Maybe an off day to bring this up, but I can't help wondering if we Dems just aren't thinking big or bold enough?

[dutch777]

The BS the RWers are doing to try and tie every meaningful piece of business in the House to some half baked set of spending cuts is stupid. BUT, I do think the level of national debt is troubling to many AND not in the nation's best long term interest. I keep thinking a bigger, bolder, more comprehensive and long term plan to begin to fully cover the national budget yearly and pay down long term debt would be good for the country AND could boost the view of the Dems over the Repugs in the eyes of many. Rather than nit pick a few spending cuts and raise a few taxes almost no one cares about, how about a much bigger plan over say at least ten years that is more comprehensive and has a real trend line to lower the debt? It is hard when you want to protect SS, Medicare and the Defense budgets, but it is doable and I think a case for less corporate welfare and tax breaks can be made and would be popular among voters. A bonus for many would be simplifying the tax code. I could go on and on but I really think that it would enhance Biden's and the Dems 2024 election chances. Similarly, I think a new comprehensive and meaningful change to border control and immigration could undercut the Repugs use of that issue as well.

[TigressDem]

1. How does 34 Billion sound for starters? Is that bold or wimpy?

https://www.finance.senate.gov/chairmans-news/finance-chair-wyden-reveals-shocking-new-data-about-wealthy-individuals-who-have-failed-to-file-tax-returns-nearly-1000-millionaires-have-not-filed-returns-and-owe-estimated-34-billion-in-taxes-few-wealthy-non-filers-are-prosecuted

September 28,2023
Finance Chair Wyden Reveals Shocking New Data About Wealthy Individuals Who Have Failed to File Tax Returns; Nearly 1,000 millionaires Have Not Filed Returns and Owe Estimated $34 billion in Taxes; Few Wealthy Non-Filers Are Prosecuted

[dutch777]

13. Yeah, but the Repugs want to keep talking about cutting SS and Medicare. That's a winner with senior voters.

[TigressDem]

2. Millionaires not even FILING their tax returns... Billionaires paying max of 8.2%

Pursuing TAX CHEATS is where the money is for building the economy.
We need to get as on message with this as we are on abortion rights.
TAX CHEATS in the top tiers MUST be made an example of so this cheating stops.
IF the wealthy actually PAID their taxes, we could debate on lower rates for them, a flat tax even.


https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/do-the-rich-pay-their-fair-share/

Do billionaires pay their fair share?

Billionaires in the US pay a smaller tax rate than most teachers and retail workers. Thanks to a tax code that favors income from wealth over income from work—and a slew of tax-avoidance strategies—the richest among us end up paying a smaller percentage of their income to the federal government than most working families.

Here’s what we know:

Since 2020, the richest 1 percent have captured almost two-thirds of all new wealth.

According to a 2021 White House study, the wealthiest 400 billionaire families in the US paid an average federal individual tax rate of just 8.2 percent. For comparison, the average American taxpayer in the same year paid 13 percent.

According to leaked tax returns highlighted in a ProPublica investigation, the 25 richest Americans paid $13.6 billion in taxes from 2014-2018—a “true” tax rate of just 3.4 percent on $401 billion of income.

That’s not paying your fair share. Instead of our tax system rewarding wealth over work, it should ensure that billionaires play by the same set of rules as the rest of us. It’s good for the planet, and it’s essential to the preservation of our democracy

https://www.wolterskluwer.com/en/expert-insights/whole-ball-of-tax-historical-income-tax-rates

BACK during the most prosperous times for America, the "Glory Days" Republican Conservatives supposedly long for.... tax rates were up in the 90% range for the top tier.



AND LET US SAY THIS CLEARLY...... even IF the top tier has to pay OUTRAGEOUS TAXES, they can still afford at least ONE home if not 20 and put food on their table, clothe their children and send them to school.

There is NO "life and death" burden on the rich paying their fair share.

The bottom 50 percent that shares something UNDER 5% of GDP should not be paying a higher percentage than billionaires because they can't afford fancy lawyers or off shore accounts to stash money.

[Silent Type]

6. Current Deficit is $1.7 Trillion. That $34 B is like 8 days of the Deficit. Worth going after, but a drop in bucket.

Gonna take a lot more than that to start cutting Debt, especially at a time we need to bolster Social Security, improve healthcare, education, child care, infrastructure, transportation, climate change, WARS, etc.

[TigressDem]

8. See Post #3 - 700 Billion in 10 years

AND this is without raising tax rates, just collecting what they already owe.

Thing is when you are talking 1.7 Trillion, ONLY the top 1% who have 2/3rds of the wealth can really contribute.

Put the top tier tax rate up to 70%, then they do their deductions and pay about 20% or do a BASE FLAT TAX of 20% that they pay regardless of deductions. Taxing 20% of 2/3rds of the GDP will get more than trying to get more from those sharing the bottom 1/3rd.

[Silent Type]

11. That $700 Billion over 10 years ain't much against $11.7 Trillion Deficit over 10 years. Again, worth getting, but

not much.

[TigressDem]

12. Letting top tier tax cheats get away with not paying is worse.

IF we raise taxes on the top tiers, we STILL have to COLLECT it for that to matter.

Realize that these billions we are discussing are what is ALREADY owed and CRIMINALLY not been paid.
700 Billion in ten years is MORE than any other tax adjustment option and it's simply about holding the rich accountable to pay what they already OWE just like every other American has to.


https://www.statista.com/statistics/299460/distribution-of-wealth-in-the-united-states/


https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2023/04/five-different-ways-of-raising-taxes-on-the-wealthiest-americans

[TigressDem]

3. Follow it up with $163 billion a year - JUST IN TAX EVASION/CHEATS

THIS ISN'T RAISING the rates, simply collecting what it OWED but is withheld because the top 1% can hide money and cheat their way out of paying even what they DO owe.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/business/irs-tax-avoidance.html

The top 1 percent are evading $163 billion a year in taxes, the Treasury finds.

A new report makes the case that narrowing the tax gap is part of the Biden administration’s ambition to create a more equitable economy.

....

The Treasury Department estimates that its tax gap proposals could raise $700 billion over a decade.



$700 billion bold enough for you?


BOOM


Drop the mike.

[Think. Again.]

4. Reverse trump's ultra-rich tax break?

[peppertree]

5. And Dubya's - plus all the Defense-related corruption

"Forget the $2 trillion in missing money, and how this looks - I saw plane pieces this big."

[Think. Again.]

7. Yup....

[TigressDem]

9. Yep. AND give IRS the power to collect from top 10% what they OWE.

tRUMP is cheating on his taxes, millionaires aren't even filing, and appealing to the average person with...


"Hey, if YOU and I have to pay our fair share of taxes or go to jail, then the rich CERTAINLY should too."

"Like BOO HOO they can't afford that second trip to Milan or another Rolex."

People on the bottom 50% get fully wiped out from hospital bills, lose their homes and STILL have to pay taxes.

Rich people hide behind lawyers and stash money in other countries. TAX CHEATS MUST PAY.

AND it is also putting tRUMP in the same category.

Gives average folk a reason to be mad at his crimes.

[Think. Again.]

10. I agree 100%....

...the most basic responsibility of the IRS is to collect all taxes owed.

They should do that.