Plebgate: Andrew Mitchell loses libel case

[muriel_volestrangler]

Mr Mitchell sued News Group Newspapers over claims in the Sun newspaper that he called PC Toby Rowland a "pleb" in 2012.

Mr Mitchell acknowledged that he had used bad language but maintained he had not used the word "pleb".

But Mr Justice Mitting said he was satisfied that the MP did say the words alleged.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30235009

Long live tweeting of the judge's decision here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/nov/27/scotland-should-control-income-tax-says-smith-commission-reaction-politics-live-blog#block-54773c49e4b05735abcbf5b6

It looks like he took a 10 minute break to allow the basic decision to be reported; presumably things like who pays costs will be covered later. A significant part of his judgement seems to have been "the police were too stupid to make up the story".

[LeftishBrit]

1. My guess is that he didn't actually say 'pleb'...

just because it's not a common term to use these days. But is swearing at the police much better? An ordinary person who swore at the police would be risking a lot of trouble.

But I can't say I really put HUGE faith in either the police or Mr. Mitchell. And still less in 'The Sun'.

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. I find it quite believable that someone born in 1956 and educated at Rugby School

would say 'pleb'. It's quite a public school thing to say. He risked starting this libel action, though, which either indicates he was sure he didn't say it because he never would (also possible - just a question of how he personally talks) , or he thought they'd look too much like they had collaborated to makes things up - the involvement of The Sun automatically making them look shifty.

[pennylane100]

6. I believe that it is legal to swear at the police

in this country, and I think that flipping them off is also permissible. It seems a stretch to charge someone with calling police names.
which is why I never understood why the politician would sue for slander.

[pennylane100]

3. I have not lived in UK for forty years

and have never heard of the word "pleb". Has it always been used and why is it considered such an insult. I took it to mean a person who is new at his job, and her job if it applies to both sexes.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. It comes from the Roman term 'plebians', as opposed to the 'patricians'

According to the OED it has become American slang (also as 'plebe') for a cadet at a military academy; but it has an extensive British use dating from 1795, but continuing, as " A member of the ordinary people or working classes; = plebeian n. 2. Freq. derogatory: an unsophisticated or uncultured person." (and in the plural, meaning "The ordinary people, the populace; (derogatory) the mob", it dates from 1591). OED quotes include Coleridge, H.G. Wells, Aldous Huxley, and the Daily Star (2004) - that being "Maybe I'm just a pleb but I like a hotel holiday with a couple of nearby discos and a few shops".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebs

I can't find the Daily Star quote online, but in a similar vein from the 2002 Daily Mail we have:

Of course, it's all rubbish. There's no doubt that St Tropez and its wealthy clientele are not the most egalitarian of people - a French magazine once contacted some of its more famous residents and asked them to back a bogus 'antipleb' charter to keep out the undesirables.

They leapt at the chance to sign. With the exception of veteran French rocker Johnny Hallyday who - to his great credit - responded: 'Plebs? These are my fans!'

But what if you are a pleb, can you afford to go to St Tropez and the surrounding area? And what if, even worse, you are a pleb with children?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/holidaytypeshub/article-587778/St-Tropez-Its-snip.html

Or 2009 Guardian:

Perhaps the staff spot my inner pleb, but my friend and I are shown to the worst table in the restaurant – cut off by a big dresser used as a serving station.

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2009/dec/06/dean-street-townhouse-hotel-review

[pennylane100]

5. Thanks for the info.

I do not think I would be very insulted if I were called a pleb. I came from a working class family and very proud of it. I think that when referring to a person who lacked manners or was crude and rude, we use to refer to them as a bunch of peasants, which was probably an insult to peasants everywhere.