So, I just saw that my plane crashed

[DFW]

A German Wings flight between Barcelona, Spain and Düsseldorf, Germany just crashed in the French Alps. I take German WIngs between Barcelona and Düsseldorf usually at least once a month, sometimes three time that.

This scares the living shit outta me, because it could easily have been a flight with me on it. The initial reports said the plane was flying at 6800 feet. WHAT THE HELL WAS A PLANE DOING FLYING AT 6800 FEET OVER THE ALPS?????? Half of those mountains are well over 6800 feet high. I hope the reason for the crash is found, and soon, or I'm taking the train next time, even though it takes two days to get there.

[Ptah]

1. Yikes!

According to the flight tracking website Flightradar24, the flight climbed to
38,000 feet before it started to descend, and the signal was lost at 6,800 feet.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/airbus-plane-crashes-southern-france/story?id=29862330

[LittleGirl]

2. very scary indeed

I live in Basel and this is very scary.

[Blanks]

3. It's on the TV now...

Oddly, I thought of you when I saw it because it mentioned Düsseldorf. Isnt that your handle at RVR?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. what is RVR?

rapid ventricular response

Runway Visibility Range

River Valley Ranch

Realm vs. Realm

Renal Vascular Resistance

a Mitsubishi vehicle

[Blanks]

50. Rush versus reality.

Although a River Valley Ranch would probably be more fun.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

53. lolol ... probably right about that -

Rush versus Reality Forums - Yuku
rushversusreality.yuku.com/directory

Rush versus Reality A clothes-nit community of liberals and other ne'er-do-wells who survived the Great Purge of MSN communities

[Blanks]

59. Barely survived, and then slowly died out. eom

[DFW]

65. I use the German abbreviation

"D'Dorf" but yes, that's my handle at RVR

[dolphinsandtuna]

4. It sounds like it lost power and couldn't maintain altitude.

You're still far safer in a plane than driving.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

15. yes, that was my first thought when reading Ptah's reply above.

the plane malfunctioned in some way.

[Alkene]

82. Not that one.

[PassingFair]

5. Thanks for checking in!!

You were the first person I thought of this morning when I turned my phone on!

Always that inherent risk.
Planes, trains and automobiles.

I'm glad you're safe.

[liberal N proud]

6. That has to be freaky

[malthaussen]

7. I'd probably take the train myself.

I haven't flown very much, not that I'm opposed. But I'm superstitious about things like this. Probably a one-in-a-million chance. Just sucks to be that one, eh?

My mother, who hates to fly, decided to take the train to visit her sister in FLA. Train derailed. One reason Mom hates Florida.

-- Mal

[roody]

8. It's closer to 1 in 8 million.

[DFW]

79. It would take something like 20 hours to get there by train

The 110 minutes of flight is definitely the more appealing solution--especially if the flight lands as scheduled.

[mnhtnbb]

9. Oh, no. How awful...and how scary for you, DFW.

I just finished reading a story on fb about the rising fears of terrorist attacks in France.
While it's not a reassuring concept at all, I do hope this doesn't turn out to
be a result of terrorism. Surely they'll recover the flight recorder/ black box.

[secondwind]

10. My aunt and uncle were late for a flight from Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico, they missed the

plane.

It went down in the Caribbean Sea.... this was in the 70's....

[Chipper Chat]

20. I had a similar experience in 1979.

I was booked on American Airlines Flight 191 from Chicago to Honolulu that went down on takeoff. It was a DC10 and all 300 aboard died. A few days before I had luckily switched my ticket for the same flight 2 days earlier.

[NBachers]

11. As usual, you're putting us right in the middle of significant events beyond the USA's borders

I value your contributions, your writing, and your perspective here. I'm glad you are safe.

I got your book from Amazon. I just have to drag myself away from DU to read it!

[FourScore]

36. Wait! What book?

I want to read DFW's book!

I'm glad you're okay, DFW. That's really scary.

Take the train.

[mnhtnbb]

40. It's a great little page turner.

The Time Cellar http://www.amazon.com/Time-Cellar-Marc-Emory/dp/159967971X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427207108&sr=1-1&keywords=the+time+cellar

Reminds me that I promised to write a review for Amazon and haven't done it. I'll do it today!

[dolphinsandtuna]

56. I just went over and peeked at the preview.

I love science fiction.

[DFW]

73. I've actually had some favorable comments on it

From normal mortals like my DU friends, but also from Howard Dean, Adrian Cronauer, Stan Lee and now even Thom Hartmann (!!!!), so maybe you'll like it, too!

[FourScore]

85. Just put it in my amazon cart!

I lived in Germany for 12 years (1983-1995, Mainz and Berlin) and I am a writer and parent and a DUer!!!

We have so much in common!!!

I can't wait to read it!

[DFW]

93. That is a lot in common!

There isn't much Germany in the book, but I hope you have a good time with it all the same. Let me know!

[DFW]

80. Very weird coincidence about my book and this crash

The main character loses his parents in a plane crash (one that really happened) that eerily resembles this one.

[Mira]

12. I am terrified

right along with you!
I hope you take the train til this is solved.

[steve2470]

13. scary, glad you're ok my friend! nt

[Blue_Tires]

61. +1

[DFW]

96. Thanks, Steve. My luck is still holding

And thus so is your room in the Düsseldorf area if you decide to show up!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

16. good to hear that you weren't on it!

wowser!

[In_The_Wind]

17. Well! It's a damn good thing you were on the ground!

Enjoy your train ride. [img][/img]

[awoke_in_2003]

63. an old pilot's saying

It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground

[In_The_Wind]

64. Indeed! That's a good one.

My last airplane ride was eight years ago.

[Doctor_J]

18. Whoa. that's enough to make me quit smoking

or start.

Strange incident indeed. Keep us posted on the investigation

[panader0]

19. When I saw the news I thought of you right away...

[CTyankee]

21. My mother worked for the now defunct Braniff Airlines back when I was a kid,

a long time ago. She flew propelored aircraft to Europe on passes and was very happy to do so. She said that the day after a crash the airline saw a decrease in ticket sales but they went right back up again the next day.

This plane had such a wonderful safety record I am conjecturing sabotage at this point (wildly so I am sure!). But that's where I stop myself and get on with what I have to do...

[pangaia]

29. ".... conjecturing sabotage at this point ...."

Why? Nobody knows anything yet..

[CTyankee]

46. Exactly my point! My conjecturing doesn't do a damn thing. But my imagination

kicks in big time. It was all they were talking about on Morning Joe today. I had to turn off the TV it was getting so intense.

[pangaia]

49. CT, I have solved the TV problem.

I don't watch TV except for sports. pretty much.

The 'news' shows are all just entertainment shows.
However,. I will confess, last Sunday a week ago I watched 3 tv shows in a row.. just to do it..I tied my arms and legs to the chair so I couldn't turn it off.
uh.. good wife.. madame sec and...grand rapids.

omg... people watch that? terrible acting, bad writing, looked like minimal rehearsal...

You imagination is greatly appreciated here, of course..all those art Fridays..

[CTyankee]

51. thanks. I'm hoping to have something ready for this coming Friday...

just making up for time lost, cancellations, etc due to all the snow storms we had this winter. thank god for the reprieve, I was going nuts being in the house so much of the time.

I don't watch the weekend shows except Kornacki briefly. I like to settle in with coffee and Sunday papers (yes, we read papers still -- meh, we're old).

It's probably normal that everybody speculates on these crashes. Air travel is really safe and yet this safe plane crashed! God Lord, whodunit? What could have possibly gone wrong? I must say I learned more than I wanted to about the codes pilots use for Mayday calls. I just felt so very sorry for those passengers. It must have been terrifying...

[pangaia]

57. I still have my private license,

although I don't get to fly as much as I would like to. Couple friends with their own aircraft- A Piper Tri-Pacer, Cherokee AND a Bellanca Viking ...... Oooooeeee that is nice.

My instructor from back in 1997 is flying for United. She loves it.
So I always chuckle at the comments when there is a plane crash.. at the COMMENTS, mind you , not the crash.

Really looking forward to Friday.

Humm.. maybe I should consider doing a similar thread on classical music...I don't know.. it's a LOT of work...

[CTyankee]

58. Funny, was just on the phone to the Gagosian Gallery (one of them) in NYC

about the location of some of the works of an artist that I will probably present this Friday. I was trying to get someone knowledgable. So far, no help forthcoming. Good luck with your music idea, tho (we are great fans of classical music).

Most unusual not to find the location of works of art. Usually it is just a google search away TA DA. No such luck with this artist. I know this series he did HAS to be somewhere. I did all manner of google searches and found that the Gagosian downtown had a showing of these paintings in 2007. I saw them at the Guggenheim in Bilbao in 2008. They are impressive!

So I may have to just post it without telling folks where they can see it and mea culpa. OR perhaps one of our DUers knows...

[pangaia]

22. Glad you weren't on that flight.

But to this thread in general, why so many comments about, I'm terrified, OMG I will never fly again, I'll take the train.. etc etc.

I can understand this particular event hitting a little closer to home due to DFW's 'close call,' but it still seems like quite a few knee jerk reactions to...flying. Why not be more afraid of being hit by a car while walking across Times Square?

Btw-- would that be Dallas Fort Worth?

[DFW]

66. It would indeed be Dallas Fort Worth

Although these days, my home base is Düsseldorf, from which I often fly down to Barcelona on German Wings, which is why this crash hit close to home.

[pangaia]

75. I can certainly feel that.

But, don't worry. You will be fine.... There is more chance that I will hit a deer on the way to work tomorrow(knock on wood), than you will have a problem with a flight.

[hlthe2b]

23. I just heard about that flight--devastating. I'm SOOOOO glad you weren't on it, DFW

I am so very sorry for those families.

Yes 6800 feet.. Perhaps a failure of the oxygen delivery systems kept them flying low? Who knows....

[pangaia]

28. Who knows is the operative phrase here.

Nobody here knows anything yet.

[MannyGoldstein]

24. "There, but for the grace of God, go I"

Things that make one think.

Glad you're still with us!

The sliver of silver lining for you is that, assuming there was an equipment problem, this will now become the safest route on the globe. A root-cause analysis will find the problem, it will be mitigated, and everyone involved in this route will be extra-vigilant in the future, for some time to come.

[pangaia]

27. Whatever happened will have nothing

at all to do with making this particular route more or less safe.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. Just as DFW is reflecting because this flight is one he often takes

Everyone involved in the service and maintenance of that plane is reflecting, too. They'll instinctively, I believe, challenge themselves to do even better.

I work in an area that's somewhat analogous, involving large and complex systems that can go very wrong very quickly, so my guess is probably not totally nuts.

[pangaia]

47. I just meant that the route has nothing to do with it.

[MannyGoldstein]

55. Agreed. nt

[DFW]

67. Exactly

It was more than a little odd that no distress calls came from the plane. It was in easy (less than 20 minutes flight) air distance from both Lyon and Geneva when it went down, so my personal suspicion (until I hear otherwise) is a drastic failure of the pressurization system which led to swift unconsciousness of all aboard, including the crew. Hence the lack of a Mayday.

[Arugula Latte]

105. "Grace of God"

Interesting phrase, considering that if the premise is there is a deity capable of preventing things like this, that asshole deity didn't do anything to help those poor people on the plane, including several teenagers just starting out on their life adventures.

[MannyGoldstein]

107. I meant it idiomatically rather than literally

I can certainly see your point.

[Arugula Latte]

108. No, I know.

I almost wrote out a disclaimer saying my comment wasn't aimed at you, but religious thinking/god excusing in general, but I got lazy.

[MannyGoldstein]

109. Thank Goddess

Probably the only thing that I haven't been called on DU is a religious wackjob.

[trof]

25. Airbus. If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going.

Period.

[DFW]

100. That kinda cuts down on your options here in Europe

Except for 737s, almost all Boeing planes you see here these days are for intercontinental flights. There are a few nitch short routes flown by Bombardier/Canadair, Embraer and Fokker, but almost everything else now is Airbus.

Boeing isn't totally immune to problems either. We still don't know what happened to that Malaysian 777, and there have been incidents with 747s and 757s, not to mention the overheating on the 787s that they claim is now solved.

Basically, any kind of travel is a lottery where your chances of winning are overwhelmingly in your favor. As we saw yesterday, that doesn't guarantee you will never lose.

[MuseRider]

26. I am so glad you were not on that flight!

Thanks for letting us know. It looks like quite a few were concerned for your safety.

[mountain grammy]

30. So glad you weren't there

but I will fly anytime. What I hate is the getting to the airport, the security, the waiting, the cramped planes, etc. But flying is the only way. The day America moves ahead with high speed rail, or even reliable train service, I may never fly again.

[pipi_k]

32. HOLY SHIT

Man, that just gives me the chills!!!


We had a close call like that in the family on 9/11 when my oldest stepdaughter was supposed to be attending a seminar in one of the WTC towers that day for the company she worked for at the time.

She was sick that day and didn't go.

Her husband was Atlanta at the time on business and must have been shitting himself before finding out she was home safe. He had to rent a car and drive back up here because naturally no planes were flying...


Close calls like that, and like yours, are terrifying. I'm really glad you weren't on that plane.

[CTyankee]

48. OMG, your poor family! It must have been a searing wait to learn she was OK!

But, god, what a close call!

[DFW]

68. My cell phone was ringing constantly

Daughters, friends, colleagues. The only one who didn't call was my wife LOL!! No marital problems, fear not. I have a heavy schedule this week, and a girlfriend invited her on a 4 day exploration of Quedlinburg in the old East Germany, so she went with my blessing. She was hiking out in the hills this morning and knew nothing about this until I called her--but she also knew that I would be in Belgium today, so she never panicked. She was a little unnerved to know it was the same plane she and I had taken not 2 weeks ago.

[Duval]

33. I cannot imagine, DFW.

So glad you are safe. I understand your inclination to go by train the next time.

[libodem]

34. Happy you were not aboard

[Coventina]

35. Jeepers! That would scare the shit outta me too!

Glad you are safe, DFW!!

[flygal]

37. My husband flies them to Switzerland and Austria at least once a month as well. :( Hit close to home

I understand how you feel. We're flying in two days and my kids are not excited at all.

[KoKo]

38. Thought about you, first thing, also...

Scary for sure. But, the safest time to fly is after an incident like this--because everyone is extra careful.

Thank you for checking in! We would have done a DU Alert to find out if you were okay. 's

[Hekate]

39. Eee-yiii, DFW. I'm so glad you are okay, but what a shock for you.

[ailsagirl]

41. I know that, statistically, flying is the safest way to travel...

but I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a fearless flyer.

I'm glad you're OK but how awfully chilling...

[SheilaT]

42. I am likewise glad you weren't on that plane,

but it does make me crazy that people freak out when a plane crashes and decides all flying is unsafe and so they won't fly again. And the crash of a specific plane over a specific route is so incredibly unusual that is has essentially never happened. The closest is the crash of Allegheny 736* on December 24, 1968, and Allegheny 737* on January 6, 1969, both on landing at Bradford Regional Airport, at Bradford, PA, an airport without an instrument landing system (ILS) in snow and reduced visibility. The airline then changed its rules for such landings, and to the best of my knowledge, no such similar pair of crashes has ever happened before or since.

Ex-airline employee here, so I'm very aware of lots of plane crash trivia.

A fast Google search reveals that the deadliest year ever for commercial aviation worldwide, resulted in a total of 2429 deaths.

Almost all of us drive or ride in cars, and even though over 30,000 people die each year in car accidents, hardly anyone gives up driving.

*Flight 736 operated DTW, ERI, BFD, DCA, and flight 737 DCA, BFD, ERI, DTW.

Information is your friend.

[petronius]

69. It seems that humans are just intrinsically bad at statistics. Perhaps there's an evolutionary

explanation: after all, no proto-human getting a drink of water at the savannah watering hole ever said "well, there's a 17.5% chance that that ripple is not a crocodile..."

I've got a flight tomorrow, and despite everything I know about air travel statistics, I also 'know' that plane crashes come in threes, and beyond that, with only two possible outcomes--crash or land safely--every flight is obviously a 50-50 proposition...

[SheilaT]

72. Plane crashes only come in the threes you choose to count.

What's the time frame you want to consider? Or for what airlines? Or for what general part of the world? Do only the crashes that kill passengers count? Maybe this crash in France is the third, considering there was a Transasia crash February 4th, which killed 42 of the 58 passengers and crew, and the Delta flight 1086 which skidded off a runway in LaGuardia earlier this month. No one was killed although there were some injuries.

So probably you can rest easy.

One time I was staying at a hotel at one end of the runway at the St. Louis airport, and I spent quite a bit of time just watching airplane after airplane take off, or airplane after airplane land, and it impressed upon me more than anything else, including those ten years as an airline employee, how remarkably safe and routine almost all flying is.

[hedgehog]

43. Talk about a chess game with Death! As a kid, I was taught never to have a mortal sin on my soul

because who knew when they'd be hit by a bus! It made me look both ways when crossing the street, I'll tell you.

I didn't worry so much about being in a state of MORTAL SIN because I didn't have any plans to murder anyone, and Mom and Dad always got us to Sunday Mass on time.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. Whew!

Sad for the people killed, but it would have been even sadder if we had lost another valuable DUer.

Back on December 29, 1975, there was a bombing (still unsolved) at New York's LaGuardia Airport that killed 11 people and injured 74. It really unnerved me, because I was a grad student at Yale and had flown home through LaGuardia to Minneapolis for Christmas just a few days before. Most of those killed were passengers, drivers, and counter attendants for Connecticut Limousine, which was my usual means of transportation from LaGuardia to New Haven.

[Sheepshank]

45. stuff like this sure makes us re-evaluate all sorts of things

including risk factors.

[femmocrat]

52. Glad you are safe.

[Schema Thing]

54. Glad you're here.

[Major Nikon]

60. The good news is the fares should be lower now

[CTyankee]

71. don't bet on it. I have only seen my fares to Europe each year go UP

I can't understand it. Fuel costs are so much lower and air fares rise. Does not make sense to me.

Can you explain it?

[KamaAina]

62. Swiss tennis player Marc Rosset was booked on Swissair Flight 111

after he lost in the early rounds of the US Open in NYC.

But he decided to stick around and do some shopping. True story.

[DFW]

70. Guitarist Marcel Dadi was on TWA 800

Which never made it to Paris. BIG loss. Karma smiles on all of us in differing doses.

[kairos12]

74. You have now joined the "just missed it" club.

[DFW]

76. Actually, I've been a charter member for decades

1980s: on a tiny propeller plane from here to Brussels, sudden gust of wind turned the wings vertical just prior to landing (!!!). The pilot had amazing reactions, maneuvered the plane immediately to a nearby runway that was 90° from our intended one, and, luckily, unused at the time.

1990s: Düsseldorf Airport--one a day when I was supposed to be there in the afternoon, some welders ignited some dioxin-containing wire coverings, and toxic fumes spread throughout the whole terminal B. All the people in the elevators and the Air France lounge were killed, and many more suffered permanent lung damage. I had cancelled my flight that day to be with my wife to take my daughters and some of their classmates on a day's outing to an amusement park in Holland, about a 2 hour drive from here.

1990s again: some "brave" warriors for something or other decide to leave a handbag full of explosives and a timer at the Frankfurt airport, killing a few people at the entrance. I had been right there at exactly that time--the day before.

2004: On a trip with my wife to Italy, while climbing a hill near Firenze, I feel a few twitches in my left shoulder and some uncharacteristic shortness of breath. Nothing drastic, but I know what those symptoms COULD mean, so the next Monday, I called up a local cardiologist and asked for an appointment. They said they were fully booked for two months. But this was Germany, so I said I'd pay cash, and suddenly they had an opening that afternoon (it's not as great as many would have you believe here). They did an EKG and saw something was amiss, so could I come back Wednesday for a stress-echo test? I said OK, and did. On Wednesday, the cardiologist freaked out and sent me within the hour to a top cardiac clinic in Essen, half an hour from here. The professor there took me ASAP when he saw my chart, put in in 2 stents, and said another day, and I might have been delivered to him as a DOA. I had two anterior arteries 99% blocked, and it was only a question of hours, and I might have made to a hospital alive, but might not have, too.


I just wonder how many near misses I have left.

[kairos12]

77. I like your chances. I'd buy a ticket next to you on the next plane.

[DFW]

78. I admire your guts!

My luck has held so far (I didn't even mention the hairy flight out of Havana in 1982...don't EVER get in an Ilyushin 62!), but it's gotta run out some time.

[dolphinsandtuna]

81. counting this flight, four left. You are a cat, right?

[DFW]

92. Me? Ow! n/t

[bvar22]

83. If you knew WHO was flying those planes,

you would never get on one again.
Pilots are no longer taught how to FLY THE PLANE.
They are taught how to operate the autopilot, and thats it.

There are still some "pilots" left, but most pilots who are worth their license have already moved to the Corporate Businesses.

[Capt.Rocky300]

86. Sorry, but you haven't got the faintest idea of what.......

you are talking about.

Corporate aviation is risky and the pay is a fraction of that made by those at the airlines. When I say risky, I mean there is little job security. When the bottom line comes up short, the first thing to go is the company airplane and its pilots are put on the street. I have many friends who have ridden that roller coaster.

I will agree that some younger aviator's stick and rudder skills are not as good as those of past generations. We don't know if that is the case here as far as I've heard.

[bvar22]

87. Your premise contradicts the body of your post.

You say:

you haven't got the faintest idea of what you are talking about.

In then in the body text, you say:

I will agree that some younger aviator's stick and rudder skills are not as good as those of past generations.

Your agreement with me about the lack pilotage skills reveals that you do believe I have more that the 'faintest' idea.

I earned my Commercial License in 1969, and have been a lifelong aviation enthusiast.
Most of my time has been in high performance aerobatic sport craft.
I loved snap rolling on top of loops.

I have also closely watched commercial aviation, especially the crashes and the NTSB reports.

Do you remember this one?

T
American Airlines flight 587 in Queens, N.Y., on Nov. 12, 2001. The crash occurred soon after take-off from New York's JFK airport, when the Airbus A300-605R's tail came apart. All 260 on the plane were killed, as were five people on the ground.

The National Transportation Safety Board found that the plane's tail fin -- the vertical stabilizer -- tore off because the pilot put too much stress on the rudder by flipping it from side to side "

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/2012/11/19/airbus-rudder/1707421/

"the vertical stabilizer -- tore off because the pilot put too much stress on the rudder by flipping it from side to side "
The day of THAT crash was the last time I flew on a Commercial Airline.


So it does look like I have more than the faintest idea of what I'm talking about.

[Capt.Rocky300]

91. You are right.....

I did contradict myself. The premise was all inclusive and my individual points strayed from that.

Never the less, other than my agreement that some young pilots (but not all) lack good good airmanship skills, they still must demonstrate skills beyond just engaging the autopilot to pass a checkride. That crash was attributed to the First Officer's over use of the rudder to correct for wake turbulence as I recall. He may have but I've never been convinced that was true. Having over 7,000 hours in the left seat of the A300-600, I can tell you that "The Bus" has a very effective rudder. Just a little pressure and the airplane immediately yaws. I can't imagine any captain just sitting there letting the f/o get more than one little push on a rudder pedal before telling him to stop.

I stand by my comments regarding corporate aviation. In my 50 years in aviation, I've known quite a few pilots that worked for companies because they couldn't get hired by the airlines for one reason or another. Sometimes the lack of a college degree was enough to keep them out. They may be excellent pilots but if you asked them if they would rather nap on a couch in a pilot lounge at some FBO waiting for the big shots to close a deal or be making several grand more a month flying a 737 for Southwest, I doubt many would choose the former.

At this point I haven't heard any likely cause for the crash so I'm not sure why you made the statement you did regarding pilot skills.

I got my commercial in 1969 too. And my days of occasionally flying a Citabria upside down are long gone.

[bvar22]

110. AH...the 60s... What a wonderful time to learn to fly.

Back then, you had to be a Hanger Rat for a year or so before earning some stick time.

[div class="excerpt" After reading the above, I feel I left the impression that ALL Commercial Pilots are idiots. That is not true. There are 100 competent professionals for every dufus. It is just when the dufus makes a mistake trying to fly the autopilot instead of the airplane, he now kills 400 people.


If you learned to fly in the 60s, then you're training included unusual attitudes and spins, and you didn't even see a Wing Leveler for the first year.
New trainee pilots aren't trained in spin recovery or (really) unusual attitudes (like inverted and rolling), and many have never experienced an actual spin in their training.


My first love was a 100 horse Super Cub with a constant speed prop (converted Ag plane) and a beautiful sunburst paint job. It still had those long, LONG wings (rated for 0 negative), so we had to be a little careful to keep everything positive, but that was such an easy and fun plane to fly. Back then, I could have bought one for $35K.

I was romanced away from the SuperCub by a brand new Bellanca Decathlon, and I still cherish that airplane.

Somewhere in my early 30s, I developed a sinus/ear problem that disoriented me whenever I turned my head to the left to watch the wing tip during verticals,.... and aerobatics was over.

So it goes.
It still seems that there are more accidents caused by pilots flying the autopilot instead of the airplane. Remember that Eastern Flight that "flew" into the Florida swamps? Had either pilot gotten their nose out of the manual and looked outside, or at least at the altimeter,
that flight would have landed safely.

[Capt.Rocky300]

112. It does seem a high price to pay......

but some positive changes did come out of the EAL 407 crash. Emergency and Abnormal checklists were changed to include at the top, "Captain Designate Flying Authority". It established that someone would have to mind the store while the nonflying pilot, and back in the good old days a flight engineer, worked on the problem. The other change was installation of an aural warning when the autopilot disengaged for any reason. It's sad those people died because of a burned out bulb in green gear down light but I'm sure the changes that came out of the crash saved many lives since.

Frankly, I do have some concern about some of the crew members at some airlines. The fact is there has always been a small percentage of pilots who have made it to the front seats who didn't belong there. The common figure thrown around in the industry is 10%. It wasn't anywhere near that high at the airline I flew for. It may be higher at some foreign carriers. Unfortunately, it seems the accidents in recent years have featured those types of folks. I can only hope it is coincidence and not a trend.

I have seen dramatic and huge improvements in airline training over the years. That is the key along with hiring the best in the first place. The process should require a thorough checkride in a simulator to test their stick and rudder skills as well as general knowledge and especially, judgement. This is done at the majors but the Regionals either can't afford or are unwilling to pay for the sim time. They should have to.

Like you, I think spin training is an essential component to being a safe pilot. When I was a flight instructor decades ago, I was instructed by my boss to not do spins if it wasn't required. His concern was that it would scare students away from continuing toward their license. So, the only spins I taught were to pilots working on their CFI. Stupid policy.

Something that disturbed me in the later years of my career was the influx of young pilots who's primary motivation was money and the benefits. They didn't really care about flying. They couldn't tell a Super Cub from an Ercoupe or a 707. There was no passion for flying. I don't know if those are the types of pilots who have poor records or not and maybe it's irrelevant. I do know there is another side to the coin. I've lost some friends who loved aviation to their core and still died in an airplane.

Yeah, the 60's were a great time to be part of general aviation. When I was in college I used to rent a J3 for $3.50 an hour wet and fly with the door and window open at 500' yelling at the cows and waving to the girls. Probably not a good idea in this day and age unless you want to meet some Homeland Security agents when you land.

So ends my ramblings.

[a la izquierda]

99. I hope they're all my brother-in-law.

He flew KC-135s in the Air Force. He now flies for Southwest.

[ErikJ]

84. Take the overnight and/ or bullet TGV trains.

Much better view too.

[No Vested Interest]

88. I think I'm staying away from Europe and points East for a while,

maybe for the rest of my lifetime.
I've had a yearning to see Barcelona, but perhaps it will never happen.

Thank goodness, there's still plenty to see and do in this hemisphere.

[DFW]

95. That is one yearning you should give in to!!!!!

I first saw Barcelona as a teenager in mid-1968, lived there til mid-1969. It has changed, but not so much that it has been ruined. The Barri Gòtic (Gothic Quarter) is, except for electricity and running water, little changed from about 500 years ago. The tiny narrow streets with their typically Mediterranean courtyards are an urban miracle and you can take in the eye candy for a week. The Parc Güell is unique, and Gaudi's buildings are worth the trip alone.

I learned to speak Catalan while I was living there, so it's more "home" to me than it would be to most outsiders, but just about everyone there speaks fluent Spanish as well, and even if you don't know any Spanish, it's a friendly city.

If you make no other trip abroad in your life, definitely see Barcelona--although as long as you're in the neighborhood, IF you're in the neighborhood, go see Prague as well. THEN you can kiss Europe goodbye, but no one should miss either of those two cities before they go off to explore Valhalla.

[C Moon]

89. Wow! That's like something out of a movie! Sad for those who lost their lives. :(

[MADem]

90. Fly KLM or Lufthansa to Madrid--then take the train to Barcelona--it's a 3 hour trip.

Bring something to read or keep you busy.

I think the larger airlines might be a better bet in the near term.

That plane was almost 25 years old.

[DFW]

94. German Wings IS Lufthansa

It was originally a startup competitor who was so good, LH declared war on them and bankrupted them with loss-leading fares on routes GW competed on. Pissed off a LOT of people here in Germany. When GW was a bankrupt paper entity, LH bought up the shell and kept the name. Air Berlin eventually became serious competition for LH, and so LH ditched many of its short-haul routes and re-incarnated German Wings to be a low-cost competitor. Now GW flights are cramped like sardine cans and make you pay €2.50 even for coffee or tea. I hate them. But when Air Berlin ceased its early morning flight to Barcelona, German Wings was the only game in town if you wanted to be there before noon--either that or fly down the night before, which I have done once or twice.

Barcelona is still one of my absolutely all-time favorite cities on this planet, and if I end up as ground beef on the side of an Alp because of my love of the place, its a price I'll eventually pay (just not this week).

By the way, LOTS of planes flying commercially are 25 years old (or older!). When I get on some of the Delta 767s or American MD-80s in the States, I can almost hear the bones creak. If the maintenance is properly done, the planes should either be airworthy or grounded. Of course, if some airline decides to cut corners on the maintenance in the interests of saving money, not the safest plane in the world is safe any more. LH already cut corners to make GW competitive. I'd be appalled to hear that this was the case here, but it would not be precedent-setting if it were.

I haven't yet done the Talgo between Madrid and Barcelona since I am so rarely in Madrid. Some day.......

[MADem]

97. Do they share maintenance crews, or do the GW craft get the 2nd tier guys?

Say, you could fly to Paris and take the high speed train down to Barcelona, too. Might be a bit pricier, and that would be a longer trip, you'd be on the train for six hours or so I think. I haven't tried that train yet, I hear it's nice. Take in the scenery, have a snack, a nap and you're there.

Or, if you like the open road, you could drive, but that's a long haul by car.

[DFW]

98. I don't know to what extent they share maintenance crews

If at all, but it's the same outfit basically, and the same equipment, so it would make sense. But GW was a cost-cutting move, so that LH wouldn't have to offer their regular service and be price-competitive with Air Berlin at the same time. To what extent, if at all, that extended to GW's maintenance I don't know, and LH certainly isn't going to tell us if they were cutting corners--especially now.

I'm in Paris often enough, and I don't care about the money. It's the time I don't have. The TGV from Paris to Barcelona leaves from the Gare de Lyon--at least half an hour away from anything I have to do in Paris--at 7:13 in the morning, so way too early to get anything done in Paris that day, and doesn't arrive in Barcelona until 1:30 in the afternoon, so I'd only have the afternoon in Barcelona. There's just no way that route, over 1000 KM and through the Pyrenees, can be covered in less than 3 hours.

I HATE driving here. As civilized as the Europeans sometimes seem, they revert back to their feudal warlike ways once they get behind the wheel of a car. They are (with exceptions, but far too few of them) aggressive, reckless and indifferent to damage, either to themselves or to others. Plus, the traffic jams rival the last mile of Route 93 into Boston at rush hour on a Monday morning.

[MissHoneychurch]

101. Glad to hear you are OK

I think they will find out soon enough since they are at the crash site already.

Please stay safe!!!!!!

[DFW]

102. Thanks!

The crash site is a mess. I saw some aerial photos and a short video from a helicopter. The plane hit the side of a mountain at about 500 mph. The debris was scattered over a wide expanse of difficult Alpine terrain. It's not something I would ever want to work on, ugh!

[catbyte]

103. That's seriously scary, DFW. My husband & I were on the flight in Hawaii earlier in the day

before the top ripped off Aloha Airlines Flight 253 in 1988. It still creeps me out.

[DFW]

104. I remember that one all too well

Everyone except a flight attendant who wasn't buckled down survived, as I recall. I don't know if I'd ever have gotten back on a plane again after that one!

[bvar22]

111. Some amazing photos of that plane after it landed.

It was like it was a convertible, or had a BIG sunroof.
They should have charged those passengers more for the view and fresh air.

[Arugula Latte]

106. Wow, that is terrifying. Glad you weren't on it.

I had a close call like that in my life...I was scheduled to be crossing the Bay Bridge close to 5 pm on the night of October 17,1989. At the last moment, my friend and I had to change plans, so I avoided being on the bridge during the big quake.