Maybe it is inevitable that our democracy is going through such a crisis. After all we are the...

[Soph0571]

...oldest modern democracy around, and with age can come intransigence, stubbornness, an expectation of respect (potentially without earning it) and spiders running around the attic.

Brexit has led to a national breakdown of mental health and well being. A national breakdown that has been witnessed around the world...



Heh

[rampartc]

2. maybe that national breakdown of mental health led to brexit?

I've wondered if maybe a few adjustments in the relationship with Europe could have been achieved without scrapping the entire common market?

or maybe, at least, the open border with Ireland (and peace) could be maintained amid a greater Brexit?

[Soph0571]

5. What came first - the chicken or the egg? n/t

[Denzil_DC]

7. I was going to reply something similar.

Last edited Fri Nov 1, 2019, 10:57 AM - Edit history (2)

I see Brexit as a proxy for the long-term malaise in the UK that's seen a series of governments elected that are in the grand scheme of things visionless, directionless and terminally inward-looking (when they aren't joining in on the latest US international aggression).

Brexit won't solve any of the various problems its proponents supposedly object to. Hell, even if the UK leaves the EU in January, it won't "get it done" as the easily bored seem to hope, it'll just be the start of the next phase of torturous negotiations while the economy continues to tank. Next year will drive that home.

As things stand, winning the next election will be a poisoned chalice for whatever party gets in. If things have seemed messy over the past three years or so, I fear we've seen nothing yet.

[Soph0571]

4. This is posted in the UK group

I am talking about the British democracy...

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. I'd dispute that we counted as a democracy before 1832

In early-19th-century Britain very few people had the right to vote. A survey conducted in 1780 revealed that the electorate in England and Wales consisted of just 214,000 people - less than 3% of the total population of approximately 8 million. In Scotland the electorate was even smaller: in 1831 a mere 4,500 men, out of a population of more than 2.6 million people, were entitled to vote in parliamentary elections. Large industrial cities like Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester did not have a single MP between them, whereas 'rotten boroughs' such as Dunwich in Suffolk (which had a population of 32 in 1831) were still sending two MPs to Westminster. The British electoral system was unrepresentative and outdated.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/struggle_democracy/getting_vote.htm

We weren't an absolute monarchy, but voting was a restricted privilege, depending on sex, wealth and the history of your city or town.

[T_i_B]

8. I would strongly agree with you

The Great Reform Act of 1832 is a hugely important turning point in our politics. It allowed progressive changes to happen and stopped the need for reform turning into a need for revolution.

In fact a strong case could be made for Earl Grey being our best Prime Minister on the basis of this and the abolition of slavery in UK territories alone.

[T_i_B]

9. Demographics play a large part here

The UK has an aging population, with a large proportion of the population being over 60. The elderly are very susceptible to backward looking, reactionary and at times bigoted politics. And it's the elderly who are the most likely to vote in elections.

The OAP block vote is an enormous part of British politics at present, it's been a major factor in the rise of UKIP, the Tories ever rightward drift, the Tories moving away from being a party of trade and free enterprise, Labour's decline in old coal mining areas with an aging population and of course the 2016 referendum and subsequent disastrous project to leave the EU.

There are other factors that have exacerbated things such as the failure of political parties to attract and recruit the best and brightest people but the massive OAP block vote is a major factor, and how it splits between the Conservative party and the Brexit pity party will define the general election.