrine since the bush years, and that ended up with an invasion of Iraq, destabilization of the middle east, over a million lives lost, and trillions of dollars gone down the drain, and they suggest having Iran remove nuclear ambitions would lead to chaos.

Is the world really that stupid?

I think not.

Israel is doing more harm to itself than any of its enemies, as they continue to go against this deal, and turn a blind eye to what the international community regards as the illegal proliferation of settlements

Israel doesn't need enemies, they have Netanyahu and obviously Herzog.

[geek tragedy]

3. The Israelis see the sanctions as an end, not a means to an end.

Their beef comes down to the fact that they don't want those sanctions lifted, ever, unless there's regime change in Tehran.

[still_one]

6. That may be their view, but it isn't the U.S. View. The era of regime change is over

that policy was a complete failure with Cuba, China, Iraq, and even Iran when we installed the shah

Also Viet nam etc

[geek tragedy]

7. the era of regime change is paused, but the Republicans and AIPAC want to bring it back nt

[Igel]

11. Syria?

Then in the not-recent past, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya. We're pushing for it in Zambia, because the regime in power piddled improperly in getting itself a 3rd term.

And then there was South Africa. And the lack of concern over Zimbabwe.

Let's not talk about South Sudan. Or Darfur.

Now, it's not over. It's just we don't notice it when it's an embarrassment to us and instead just see those that embarrass others.

[still_one]

13. I know, too many examples

[Fred Sanders]

4. The unspoken secret fact Israel has 200 uninspected nuclear weapons and multiple delivery capacity for same, is

the only thing folks need to know to spot the lies and take note of the posturing.

[Scootaloo]

5. Left unsaid, "because we seek to foment it"

The United States needs an alliance with Israel the way it needs a fad for melanomas.

[BillZBubb]

8. As opposed to the peaceful calm and order that exists now?

It couldn't get more chaotic there and Israel is one of the producers of chaos.

[Israeli]

9. Herzog is not Left geek tragedy....

....he is a Centralist .

He is nothing like Netanyahu.

He is NOT " on his way into a coalition government with Netanyahu " .

Hook line and sinker .......its all about internal politics and power sharing between him and Yair Lapid.....and who will get the most votes once Bibi has gone .

Ever since the current government was formed, Herzog and Lapid have been fighting for recognition as influential players who can contend with Netanyahu in the diplomatic and security spheres. Now they have finally been given a chance to lash out at the prime minister in the area that he practically dominates. Because they are locked in an open struggle over who is the senior opposition leader — who ultimately sets the tone — they have been particularly aggressive in their campaign against Netanyahu.

Hence, within a day, the leaders of the Zionist Camp and Yesh Atid changed their approach. They both dropped their internecine spats and appeared before the international media to explain why Israel opposes the agreement. Whether intentionally or not, Herzog and Lapid were both practically quoting the Netanyahu government’s talking points.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/07/israel-netanyahu-nuke-deal-unity-government-petty-politics.html

You read the URL ...." petty politics " ??

He is not trying "to start a war" ....he is trying to prove that he is an alternative to Bibi and to Yair Lapid.....not the best way to go about it if you ask me ...but what do I know .

[oberliner]

10. Zionist Union said in talks to join Netanyahu coalition

President Reuven Rivlin has been mediating between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Zionist Union leader Isaac Herzog in a bid to form a unity government, the Likud and Zionist Union parties were quoted by Haaretz as saying on Thursday.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/zionist-union-said-in-talks-to-join-netanyahu-coalition/

[Israeli]

15. You think this is news for me oberliner......

....come on .

Herzog is denying publicly that he intends to join a unity gov ...he might be testing the waters tho .

If he does he is finished ...he might have taken Tzipi onboard and changed the party's name ....but his voting base remains Avoda ....and they will not forgive him .
He will be out in the cold just like Ehud Barak was .....remember that he was elected on a promise to bring down Bibi ....not join him .

[Israeli]

24. Here you go oberliner...its official now ...

Never pay attention to rumors in Israeli politics ....its almost as bad as paying attention to political polls ......

Opposition leader Herzog says 'no' to unity government with Netanyahu

Denies rumors of upcoming deal; hints that Zionist Union will back PM against 'bad' Iranian nuclear pact.

By Jonathan Lis

Opposition leader Isaac Herzog said last night that his Zionist Union faction will not join Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government, but indicated he would support the premier’s opposition to the Iran nuclear deal from the outside.

“This government needs to be replaced,” he said. “Benjamin Netanyahu needs to be replaced. He needs to be sent home.”

Herzog made the statement at the Labor Party convention. (Zionist Union is a joint ticket comprised of Labor and Tzipi Livni’s Hatnuah party.)

Senior officials from both Labor and Likud have confirmed that over the past few months, the parties have discussed the possibility of Zionist Union joining the government. But in his speech to the convention, Herzog was unequivocal: “I say no to crawling into Netanyahu’s extreme right-wing government.”

Nevertheless, he added, the opposition might well support the government from outside on certain issues, primarily those relating to national security, even if this “doesn’t serve our political interests for the moment.”

Herzog also used his address to appeal to Yair Lapid, chairman of the Yesh Atid party, which is also in opposition.

“I won’t be your bro, but we’ve been sentenced to cooperate in the campaign to replace the government,” he said. “I’m offering you fair and honest cooperation toward the day when we run the state. If we have the sense to conduct ourselves this way, it will be better for our entire camp.”

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel/.premium-1.666803

[geek tragedy]

14. he doesn't seem like he cares to make himself an alternative to Bibi.

It seems he and Lapid are auditioning for the right to be added as foreign minister by kissing Bibi's ass and doing his dirty work for him.

Herzog is trying to prevent a diplomatic solution to the issue. Take diplomacy off the table, and only one thing remains.

Herzog is more polite about things, but that's about the extent of the differences between him and the current PM.

[Israeli]

16. Never the less geek tragedy.....

...what I said still stands ......

A) He is NOT a Leftist .....he is a Centralist .

B) He is nothing like Netanyahu.

C) He is not trying "to start a war" .

Never the less ....politics are a dirty business.....

An opposition in Netanyahu's service

Instead if representing those who elected him, Herzog is using their votes to pave the way for the continuation of Netanyahu's rule.

Haaretz Editorial | Jul. 17, 2015

This week’s deal on Iran’s nuclear program is turning into the perfect excuse for both Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and opposition leader Isaac Herzog to realize their political goals.

The talks the two have been holding about forming a unity government began even before the agreement was signed (Jonathan Lis, Haaretz, July 15). But the nuclear deal, which Netanyahu and his envoys are marketing in Israel as the modern-day equivalent of the Munich accord, is also liable to serve as an excuse for overlooking all the evils of Netanyahu’s terms in office – the deepening of the occupation, the rejection of peace and the destruction of democracy at home.

The opposition’s response to the agreement, which ignores the opportunities it presents, empties the very concept of a democratic opposition of all meaning. “The agreement that was signed is a bad agreement that endangers our security interests,” declared the “leader of the opposition,” following closely in Netanyahu’s footsteps. He even volunteered to go to Washington to assist in obtaining security compensation for Israel, as if he were a high-ranking representative of the government.

And Herzog was outdone by Yesh Atid chairman Yair Lapid, who attacked the agreement viciously and even compared Netanyahu to Golda Meir after the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Lapid, who is not a desired partner for this government and won’t enjoy its perks, is continuing to lurch right in an effort to rectify his poor showing in the last election. After having launched an unbridled attack on the Breaking the Silence organization, Lapid has now adopted Netanyahu’s tactics of intimidation and exaggeration regarding the agreement with Iran.

Lapid can be dismissed as just another cynical politician trying to attract attention. But Herzog, who was elected to pose an alternative to Netanyahu’s rule, is now looking like someone who misled his voters. His faction has failed again and again to stand up against the government’s destructive moves. Actions such as its members’ flight from a vote to remove restrictions on Israeli Arab marriages with foreign spouses raise the question of how exactly this opposition differs from the extreme-right government. Herzog’s vehement denials of any intention to join Netanyahu’s government sound unconvincing when the gap between their positions has been erased.

The election proved that a large portion of the public opposes Netanyahu’s path. Herzog must represent those who elected him rather than use their votes to pave the way for the continuation of the prime minister’s harmful rule.

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.666514

[geek tragedy]

17. I agree he is no leftist, but he is perceived that way by people

holding out hope that Israel is close to becoming more progressive.

He is taking action that leads to war. Whether that is specific intent or a consequence he is willing to live with . . .

Herzog forgot that being the opposition means opposing.

[Jefferson23]

12. Noam Chomsky: Opposing Iran Nuclear Deal, Israel’s Goal Isn’t Survival — It’s Regional Dominance

snip* NOAM CHOMSKY: For both president—Prime Minister Netanyahu and the hawks in Congress, mostly Republican, the primary goal is to undermine any potential negotiation that might settle whatever issue there is with Iran. They have a common interest in ensuring that there is no regional force that can serve as any kind of deterrent to Israeli and U.S. violence, the major violence in the region. And it is—if we believe U.S. intelligence—don’t see any reason not to—their analysis is that if Iran is developing nuclear weapons, which they don’t know, it would be part of their deterrent strategy. Now, their general strategic posture is one of deterrence. They have low military expenditures. According to U.S. intelligence, their strategic doctrine is to try to prevent an attack, up to the point where diplomacy can set in. I don’t think anyone with a grey cell functioning thinks that they would ever conceivably use a nuclear weapon, or even try to. The country would be obliterated in 15 seconds. But they might provide a deterrent of sorts. And the U.S. and Israel certainly don’t want to tolerate that. They are the forces that carry out regular violence and aggression in the region and don’t want any impediment to that.

And for the Republicans in Congress, there’s another interest—namely, to undermine anything that Obama, you know, the entity Christ, might try to do. So that’s a separate issue there. The Republicans stopped being an ordinary parliamentary party some years ago. They were described, I think accurately, by Norman Ornstein, the very respected conservative political analyst, American Enterprise Institute; he said the party has become a radical insurgency which has abandoned any commitment to parliamentary democracy. And their goal for the last years has simply been to undermine anything that Obama might do, in an effort to regain power and serve their primary constituency, which is the very wealthy and the corporate sector. They try to conceal this with all sorts of other means. In doing so, they’ve had to—you can’t get votes that way, so they’ve had to mobilize sectors of the population which have always been there but were never mobilized into an organized political force: evangelical Christians, extreme nationalists, terrified people who have to carry guns into Starbucks because somebody might be after them, and so on and so forth. That’s a big force. And inspiring fear is not very difficult in the United States. It’s a long history, back to colonial times, of—as an extremely frightened society, which is an interesting story in itself. And mobilizing people in fear of them, whoever "them" happens to be, is an effective technique used over and over again. And right now, the Republicans have—their nonpolicy has succeeded in putting them back in a position of at least congressional power. So, the attack on—this is a personal attack on Obama, and intended that way, is simply part of that general effort. But there is a common strategic concern underlying it, I think, and that is pretty much what U.S. intelligence analyzes: preventing any deterrent in the region to U.S. and Israeli actions.

AARON MATÉ: You say that nobody with a grey cell thinks that Iran would launch a strike, were it to have nuclear weapons, but yet Netanyahu repeatedly accuses Iran of planning a new genocide against the Jewish people. He said this most recently on Holocaust Remembrance Day in January, saying that the ayatollahs are planning a new holocaust against us. And that’s an argument that’s taken seriously here.

NOAM CHOMSKY: It’s taken seriously by people who don’t stop to think for a minute. But again, Iran is under extremely close surveillance. U.S. satellite surveillance knows everything that’s going on in Iran. If Iran even began to load a missile—that is, to bring a missile near a weapon—the country would probably be wiped out. And whatever you think about the clerics, the Guardian Council and so on, there’s no indication that they’re suicidal.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/2/noam_chomsky_opposing_iran_nuclear_deal

The irony is that Iran is not the one that is a threat to peace in the region.

[bemildred]

18. As opposed to the present peace and tranquility?

[geek tragedy]

19. Israelis like the status quo just fine.

It's not perfect, but better than any possible alternatives as they see it.

[bemildred]

20. A rather distopian view of the best possible situation, I would say.

I am confident the situation could be much better, because it has been in the past. This all started with Sharon and the trashing of Oslo and Palestinian hopes for a decent life.

[geek tragedy]

21. Voltaire comes to mind. nt

[bemildred]

22. "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." -- Voltaire

One of the early ones that saw us clearly for what we are.

But I get snotty about this subject because I said back then they would regret this my way or the highway shit and pissing on the Palestinians too vigorously. Being the obvious asshole in the situation has drawbacks, it doesn't matter who you are or how much you think yourself the injured party.

Look what is happening to Schauble and Merkel now. Bush did that to us too, he did, he made a play for biggest asshole on the planet. I can remember when Americans abroad were treated with some respect.

And Bibi has finished the job that Sharon started of delegitimizing Israel.

[geek tragedy]

23. It's one thing to disregard one's antagonists

quite another to spurn one's closest friends. Israel's many problems do not include having too many friends.

Europe is a hot mess--the Italians have been the most level-headed . . .