HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » The DU Lounge (Forum) » My family thought for gen...

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:26 PM

My family thought for generations that we had a Cherokee ancestor.

We even new her name, Susie Redman. She was a family story and I grew up very proud that me ancestor was a Native American.

Long story short, my sister did a DNA test and we have zero Native American blood. She did some research and found that Susie, was from Germany. She couldn't find the origin of the family legend. Lmao, true story I just found out.

32 replies, 1369 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply My family thought for generations that we had a Cherokee ancestor. (Original post)
Lunabell Aug 2019 OP
DFW Aug 2019 #1
Lunabell Aug 2019 #2
DFW Aug 2019 #10
Nay Aug 2019 #15
Codeine Aug 2019 #18
Nay Aug 2019 #20
trueblue2007 Aug 2019 #23
Codeine Aug 2019 #24
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2019 #25
DFW Aug 2019 #30
SCantiGOP Aug 2019 #3
DFW Aug 2019 #11
Docreed2003 Aug 2019 #12
SCantiGOP Aug 2019 #14
Arkansas Granny Aug 2019 #4
WePurrsevere Aug 2019 #7
PandoraAwakened Aug 2019 #9
Niagara Aug 2019 #22
d_r Aug 2019 #29
Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2019 #19
WePurrsevere Aug 2019 #5
lark Aug 2019 #6
RobinA Aug 2019 #31
Farmer-Rick Aug 2019 #8
applegrove Aug 2019 #13
nolabear Aug 2019 #16
Kashkakat v.2.0 Aug 2019 #17
Kali Aug 2019 #21
Merlot Aug 2019 #27
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2019 #28
RobinA Aug 2019 #32
Brainstormy Aug 2019 #26

Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:32 PM

1. Better be careful with revelations like that

Republicans will start calling you Pocahontas.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:38 PM

2. Lmao

I was so disappointed. I would have been 1/16th Cherokee according to family legend.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:44 PM

10. I, on the other hand, can boast 2 distinguished grandfathers

One was descended from a deadbeat Mississippi riverboat gambler who fled noth to escape his debts, and the other was the son of a South Carolina tailor who worked his way through college as a janitor. Pocahontas ainít got nothiní on me!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 08:09 PM

15. Interesting! A similar story about our family says that the original ancestor

was on the run in Scotland, chased by the sheriff for horse thievery. He jumped onto the first boat out of Glasgow and it happened to be coming to the New World. This was in the mid-1600's.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 12:07 AM

18. Jesus, we have the same story in our family.

I wonder what book itís actually from.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Codeine (Reply #18)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 08:58 AM

20. Really! I wonder what book it IS from! The larger story is that my grandfather

was doing genealogy research in the hope that we were descended from a lord, earl, prince, etc., and it turned out we were a bunch of thieving bums brawling in the dirt. Hysterical!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Codeine (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 03:17 PM

23. WE supposedely have an Indian ancestor on moms side. My dad ALL Germans. (probably the BAD guys)

you know who i mean. Gees, I wish i had "the good guys" in my family tree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to trueblue2007 (Reply #23)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 03:39 PM

24. I think around the 1960s every family

suddenly had a Cherokee ancestor slip into the family history, right around the time a lot of families started to accidentally forget some of their ancestors from south of the Mason-Dixon Line.

Our family always claimed some Scots lineage with the name McDiarmid (something like that) popping up a bit, but when online ancestry searches became possible I learned that it was actually Madeiras, and that we had a chunk of Portuguese background that was, for whatever reason, embarrassing enough that it got hidden.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 04:39 PM

25. Ha, we have one from northern Ireland who was a rum-runner.

There was also a GGG grandfather, a Presbyterian minister in those parts, who was defrocked for officiating at a wedding between a Protestant and a Catholic. I was hoping to find more disreputable ancestors but so far that's about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #25)

Mon Aug 12, 2019, 11:11 PM

30. Sounds like a good reason to be neither Catholic nor Protestant! But hardly disreputable.

In New York, it's a good thing our daughter had a justice of the peace do a civil ceremony. She has a mother from a 600 year old German Catholic family, a father who is an Eastern European mongrel (me), a husband who is from a Russian Catholic family (born in Moscow), but grew up in Israel and is still a Catholic Israeli citizen in the USA with a green card. They both fortunately have no use whatsoever for religion, though they both are perfectly aware of their multi-cultural backgrounds.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:52 PM

3. As George Carlin observed

Americans are mongrels, but some of us were kicked out of some of the best countries in Europe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:49 PM

11. As Bill Murray observed.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:11 PM

12. Lol...+1!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to DFW (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 07:18 PM

14. Carlin also said that Canada

was like a nice apartment on the 2nd floor over a meth lab.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 04:52 PM

4. It was the same with my family. Supposedly 8 generations ago

someone married an Indian "princess". The DNA test my sister took proved that wrong. 0%

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:20 PM

7. While it's possible that it's a family myth, it's also possible that it isn't...

8 generations ago would have a very slim chance of showing up as is explained in the part of the article that I link to and quote below. The full article has embedded links that are also helpful.

http://www.rootsandrecombinantdna.com/2015/03/native-american-dna-is-just-not-that.html
Three Reasons Why Native American DNA Does NOT Show Up On Your Test Results ...

(1) Your "full-blood" Native American ancestor may have lived so far back in time that your NA ancestor's DNA has "washed out" by the time it reached your generation.
According to 23andMe, Native American DNA has been known to "wash out" in a few short generations (about 5), especially if none of your other progenitors introduced it along the way. Wash-outs usually occur during Random Genetic Recombination, when DNA gets randomly remixed as it passes from parent to child --- some of it (ethnic components/DNA sequences from our direct fore-parents) eventually gets lost over time. This is because each child inherits random DNA contributions from his/her 2 parents (50% each); 4 grandparents (25% each); 8 g-grandparents (12.5% each); 16 gg-grandparents (6.25% each); 32 ggg-grandparents (3.125%); 64 gggg-grandparents (1.56% each), etc. as the table here illustrates:


As you can see the farther your NA ancestor is removed from your generation, the more likely your average DNA contributions from this NA is to show up in low admixture percentages or none at all. For example, if one of your 32 ggg-grandparents was full-blood Native American, you stand to inherit up to 3.125% of that ggg-grandparent's DNA. Since the DNA you will inherit from your parentage is RANDOM and your ancestors will rarely be 100% of any one ethnicity, it is theoretically possible for you to inherit non-Native American DNA from this ancestor if other ethnic components are present and according to when this NA ancestor was introduced to the bloodline. For example Native Americans are known to have varying amounts of East Asian and Eurasian admixture due sharing ancestral populations with them. And after 15th century, Native Americans became admixed with Europeans and Africans.

NOW HERE'S THE TRICKY PART! You don't inherit your reshuffled DNA in fixed percentages as the chart above suggests. Rather you inherit your DNA sequences in chunks or segments of varying "lengths" (aka CentiMorgans) as shown in this illustration:


So starting with your grandparents, you will actually NOT get 25% DNA equally from each one. Instead the contributions per grandparent could be more like:

15% from grandparent #1
35% from grandparent #2
40% from grandparent #3
10% from grandparent #4

Now imagine if we apply my "genetic formula" to your grandparent #4, who in turn was descended from your hypothetical Native American ggg-grandparent mentioned earlier. Your grandparent #4 could have only inherited about 12.5%(+/-) NA DNA from his g-grandparent (full blood Native American) and it might be less than average amount.

Question: How much of the 10% DNA you inherited from your grandparent #4 will consist of the 12.5%(+/-) Native American DNA contribution that he received from his g-grandparent (= ggg-grandparent)?

At the 5th generation for YOU, chances are equally likely to be anywhere 0.00% to 3.125%(+/-) NA DNA depending on how much NA DNA grandparent #4 gave your parent, and if your parent passed any of it to you (see How Much Of Your Genome Do You Inherit From a Particular Grandparent). While you will definitely inherit DNA from your grandparent #4 (@ 10%), it may not include any DNA that can identified as Native American. In my own family I have a relative who did not receive any NA DNA from his parents, even though his father has a NA mtDNA haplogroup (B2) and whose DNA-tested close paternal relatives (aunt, uncle, cousins) scoring 2%(+/-) NA (inclusive of shared NA DNA segments). Instead my relative got 4% Southeast Asian (SEA). He just didn't get any of the NA DNA from his father, noting the SEA component in this branch of my family is related to Malagasy peoples (see Sergio Tofanelli, et al and Teresa Vega's blog) ancestry, and much stronger than the Native American. Go figure.

(Con't at link above)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WePurrsevere (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:35 PM

9. Best explanation I've seen of this phenomenon yet. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WePurrsevere (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 02:01 PM

22. Thank you for sharing this! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WePurrsevere (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 05:48 PM

29. Thanks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Arkansas Granny (Reply #4)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 01:52 AM

19. Probabilities from the International Society of Genetic Genealogy...

https://isogg.org/wiki/Cousin_statistics



These probabilities are in reference to autosomal DNA tests -- the ones from AncestryDNA, 23andMe, MyHeritageDNA and others that focus on the DNA that's inherited from both parents and all branches of the family tree.

There's also Y-DNA and mtDNA tests which can indicate relationships and ancestry along the all-paternal and al-maternal lines MUCH farther back in time. Those trees are always traced back to African roots, of course.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:05 PM

5. FWIW, it's possible to have NA ancestors and not have it show up.

While your sister may have found records showing that Susie was from Germany it's still possible that you do have NA ethnicity back in time and it's just not showing up.

Here's a great article that explains why this can happen with NA DNA:
http://www.rootsandrecombinantdna.com/2015/03/native-american-dna-is-just-not-that.html

For a decent explanation about ethnicity in general not being reliable this is a good one:
https://www.legalgenealogist.com/2019/01/27/and-still-not-soup/or

DNA for ethnicity, as a science, is not as accurate as it is for matching.

As an adoptee searching I'd tested at the big 2 plus uploaded my raw data to GEDmatch, MyHeritage and FTDNA. Now that I'm 'in reunion' with both sides I have a decent family tree started that's based on records (plus DNA) so I can tell you from experience ethnicity definitely can vary quite a bit between testing sites.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:09 PM

6. Well damn.

I really hate the idea of these DNA tests, don't trust the government or industry to not abuse them. However, now for the first time ever I wonder if I should? I'm pretty sure my Cherokee ancestor is real and my great great grandmother. Her husband was a french trapper who got injured and was nursed to health by a Cherokee tribe and mainly my great great grandmother. It's insufficient Indian blood to mean anything, but I love the story and it still means something to me. I don't know how accurate these tests are and I know I'm mostly a mix of lots of various European blood, but definitely more English than anything else with German, French, Spanish, Irish & Swedish verified as well. Still don't trust the government or industry not to somehow abuse these tests so will just stick with the story about my grandfather's origins for now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 01:09 PM

31. YYMV, Of Course

but my 23 and Me DNA test was extremely accurate. We know our genealogy back to the various old countries from which all but one branch emerged in the late 1600s through the mid 1700s. We know what towns they are from and the test really hit the nail on the head. Now, we are strictly northern Europe and UK, which is probably the biggest share of their database, so we hit their accuracy sweet spot, but still they did a damn good job. It is possible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 05:32 PM

8. There are so many other possible explanations for why that corporation

Did not find their version of what they consider American Indian DNA in your sister's blood test that I would not trust it. If you have pictures (as my family does) or other evidence of American Indian ancestry, I would trust that over a DNA test.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 06:28 PM

13. I've researched family stories. I've proved one wrong while another has been

proved to a certain extent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 09:07 PM

16. I had a similar result but given the odd NA DNA issues

and the fact that we have exactly one ancestor we canít trace, the father of the purported Choctaw g-g-grandmother I still hold on. That and the fact my grandmother, great aunts and grandmother knew her well and she wasnít some legend.

Who knows...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Fri Aug 9, 2019, 09:52 PM

17. What I want to know is - why does everyone claim Cherokee ancestry, wny not some other tribe like

Modoc or Potawotomi? Kinda reminds me of people I used to know who claimed to have past lives - it was always something like ancient Egyptian priestess or queen of Atlantis, never anything like a peasant on a farm in China or a somalian Pirate or .... oh there was this job in 18th century England going around and collecting the contents of chamber pots. How come no one was one of those in their past life?

Anyway Im glad you see the humor in your humorous story - actually its a better story than if Susie Redman (red man, seriously?) had been a real Cherokee!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kashkakat v.2.0 (Reply #17)

Sat Aug 10, 2019, 06:44 PM

21. ...

always Cherokee

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kashkakat v.2.0 (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 04:46 PM

27. That's what I thought too

"Susie Redman (red man, seriously?)"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kashkakat v.2.0 (Reply #17)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 04:54 PM

28. That's crucial.

You'd think that if there really were real Native American ancestors, the various different tribes would all be named more or less equally.

As for past life stuff, people who have actually done past life regressions always come up with things like being a peasant somewhere. The royalty/famous person/life in Atlantis is invariably among people who've never done an actual regression.

Plus, of course, Atlantis is pure myth, and too many people really don't get that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kashkakat v.2.0 (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 13, 2019, 01:17 PM

32. I Always Wondered This

myself. My cousins had an Indian grandmother and she was Choctaw. I saw her because she lived with them, she was clearly native. I didn't know she was Choctaw until I did some Ancestry research. Is it just the eastern US people that claim the Cherokee relative? Maybe it's the only Indian tribe they know lived in the area. The Choctaw lady in my family came from Arkansas and she met my relative when he was stationed down there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Lunabell (Original post)

Sun Aug 11, 2019, 04:43 PM

26. EXACT SAME THING

happened in my family. My ex-husband had always said his great grandmother was full-blood Cherokee. Well, not a drop of Native American blood in anybody. But a good bit of mid-eastern and Northern Africa. I'm loving it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread