Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:15 AM Jun 2013

What Our World Would Look Like Without Honeybees {pic heavy}

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-world-without-honeybees-2013-6?op=1



A world without honeybees would also mean a world without fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds.

Nearly one-third of the world's crops are dependent on honeybees for pollination, but over the last decade the black-and-yellow insects have been dying at unprecedented rates both in the United States and abroad.

Without commercial beekeepers, farmers will not be able to scrape together enough bees to pollinate their fields.


The majority of fruits and vegetables would go away. That includes apples, cherries, blueberries, avocado, broccoli, most leafy greens, cucumbers, pumpkins, and many more.
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

gordianot

(15,252 posts)
1. I know two bee keepers who have been keeping bees for decades have given up.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:26 AM
Jun 2013

In the case of one bee keeper he kept the same variety of bees a legacy variety from his Great Grandfather, they are all gone.

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
3. Honeybees are really, really important. But, not important enough to allow stretching of the truth:
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 09:43 AM
Jun 2013
The majority of fruits and vegetables would go away. That includes apples, cherries, blueberries, avocado, broccoli, most leafy greens, cucumbers, pumpkins, and many more.


The foods would go away only if they were ONLY pollinated by honeybees. This is not the case for cherries, apples, blueberries, avocado, broccoli, most leafy greens, cucumbers, pumpkins, and all nuts. That is, the entire list.


A world without honeybees would also mean a world without fruits, vegetables, nuts, and seeds.


I guess it would always be winter, and trees would be incapable of growing leaves.

The extinction of honeybees would be tragic, but, sweet Jesus, can we stick to the facts please!!!

daybranch

(1,309 posts)
4. understates the reality
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 10:56 AM
Jun 2013

the trees would not just be barren as they are in winter. The farmer/orchardist would cut them down to make space for something that would produce food. The picture accurately portrays the barrenness of the trees and no one is raisng these trees to make leaves.
How do you show the absence of fruit from our lives better?

 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
6. "How do you show the absence of fruit from our lives better?" Holy crap.
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:37 PM
Jun 2013

Please tell me one thing in my post that could possibly justify that response.

Did I say honeybees are unimportant?
Did I say that the fruit trees would not be producing food?

That picture portrays a well-managed, highly manicured orchard in the dead of winter and nothing more.

NickB79

(19,288 posts)
9. Native pollinators are being hammered as well
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 05:05 PM
Jun 2013
The foods would go away only if they were ONLY pollinated by honeybees. This is not the case for cherries, apples, blueberries, avocado, broccoli, most leafy greens, cucumbers, pumpkins, and all nuts. That is, the entire list.


With the multiple blows of climate change, insecticide overuse, and destruction of habitat, native and wild pollinators are also seeing their numbers drop in many areas. Farmers are ripping out edge habitat left and right to expand farmland due to the high crop prices we've been seeing the past decade. A simple Google search of "native pollinators declining" will bring up dozens of scholarly articles documenting this trend. Hell, even the picture used in the OP, of what you call a "well-managed" orchard, shows intensive weed control between the rows with no flowering plants visible to support wild pollinators. I know, this is an orchard in late fall/winter, so maybe that is clover which will bloom in spring and summer, but that's not assured.

We could theoretically do just fine without honeybees, IF we maintained sufficient habitat for wild crop pollinators for a given acreage of farmland. We are NOT doing that, however.
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
10. Totally agree!
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 07:36 PM
Jun 2013

I think part of the problem we've created for ourselves is that honeybee hives use for pollinating are all one species. A monocrop of flying insects, if you will. We know the folly of that approach in crop agriculture, and the same holds in this instance.

Diversity is the key, but we need to take steps that the environment is safe for all pollinators.

mopinko

(70,315 posts)
5. if farmers would quit planting edge to edge and leave more room for nature
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 12:17 PM
Jun 2013

honeybees would be a WHOLE lot less important. there are lots of wild bees and wasps that are perfectly good, sometime better, pollinators than honey bees.
but you have to leave them some habitat.

NickB79

(19,288 posts)
8. Then we have to stop farming like we're running factories
Sun Jun 23, 2013, 04:49 PM
Jun 2013
Without commercial beekeepers, farmers will not be able to scrape together enough bees to pollinate their fields.


Correction: Without commercial beekeepers, FACTORY farmers will not be able to scrape together enough bees to pollinate their fields while still clearcutting the remaining woodlands and prairies.

The future of farming lies in small, diversified farms that have many revenue streams from multiple crop and livestock varieties. This means a small orchard with varied fruit species, a woodlot that yields firewood, lumber and nuts, properly rotated pastures, properly rotated and occassionally fallowed fields of 10-40 acres each, flocks of chickens roaming about, and wild spaces where nature can find refuge from humans.

The days of farming 1000-acre fields and 10,000-apple-tree orchards are numbered.
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
12. I live in the deep woods
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 12:42 AM
Jun 2013

There are no large farms around these parts. Mainly woods.

The number of wild bees and other flying insects is greatly diminished these last two years. And I do mean greatly.

This isn't due to a farming, or a pesticide problem. It IS something else. Do I really have to remind you good people about Fukushima?

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
14. Yeah ...
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 08:40 AM
Jun 2013

> I haven't seen any passenger pigeons this year either.

... and the dodo count is right down too!

Fucking Fukushima.

GreenPartyVoter

(72,384 posts)
16. I hadn't seen many the last few years, but the white clover in my yard has drawn in a nice number,
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 02:28 PM
Jun 2013

at least comparatively speaking. Still not as many as there ought to be, though.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
17. Where are the flowers?
Tue Jun 25, 2013, 09:51 AM
Jun 2013

In deep woods, the flowers of the trees are in the taller branches and thus there is where the bees are. As forest ages, you have less and less plants (and flowers and thus less nectar) on or near the ground, so the bees avoid those areas. To expect bees in deep woods to be near the ground is like expecting dolphins in the Sahara desert. i.e. nothing to attract the bees to the deep woods.

Furthermore, bees follow whatever is in flower. Where I live you have a lot of Knotweed, they go into flower about July 15th, and as long as they are in flower you see a lot of bees around the Knotweed. On the other hand, it is now June 25th, knotweed is not yet in flower and you do NOT see a single bee (and knotweed tends to crowd out any other type of plants and thus they is nothing in flower.

Second factor: Honey bees are NOT native to North America, they are native to Europe, Asia and Africa (African bees being just a more aggressive bee then the Italian bees that is the norm for honey bees in the US). North America was the single largest forest in the wood before White Settlement and as such the native pollinators tended to be deep woods creatures and being solitary hard to spot. Studies have shown that native pollinators may pollinate more plants then Honey bees but can not be moved around like Honeybees. Thus they are hard to see and detect, but their effect is while known. They also need plants to go into flower throughout the year, and thus are useless in areas of mono-culture.

On the other hand, in areas of mono-culture, you can go for miles and see nothing but one type of plant. Now this is NOT a problem for Grains (Corn and Wheat) both of which do NOT need bees to pollinate (Wind pollination is good enough for wheat, Corn pollinates itself) but it is a problem for plants that need a pollinator. To do mono-culture with such plants require the use of honey bees. No other pollinator can be moved around from one mono-culture plant area to the next. With Honey bees under stress, the ability to pollinate these crops drops to almost nothing (i.e. no honey bees no mono-culture of plants that needs a pollinator).

Mono-Culture also hurts native pollinators for such mono-culture prevents other plants from growing in the area and thus native pollinators have no flowers to seek nectar from once the mono-culture plant is done flowering. No Nectar no food for such native pollinators and they die out.

Now, it appears that the use of nicotine based insecticides are the final straw with the Honey bees, it appears NOT to be the only reason for the die off. The movements of the bees means bees interact with other bees from other hives and spread diseases quicker then if the bees did not move around as much. Thus bees were under stress BEFORE these new nicotine based insecticides came out and thus the insecticides appear just to be the last straw that broke the back of honey bees industry, not the single thing that killed off the honey bees (Honey bees that are NOT moved around tend to be thriving, provided they are in isolation from to many bees that are moved. In my area I know of a farm with several thriving honey bees colonies, but the colonies are never moved from the farm AND the farm is fairly isolated from areas with extensive farming (It is actually surrounded by woods and only 60 acres of mixed farming).

Given that the new insecticide is just one factor, its elimination would be part of any plan to save the honeybee, but such plans should also include isolation of honey bees so to slow down the spread of other diseases. It has been proposed to do so in North America by prohibiting bees from crossing the Great Plains. The Great Plains, today, is one huge cereal farming area and as such a nature barrier for bees (Wheat and Corn do not need bees to pollinate). The Mississippi River is a poor barrier for various wild plants exists on its banks and as such a nature draw for bees from both sides of the river. The Appalachians Mountains are a decent barrier, but one with a lot of areas for bees to travel looking for and finding flowers. The Appalachians Mountains can be used as a barrier, with the understanding that it will NOT be a total barrier, just a barrier to slow down the spread of bee diseases.

The biggest opposition to this is the Almond farmers of California. Almonds need bees (Through the California department of Agriculture is working on a almond that does not need bees, the almonds are inferior to Almonds that depend on bees). California is the #1 Almond producing area in the world and need a lot of bees for its miles of almond trees. The problem is once the almonds are done flowering, the demand for bees on the west coast is to low for many, if not most, of the bees to stay on the West Coast. The bee keepers on the West Coast work themselves up to Northern California, then to Oregon, Washington and British Columbia but none of these areas have the demand for bees as the almond farms of California. Thus many bee keepers start in California, then return their bees to the American South, where they interact with bee keepers who had started in Florida and work they way north as the crops that need bees to pollinate come into flower. The next year many of these Eastern Bees go to California to pollinate the Almond crop again.

Thus all the bees in North America come into contact with each other very quickly. Among wild pollinators (if the disease is restricted to said wild pollinators) disease spreads very slowly, only as fast as the native pollinator can fly and then only as they come into contact with other native pollinators. This gives them time to adapt to the new disease (and it is harder for the native pollinators to be hit by more then one disease at a time). Among Honey bees, given the above massive movement of honey bees, such interaction is national almost within a year and this permits the honey bees to be also hit by multiple disease all at the same time (This mixed with the use of the new nicotine based insecticide seems to be the reason for the recent die off).

Given the above, honey bees are in decline due to taking to many hits all at once. We need to reduce how fast such hits hit the honey bees, but that means restricting movement of bees and California will oppose that for they need East Coast and Mid West Bees for their almonds. It is the multiple hits the bees are taking that they are in decline and unless we address that problem, honey bees will continue to decline even if we ban these new nicotine based insecticides (Which I do support, but that it is just one step in a two step solution to honey bee population decline).

Javaman

(62,534 posts)
15. Yup.
Mon Jun 24, 2013, 09:51 AM
Jun 2013

Orginally I got my bees to help my garden, which they did, but now, I keep them so they can multiply and swarm in the spring.

oh and the honey too.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»What Our World Would Look...